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Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

topic posted Thu, March 20, 2008 - 5:12 PM by  deb
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Okay, sooo,.... I really don't know how to interpret the "less personal" planet aspects to Chrion, such as Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto, in synastry or compostie charts. I know that Chiron is supposed to represent the "wounding/healing" process and it doesn't seem terribly hard to understand its working in aspect to the "personal" planets; sun, moon, Mecury, Venus, and Mars. How would one interpret a mutual trine between Saturn and Chrion? I have this aspect with someone very significant in my life. It is also trine in the composite chart, obviously, as the aspects in the synastry trine are very tight in orb.

I couldn't find ANYTHING on the web to interpret its significance or function in a relationship. I also have no books on the subject of Chiron contacts to Saturn. My "best guess" is that the two of us will be "bound together in a mutual healing process of wounds that we share."

Does anyone have some good insight or information on Chiron aspects to the "non-personal" planets? I thought this might be a good topic of discussion for those who have a similar aspect in their own significant relationship.
posted by:
deb
offline deb
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    Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

    Fri, March 21, 2008 - 1:54 AM
    I can't imagine a close Chiron-Saturn link to be especially comforable to begin with. The Chiron partner my feel rejected by the cold, critical face of the Saurn partner, whilst the Saturn partner may feel his or her defences puctured by the Chiron partner's ability to get under their skin. Maybe, though, that is reiterating what you are sayin Deb, in so many ways.

    You would probably have to look at the aspects these bodies have in each case. Possibly, too, it may remain true tha the key to the working-out of any problems may lie wih the Saturn indvidual, who may often hold te cards viz a viz control of the relaionship.
    • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

      Fri, March 21, 2008 - 11:36 AM
      Nexus... I have met someone whose saturn exactly quincux my chiron.... and I think you described the dynamics perfectly.
      The guy is actually a very warm and a very meek person but the way he reacts to me is cold. I don't know if it's because he finds me very freedom-loving and critical and so he doesn't know how to really express his gentle side on me.

      I probably do get under his skin.. he stopped communicating with me so I think I'm just too much for him.

      Anyways, hard aspects between chiron and saturn must be a very challenging one to deal with in romantic relationships or any type which requires warmth and comfy feeling.
      • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

        Fri, March 21, 2008 - 2:45 PM
        Maybe the mutual Saturn trine Chiron is a "double barrelled torpedo" that eventually "sunk my battleship!" I find that as time passes, no matter how much I feel for this person, (which is shown in many other favorable aspects between us), all I can do is put up a guard whenever I'm around them. My response is literally opposite my true feelings! Perhaps it is simply a "doomed" relationship from the get-go.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

          Fri, March 21, 2008 - 3:46 PM
          I, also have that chiron trine saturn natally!

          I guard my sensitive spots well - even those of others at times.
          As open as I might seem about some things - I choose carefully what to express and what to hide.

          But I think that this aspect might make both of us strive to heal others ... almost like a commitment or sense of duty all its own LOL!
          It has it's up-side.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

          Wed, April 9, 2008 - 7:50 PM
          what you are all describing is exactly how i felt with that 'cold' capricorn with the sag rising and moon that i couldn't figure out....
          he was lovely and sweet and funny and seemingly warm...but then so cold and restricting and i definitly felt like i was being perceived as the opposite of myself....which elicited strong seemingly out of nowhere emotional reactions from me
          this chiron/saturn stuff you're describing must have been similar to the planetary mix we had....
          made me feel like shit tho.
          but i got over it real quick, like ya do
  • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

    Fri, March 21, 2008 - 3:29 PM
    I dated someone who had his Saturn conjunct my Chiron...and it was very uncomfy and ultimately did not last ...we had mutual SN connections too though so that was prob part of it. Not very pleasent but necessarily..he was poking my chiron with a stick so it was trying to get me to start healing that part of me that was wounded...for me chiron is in aries so I have a problem with self expression...esp in relationships so with him I was called on to be more self adssertive..and in that relationship I was not successful. But that relationship was the catalyst....

    One thing I saw said of the Saturn Chiron connection in synastry .."when the student (chiron) is ready, the teacher will appear (Saturn)" That was DEFINITELY true for me...
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

      Fri, March 21, 2008 - 3:43 PM
      Sometimes I think of a relationship that ends ultimately but teaches me something or helps me to heal as "successful"

      • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

        Fri, March 21, 2008 - 5:24 PM
        Today I broke down crying at work again,... I work with this person. The block to my emotions was just overwhelming when I saw them.

        My Chiron is in the 1st house conjunct Jupiter retrograde in Pisces. Saturn is in Aquarius, and retrograde in the 1st house.
        Their Saturn is in Scorpio in their 3rd house, (in my 9th, conj my natal Venus/Neptune conjunction) Their Chiron is in Gemini in their 9th, (in my 4th).

        My first response to them was that I had "no boundaries," and "no defenses." I felt completely helpless, but wanted desperately to trust them with my heart because that is where I felt that we really connected. But my communication with them was always awkward and backward. As a result, I became more and more shy around them, even exiting the room whenever I saw them due to an overwhelming insecurity that was intense and "out of nowhere." This began in June of last year, and has culminated to the present conclusion,...

        Communication and emotional blockages, extraordinaire!

        Communication breakdown. Hopeless for recovery,...

        I actually feel like I "lost all hope" of ever being able to speak with them again today. I'm totally lost for words, or hope of finding my way.
        I felt like I wanted to "die,"because I felt like I'll never get past this "lesson," never figure out how to connect. I guess I've lost my way for building connections with people that are truly "close" and "intimate." It is easy to speak to "nameless" and "faceless" people who don't affect me directly. But building bridges with those I come in contact,... I don't know.
        Perhaps I'm "broken beyond repair,... " at least that is how I feel right now; hopeless, pathetic, and ashamed because I should be "wise" by now. I've lost all confidence in myself and my abilities in general. I even started browsing the want ads for new employment, but due to my overwhelming feelings of incompetence I gave up the search, feeling like i would only fail at that too.

        In transit, Venus and Mercury are conjunct natal Chiron and opposing natal Pluto. I pray this transit passes quickly! Thank God it is a weekend. I can cry it out and wake up to a new day, and hopefully I'll feel differently. The moon is also just passing over my natal sun, in opposition to the transiting sun, (moon in the 8th, sun in the 2nd).

        I'm so ready for something to make sense in my personal life!




        • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

          Fri, March 21, 2008 - 5:59 PM
          P.S. I've just weathered transiting Pluto squaring my natal sun in the 8th house,.... I'm emotionally exhausted! So this transit really isn't "just what the doctor ordered,..." as far as I'm concerned. I'm wondering when will it all end. What should I do to "put on the brave face" in the meantime. Perhaps, calling it "mean" time is no mysnomer. It really is MEAN time!

          Well, anyway,... in the "meantime," I'm listening to Coldplay and just letting the feelings flow for now, and welcoming the soothing to my shredded soul.
          • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

            Fri, March 21, 2008 - 6:36 PM
            ((((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGSSSSS)))))))))))))))))))))))))))) Deb!

            Once in the past, I was in a situation sort of like that. The only way I could deal with it is to convince myself that hey, maybe THEY aren't even good enough for me. Maybe I'm viewing them through rose-colored glasses? After all, they fart just like I do. When I mentally brought them down to a level even with myself, I didn't feel so awkward anymore. Funny thing was, when I acted as if they weren't anyone special, it kind of drew them to me. Strange, eh? But by then, too many of their flaws were revealed to me, and I knew in my heart they would not be the best partner.

            Hope tomorrow is a better day for you, Deb!
          • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

            Fri, April 4, 2008 - 7:36 PM
            "Today I broke down crying at work again,... I work with this person. The block to my emotions was just overwhelming when I saw them."

