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people who are into BDSM

topic posted Thu, September 27, 2007 - 1:58 PM by  Clover
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Hi! I don't know much about astrology but I am so curious if anyone has noticed any similarities in the charts of people who are into BDSM or M/s relationships?

Blessings,
Chenae
posted by:
Clover
Washington
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  • Re: people who are into BDSM

    Thu, September 27, 2007 - 7:22 PM
    hmmm.....does Venus in Pisces tend to want to be dominated?
    • Re: people who are into BDSM

      Thu, September 27, 2007 - 8:01 PM
      Hmmm,... good question! I guess that Venus in Pisces MIGHT want to be dominated, but Venus is exalted in Pisces, (due to the "higher octave of Neptune" relationship). However, I think that Venus in Pisces might be more apt to express a spiritual yearning for merging with a soulmate than to be dominated. Venus in the 8th house and also in Pisces might enjoy a dominate partner if that partner were able to help them submit to their carnal desires for the purpose of transcending them and reaching a more spiritual dimension.

      I've known a few Venus in Pisces persons, and they may have a desire for their mate to take the lead in the relationship, but I've not ever heard or seen them exhibit a desire to be dominated, per se. Domination is done for the subordination of the ego, and these persons generally don't have an ego problem! LOL!
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: people who are into BDSM

        Wed, February 27, 2008 - 7:29 PM
        "I've known a few Venus in Pisces persons, and they may have a desire for their mate to take the lead in the relationship, but I've not ever heard or seen them exhibit a desire to be dominated, per se. Domination is done for the subordination of the ego, and these persons generally don't have an ego problem! LOL!"

        I'm a Pisces sun and also have Venus in Pisces and I love for the guy to take the lead in the relationship and in sex. I don't know if I like to be 'dominated' during sex... I love to be submissive though. I'm not sure if I understand the 'exact' meaning of 'domination' during sex though. If it just means the one dominating is the one in charge and taking control, then I love to be dominated lol. I like to be in charge once in a while too though :P
      • Re: people who are into BDSM

        Wed, February 27, 2008 - 11:27 PM
        I've got Venus in Pisces and I can't imagine anything more repellent or ... mood-killing for that matter ... than BDSM. Completely disruptive to the flow and fantasy of the moment.
  • Re: people who are into BDSM

    Thu, September 27, 2007 - 8:11 PM
    Venus square Mars. Pluto square ascendant. Moon conjunct Mars.

    Get me good and fired up, and with the right person, and I'll enforce so much manipulation it's not even funny, ending with a good round of BDSM. But, conversely, get me with the right type of other person...and I'll lie down at their feet for their use (Venus in Virgo). I can go either way, and others have stated that they like it when I'm in control - I have to admit the power is intoxicating, but...I'd rather someone else lead.
    • Re: people who are into BDSM

      Thu, September 27, 2007 - 10:54 PM
      Generally speaking, I would think that a boundage fetish would be indicated by Saturn aspects to personal planets. It might play out in various scenarios such as:

      Saturn in aspect to Venus: a desire to be restrained by the lover emotionally, socially, ie, dominant personality inhibiting other relationships. Is usually sought out to fulfill deep, unconscious desire of both to have security, stabilty, and faithfulness. Won't last unless growth is allowed. Can result in a permanent union once the adjustments are made.

      Saturn in aspect to Mars: a desire to be restrained sexually by the lover, ie, dominant personality inhibiting sexual outward expression of Mars. Is good for curbing infidelity brought on by a "roving libido," but can be unhealthy "damning" of the river of natural sexual energy necessary to fuel a healthy human. Sexuality needs to be channeled, not cut off. Can feel like castration of sexuality. Will eventually end in resentment if carried too far, and possibly erupt into violent lashback of Mars towards Saturn.

      Saturn in aspect to sun: a desire to be restrained by the the lover physically; literal restraint in the bedroom via fetishism. If both enjoy this sex-play then there is no harm, provided Saturn doesn't continue restraining the sun outside of the bedroom. Growth and personal expression is necessary for the sun and cannot be inhibited without an eventual showdown. Saturn will lose.

