Myers-Briggs and the Nodal Axis - Case study: me.

topic posted Sun, November 15, 2009 - 12:44 PM by  MantisReligiosa
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I just got into the Myers-Briggs personality assessment this last week-again-and realized, after reading several descriptions of my own personality type, of INTP, called a "Rational" type, is that it seems to really reflect my Nodal Axis "situation". Particularly the one according to the whole sign house system..

Lemme post one very structured description:

A description of the INTP Personality Type

by Paul James

Original version: April 5, 1999
revised and published on the web: March 12, 2000

INTP is one of the 16 personality types defined in the Myers Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI). I will assume that visitors to this page already have a basic knowledge of the MBTI system for I wish to concentrate on describing the INTP type as best I can. The descriptions below are based on personal experience combined with knowledge derived from other MBTI sources and I hope that other INTPs and non-INTPs alike may find some of this material illuminating. This page may be updated and expanded when appropriate.

For a general introduction and overview of MBTI temperament analysis, visit Robert Winer's excellent resource at Gesher.

INTPs are about 1% of the general population, making this one of the rarest of types. The basic dynamic of the INTP is illustrated in the following table:


RANK of FUNCTION FUNCTION ORIENTATION
Dominant Thinking Introverted ( Ti )
Secondary iNtuition Extraverted ( Ne )
Tertiary Sensing Introverted ( Si )
Inferior Feeling Extraverted ( Fe )

Primary Axis: Introverted Thinking - Extraverted Intuition

The INTP is above all a thinker and his inner (private) world is a place governed by a strong sense of logical structure. Every experience is to be rigorously analysed, the task of the INTP's mind is to fit each encountered idea or experience into a larger structure defined by logic. For here is the central goal of the INTP: to understand and seek truth. The experience of anything takes a back seat. The INTP is not interested in experiences themselves but is far more fascinated by concepts. The drive to understand things that are not yet understood is a very powerful force in the life of an INTP. Where the Ti preference is strong, this drive can override the experiential element so strongly that the INTP will become quickly bored with anything that he has successfully analysed to the point of understanding it. Once understood, it has nothing left to offer, once the satisfaction which comes with achieving the goal of understanding diminishes. Indeed, most primary interests of an INTP are things which he cannot fully understand, usually because they are highly complex or have some exotic, mystical element that does not yield to analysis. This is the real reason why INTPs are drawn to complexity: anything simple is too quickly understood and cannot hold the fascination for long. Similarly, proficiency in any area (which requires continual practice after understanding) is not such a driving force as it might be for NTJs, for example. While a judging NT will often seek to become master of his field, an INTP is satisfied by analysing it alone. The latter is often more of dabbler with ideas which leads me on to his second crucial aspect: detachment.

The Ti-Ne axis leads to a curious overriding desire to observe from a detached position, indicating the preference for intuitive perception with respect to external things. Since accurate analysis needs to avoid becoming hampered with details or being influenced by the actions of others, the INTP invariably seeks to withdraw, at least in spirit, from the situation being considered. This detachment can sometimes be so marked that he will readily see himself as a neutral observer having no personal association with that going on around him (unless forced to become directly involved through an attack on his principles). The INTP enjoys speculating about how a news item (for example) might be received by other people or how a point of view might offend certain types of people and be supported by yet other types; but to have a point of view of his own rarely seems relevant! This also indicates that Feeling is his least developed function. The argument may even be made that "points of view" and "opinions" are irrelevant since only objective truth counts. In reality, INTPs can often become far less objective than they think they ought to be: precisely at those times when the under-developed Feeling gnaws at his being.

I think this so-called "primary axis" is enough to encompass the main issues presented by my nodal axis, as well. But, if you're curious, here's the whole article: www.intp.org/intprofile.html

And here's the test I took to find out my personality type: www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

And now, my nodal axis...

according to the whole sign house system, my North Node is in 4 d Pisces, conjunct Mercury in 3 d Pisces, sextile Uranus in 5 d Capricorn, in the 7th house.
South Node in 4 d Virgo, opposite Mercury in 3d Pisces, trine Uranus in 5 d Capricorn, and in the 1st house.

Both Nodes are squared by Moon-Mars-Jupiter in 0 d Gemini.