            Hey Deb,


            Okay I know I'm really late entering here (and like the Mercury in Aries person I am I haven't read the entire thing yet) but lets just say I know how you feel. I'm going through the Pluto Square thing right now, even though it does help that it's conjunct my Neptune....I think....well yes and no. Yes, because it's more soothing, no because Neptune rules my 7th house and I think Pluto there is the reason I have a Chiron conjunct Sun relationship right now, and have since September.

            Well I'm not sure how yours is going or will turn out, considering Saturn, but to me it seems that if you can get past the wounding there is potential for powerful healing.

            Right now I'm in love with someone and our composite chart has Chiron conjunct Sun and Venus in Pisces in the 6th house ( people.tribe.net/98304509-...4e8fab4d31 ). I've been reading a lot about Chiron since getting his correct birth date info a few weeks ago (but I'm not sure of his birth time and therefore neither the 6th house thing yet).

            Our synastry creates many other factors including mutual Pluto-Moon sextiles and Neptune-moon conjunctions, His Venus conjunct my Mars and Venus, His N.Node on my Dsc., etc. but I think the Chiron-Sun-Venus conjunction Pisces/6th house says a lot about that separate being we have: the relationship.

            Liz Grene says a Chiron conjunct Sun relationship can mean an age gap, restrictions of some kind, an interracial relationship, or where one person has a handicap. We have all four but the later (him) isn't that serious. We have been restricted from being with each other, truly, for seven months now.

            Ever see a grown man in pain? Well I've been in pain for months now as well. I can truly say I know the real definition of longing. We have had conversations when we were near breaking down in tears and insanity. I've cried about it but what can you do but WAIT? At this point I think we would have serious issues not committing suicide if anything happens to either of us before consumation of our love.

            So as you can see so far there's just been a lot of pain. I'm still waiting for the healing....I realize though that it will probably be amazing when we do get together. No matter what kind of "pain" we may face from others' reaction to our differences it won't be like what we've faced so far. And the everyday "healing" of each other that will be necessary as a response or result of any pain from these reactions give us an intimacy and closeness that can't be surpassed.

            Hopefully this is what will happen with you. Saturn can be a great teacher and this man may help teach you about deep parts of yourself you find yourself painfully brushing aside (or brushing aside before any substantial irking of feeling can even begin to form into something as whole as pain) whenever thoughts of them or memories related to these parts or feelings come up. Maybe this person will help relieve some of the insecurities you talked about in this post.

            Whatever you do, don't be afraid of whatever is going on here. It's only by plunging into the fire that clay becomes art.


            Here are some thoughts on Chiron by Liz Green from Astro.com. I know they are not specifically relative to your situation but maybe you can draw something from them. However, you may have read this before...:


            If the composite chart has a Sun-Saturn square or a Sun-Chiron conjunction, it contains built-in limits, often of a very concrete kind. These limits may prove to be creative and positive for either or both individuals. But they feel as though they have been imposed on us. A Sun-Saturn square or a Sun-Chiron conjunction in the natal chart also contains built-in limits, but we experience them differently.
            Let's take composite Sun-Chiron aspects. I have seen these many times when a relationship involves the unavoidable inclusion of limits from the past. The past may be an ex-partner who wants big maintenance payments, or it may be children from a former marriage. These situations can cause a lot of pain, especially where children are involved, because no matter how mature and conscious the two people are, there will be conflicts, divided loyalties, hurt feelings, and perhaps also financial restrictions. It is not a question of altering attitudes; a priori families, for any couple, are a built-in fact which will always impose limits. If a couple do not experience limits in such circumstances, then we probably won't see Sun-Chiron in the composite chart.

            We know that Chiron is connected with experiences of wounding, particularly those which seem unfair and unmerited, and which are a product of the state of the collective at the time rather than some particular person's fault or act of malice. Sun-Chiron contacts in a composite suggest that the relationship itself carries an unhealable wound, usually from the past of both parties, or from the nature of the world in which the two people are living. At the same time, the relationship may provide deep healing for both people, or for others who come in contact with the couple, because the inherent limits invoke suffering and consequent understanding and compassion.

            I have sometimes seen Sun-Chiron in a composite when two people want very badly to have children but are unable to do so. This is a wound which can make people think much more deeply about who they are and what purpose their lives serve, because they do not have the collectively sanctioned "purpose" of a family to give them a direction in life. Another example might be a partnership where there is a great age difference, and the younger partner must watch the other grow old and frail. No amount of love and commitment can turn the clock back. Or there might be a physical handicap in one partner which may be genuinely and deeply accepted, but which limits the mobility of both people. Yet another example might be a racially mixed marriage, or a homosexual relationship, both of which may provoke animosity among neighbours who are xenophobic or too rigid in their definitions of normality. Xenophobia and rigid opinions are characteristic of many, many people, and no amount of agonising or raging will alter this unfortunate flaw in human nature. Both people may be hurt through the relationship, not because it is "bad", but because there is something about the way the relationship "sits" in the collective which limits its possibilities.

            I am not saying that it is a static picture. As far as healing is concerned, it depends on what you mean by the word. Chiron's wounds do not heal in the sense of going away. Something has been permanently twisted out of shape, even if the poison has been released and cleansed. One cannot regain innocence once it has been destroyed by the kind of wounding this planet reflects. But one's attitude toward the wound can change, and greater tolerance, compassion, and wisdom can result. That is a kind of healing; but it cannot undo the past. One cannot, for example, make one's children by a former partner vanish in a puff of smoke. One can try to numb the wound by cutting off from the children emotionally, and never seeing them again; and then there is another sort of wound that must be dealt with. Or one can work very hard to face all the emotional complications, and eventually establish rewarding relationships with everyone concerned. But there will always be compromise and sadness and a sense of loss. Such aspects in the composite chart do not mean that the effects of the difficulty remain static and unchanging. Both people may be deeply and permanently transformed. But the past cannot be remade.
            • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

              Sat, April 5, 2008 - 10:43 AM
              Hey, thanks, UIP! I'm really touched by your situation. It sounds like you've really got a deep, mutual bond with this person. I hope the best for you both! Chiron is still a big "mystery" for me, even though I am learning more about it as a result of all of the terrific and insightful posts given in this thread.

              The reason why I think Chiron remains a "mystery" to me, inspite of reading more about it, is because its function in our life is "mysterious" by nature. Perhaps the "mysterious" element is the way that Chrion brings about the healing in our lives. There is a magnetic quality to Chiron aspects in synastry, drawing "unlikely candidates" into our lives whom we may not really consciously think we "should be" attracted to. And yet, here they are, affecting us in the deepest, most sensitive parts of our being profoundly! However, I'm still on the fence as to whether I would say that relationships involving Chiron are "fated" or "destined" in nature, inspite of this magnetic quality. Healing itself is "mysterious," as it comes from the "etheral, spiritual" plane, and so Chiron contacts between others truly are an"other-dimensional" and mystical experience!

              I guess my take so far on Chiron aspects in synastry and the composite would be that when they appear, just open up and recieve whatever comes from it. They represent some very powerful forces at work, and are definitely significant!

              RE: the article you posted:

              Liz Greene said in the article you posted that the wounds that Chiron reveals are "unhealable." ???? Interesting,... I'm not sure what to make of that. She says that they are a result of our past, which is "unremakeable." And yet goes on to say that there can be healing as a result of Chiron contacts,... Hmmm,... If she means that the "cause of the wounds is unalterable, but we can still be healed in the area that the past has wounded us," then I think I understand. Perhaps another take on the "unhealable wounds" is that she is saying that the "circumstances that cause the wounding in the relationship are a result of our past, and these circumstances created in the past, ie,.. children from a past relationship, remain,. Thus the wounding continues, and so we are unable to heal from it." Her wording is ambiguous in places, but the article was still worth reading and did give some insight into the symbolism of Chiron aspecting the sun in a composite chart.