      Saturn in aspect to Mercury: a fantasy of restraint by the lover, ie,. scenarios of a dominant partner playing out in the mind only. This can become a wear down of the mental confidence of the Mercury partner and isn't welcome in the long run because it can become extremely debilitating and take a long time to recover from, and can result in a permanent lack of confidence in making decisions.

      S/M tendencies could be indicated by Pluto:

      Pluto in aspect to Venus: a desire for the partner to "take them" by forceful means of seduction and possesing them socially and emotionally. Could also play out that the Venus person desires to do this to their partner. Won't last unless it is a mutually agreed upon arrangement. Even then, the relationship dynamic must change and grow or they will blow apart due to sub-conscious pressure.

      Pluto in aspect to Mars: a desire for the partner or themselves to be sexually agressive in varying degrees of stimulation to elicit sexual submission. Can become violent due to sexually agressive nature and play out in rape fantasy sequences or literal rape.

      Pluto in aspect to sun: a desire to dominate or be dominated in total submission to the will of the partner or they to the sun person
      and involving varying degrees of humilation and punishment. Short lived arrangement due to the inherent transformational qualities of the planets involved. Deep seated resentment forces the will of the sun to reclaim its autonomy.

      Pluto in aspect to Mercury: a fantasy for domination of or to dominate the partner mentally and involving varying degrees of manipulation to exploit mental domination by means of breaking down resistance and exploiting weakness of the mind. Can be long-term and debilitating.
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: people who are into BDSM

        Thu, September 27, 2007 - 11:31 PM
        Sexy Saturn’s Holding Patterns

        Saturn symbolizes that psychological muscle for asserting effort, structure and persistence of pressure to hold and to keep things together amidst a world committed to falling apart. When Saturn is a strong force in any relationship, there are obvious holding patterns. When someone else’s natal Saturn closely aspects your natal Sun, Moon, Mars or Venus, their holding patterns are acting on you in specific ways. Their saturnine pressures may be forging a cohesion in a part of your life that’s falling apart at the seams; you may even like it and, maybe, like it a lot.

        These holding patterns can give you the feeling of being contained by your lover; this can be good or it can be very scary, depending on our needs. Often enough, harder Saturn aspects (squares, oppositions, conjunctions) between lovers can symbolize latent parent-child dynamics. Here gender is not as important as the ongoing exposure of immature, infantile need structures. One lover tends to play out the child aspect of their personality and the other, the adult or parent role.

        Saturn sex tests the integrity and staying power of any relationship. The lover who plays out the parental role may find him or herself holding the other to more responsibility than that person previously expressed. If one lover’s Saturn conjuncts or opposes the other’s Sun, the Sun person’s self-commitment and selfhood are tested. Sometime this holding pattern can be very exciting and hot, as when natal Mars is involved. Sometimes Saturn can make us feel very secure, especially when the Moon is involved. Other times, these same saturnine holding patterns can manifest as control trips and boundary disputes. With more responsibility, these same power trips can be played out on purpose in the sexual arena of ritual sadomasochism.

        Saturn as Dominatrix/Master

        With mutual consent, unconscious power-tripping can be transformed into power sex by the playful dramatization of scenarios involving various postures of trusting dominance and willing submission. Traditional S/M (sadomasochist) sex culture incorporates whips, chains, leathers and other sex toys for ritualized power sex games. And, power sex doesn’t exist without a dominatrix or master, and a slave. The masochistic slave and dominatrix, or master, agree on the saturnine game plans. Whether these introduce literal harnesses, chains and handcuffs or vocal commands, the "master" seeks to increase the "slave’s" experience of pleasure, pressure, intensified sensation and then, pain, inside a climate of total trust. This threshold of pain is relative to each slave and so the element of trust is paramount for respecting limitations.

        Though traditional S/M tribal sex culture relies on a vast array of ritual paraphernalia, none of it is necessary for power sex between consenting adults. The key element, is the trust between players and the ritual structure itself, which emerges with open expression of personal needs, fantasies and desires. Some of us have a greater need for being acted on by the saturnine holding pattern of another; others need to be the ones holding that power that acts on the other. As this sexual give-and-take process is openly explored, trust is built alongside a greater sexual self-knowledge and a truer understanding of the beloved’s sexual needs. Unfortunately, too many S/M rituals are acted out unconsciously whenever lovers avoid disclosing their actual power needs: to be dominated &/or, to dominate.