In Pacidus, same thing, except my North Node's in my 6th, and South Node is in the 12th.


However, a Virgo-Pisces Nodal axis set on the 1st and 7th houses pretty much sounds exactly like "Introverted Thinking - Extraverted Intuition", doesn't it?
Also goes perfectly well with the other defining traits of "introverted sensing"-Virgo(earth sign, which primarily functions through the 5 senses) in the 1st house(self-preoccupied and self-absorbed), and "extraverted feeling"- Pisces, the most feeling dominated of signs, in the 7th house, the house of "the others".

yes ANOTHER reason to flush Placidus' house system down the toilet.

So, what do you think? am I on to something?

Also, I realize it's a lot of work for just one thread, on one tribe, on one site you normally check in your limited time online, but I would REALLY appreciate it if you could also take the test and post your personality type, with its dominant features, as well as your Nodal Axis situation-nodes by signs, and houses (in the whole sign house system, please), with all their major aspects.

Thank you, thank you very much...LOL.
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  • INTJ, "Mastermind". From the article:

    "Masterminds are rare, comprising no more than, say, one percent of the population, and they are rarely encountered outside their office, factory, school, or laboratory. Although they are highly capable leaders, Masterminds are not at all eager to take command, preferring to stay in the background until others demonstrate their inability to lead. Once they take charge, however, they are thoroughgoing pragmatists. Masterminds are certain that efficiency is indispensable in a well-run organization, and if they encounter inefficiency-any waste of human and material resources-they are quick to realign operations and reassign personnel. Masterminds do not feel bound by established rules and procedures, and traditional authority does not impress them, nor do slogans or catchwords. Only ideas that make sense to them are adopted; those that don't, aren't, no matter who thought of them. Remember, their aim is always maximum efficiency.
    In their careers, Masterminds usually rise to positions of responsibility, for they work long and hard and are dedicated in their pursuit of goals, sparing neither their own time and effort nor that of their colleagues and employees. Problem-solving is highly stimulating to Masterminds, who love responding to tangled systems that require careful sorting out. Ordinarily, they verbalize the positive and avoid comments of a negative nature; they are more interested in moving an organization forward than dwelling on mistakes of the past.

    Masterminds tend to be much more definite and self-confident than other Rationals, having usually developed a very strong will. Decisions come easily to them; in fact, they can hardly rest until they have things settled and decided. But before they decide anything, they must do the research. Masterminds are highly theoretical, but they insist on looking at all available data before they embrace an idea, and they are suspicious of any statement that is based on shoddy research, or that is not checked against reality.

    Alan Greenspan, Ben Bernanke, Dwight D. Eisenhower, General Ulysses S. Grant, Frideriche Nietsche, Niels Bohr, Peter the Great, Stephen Hawking, John Maynard Keynes, Lise Meitner, Ayn Rand and Sir Isaac Newton are examples of Rational Masterminds."

    - keirsey.com/handler.aspx

    My nodes: 6th house Cancer N. Node; 12th house Cap S. Node

    All in all, I think my airy aspects have more to do with my Meyers-Briggs personality than my nodes. I just tend to feel happier when I apply my meyers-briggs stuff to Cancerian objectives.
    • The last time I took the Myers Briggs type indicator it came up with ISTJ (Introvert, Sensing, Thinking, Judging).

      Primary Function Introverted Sensing

      Secondary Function Extraverted Thinking

      Tertiary Function Introverted Feeling

      Least Function Extraverted Intuition

      The type description for ISTJ:

      Dependable, practical, sensible, and realistic.
      Responsible and loyal to organizations, fame, and relationships.
      Likely to absorb, remember, and use facts carfully and accurately.
      Likely to value procedures, stucture, and schedules.
      Most comfortable when roles and responsibliities are clearly defined.
      Objective and logical when making decisions; look for solution to current problems in past experiences.
      Usually seen by others as calm, serious, orderly, and traditonal.

      The two inner letter most likely changable, the I__J constant.

      I actually found the the Strong Interest Inventory to be more comprehensive. Its categories/themes involve: Artistic, Realistic, Investigative, Convential, and Enterprising.