              In your case, UIP, I can tell that you have a tremendous amount of love and compassion for this person you mentioned. The bible says that "love covers a multitude of sins,..." Perhaps this passage is referring to Chiron contacts! LOL!

              Peace, Love, and Joy to you, UIP!

              Deb
  • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

    Fri, March 21, 2008 - 9:44 PM
    I'd like to quote from my book on Chiron in Synastry:

    "When I first began to compare charts, looking for aspects from one person’s Chiron to the chart of the other individual, I expected to find this only occasionally. I also expected that, when I did find it, the relationship would have something extreme or unique about it---something to set it far apart from other relationships. Well research has proven me very wrong on the first count---and almost as far off on the second.
    I have been amazed at how common Chiron aspects appear in Synastry. In fact it seems to appear more often than not. I have a theory about why but will go into that later.

    "As for the nature of such [Chiron-marked] relationships---they usually seem to have no initial differences from other relationships, at least superficially. However, when you look deeper you begin to see that there is a difference, and the difference is in how open the people are to each other. Let us look at a few different aspects in order to make this clearer.

    "CONJUNCTION

    "If you have your natal Chiron in conjunction to a planet in another’s chart, there is automatically some type of attraction, usually mutual. And the area of attraction fits the nature of the other planet. The attraction is not of sexual nature, unless the other planet is something like Mars or Venus. Rather, it is the attraction toward someone who seems to be travelling along the same path---a kindred spirit in some fashion. And, [here is a crucial point], what happens next depends a great deal upon the type of relationship, but even more, on the person’s self-image. IF each individual is fairly well-balanced, an excellent relationship can develop here with a feeling of being true equals in whatever area the planet represents. This is truly a good thing in romance, as you can imagine. It can be very positive in teacher/pupil and parent/child relationships because both feel free to learn from the other. BUT, if one of the individuals feels severely lacking in this area, or in need of help, that person turns to the other as a teacher, or guide, and seeks the other’s ‘superior wisdom.’ As you can imagine, this would be of benefit in counseling, or parent/ child---but can be a possible hazard in such relationships as marriage. Given enough time the Chiron aspect tends to equalize differences, and so the two people have a chance to grow eventually to feel equal here. But, until then, it is possible to build up resentment against the very person from whom you are seeking help.

    "No matter which type of relationship this is, one thing seems especially to be true---the planet that is aspecting Chiron from one chart to the other seems unable to keep up defenses to keep the Chiron person out. It is as if, for the Chiron person, the walls around the other come tumbling down---or at least the Chiron person has little trouble getting inside the walls the other person has built around self. And depending on how thick those wails were initially, and how dependent the person was on the security provided by the walls---such openness can be felt as truly fantastic, or extremely frightening. Especially since the person being aspected by the other’s Chiron cannot develop any other way to erect wails around his/her planet.

    "SQUARE

    "Here we have something similar to the conjunction, but with a twist. There seems to be an attraction, yet a repulsion at the same time. This mixed feeling seems to be much stronger in the Chiron person than in the other individual. The Chiron person also seems to have the initial effect of getting past the other’s defenses---but frequently causes resentment in so doing. The person being aspected by another’s Chiron becomes capable of developing new defenses to keep the Chiron person out---but then the Chiron person becomes able to get through these new defenses, as well. Therefore, if the people are insecure, this aspect turns their relationship into a battlefield. Yet even so, both people grow because of it. Positively an awareness dawns about what is going on---and the two develop a relationship with great growth potential. They perceive the process of throwing up new walls as attempts to focus on insecurities. They do not feel threatened by them, but see them as a way of clearing out the rubbish. The result---mutual growth and increasing closeness.

    "OPPOSITION

    "Between any two planets, an opposition is an exchange. It can become a war, or a partnership. When Chiron in one person’s chart opposes a planet in the chart of another person, the word ‘exchange’ takes on a very specific meaning: each person tends to take on qualities of the other. For example, let us say that one person’s Chiron opposes the other person’s Mars. The Chiron person will become more aggressive, more active, and tend to be somewhat physically attracted to the other person. The Mars person will become more individual, more of a Maverick, and more willing to open up and try new things. This can be a very positive thing, especially if each needs to grow in the area ruled by the opposing planet. If the Mars person needs to get out of ruts, or the Chiron person needs more self-assertion, the relationship can be really fantastic. However, if a person is afraid of the qualities s/he gets from the other---or is already active enough in those areas, the relationship can become extremely uncomfortable for one or both parties.

    "OTHER ASPECTS

    "Trines and sextiles from Chiron in one chart to planets in another chart also denote some of the same attraction, but the intensity is much less than with the hard aspects. There is also somewhat of a lowering of the defenses, but also not to such a drastic extent. These are good aspects to have between charts if there are other positive aspects, but alone they are not dramatically significant."

    -------------
    Here is another perspective on Chiron in Synastry that I have found of value.

    An astrologer named Dawn writes:
    "The way Chiron seems to work in synastry is that the Chiron person will feel any kind of 'wounding' the other person feels in regards to the planet involved. Chiron is extremely empathetic that way. With Venus, the issues will be self-worth, values, etc. How much Chiron gets 'fired up' will depend on the individual Venus involved. The more 'difficult' the individual Venus aspects, the more intense the Chiron reaction. Chiron just wants to give, and Chiron's own wound is inflamed when the gift is rejected. With Venus/Chiron, there may be a question of a conflict in values and/or desires. What I want for you is not what you want. Or the Chiron person, in the intense desire to heal the other's wounds, will actually make the Venus person feel more wound and less self-worth. The opposition has conflict inherent in it, but also the means to resolve that conflict, so it is not so difficult as the square. Given the fact that you both have the inter-aspect, you are both working to heal one another's Venus issues, and if you are aware of this it will breed less strife."

    --------------
    The latest edition of Solar Fire includes Chiron aspects in its Synastry reports. For example, my ex-wife and I had a rather significant Chiron synastry aspect, and here is Solar Fire's take on it:
    Alice's Mercury Square Zane's Chiron
    Orb 2°04' Applying
    This is a difficult combination of the planet Mercury and the asteroid Chiron. Alice and Zane have difficulty communicating in a manner that is rewarding. Instead they seem to hurt each other's feelings through saying the wrong thing. In particular Zane seems to upset Alice. The problem is that old hurtful memories surface in this relationship. Alice and Zane have subconsciously attracted each other in order to learn valuable life lessons, but the journey is not smooth. Alice is particularly sensitive to the words used by Zane, and has difficulty listening with emotional calm. Alice may accuse Zane of being insensitive and uncaring; however, Zane feels wrongfully accused. He genuinely struggles to find a better way of communicating what he means. These misunderstandings could lead to a breakdown in the relationship, or they could finally result in a better understanding of themselves and each other. Either way compassion is a key ingredient to successfully overcoming past hurts and developing loving communication.

    We had lots of aspects between our charts, positive and otherwise, but the above describes our relationship better than almost anything.

    Here is what the report says of a soft aspect (trine, sextile) between one person's Saturn and the other's Chiron (the program plugs in the names of the people in place of %1 and %2:
    When %1 and %2 first meet, they experience a deep-seated feeling that they have met before. There is a sense in which both know that they are meeting in order to help each other learn more about their life's journey. Perhaps they have met in order to settle past scores or so that they can each leave behind painful relationship memories and build a new and more meaningful union. Although a certain feeling of discomfort can underlay this relationship, on the whole it is a positive one in which both %1 and %2 steadily grow more emotional secure. They are able to build firm foundations in this relationship, which augurs well for other areas of their lives.






    • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

      Sat, March 22, 2008 - 5:31 AM
      But what happens when Chiron conjuncts the other person's Chiron, as in my case?
      • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

        Sat, March 22, 2008 - 7:23 PM
        Chiron conjunct Chiron usually means the two people are from the same age group. In of itself, it is not significant.
        • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

          Sun, March 23, 2008 - 2:59 AM
          "Chiron conjunct Chiron usually means the two people are from the same age group. In of itself, it is not significant."

          See, this is where I don't understand astrology. It makes me feel like all these people in the world born in the same age group (and lots of us marry people around our same age) are all tagged with the same issues of Chiron's wounds and whatever healing is needed. But if you take a class of high school grads (who, by your definition would have Chiron in the same area), even with drawing aspects between Chiron and their other planets in their chart, there should be some similarities. And if "wounding" and "healing" are very important in a life path, that's a lot of people with similar issues in that category. For me, this is different than let's say......2 Gemini's getting together (similar Sun Signs). Because there isn't anything specific in the Gemini makeup (like "wounding" or "healing"). There are just general traits, heavily influenced by the rest of the chart.

          I'm not sure I'm making sense in my point. lol
          It's similar to most people around the same age having Pluto in one specific area of their chart. But to me, conjunctions have an effect regardless of the commonality of same age groups.
          • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

            Sun, March 23, 2008 - 8:40 AM
            Cat's Meow, what about the houses that your Chirons are in? Can you find any thing there? Are there no other aspects with the inner planets in synastry? It is up to the faster moving personal planets to aspect the generational planets...

            Not that I have any choices here ; ) but I much prefer the rather stationary aspects of the outer planets. I like that when I see a chart, I can see a Pluto in Virgo, and identify that person as a peer maybe even a member of my team . The generational planets hold meaning for what is to be addressed in that generation.

            My bithday and my boyfriends birthdays are only 3 month apart. Our Pisces Chirons are in close aspect to one another, what gets interesting is this: my 7th house Venus is conj Chiron, so his Chiron is aspecting my Venus.

            I can really relate to what Zane has posted regarding this aspect. We have been discussing setting up household together; one of my concerns is the level of housekeeping that I desire is not in line with his. ( I actually refered to this as 'values' in our discussion). I feel disrespected when others do not pick up behind themselves, as though I am a maid, to come pick up after them. (self worth). I have a sense that he is incapable of grasping how important this is to me, because it is not part of his value set.
          • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

            Tue, March 25, 2008 - 3:53 PM
            Catmeow wrote:
            "See, this is where I don't understand astrology. It makes me feel like all these people in the world born in the same age group (and lots of us marry people around our same age) are all tagged with the same issues of Chiron's wounds and whatever healing is needed. But if you take a class of high school grads (who, by your definition would have Chiron in the same area), even with drawing aspects between Chiron and their other planets in their chart, there should be some similarities. And if "wounding" and "healing" are very important in a life path, that's a lot of people with similar issues in that category."

            Chiron's sign is something that many people share. The number of people varies depending on the sign, of course, because with Chiron's elliptical orbit, it stays many more years in some signs (the most in Aries) than in others (the least in Libra). But even in the signs where it moves the quickest, you are going to have millions of people born with the same Chiron sign. (Currently there are over 130 million people born in a single year. That's a lot of people sharing Chiron in Aquarius this year.)

            They all have something similar to a generational Chiron in Aquarius influence, although only in signs around apheliion (signs near Aries) will there be as long a period as Uranus of 8 years per sign.

            Still, think of Uranus. By sign, it influences a generation. And to use your example, most years, the entire graduating class will have the same Uranus sign, but they are not going to be carbon copies of each other. There will be things you CAN say about the group as a whole, but within the group, each individual will respond to the generational influence in their own way. Some will fit a stereotypical description, some will rebel against the influence, etc. What you do of course is to see the house that Uranus is in, the aspects it makes to individual planets and house cusps in the chart, as well as any midpoints it is involved in. And further, if Uranus progresses to R or Direct after birth, that adds additional personalization.

            Same thing with Chiron. There is a Chiron in Aquarius vibe, of course. Two people with Chiron in Aquarius have that generational vibe. But how they react to it, their unique wounds, comes from the house it is in, the aspects it makes, the midpoints it is connected to. And of course, it too can change direction at birth.

        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

          Sun, March 23, 2008 - 9:01 AM
          I don't know ...

          *There are the different houses the chiron conjunct chiron fall in in each chart synastrically
          *The house the composite chiron falls in
          *The aspects the chiron conjunct chiron make in each chart synastrically

          I share the same uranus = neptune/pluto with a large part of my generation but I don't think it works out just exactly the same way for me as everyone else but maybe that is just vanity haha?
          • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

            Sun, March 23, 2008 - 9:37 AM
            I can't find any. I looked at all 3 relationships Ive had that hold weight to me.
            Non have any Chiron aspect to any except one. Loose conj to my rx Saturn conj IC,
            I do feel as though there was for a time with this person a healing of the internal insecurity Saturn represents.
    • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

      Sat, March 22, 2008 - 7:25 PM
      Thank you so much, Zane for posting this information about Chrion contacts! I really needed a message of "hope" for my situation. I already suspected that the "wound" that Chiron was addressing is my own "hidden insecurities." They were fairly "manageable" when I was able to keep them to myself. Having this person be able to see me, "flaws and all" and still be able to stand there and accept me without wincing, blinking, or frown in dissappointment was actually overwhelming. It touched me so deeply, but no one has ever touched my heart like that. I was terrified because my first thought was from my own insecurity, "Oh, God! If someone can casually stroll into my heart without effort,... then they will probably never ever truly value me and casually stroll out again without a second thought, leaving me devastated when they go!"

      I hope that this doesn't happen. I'm sure that is why I've been distancing myself. I'm afraid of losing them, but don't even know how to show that I appreciate them properly so they won't go. In essence, I've been pushing them away and creating a situation for a "self-fulfilling prophecy." I'm not accustomed to depending on someone's love. I don't do "vulnerable" well. But in this case, I don't have a choice. I'll give myself a chance and start viewing myself as "worthy of love" so that I'll be able to stand in this person's presence without running anymore. They are a gift to me and I to them. I should just let it be and thank God for helping me open up.

      Thank you all for your responses. That was so sweet of you to take the time to share your experiences with me. It really has helped me to view myself in a more compassionate way. I really was blind to how hard I've been on myself. I guess I've entered the land of the living.
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

        Sat, March 22, 2008 - 11:40 PM
        Here is my thought, Deb.
        I don't know if it will help you as much as it encouraged me or not.


        I think that one way to express natal chiron trine saturn is a sort of freezing and isolating effect.

        Another way it manifests is in that duty/responsibility sensed to heal others.

        I bet that making a practice out of healing those around us might also have an "un-freezing" effect as the saturn-trine-chiron energy is channeled in a warmer and more open way.

        Along with that goes allowing others to wound us. That part is hard to even write for me.
        I have to start believing that not all wounds are fatal, maybe ....
        *BUT*
        With chiron opposing vertex - maybe they are fatal for me! ... in which case I must conquer fear of fatal wounds from others knowing that new life can come from the ashes ... that is a lot easier to type than to do ...

        I'm going to try it - well I will start with the first part anyway ... :-P
        • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

          Sun, March 23, 2008 - 11:39 AM
          P, my natal Saturn is conjunct my south node in Aquarius in the 1st house, and doesn't aspect natal Chiron except by a semi-sextile. Natal Chiron is conjunct natal Jupiter retrograde in Pisces in the 1st house. Natal Chiron is also exactly quincunx to the north node in Leo in the 7th house, and opposite natal Pluto in the 7th house in Virgo, with Pluto closely conjuncting the 8th house cusp by 2 degrees.