        Domestic violence demonstrates a horrific power sex game gone wrong as a result of communication breakdowns and the frustration of real needs. Unconscious S/M relationships are often doomed to tragic closure by mutual ignorance of power dynamics. Perhaps this kind of ignorance poisoned the roots of O.J. and Nicole Simpson’s marriage. Was there an undercurrent of sexual dominance and submission? I think so. Why else would so many Americans sit mesmerized by the media coverage? The violence? Maybe. A hidden, underlying subtext of power sex? More likely.

        Reverse the Roles, Save the Marriage

        When Mars, Moon, Sun and Venus are aspecting Saturn in the composite charts between lovers, it can indicate latent "power sex" dynamics in the relationship; latent because Saturn requires time to work itself out. Often enough, the more volatile and passionate relationships require a shared structure to continually stabilize itself. The greater the power dynamic, the more creative outlets are required to bypass self-destruction. Without outlets, the incumbent pressures mount. With no place to go, they can only implode and/or explode. As lovers grow more aware of their shared power struggles-by accepting them and structuring creative outlets for their safer expression-they can integrate difficult yet rewarding Saturn karma; perhaps work out at the gym together or take long walks or join a volleyball team or, play many, many sets of tennis.

        Saturn’s traditional exaltation in Libra suggests how these holding patters ultimately seek equilibrium (Libra) to restabilize. If either lover over identifies and fixates on one side of the dominant/submissive polarity, balance is lost. Identifying with one side of yourself creates a one-sided self-image and a kind of rigidity of ego. In any given relationship where dominant-submissive patterns prevail, it’s only a matter of time before roles get fixed and tensions start mounting. The passively identified grow more demure and meek; the dominantly identified, more aggressive and cruel. Sooner or later, these pressures force confrontations, outbursts and explosions. Violence erupts. If this is happening in your love life, perhaps you are ready for a little role reversal.

        The purpose of role reversal is to balance relationship energies and to create opportunities to see through the other’s eyes. This doesn’t mean the men wear bras and wash dishes but it might. Nor does it mean women wear the pants and take out the garbage but it might. If power-sex lovers cannot agree to walk in each other’s shoes once in a while, their relationship dynamic remains rigid and unstable. If domestic role reversals don’t work, try the bedroom. Let the old master become the new slave; the old slave, the new master. Excitement for role reversals can sometimes restore equilibrium.

        When lovers share strong Saturn aspects, their sex life and the relationship itself may require a consensual, or mutually agreed upon, structure to continue functioning. This kind of relationship is more like a mutually understood arrangement, than any attempt to realize or fantasize an ideal. This kind of effort requires considerable maturity, if only to get beyond our precious but mechanically conditioned ideals, if only to address the existing real needs of consenting adults.

        Sexual realities associated with the astrological forces of the Sun on out to and including Saturn represent an ego-based, or self-centered, approach to sexual satisfaction. The ego-personality develops through these stages and explores those sexual experiences furthering its own needs to know and express itself. Transpersonal sex, symbolized by Chiron, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, occurs when you are aroused by electrical, dreamtime and planetary forces expressing greater intentions than personal gratification. Forces are transpersonal when they originate beyond ego and become sexual by using the medium of your sexuality for expressing their intentions.


        excerpted from:
        www.verticalpool.com/astro4.html
        • Re: people who are into BDSM

          Fri, September 28, 2007 - 1:47 PM
          Very well written Sherpa.

          Thanks for this.

          Saturn is a major glue in relationships.

          i have seen more often than not that Saturn it is a more beneficial force when acting on a luminary, especially Man's Saturn, woman Moon or woman saturn, man Sun. Offering support.. Essentially it mirrors the opposite luminary - Saturn is the opposite of each luminary - opposite the Sun, as ruler of Aquaruis - and the Moon as ruler of Capricorn.