      Sidereal Whole house, n.n. carpricorn/aquarius cusp, s.n. cancer/leo cusp, AC Virgo, MC Gemini
    • you haven't mentioned any aspects to the nodes, yoda.

      typelogic.com/intj.html

      Introverted iNtuition
      INTJs are idea people. Anything is possible; everything is negotiable. Whatever the outer circumstances, INTJs are ever perceiving inner pattern-forms and using real-world materials to operationalize them. Others may see what is and wonder why; INTJs see what might be and say "Why not?!" Paradoxes, antinomies, and other contradictory phenomena aptly express these intuitors' amusement at those whom they feel may be taking a particular view of reality too seriously. INTJs enjoy developing unique solutions to complex problems.

      Extraverted Thinking
      Thinking in this auxiliary role is a workhorse. Closure is the payoff for efforts expended. Evaluation begs diagnosis; product drives process. As they come to light, Thinking tends, protects, affirms and directs iNtuition's offspring, fully equipping them for fulfilling and useful lives. A faithful pedagogue, Thinking argues not so much on its own behalf, but in defense of its charges. And through this process these impressionable ideas take on the likeness of their master.

      Introverted Feeling
      Feeling has a modest inner room, two doors down from the Most Imminent iNtuition. It doesn't get out much, but lends its influence on behalf of causes which are Good and Worthy and Humane. We may catch a glimpse of it in the unspoken attitude of good will, or the gracious smile or nod. Some question the existence of Feeling in this type, yet its unseen balance to Thinking is a cardinal dimension in the full measure of the INTJ's soul.

      Extraverted Sensing
      Sensing serves with a good will, or not at all. As other inferior functions, it has only a rudimentary awareness of context, amount or degree. Thus INTJs sweat the details or, at times, omit them. "I've made up my mind, don't confuse me with the facts" could well have been said by an INTJ on a mission. Sensing's extraverted attitude is evident in this type's bent to savor sensations rather than to merely categorize them. Indiscretions of indulgence are likely an expression of the unconscious vengeance of the inferior.

      sounds to me like you might've integrated your north node, already, using both nodes equally well. introverted intuition and feeling sounds like cancer in the 6th..the rest, kind of like capricorn.

      ps intjs are my "complements".."grin"
      • Aspects to my nodes? This is becoming quite labor-intensive, lol... In a nutshell, my nodes get plenty of aspects to get them owkring, although I tend to only look at aspects between the moon and its nodes. My 7th, 8th, and 10th house planets give my north node the spurs; My Uranus reinforces both nodes with a trine and sextile to the N & S nodes respectively. My moon being conjunct the South Node and opposite the North Node is probably the most heavy-hitting nodal aspect in my chart IMO.

        I wish I could say I've fully integrated my North Node, but it remains a work in progress. I think I have it up and running, though. My South Node conjunct my cap moon is a blessing, as it tends to helps me realize that my cap moon baggage isn't real and needs to be let go. The North Node in Cancer opposite my moon gives me the healthy alternatives, knowing is only half the battle per the wise words of GI Joe.

        "ps intjs are my "complements".."grin" "

        How unlucky to be stuck complemented by hapless wiseasses such as myself! Condolences...
  • I got INTP today.
    It's funny cuz on another occasion I got ISTJ.
    And a few years ago, I got ISTP.
    In high school I got INFP.

    Inconsistent results may be due to my changing moods, or the fact that I took many different quizzes that have different methods of questioning and scoring. Or maybe the Jungian type quiz is not a once-and-for-all personality test.

    At least we know that I'll always be Introverted. This aspect of my personality is indeed very difficult to change.

    Could the ~ E vs I ~ be attributed to the polarities: Feminine vs Masculine energies?

    In my chart, most of my personal planets fall into Feminine Signs (2 Cancer, 1 Virgo, 1 Capricorn). Only masculine personal planet is Mercury in Leo. All my other generational planets fall in masculine signs (2 Libra, 3 Sagittarius).

    I've read somewhere that the 4 Functions are the Elements.
    Sensing - Earth
    Intuition - Fire
    Thinking - Air
    Feeling - Water

    From Wikipedia:
    "Although people use all four cognitive functions, one function is generally used in a more conscious and confident way. This dominant function is supported by the secondary (auxiliary) function, and to a lesser degree the tertiary function. The fourth and least conscious function is always the opposite of the dominant function. Myers called this inferior function the shadow."