          My natal Saturn is trine their natal Chiron in synastry by 2 degrees of exact. Our natal Chirons are square to each other by 1 degree. Their Chiron falls in my 4th house, also square to my Pluto. I guess that their Chiron making this aspect in my 4th house speaks of the "soul connection" that I feel with them. This is probably why I felt so "defenseless" to their access to my deepest, most private places. There are plenty of "wounds" lurking in there! At the core, I'm very sensitive and vulnerable. But I'm sure this is true of everyone. I'm also sure this is why trust issues are the most important to me in relating to them, and still react by attempting to throw up walls whenever they are around. However, this defense mechanism has been ineffective with them.

          The more I look at my own Chrion aspects the clearer the picture gets regarding my current experience of "wounds uncovered" and the necessary healing I need to undergo to become a more effective, confident, secure, positive, and compassionate person in my own life. (Natal Chiron in the 1st, conj Jupiter retrograde in Pisces). Finding a clear purpose and direction is also highlighted by the synastric aspect of the trine from their Chiron to my retrograde Saturn in the 1st. And finding a way to be more inclusive and "present" in group environments, and in personal interaction is also highlighted by the synastric aspect activating the nodal axis in the 1st, (south node in Aquarius/north node in the 7th in Leo).

          This is the best I can come up with. My heart is now open, I just need to work on creating and becoming more "welcoming," (north node in Leo). to others in a physically closer and more intimate way. The walls need to come down if I'm going to evolve to express the north node effectively in my life and relationships. Otherwise, people will forever see only my south node conjunct Saturn retrograde in Aquarius in the 1st house, and I'll only be "friendly, but inaccessible," as far as people's opinion of me. My "first impression" will be my "only impression."

          • Unsu...
             

            Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

            Sun, March 23, 2008 - 12:06 PM
            AH

            Then maybe those ideas apply only with this person then tehe (instead of in-general like I am going to try)

            What you say about being "present" in group environments really sounds familiar to me, too.
            As do the trust issues.
            I live with these every day with everyone - you could probably imagine how that goes now with this synastry experience hehe!
            I really hope the focus on healing/teaching others in a dutiful and committed way can help avoid the whole lock-down thing. Maybe even help those "wounds kill" things from destroying me ... helping me be reborn instead?

            I gotta figure out something, though haha!
            It isn't just a passing relationship or particular synastry connection in my case. It is every-day life.


            It sounds like you have some pretty good ideas of your own, here.

            Interesting, though (now that I look in on your chart)
            you have natal saturn opposite Nnode
            and natal chiron quincunx Nnode

            I have natal saturn conjunct Nnode
            and natal chiron trine saturn (Nnode by association maybe)

            Interesting :-)

            I don't know ... maybe in general it might be better for me to stay guarded or prepare for killing wounds and be ready for the transformation
            but maybe for you it is totally different ... similar issues but less emphasis on the guarding and more on the openness?
            Maybe, like you say, this person is highlighting something or revealing a wound?

            I'd say that if it your relationship with this person follows along with my personality at all ... if you can reach out and be open in this situation ... maybe you have achieved that openness, accessibility and more "open concept" floor plan for life?
            It sounds like you already have it figured out, though.
            • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

              Sun, March 23, 2008 - 4:21 PM
              P said, "maybe you have achieved that openness, accessibility and more "open concept" floor plan for life?
              It sounds like you already have it figured out, though,... "

              LOL! Well P, I sure haven't "already achieved" anything, but I've got an idea for the right direction to take. What I have "achieved" is an awareness of what has been tripping me up in my personal relating. I'm going to go forward with this awareness and do my best to curtail my defense mechanisms when they begin to kick in. I have a gut feeling that putting the new "floor plan" to action will be quite an undertaking, but crucial and necessary for me to make the appropriate changes in my behavior with others.

              If you don't mind my asking, what specific sort of issues are you having with your Chiron aspects, P?
              • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

                Sun, March 23, 2008 - 4:36 PM
                P,.... I know you did mention somethings of what you are going through in general,... what I was asking you to be more "specific" about is your reference to "killing wounds." I don't think I know what you mean by this. Can you elaborate on it?
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

                  Sun, March 23, 2008 - 5:52 PM
                  Here are my chiron aspects:
                  chiron in H12 @ 6 taurus:
                  semi-sextile AC
                  square jupiter (@29 cancer - wide orb here and kinda cuspy)
                  trine saturn
                  opposite vertex (in scorpio)
                  quincunx descendent
                  square venus
                  sextile mars and ceres (on the sabian symbol for the cross)
                  semi-sextile mercury

                  In there we have a fixed grand cross:
                  vertex @ 4 scorpio
                  venus @ 5 aquarius
                  chiron @ 6 taurus
                  jupiter @ 29 cancer (wide orb ... but it's jupiter)

                  and a mystic rectangle:
                  vertex @ 4 scorpio
                  chiron @ 6 taurus
                  saturn @ 9 virgo
                  mars @ 6 pisces



                  The killing wounds I kind of see as the chiron opposing vertex in scorpio. I guess it is more of a scorpio vertex thing being affected by that opposition from chiron.
                  The reasoning behind that is the highly sensitive nature of the vertex and its meaning in scorpio combined with the "wounded healer" in H12.
                  It seems that when I am deeply wounded by someone I rather crumble. I also compulsively keep re-opening old wounds as a habit until I destroy/re-invent myself. But then usually I am reborn new again like a pheonix kind of. (At least I like to think of it that way).

                  Someone might get a perfect shot with their stinger or baste me in flamy wrath - and I will go silent for a moment as it kills me ... only to return again ready to take a new stance in the situation in almost like a totally reborn sort of way.

                  I used to cry easily when others teased me. Now I know to retreat by myself for a time and pray and let some part of me die and hope for some new life to come. I forget the cruel words and look for a way to heal the situation instead. But in the process a part of me has died inside.

                  If I get nailed at work for something or face a scalding crucible and take some serious hits from it ... I lose a part of myself but come back with a new way and I feel like a new person.

                  I re-invent myself quite often as I am really quite sensitive and wounds that land tend to take me out kind of easily.

                  I might be idealizing myself a bit because it sounds funny to write something like this. It doesn't seem normal.

                  This might seem to clash with the strength I find in that pluto-moon square. But I think that learning to go away by myself and pray and allow the transformation to happen is part of that "creative strength" I think is possible with a square.
                  Of course before I learned that there were lots of tears, depressions, tantrums even ... I think there is so much potential in a human being to grow and learn new ways to express their energy in a positive way.

                  (But my current methods make it darn hard to stay in a stable relationship with another human being who is understandably expecting to wake up to the same person each morning. Not to mention the way that any kind of intimacy activates this whole process like gangbusters. I am also pretty sure this is part of what makes it hard to "stay in love". If any guy so much as thinks about or wants another girl it KILLS ME and I just let them go *snap* like that. Who knows any guys that never think about another girl ever? And a fight will do this kind of thing, too. That's fine if things aren't too intimate. If things are intimate this process kills that intimacy off. And with some people that are kind of fixed parts of my life or long-time friends this process repeats itself over and over. I have gotten used to it all rather and while it weirds other people out to see the "before" and "after", to me it is just the way it is.)




                  I think the guardedness of that trine from saturn has been one way I have used to try to be a little bit more stable or make sure any needed transformation keeps with certain important commitments I have made. I think I use some of that to hold onto a few things so that the transformation isn't so totally consuming and disruptive as it tended to be when I was younger.

                  I kind of ... need to stay a little guarded, distant and inaccessible because I am afraid of these energies in myself being unleashed and I don't imagine how it can be healthy to do this any more than absolutely necessary.
                  I toy with the notion of just letting it happen and going through it like some weird form of forging, but it scares me actually and I don't know that I am that strong. Every time I go through this there is that question ... is this the one that finally kills me/ breaks me?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

                    Sun, March 23, 2008 - 6:26 PM
                    Well Erin,

                    With my Sun conjunct your Chiron, and my Neptune Asc. conjunct your vertex, along with all of the other dynamic synastry in our charts, perhaps I can help you with the healing process in some way...if you arent too scared that is and don't keep your guard up .
                    • Unsu...
                       