          When conjoined Mars or nodes or almost any other planet, i see the nature as being felt to be more prohibitive by one and creating fear in the Saturn person - yet also a powerful glue..

          again - well done
        • Re: people who are into BDSM

          Wed, February 27, 2008 - 9:04 PM
          My man's Capricorn Saturn conjunct moon, mine is Virgo Saturn trine moon. Both our moons are in Capricorn conjunct, orb 3 degrees. The mid point between both our moons is his Saturn which conjuncts his moon by 1 degree. My sun squares his Saturn, my Saturn opposes his Sun.

          Basically we derive our energy from powerplay even in verbal teasing (the undercurrent of teasing has always been about instigating jealousy or feigning indifference, etc, followed by smacking slapping or wide eyed intense stares and then loud laughter), but at the same time we allow ourselves to strategise and plan for the future and mundane arrangements which is required in a long term relationship.

          Both moons are also conjunct in his 4th house and because we have such Saturnine moons we are comfortable with routine and responsibility. Also he has mentioned that I am very much like his mother who he defines as a wildchild- earthmother stereotype who is into divination like tarot, wicca and astrology reflected in my 8th house stellium of the occult and magick. His Capricornian traits on the other hand echoes the Saturn in my 7th house, the older father figure that I could depend on and love as a marriage partner. He is 18 years older than me.

          Sexually, his Mars- Saturn- Moon in Capricorn sextiles my sexed up Uranus- Venus- Mars conjunct midheaven in Scorpio. I also like that his Neptune conjuncts my Scorpio stellium.

          He grounds and paces the wave upon wave of energy that I reverberate during intense moments during love- making but his Neptunian energy (emphasised by his Pisces Sun, and Neptune squares with Mars and Venus which often means falling in love with love) always makes our connection, inspite its intensity and electrical surges, softer and easy flowing at the end of the day.

          But he has yet to show me off :-) I suspect that it's time to exercise the exhibitionism of my sexy stellium in the 10th house.
    • Re: people who are into BDSM

      Fri, September 28, 2007 - 12:17 PM
      Also venus square uranus leads to unconventional sex.
      • Re: people who are into BDSM

        Fri, September 28, 2007 - 12:23 PM
        Or...Venus trine Uranus, which I have. I have the trine between Venus and Neptune, as well...makes for some interesting times...
        • b
          b
          offline 10

          Re: people who are into BDSM

          Fri, September 28, 2007 - 1:15 PM
          I'm surprised that Uranus hasn't been mentioned more in this thread. Although BDSM would traditonally be Pluto's realm, Uranus seems important because it's a more unconventional, daring form of sexuality... though it probably would account more for the short-term erotic affairs, and if Pluto/Saturn play a role, it could be like The Secretary or something.

          I don't have any BDSM tendencies, even though my venus is sextile pluto, square uranus and saturn, trine 8th house mars and neptune. AstrologyWeekly says I'm a slutty McSlut-slut.

          Here's my question: Uranus contacts strong Venus and Mars = promiscuity?
          • Unsu...
             

            Uranus, Brain Pleasure & Sex Magick

            Fri, September 28, 2007 - 1:45 PM
            Uranus represents electric sex. Electric sex hums throughout the subtle medium of our Central Nervous System (CNS), igniting the astral lightbody (aura & chakras). Psychic or electric sex occurs through physical love, but can also happen without touching. When the CNS is energetically on fire, sensuality transmutes into the supersensual brain pleasure of neurological orgasm. As the CNS becomes self-aware, lovers respond to the warm, glowing rushes of neuro-electronic signals racing within, around and between them.

            This electrical energy is enjoyed in extended moments of telepathy, clairvoyance, synchronicity and psychic abilities previously unimagined. Electric sex can also erupt, as if by accident. In the instance of spontaneous and wildly uninhibited physical sex, signals traverse between the brain and the rest of the body with less resistance and more speed.

            Electrical energy-more heat and more light-races through the muscles, giving the CNS more freedom of expression. Very Uranus. When lovers desire higher levels of electrical intimacy, what can possibly stop them from turning up the heat and the light? Ego. When either or both lovers need to slow things down, they often start acting out previously neurotic habits of self-preoccupation and the flow slows down.