    I guess. My most dominant function is... Thinking? (Thinking because I got "T" more often than F, and more consistently?)

    I don't know how that happens since I only have Saturn/Pluto in Libra. My NORTH NODE is in Gemini. Does Chiron in Gemini also make on think more?
    And if Ceres is a planet(oid) like Pluto, then Aquarius counts. (trine Sat/Pluto and Gem NN; sextile Nep/SN; semi-sqr Moon)

    Seriously though I am confused right now juggling which is my dominant, and which my shadow. There's an elements chart in my picture album that doesn't agree with my Myers-Briggs results... According to it, my functions are: Feeling > Intuition > Thinking > Sensing.

    Oh whatever whatever!!!

    ~~~~~

    Just answer the ques: How does my Nodal Axis correlate with my (current) INTP result.

    North Node in Gemini 8th house.
    South Node in Sagittarius 2nd house.

    Does that make sense already...?

    ~~~~~

    I'm so hungry right now, I'm going to stop writing and find something to eat. TTYL.
  • Right off the bat, I'm gonna admit that I barely skimmed this thread - right now I honestly have the attention span of a gnat (I wanna play video games again real bad, honestly), and gonna log off soon...I just wanted to say, if this thread is about trying to find a link between astrology and those personality tests, I don't know what to tell you, because the last time I took one of those tests, it said I was an INTP, but my natal chart says the exact opposite.

    And really, I feel they were both very correct. Go figure.
  • INTP "The Architect" suits me down to the ground. As a Sidereal Gemini (better known as Cancer) with Sid Lib (Tropical Scorpio) rising my chart is pretty thinky and intuitive. "Precise about their descriptions, INTPs will often correct others (or be sorely tempted to) if the shade of meaning is a bit off." Have to agree there (sigh), and one of the main reasons I have felt compelled to take the directions I have taken in astrology.
  • "However, a Virgo-Pisces Nodal axis set on the 1st and 7th houses pretty much sounds exactly like "Introverted Thinking - Extraverted Intuition", doesn't it?"

    Ummm...no. I would say that it does sound alot like someone with strong Virgo. So, if I were to rely simply on the nodes, the 12th/6th house split would make more sense, as it accents the Virgo by being in the 6th house.

    I really don't think that any personality test, like any personality, is based solely on one piece of the chart, but the chart as a whole. I, personally, have found the rising sign as typically important. But that also depends on the rest of the chart. You'll likely see the strongest energies in your chart represented.

    I'm an ENFP... if you read the descriptions and try to associate it to an astrological sign, I'd say it matches best with Aquarius. In whole house, my N. Node is ninth house Libra.

    Here's the first paragraph on an ENFP type:

    "ENFPs are both "idea"-people and "people"-people, who see everyone and everything as part of an often bizarre cosmic whole. They want to both help (at least, their own definition of "help") and be liked and admired by other people, on bo th an individual and a humanitarian level. They are interested in new ideas on principle, but ultimately discard most of them for one reason or another."

    Ummm... yeah... if that doesn't sound like they're describing an Aquarius, I don't know what is... humanitarianism, individuality, seeing things as a whole, wanting to help, full of ideas, skeptical. And when you go on, it gets into being extroverted but needing space, constantly scanning your environment (the Uranian electricity), being good at starting things but not so good at finishing them, etc. Seems to fit my rising sign better than anything.

    Sorry, but you're not selling me on the whole house system. I've seen WAY too much evidence of the importance of intercepted signs to ignore it.
    • exio, man,

      feel free to Placidus.LOL. But I've seen too much accuracy in my whole sign version of dispositors in houses descriptions to ignore it.

      I don't think my INTP's description sounds like any one sign..it does, however, sound a lot like the Virgo/Pisces axis.

      Lemme give you the full INTP traits:

      Jungian functional preference ordering:

      Dominant: Introverted Thinking
      Auxiliary: Extraverted Intuition
      Tertiary: Introverted Sensing
      Inferior: Extraverted Feeling

      Now, that I take a closer look, it looks more like my Moon and Mercury situation. Extraverted intuition and feeling resonates with Moon in Gemini, conjunct Mars, conjunct Jupiter, and square Mercury.