                      Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

                      Sun, March 23, 2008 - 6:36 PM
                      Well isn't rebirth/ transformation almost like a form of healing?

                      (albeit a mighty mighty unstable one .... )
                      It's working well in every area of life except one haha!
                      And I might be willing to let that one part go ... ... ...
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

                    Sun, March 23, 2008 - 9:24 PM
                    I THINK I understand what you mean by a "killing wound," P,.... It sounds like you "let go" of situations/people who hurt you deeply, or allow them to "die" in your heart and mind so that they no longer can gain access to your vulnerabilities as far as you're concerned. When you are deeply wounded, you build a wall for self-protection and self-preservation purposes,.... (I hope I understood you correctly,....)

                    You have Chiron in Taurus opposite the Vertex in Scorpio. Saturn trines Chrion, and is sextile to the Vertex.

                    I'm glad that you have Saturn in an easy aspect to the Chiron-Vertex axis because perhaps this will help you sort out the "real enemies" to your security from the "imagined" ones as Saturn is in Virgo. Sorting out things should be a natural function for Saturn here. In your case, I think that perhaps Saturn may be helping you to avoid being taken advantage of by unscrupulous folks, or get out of unhealthy or risky situations. You just need to be sure that you are being realistic in your perpective when you decide to "let go" or let a relationship "die" abrubtly so that you aren't "throwing the baby out with the bath," and severing ties to people who are actually helping you grow. However, with Venus in Aquarius square to Chiron, I'm not suprised that you are able to cut ties so abrubtly. Planets in Aquarius are quite capable of "abrubt" actions! LOL!

                    As far as it being "necessary to stay guarded" with people,. well, perhaps it is necessary to learn to take things slower in the beginning to learn how much a person can be trusted before you open up. Caution in forming intimacy is always recommended. Maybe this is Saturn's wisdom lesson for you. Also, you're probably right in that Saturn wants you to be "responsible" and "stable" in the relationships that involve your Chiron so that you can grow through the painful experience of uncovering and healing the old wounds that Chiron reveals.

                    Mars is in Pisces is also opposite Saturn, so maybe this "caution" you're showing now is the balance point between these energies. Saturn may be putting the heels on your more "idealistic" Mars that wants to be open and inclusive, perhaps to a fault at times. Mars in Pisces can also have difficulty in developing, maintaining, or recognizing personal boundaries. Mars desires may have lead you to occasionally make an error in judgment in pursuing the wrong course of action, or the wrong people for developing intimate ties that have resulted in a deep wounding that blind-sided you. Any planet in Pisces CAN fall into delusion, confusion, or "bad company" due to the influence of Nepune on the sign. Saturn is in the grounded, practical to a fault, "only the facts, ma'am" sign of Virgo to balance this trait. Both planets and positions can go to extremes, so the opposition is good for finding balance in their expression.

                    Idealism vs practicality. Wandering aimlessly vs cold, calculated action.

                    An analogy of a balance between these two would be: Saturn stands on fhe ground holding the kite string while Mars flies about joyously in the wind, just for the sheer excitement of flying because he can!

                    As far as wounds from your jealousy goes,.... that sounds like something that perhaps only finding the "right person" will help heal. I'm not being "trite" in my answer. I really mean that when you find someone who loves you in the way that your soul understands, then this will no longer be a dominant issue. I have the same problem. (Venus in Scorpio). Trust doesn't come easily for me either, so I can sympathize with you.

                    With your moon square to Pluto, it sounds like this is going to be a recurrent theme due to the developmental energy of the square aspect. But squares do tend to stablize, deepen, and strengthen the planets involved in time. The issues never "dissappear," we just become more wise and adept in handling them.

                    I'm sure that these wounds aren't meant to "kill you,' even though they do feel "fatal" when we receive them. I've had many a wounding that made me feel like I was "dying!" But then I went to bed, sometimes crying myself to sleep, and woke up to find that I lived through it and the new day was full of promise.

                    Hang in there, P! Big hugs and kisses to you! XOXOXO!!!

                    - Deb
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

      Sun, March 23, 2008 - 9:50 AM
      why's the Chiron-Venus conjunction so special in synastry? And how wide can the orb be in order to feel the effects of the conjunction?
      • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

        Mon, March 24, 2008 - 6:02 PM
        I have had the Chiron Venus conjunction in synastry and honestly it wasn't that special.

        However, I have been attracting men who activate my chiron all my life but only recently actually let them get close.....for the last 2 years ( One had NN, Sun and Saturn conjunct my chiron and the other had SN, Venus, and Sun conjunct it). The venus chiron conjunction was 7 degrees.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

          Tue, March 25, 2008 - 4:29 PM
          Coors,

          7 degrees is a pretty wide orb. I was thinking 4..max.
          • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

            Tue, March 25, 2008 - 6:53 PM
            Yeah, I agree with Mantis. With asteroids the orb is very small for consideration. It is actually 3 degrees of exact to be considered as a valid aspect in conjunctions, opposions, and trines, 2 degrees for sextiles, and 1 to 1.5 degrees for any other aspect.

            Speaking of Chiron aspects in close orb,.... with the person I mentioned who inspired this post,...there are a whopping total of 12 Chiron aspects between our charts that are 3 degrees or less of exact! No wonder I have had such a difficult time with them! Oh well,... I'm learning how to handle the energy much better now. I'm glad i've looked into this because I'm actually getting along much better with everyone at work, including the person mentioned as a result of allowing the healing balm flow in and through me.
          • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

            Tue, March 25, 2008 - 7:00 PM
            My Boyfriend and my aspects are pretty tight I'd say ; )

            His Chiron is at 10'59 Pisces
            My Venus is 7'22 Chiron 11'59 Pisces 7th house, so his Chiron is nestled right between my Chiron and Venus...

            We also share some other interesting aspects, such as Vertex, Anti Vertex conjunction and N.Nodes are conjunct as well.

            We met as Uranus was transiting our Natal Chirons, and my Venus. During our Uranus opposition. The first time he kissed me was electric, never felt anything like it! And yes, the fated quality was present as well.
    • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

      Mon, May 24, 2010 - 11:23 AM
      Captain C -

      What an insightful discussion of Chiron synastry aspects! I looked over some synastry charts, just now, that I thought might have a significant Chiron emphasis and noticed that the first girl I really opened up to romantically or sexually - who got me out of my shell - had her Venus exactly conjunct my Chiron. I also had my Mars more loosely conjunct her Chiron. There was definitely mutual attraction and I certainly felt my walls coming down, to the point that I think I drained her and overwhelmed her, because I couldn't control my feelings of affection. I threw a lot of long-time pent-up feelings at her. And I think she felt a bit pushed beyond her physical comfort level. There were definite feelings of inequality (myself being very inexperienced with dating or sexuality) and it felt like a big learning experience, even though things ended strangely and we never really had the time to become 'equals' in those areas. We also had a crazy, quincunx-filled chart and nothing really seemed certain the whole time. I felt more able to talk to her about my private life and feelings than I'd been to with most other people, we got along well and helped each other work through some things, and she definitely gently helped me work through some major blocks I had internalized pretty thoroughly (especially about dating and expressing physical and romantic affection, which is even more relevant because our Chiron/Venus conjunction was in Taurus), but there was always a push-pull feel to the whole situation where I was always uncertain who wanted what and if there was anything happening of much substance. Anyhow, that was a very Chiron-y and quincunx-y relationship...