            In this way, ego acts as a kind of emergency brake for minimizing pleasure too intense to contain. How much ecstasy can one allow? When our capacity for ecstasy is overwhelmed, it’s natural and even necessary to fixate on something as familiar, banal and mundane as our personal problems or to project these onto our lover. When lovers rise to the occasion of electric sex with less ego and more intention, they enter the esoteric traditions of sex magick.

            Occult lodges such as the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, the O.T.O. and their numerous offshoots practice their various ritual technologies for raising kundalini through electrical sex practices. One long-term effect of sex magick is the radical transformation of the CNS. In some sex magick adepts this change is so remarkable that, when compared to the majority of human beings, they seem like alien space beings. There’s probably good reason why these more esoteric magickal ritual disciplines remain esoteric or hidden from mainstream view. I suspect it’s because sex magick isn’t for everybody.


            excerpted from:
            PLANETARY FORCES AS SEXUAL REALITIES: Part 2
            www.verticalpool.com/astro4.html
            • b
              b
              offline 10

              Re: Uranus, Brain Pleasure & Sex Magick

              Fri, September 28, 2007 - 3:29 PM
              yah... okay. I've experienced something like that with the dude I mentioned in the mars/pluto thread. Clarovoyance, literally reading each others mind and dreams, one touch just on the fingertips suddenly sent such shock wave up the spine we jumped away from each other in suprise. haha... sex with uranus! :D

              though most of that excerpt sounded very.. how to say without being hypocritcal and insensitive... "new agey." where do you get this stuff sherpa?
              • Re: Uranus, Brain Pleasure & Sex Magick

                Fri, September 28, 2007 - 6:49 PM
                I figure that my Virgo Pluto, 6th house, sextile my Scorpio Venus, 8th helps to account for my talents as a switch...

                but I've also Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Jupiter, Neptune & Dark Moon Lilith in Scorpio, spanning the 7th & 8th houses
                all opposite Saturn conjunct Juno (who has been noted for her connection to power struggles in relationships) in Taurus, 2nd

                & Uranus conjunct Mars in Libra, 7th house adds "harmonizing through unconventional means" with my attraction towards eccentric men/partners

                sex has always held many layers of meaning, exploration, magic(k) & play for me & I've still barely scratched the surface :)

                love all-ways,
                mem
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: Uranus, Brain Pleasure & Sex Magick

                Fri, September 28, 2007 - 7:21 PM
                b --

                re: "where do you get this stuff sherpa?"

                where i get most of my "stuff" : direct experience and then, finding the words to convey that (the latter part being by far the more difficult.)
          • Re: people who are into BDSM

            Thu, February 28, 2008 - 5:48 AM
            Im a Uranus conjunct Mars and Venus person in Scorpio, so I exude this energy of sexual experimentation and knowingness. I was told that whoever I come into contact with tends to have an impression of my sexuality and not necessarily after the act itself. I am a very sexual person, but this has been played down because of my Saturn in the 7th house I suspect. I was also a late bloomer and the paramours I have had before could not believe that I had a prudish sex life lol.

            However I think that is all about to change. I am quite sure with my Saturn return in the 7th house lessons, I have a feeling that I will go through a rebirth in my sexuality in that I am able to relate that much more deeply with the man I am with.

            Unfortunately as well that the Venus and Mars in Scorpio makes me a possessive person or tend to attract people who are possessive of me (actually the latter is just a reflection of the former)
  • Re: people who are into BDSM

    Sat, September 29, 2007 - 8:50 PM
    Hi Chenae...
    How about Moon (imc opposite) and Pluto, intercepted no less, in 11th/5th? I have Cap on 8th - definitely 'late bloomer' - haven't kissed or been kissed- and Sat in 4th in Virgo. I have 'switching' fantasies, no rl experience. Also mars square Pluto (Pluto in 5th in libra), and Sun conjunct Mercury, Venus, Saturn, NN and lilth. Uranus Trine Venus, Mars and Mars sextile Venus, Sun.
    Jennifer
  • Re: people who are into BDSM

    Mon, October 1, 2007 - 11:04 AM
    Wow thank you everyone I love all of your insight and recommendations!
    • Re: people who are into BDSM

      Mon, October 1, 2007 - 7:53 PM
      this is a bit makin' me blush but...(lol)