      And introverted thinking and sensing sound a lot like Mercury in Pisces, square Moon, square Mars, square Jupiter, and sextile Uranus.

      Maybe sensing is Venus in Pisces?

      Anyway, I feel like my North Node, Mercury and Venus sound a lot more accurate in the 7th house, instead of the 6th, exio.
  • I'm pretty much always INTJ, as are a lot of my science friends. I don't really believe in those population rankings because the majority of people I have known fall in those supposed lower-ranking scales. Then again, I do like unique people.

    I have north node conjunct Saturn in the 3rd in Virgo, south node in the 9th in Pisces. Obviously Saturn in Virgo alone is very INTJ, but the 3rd/9th house axis does solidify such a placement. Saturn in the 3rd is very introverted in communications, but I am still able to be an outspoken leader-type, as are most INTJs (reluctant leaders), probably due to aspects to Mars in trine in the 10th.
  • ali
    ali
    offline 0
    INTJ

    North Node:


    Virgo
    1st house
    Conjunct mars
    (Jupiter is conjunct Mars but not Node)

    South Node:


    Pisces
    7th house
    No major aspects


    I always attributed my INTJ type to my mercury/uranus conjunction,
    mars, jupiter and saturn, North node in virgo
    and my pluto in the third (mercury) House.



    I'm cerebral to a fault.

    but i'm also heavily intuitive.. Sun Conjunct Neptune in 4th/fifth house.. Cancer moon in 12th.. mercury/uranus conjunction in Scorpio in the 4th house.. 8th house cusp: pisces..


  • I think there's a problem with tying personality type to the nodes... the nodes move very slowly through the signs. So only the house placement would change between individuals born within quite a wide range of time.
    • Another idea to consider is where an individual is in their evolution regarding personality and soul ...

      & as exio pointed out, the nodal signs move slowly, around 2 yrs, (however long the group sign eclipses last, I forget)... so maybe the moon would be something to look at, as well as the phase it is in at the time of birth, since the lunar nodes are what is being considered here. And if the focus would shift to the houses involved in the nodal axis, that gets tricky, one of the nodes is always above the horizon & one is below and both I feel are always at play, and again how evolved the person with regards to their natal chart is significant.

      I still find this thread very creative and interesting :-)
      • ok, fine. It was a bad idea. should I delete the thread?
        • I don't see any reason for that. But I'm wondering if you look at what each letter represents, if you might be able to find a reasonably consistent pattern... i.e.:

          The first letter has to do with how we take in information... so maybe has to do with Ascendant/Mars?

          The second letter has to do with how we interpret information... so maybe has some connection to Mercury/3rd House?

          Third letter has to do with how we make decisions based on that info... I don't know, 2nd house/Venus?

          The 4th letter is whether which function we generally prefer... perceptive (represented by the second letter N/S) or judging (represented by the 3rd letter T/F). I'm not sure on this one, but maybe something to do with the Sun and Moon.
          • yes, I've thought of that, especially since this is based on jungian psychology..
            • OMG. I just found this about INTP "subtypes": homepage.mac.com/bahlberg/...index.html

              I just realized I am..

              4) Religious Fanatic:
              This type has given internal logic up for the external imposition of logic. This is usually due to severe bullying and ridicule as a child, which causes this INTP to be crushed to an empty shell – the perfect vessel for religion. These INTPs have no need for mere objective logic; they become masters of their religion, able to counter any argument logically within the confines of said religion. They accept the tenets and scriptures on "faith", and then feed it into their pool of logic. This type of INTP is incapable of losing an argument as they can creatively invent new logic off of old ideas. If their religion tells them the sun is a big chocolate square, they WILL FIND A WAY to deflect any argument that points out that the sun, in fact, is not a big chocolate square at all. The easiest way to end a debate with this type is "you are right" (due to the fact that they are incapable of being wrong, as that would require more pages of the dead sea scrolls which have yet to turn up).

              and my "religion"...it's astrology. wut does this mean??I'm so confused..I'mma take a break from astrology..I'm serious, this time.
              • The sun *is* a big chocolate square.... mmmmmm, chocolate...
                • I am INFJ