      "No matter which type of relationship this is, one thing seems especially to be true---the planet that is aspecting Chiron from one chart to the other seems unable to keep up defenses to keep the Chiron person out. It is as if, for the Chiron person, the walls around the other come tumbling down---or at least the Chiron person has little trouble getting inside the walls the other person has built around self. And depending on how thick those wails were initially, and how dependent the person was on the security provided by the walls---such openness can be felt as truly fantastic, or extremely frightening. Especially since the person being aspected by the other’s Chiron cannot develop any other way to erect wails around his/her planet. "

      This feels so accurate to that situation.

      Also, my girlfriend has her Chiron opposite my Moon and it was also opposite her most recent ex's Moon (she was seeing both of us simultaneously for a little over a year and him for a while before that). I was wondering why a 12th House Aquarius Moon had such a thing for 6th House Scorpio Moons... Maybe that's some part of it. Some need to heal someone's emotions. She had more of an emphasis on 'heavy' Chiron aspects with him than with me, though, as his Saturn was also conjunct her Chiron and her Chiron was opposite his Venus. She felt like she needed to help him and fix him, like she was indebted to him emotionally, as a big part of their relationship. His Chiron, in their synastry chart, is unaspected. (In mine and my girlfriend's synastry chart, besides her Chiron opposing my Moon, we also have her Chiron trining my Mars and my Chiron trining her Moon and sextiling her Venus.)
  • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

    Wed, April 9, 2008 - 7:35 PM
    Hi Deb,
    I'm glad the situation touched you. I'm hanging in there. Hopefully one more month left...

    (The reason why I think Chiron remains a "mystery" to me, inspite of reading more about it, is because its function in our life is "mysterious" by nature. Perhaps the "mysterious" element is the way that Chrion brings about the healing in our lives. There is a magnetic quality to Chiron aspects in synastry, drawing "unlikely candidates" into our lives whom we may not really consciously think we "should be" attracted to. And yet, here they are, affecting us in the deepest, most sensitive parts of our being profoundly! However, I'm still on the fence as to whether I would say that relationships involving Chiron are "fated" or "destined" in nature, inspite of this magnetic quality. Healing itself is "mysterious," as it comes from the "etheral, spiritual" plane, and so Chiron contacts between others truly are an"other-dimensional" and mystical experience! )

    Well I think Chiron synastry relationships can in fact be "fated", but not in the way as Pluto and Neptune (but perhaps more like a Saturnine-fate). The reason I say this is not that the energies are necessarily reflective of Saturn's but rather because I think Saturn is more involved with this life and karma rather than a timeless type of energy that Pluto and Neptune signify.

    Pluto and Neptunian type "fated" relationships seem to be more about two SOULS. With Neptune its as if both feel their spirits, before and after this life are somehow connected and will remain so floating "out there" somewhere. With the Plutonian type of fate is more like this irrational, extreme energy that makes one feel their connection with the other can and has defied death, and that it will again via this person appearing once again in another life, after "dying" and perhaps again in another life, like some compulsive energy that will not let go..or truly ever die. I think the Plutonian connection is that: something that has no end, and perhaps (therefore) no beginning, so neither does a connection btw these two souls (for good or for ill).

    Chiron to me seems like a "life time" energy, one that fits into some type of structure of sorts: mainly place and time. But to me that is still in a way "fated", because it seems as if the Universe steps in and places this Chironic energy in your life so that healing takes place and the soul can evolve certain issues so that they will not repeat in another life. Anyone that comes in and aids this process seems to me to be someone that is MEANT to, who was placed there by the Universe for the very task described above. They may not be back in another life-in fact I do not think they will. I think the Chironic energy signifies that. Chiron himself did not get healed until he gave up his immortality, and with his death his issue died (and Prometheus in turn was saved). It seems this selfless aspect plays in the Chironic experience because the healer's soul heals without asking for an involvement in return (like Pluto or Neptune) from you in another life. But these are just my theories.

    (Liz Greene said in the article you posted that the wounds that Chiron reveals are "unhealable." ???? Interesting,... I'm not sure what to make of that. She says that they are a result of our past, which is "unremakeable." And yet goes on to say that there can be healing as a result of Chiron contacts,... Hmmm,... If she means that the "cause of the wounds is unalterable, but we can still be healed in the area that the past has wounded us," then I think I understand. Perhaps another take on the "unhealable wounds" is that she is saying that the "circumstances that cause the wounding in the relationship are a result of our past, and these circumstances created in the past, ie,.. children from a past relationship, remain,. Thus the wounding continues, and so we are unable to heal from it." Her wording is ambiguous in places, but the article was still worth reading and did give some insight into the symbolism of Chiron aspecting the sun in a composite chart. )

    Well there are so many takes on this. I'll start with a person and Chiron in their charts. For example my guy has a hearing deficiency which I think he had from birth. He has Mercury in Cap and Saturn on the Asc. He also has Chiron conjunct Moon in 3rd house (conj. his IC) square Saturn. I'm sure his impairment may have brought him some pain and insecurities when younger (esp. considering when he was born to about 25 or so hearing aids were mammoth, there were less opportunities for people like him and lets not talk about all the other issues-people not understanding him and other communication problems, frustrations, social isolation, etc.).

    Well that pain is deep rooted, could be from birth. Over time him and others may have healed it but that doesn't change the fact that it was there, that it IS there, a part of him that has fashioned who he is and his life. You can't change the past, as Liz Greene said, you can't erase the pain that occurred and the person you have become because of the experience. Even if the resulting insecurities and other effects are smooth over, even if you change and heal it is still BECAUSE of the wound that you needed change/healing in the first place...the wound is always a factor in your life. You also have to deal with memories.

    (Hmmm,... If she means that the cause of the wounds is unalterable, but we can still be healed in the area that the past has wounded us)

    If you really think about it when you get injured you heal but that spot doesn't return to the SAME way it was, ever. There's a scar. Scars never go away truly but they can fade so much they appear they have. There are changes that occur when a bone heals. Sometimes these even ache when one gets older or in cold weather. Something has changed and it won't go back to the way it was even after healing.

    However, it seems that natal Chiron aspects are less difficult than relationship/synastry ones. To me the relationship aspects are almost like as if the wound is an open sore, albeit a constantly pampered one. The combined effect can seem really comfortable, nurturing and intimate but the constant reminder of the wound is painful.

    One example Grene gave was the age difference thing. If you love someone deeply but everyday you know that they will most likely die way before you do and leave you and you're watching them age it can slowly chip away at you even as you both heal and nurture each other's painful awareness of this as well as your deep love for each other. Unlike the natal Chiron aspect where the wound as healed, and the body altered, with two people the two planets are constantly scraping against each other, the issues always as alive as they were at day one. However, I think, unlike the natal aspect since the issues are so alive the healing evolves to a much higher level.

    Guess its give and take.

    Have you ever seen Far From Heaven? Julianne Moore's character and the black guy would be an example of a tragic Chironic relationship (I also think from her husband's standpoint his relationship with her was Chironic). If she had stayed with the black guy and moved away with him not only would the pain they faced in the past always be there (their horrible experiences in their former community) but, most importantly, the everyday abuse they would have to take from racists-both white and black. They would definitely be isolated and have to turn to each other from healing. The sore would always be there; they could never erase the color of their skins or the people persecuting them. All they could do is ignore it and wait for people to change and even when society does it doesn't erase everything they faced before.

    I guess that's why some people feel like its just easier to cut the ties, no matter how painful it may be initially. They will always have that painful memory but it will be a memory not their life. (Chiron and Virgo-daily life, 6th house)...