      I am a total sex wierdo. One minute I'm all about "no sex without love" and the next I'm Mr. FreakyDeaky. I've been told I may owe that to my Venus in Aries conjunct Mars (also in Aries), but also perhaps my Uranus (5th) in opposition to my Sun. Finally, someone also said it might have to do with my Libra Pluto opp. Venus and my 8th House Aquarius.

      granted, at times I can be pretty detached, experimentive and almost philosophically odd and unemotional about sex. I wonder if that's reflective of that Aquarius 8th as well as Neptune in Sag.
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: people who are into BDSM

        Wed, February 27, 2008 - 12:44 PM
        I like this topic! I've always been curious about this myself and wondering what signs or charts were most likely into this stuff, and I don't know if my own is a reflection of interest as well, but I've always loved the idea of being sexually dominated by someone and am currently exploring my interest in this area.
  • Weirdo!

    Thu, October 4, 2007 - 12:49 PM
    On a scale, I'd say I lean more towards submissive, but it's definitely layered and varies depending on who I'm with. I love pleasing. I see it as an art and I aim to perfect it for each individual partner. I love the idea of my partner being intoxicated by me. It has it's own sort of power. I also find dominant physical and sexual behavior in my partner extremely erotic. Add in a little scintillating pain and every nerve in my body will be vibrating. I've also had relationships where aggression fed aggression and that can be great fun.

    I think I would attribute the drive to perfect pleasing to my Virgo Sun, which is trine Mars in Capricorn, possibly Jupiter in Pisces trine'ing (wide orb) my Venus in Scorpio. The power play - Venus and Pluto conjunct in Scorpio. It's quite visceral and cathartic. I'm not so sure about the electrifying pain. I would think something to do with Uranus or Mars. Mars semisextile Uranus? Sun square Uranus (also wide orb). Uranus conjunct DC? Liking more aggressive play could also be due to the Sun trine Mars, Sun and Pluto (again conjunct Venus) being in the 5th house, Mars in the 8th.



    • Re: Weirdo!

      Wed, February 27, 2008 - 12:21 PM
      good topic. maybe we can bring it back.

      i know someone who is really into it- Stellium in Gemini, Moon in Aquarius and Mars conjunct Saturn in Scorpio- he's a really hard worker too.

      also
      >>>Pluto in aspect to Venus: a desire for the partner to "take them" by forceful means of seduction and possesing them socially and emotionally. Could also play out that the Venus person desires to do this to their partner. Won't last unless it is a mutually agreed upon arrangement. Even then, the relationship dynamic must change and grow or they will blow apart due to sub-conscious pressure.


      really agree w this..
      • Re: Weirdo!

        Wed, February 27, 2008 - 1:10 PM
        can some one explain venus/mars- uranus contacts? im a bit confused.
        • Re: Weirdo!

          Wed, February 27, 2008 - 6:49 PM
          Jill said:
          "can some one explain venus/mars- uranus contacts? im a bit confused."

          Well, here are some "hypothetical scenarios" to ponder, generally speaking:

          When person A has any aspect in their natal chart from Venus to Mars and person B's Uranus activates one, or both person A's Venus, Mars, or the Venus/Mars midpoint, then the following could happen;
          - spontaneous sexual attraction with no expectations.pre-conceived notions, or inhibitions. (one-nights stands included), experimental sex
          - magnetic attraction, mental/physical, resulting in a mental fascination, and/or a sexual fixation
          - flighty relationships based on physical appearances, eccentricities, or "bad-boy/girl" relationships hastily made and disrupted due to outside influences that change quickly
          - sudden and intense interest in someone who is completely opposite of your own self-image
          - sudden interest to rebel against societal sexual norms with gusto, and public shows of affection,and,... whatever else defies convention
          - a burst of energy to take the lead in romance and try out your more creative and imaginative fantasies on for size
          - an intuitive sexual trust that this person will try anything, and you want to do just that with them!
          - a desire to challenge your new sexual interest to a game of "truth or dare!." but you don't care which one they choose! LOL!
          - a new found interest in "letting your hair down" with your new love/sexual interest. A sense of "live and let live,... and love!" fills you around them
          • Re: Weirdo!