                  Whole house just doesn't work for me, personally, but someone else may click with it better than placidus. I'd like to discuss this a bit, as the Myers-Briggs thing is interesting to me. I find the INFJ descriptions fitting, but can I use it with the house system I prefer, or is it whole house only here on this thread?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Use whatever house system you like.
                    • INFJ
                      Counselors have an exceptionally strong desire to contribute to the welfare of others, and find great personal fulfillment interacting with people, nurturing their personal development, guiding them to realize their human potential. Although they are happy working at jobs (such as writing) that require solitude and close attention, Counselors do quite well with individuals or groups of people, provided that the personal interactions are not superficial, and that they find some quiet, private time every now and then to recharge their batteries. Counselors are both kind and positive in their handling of others; they are great listeners and seem naturally interested in helping people with their personal problems. Not usually visible leaders, Counselors prefer to work intensely with those close to them, especially on a one-to-one basis, quietly exerting their influence behind the scenes.

                      Counselors are scarce, little more than one percent of the population, and can be hard to get to know, since they tend not to share their innermost thoughts or their powerful emotional reactions except with their loved ones. They are highly private people, with an unusually rich, complicated inner life. Friends or colleagues who have known them for years may find sides emerging which come as a surprise. Not that Counselors are flighty or scattered; they value their integrity a great deal, but they have mysterious, intricately woven personalities which sometimes puzzle even them.

                      Counselors tend to work effectively in organizations. They value staff harmony and make every effort to help an organization run smoothly and pleasantly. They understand and use human systems creatively, and are good at consulting and cooperating with others. As employees or employers, Counselors are concerned with people's feelings and are able to act as a barometer of the feelings within the organization.

                      Blessed with vivid imaginations, Counselors are often seen as the most poetical of all the types, and in fact they use a lot of poetic imagery in their everyday language. Their great talent for language-both written and spoken-is usually directed toward communicating with people in a personalized way. Counselors are highly intuitive and can recognize another's emotions or intentions - good or evil - even before that person is aware of them. Counselors themselves can seldom tell how they came to read others' feelings so keenly. This extreme sensitivity to others could very well be the basis of the Counselor's remarkable ability to experience a whole array of psychic phenomena.

                      Mohandas Gandhi, Sidney Poitier, Eleanor Roosevelt, Jane Goodall, Emily Bronte, Sir Alec Guiness, Carl Jung, Mary Baker Eddy, Queen Noor are examples of the Counselor Idealist (INFJ).

                      My Nodal situation-North Node in Leo 10th house conjunct Sun, quintile moon,
                      SN Aquarius 4th house, oppose sun, whats the opposite of quintile moon and does that even apply?

                      I feel this fits me pretty good. I feel like I sometimes switch between an inner and outer understanding. My birthday is July 25th, so I am close to Cancer and 'the cusp of oscillation' anyways. I need to give this more thought as right now my head is feeling explosive. Weird enough, Carl Jung's bday is July 26 and he is also a Leo sun/Taurus moon. Although some put his moon at Cap, so not sure about that.
              • "OMG. I just found this about INTP "subtypes": homepage.mac.com/bahlberg/...index.html

                I just realized I am.. "


                I have to bookmark that link to show to my friend - she's gonna love that.


                "3) Classic Nerds:
                Similar to golden boys without the golden spoons, they tend to be intelligent, yet utterly incapable of holding a jargon free conversation. Most normal humans are incapable of communication with them outside of topics such as Star Trek, role-playing games, or the latest Matrix movie. To most, they appear asexual (and tend to BE asexual). They tend to get low level programming jobs, teach computer science at the local community college, or unemployed creating annoying email viruses while living in their parent's basement in a rat-hole filled with moldy pizza and empty potato chip bags. If they find a woman at all, it tends to be in their late 20's to mid 30's, when they realize that the odd human mating rituals involve things such as bathing and clean laundry, however, fortunately, they tend to attract others of the same subtype for mating – greasy overweight slobs, or Auschwitz- skinny freaks with coke bottle glasses, and can easily be spotted together with dyed black hair, wearing matching "Card Captor Sakura" t-shirts while browsing the latest additions to the anime section at blockbuster, while talking about their latest goth festival or roll playing gathering."

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