    Personally I'd rather be with someone and experience what they have to give and think about the beauty and healing and forget about what everyone thinks or their age or other supposed painful things brought on by a Chironic relationship. I think it takes a fair amount of Uranus to get past the Chiron factor. One has to embrace many of the qualities of the planet-independence, adventure, freedom, not caring what other's think/drumming to your own beat,"eccentricity", etc. Perhaps this is signified in Chiron's orbit because it doesn't quite touch Uranus'. If one can get past the heavy Saturnine aspects of Chiron and reach past that, perhaps there's a way to circumvent a lot of these problems.
    • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

      Thu, April 10, 2008 - 10:01 PM
      Thanks for sharing, UIP. That was very insightful! I appreciated the examples because this is a rather "complicated" sort of planet, any illustrations are helpful. LOL!

      Yeah, I agree that Uranus contacts would be helpful wih Chiron, perhaps to balance out the Saturn contactx. That would definitely help to be more progressive minded and push into growth, rather than get "stuck" by Saturn.
      • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

        Sun, April 13, 2008 - 6:01 PM
        Hello, everyone.. I'm new here.. Could someone tell me about these aspects in synastry..? It's realy important...
        Moon trine Chiron
        Venus sextile Chiron
        Mars sextile Chiron
        Chiron trine Sun
        Chiron trine Mercury
        Chiron opposition Uranus
        Chiron conjunction North Node
        Chiron sextile Lilith

        Thank you...
    • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

      Mon, May 5, 2008 - 11:11 PM
      I found what you said interesting. I am married, but recently a man whom I experienced love at first sight with 35 years ago, (whom I worked for and did his birth chart - came back into my life). I experienced the same feelings again.

      I have my Chiron on top of his Venus (literally at 5 degrees of Aquarius) and conjunct his Saturn. We have many Pluto connections in both ways as well as Venus/Mars connections in both ways.

      I remember me saying to him recently that he builds barriers around himself and him saying to me thatI had sussed him out. In our composite chart, the composite Sun is conjunct Chiron as well, something Liz Greene(who I have enormous respect for) says presents limitations in a relationship. His Chiron makes many sextile connections to my chart, Venus, Jupiter, Uranus and opposes my Saturn., The whole connection is extremely magnetic.
  • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

    Wed, November 26, 2008 - 8:19 PM
    I am in a new relationship and we definitely have chiron conjunctions in synastry.

    My natal chiron which is on my midheaven conjuncts his mars and his mercury in his first house (aries).
    Also, his chiron(10th house) conjuncts my natal jupiter (6th house)- pluto is getting ready to transit here as well

    Can anyone offer some insights into these placements?

    The relationship thus far is deeply steeped in healing old wounds (especially mine). I am curious to see if I too play a role in facilitating healing for him.
    Thanks,
    Mimi (New to this!)
    • Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

      Thu, November 27, 2008 - 12:41 AM
      Hey, Mimi! Welcome.

      Well, Chiron contacts are most deeply and consciously felt by the personal planets, and that primarily when there is a close conjunction between them, (1 to 2 degrees apart). The personal planets contacted by Chiron feel as if they are "exposed" by the Chiron person's presence. All of the defense mechanisms seem to just fall away around them.

      In the case of a Jupiter contact to Chiron, there is likely to be more of an "other-worldly" sort of communication going on between you. I guess you could call it "psychic," but it is really more of a "raising of consciousness." The level of communication is more likely to be raised to a spiritual plane, where the two of you will want to take the higher road in your relationship. What does that mean? Well, to be honest it means that spiritual growth will be necessary in order for you to move forward in your relationship. It may mean that he will facilitate your finding your own inner guide. He may lead you to renew your own faith in yourself and your higher power and/or God, or belief system as the 6th house is the house of mentors and Jupiter rules belief systems. Any painful wounds you may harbor as a resul of losing faith will be brought to your conscious mind so that you can address this and release any burdens of guilt you may be carrying around.

      Having your Chiron conjunct his Mercury and Mars may bring about his being more aware of his own mental processes, (Mercury), and his use of his own sexualilty and ambitious drive, (Mars), when he is around you. Wounds may be uncovered were he felt impotent in attaining his goals in life, or felt like he wasn't "sexy enough" around women to whom he felt attracted. This may make him seem very shy or awkward around you because you stir up his memories of "failures" in this area. As far as Mercury goes, he may have had doubts about his own intellectual powers that were pretty much hidden behind a mask of bravado with his Mercury conjunct his Mars. He may feel that you can see right through this facade and he may seem irritable or uncomfortable around you at times as a result because his defenses don't work around you.

      As far as compability with Chiron and Mars contacts, they are a good indicator that the contact is good for you both. Inspite of how uncomfortable you may make him feel, he probably doesn't feel that you are there to hurt him. For him, it may be nice to feel that he can stop putting up a front and begin to engage in a real relationship with someone who can see him clearly, without the facade, though this may take time for him to fully relax with you. For you, it will be nice to find someone who will allow you to be close to him as himself, without the games.

      Chiron is not a planet that we can direct. How our Chiron placement affects others when we encounter them is just a mystery of the Universe as much as it is how their Chiron will affect us. It is really a beautiful thing when Chiron's working touches a person deeply, because the painful exposure of hidden wounds is a necessary function to bring them to the fore where they can be addressed and healed.

      At the same time, Chiron's influence may seem to cause these painful areas to remain exposed and therefore they never seem to stop being a "sore spot" if we "pick at them," no matter how much time, patience, and understanding we give to our partner or they give to us whenever we're around. Therefore, it is important to gain sensitivity in how we handle each other because the wound remains. What Chrion offers is the possibility of the person who is wounded to be able to help others with a similar wound, not necessarity remove it from us entirely. We just gain understanding and grow as a result of the exposure of the wound to our conscious mind.

      What is "so good about that?" Well, in truth, we all have wounds that we want to bury. Chiron helps us to "stop burying them," and grow from them in order to learn to rise above the "disability" that they represent. Without the exposure there could be no growth. We would simply "limp along," angry, bitter, and frustrated, harboring a poisonous, resentful spirit that not only doesn't help us, but makes us become "toxic" to ourselves and others. Chiron frees our spirit, and this is good for us and everyone we encounter. Thus, we embody the Chiron spirit: the wounded healer.
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        b
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        Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

        Sat, May 22, 2010 - 6:55 PM
        This is a way old thread, but it is very informative! I have some tidbits about a current relationship that has chiron contacts that may shed light on some of the interplays between them. Though it is only two months in, so the aspects probably haven't played out fully.

        My Chiron is conjunct a man's saturn 4 degrees in Gemini. When we first met one of the first things he said to me is that he thought he was old and he couldn't do all that he could when he was young. I said to him, "oh come on, 37 is not old." (which it's not, my goodness) It seemed to strike him.

        He has Saturn square Venus/Mercury (Sat and Mer retrograde), so my Chiron squares his Pisces Venus/Mercury (3 degrees and 0 degrees, my Jupiter is also conjunct his Venus 0 degrees). He writes poetry and nonfiction, and several times he's shown me his work saying things along the lines of "I've never let anyone see this before. I'm so uncomfortable with this." He believes no one will really accept what he thinks, and I find his ideas to be often brilliant and let him know this, hoping he'll get over his fear of exposing them to others. I've said something like, "even though you say you want to keep your thoughts to yourself, at the same time you seem eager to share them." and he admits with some embarassment that he is, and how admitting them to me is freaking him out. I'm encouraging him to publish his work (Jupiter showing this, most likely).

        Some negative aspects of these may surface as time goes on, but these are some examples of what positive things Chiron can bring, I think.
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    Re: Chiron aspects in synastry and composite

    Sun, May 23, 2010 - 10:57 AM
    i have recently met some one with whom i have a very interesting configuration: a grand cross, formed by my venus south node on his asc in aquarius squaring his mars saturn in scorpio squaring my north node vertex on his desc in leo squaring my kiron in taurus and back to the venus asc south node. any help, please?

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