            Wed, February 27, 2008 - 7:53 PM
            It doesn't necessarily have to be Venus- Uranus contacts. Venus in Aquarius and Uranus in the 5th, 11th, 7th houses could activate this.

            Uranus/ Venus contacts with either planet in 11th houses tend to indicate 'swinging' sex, several partners at one time usually among friends. There is emotional commitment in that everyone are friends and usually remain so for a long time.
          • Re: Weirdo!

            Thu, February 28, 2008 - 5:28 AM
            thanks deb & lady saber.. with my mars in the slow Cappy and pluto-venus contacts this short-term, flighty stuff still doesn't sound very hot to me- i guess that's what i was confused about - how it differed and yet was actually sexually stimulating. i still kinda feel that short lived, or image-based (like "you're a rebel") relationships are shallow and cant be all that gratifying - but i suppose thats how i stand in them. i do think i can understand how the "no expectations.pre-conceived notions, or inhibitions" is somewhat different from the approach of other planets- esp Neptune and Pluto- but still be very exciting.

            random question- the Aries venus people are one night lover types and the Saggy venus people I know are long distance, off and on lover types. these seem to go together. but Leo appears to be a very loyal and persistent sign - how does it get along with the other fire signs in love?

            • Re: Weirdo!

              Thu, February 28, 2008 - 3:52 PM
              Jill;

              I didn't imply that Aquarius and Uranus contacts ALWAYS result in flighty, superficial, or non-committed interactions, only that they CAN.

              Aquarius is a FIXED sign, but more aloof, emotionally. Uranus contacts usually brings about sudden changes, impulive actions, and "electric" contacts, but doesn't mean that you won't or can't commit to that person. Usually these "Uranus/Aquarius" types are just more "out-of-the-ordinary" type people FOR YOU, inspiring and/or challenge you to open your mind and see "the bigger picure," as far as relating goes. At the least, you will probably need to be more open minded and flexible with them, because THEY aren't going to change for YOU! LOL!

              But as far as loyalty goes, Aquarians are loyal in their own way. They are opposite Leo and as a fixed sign they tend to hang on to what matters most to them, whatever/whoever that may be. They just don't show their attachment in an emotional way.
              • Re: Weirdo!

                Thu, February 28, 2008 - 9:30 PM
                That is too true: "I didn't imply that Aquarius and Uranus contacts ALWAYS result in flighty, superficial, or non-committed interactions, only that they CAN."

                It's not just the sex fetish and multiple sex partners that Aquarian Venuses/ Uranian energies bring into your life but also a taste for something different.

                People with such placements tend to fall in love with people outside their own race and culture (say Japanese and African American, etc) or religion say a Muslim girl with a Wiccan boy, or to partake out of the ordinary love affairs; for instance what was intended to be a one night stand actually bloomed into a long term relationship, on an arduous train ride where the whole cabin speaks only Swahili and you fall in love with the only English -speaking guy there.

                Uranus also tends to bring flashes of deja vu, serendipity. Well that is if you believe that everthing happens for a reason and there's no such thing as chance.
              • Re: Weirdo!

                Fri, February 29, 2008 - 10:35 AM
                thanks for the responses deb and Lady Saber.. that makes a lotta sense. im curious about this

                >>>>But as far as loyalty goes, Aquarians are loyal in their own way. They are opposite Leo and as a fixed sign they tend to hang on to what matters most to them, whatever/whoever that may be. They just don't show their attachment in an emotional way.

                what is Aquarian loyalty and what makes them an "opposite Leo" (do you mean whereas Leos show their attachment in an emotional way, Aquas don't? what way do they show it in, considering they are oft termed as "detached"?)
                • Re: Weirdo!

                  Fri, February 29, 2008 - 4:30 PM
                  What makes Leo opposite Aquarius is that they are opposite in the zodiac; natural houses 5-11.
                  What makes them "similar," is their fixed quality, being the modality of the sign they are in the zodiacal progression;
                  cardinal, fixed, mutable, respectively.

                  Regarding possible sun sign motivations for attachments with these two:

                  Leo forms attachments to whatever/whoever reinforces his ego, increases his generosity, expands his creativity, authority, and/or personal magnetism, invigorates his vitality, generates affection, love, and friendship, activates or frees his "inner child," increases his personal influence, improves his personal image, involves him intimately or romantically, or gives him pleasure.

                  Aquarius forms attachments to whatever/whoever activates or frees his individuality, expands his personal autonomy, stimulates his mind or imagination, intrigues his curiousity, enlarges his understanding of "the big picture,", inspires and engages his sense of purposeful involvement in finding ways to improve the condition of the planet, whether human, animal, society, government, environmental, or special groups, intriques and stimulates his pleasure senses, increases his social network, or increases his understanding of the bettering the future.

                  Admittedly, these are only the "positive" expressions of the above interpretations. I try to be optomistic in my comments, but acknowledge that I am an avowed idealist. LOL! Rose-colored glasses, included. If anyone wants or needs to comment on the more "negative" possibilities then I would also address them. Until then,... here's to hoping there is no need.

                  - Deb

      • Re: Weirdo!

        Wed, February 27, 2008 - 1:13 PM
        >>Finally, someone also said it might have to do with my Libra Pluto opp. Venus ...

        I'm the same way and have the same opposition. Our problem is that we blow hot and cold (in sex, wavering between determined love relationships and just wanting cold, hard sex), tend to be sex maniacs (to the point of unhealthy obsession), and far too aggressive for most partners.

        Tis a heavy burden we carry....
        • Re: Weirdo!

          Wed, February 27, 2008 - 7:47 PM
          LOL Pluto opposite Venus here and I tend to scare those who get involved with me (their words, not mine!) lol
          And I'm not even into anything weird or excessively kinky!
          • Re: Weirdo!

            Thu, February 28, 2008 - 11:56 AM
            ME TOO! They don't have to actually say they're afraid (I tend to date people who wouldn't admit such a thing), but I can see it when I'll spastically say something that freaks them out (seriously, ANYTHING at all seems to freak them out. I once said, 'I wanted you to pay attention to me!' and it totally set him off.)

            It's a bit of a bummer. I pine for a cozy, long term relationship,but my venus is in Aries, and true to it, I tend to have many, many 2 weeks-6 month long relationships. It's exhausting to invest my whole heart in man after man, only to have it dashed so quickly in. But not only that, but the whole sex crazed maniac thing, and due to propriety, I can't exactly proposition every hot man I see, much as I would like to. I even exhausted my old kinky scorpio lover- poor thing. He had to set limits to how many times he'd have sex in a day. And he required 3 hours in between at least, which annoyed me, to say the least.
        • Re: Weirdo!

          Wed, February 27, 2008 - 11:25 PM
          Oh yeah, and it's like (at least for me personally) I can give all of myself to just one lover, but it must be the absolute ideal I'm waiting for, and if he doesn't come on with all that I am..subconsciously asking of him which so often is complicated by direct demands, I'll just wait until he's ready for all that I have been waiting myself to give him. I consider myself pure by ways of conviction. But some ppl just wouldn't agree. Absolute devotion to the soul can corrupt all parts of life if not handled properly....

          It is a heavy burden. The element of power is always there but which hands put in is a huge matter. I rely on self-preservation, with a pinch of lust to keep me on the right path. And trust is key.. There is that someone who knows a way into my heart. When he finds it I expect to realise much more about myself in terms of pain / pleasure. Pain does not equal pleasure... it's a beautiful exchange of give and take. No more and no less on either end.

          I would think my fantasy about bdsm in love has something to do with Venus opp Pluto (aries/scorpio) and Mars opp. Neptune making a "mystic rectangle" and Pluto at the I.C. Besides that, probably Capricorn moon and Jupiter at 7th.

          ~Peace
          Jess
      • Re: Weirdo!

        Wed, February 27, 2008 - 8:06 PM
        I wish I knew more of their charts and not just Sun signs, but a lot of the folks I know who are pretty into BDSM have their Suns in any of the Air signs or in Leo. I also know a few Capricorn Suns (one of whom has a lot in Gemini and Leo, as well), and some people with some Scorpio stuff. It really surprised me how many people in a particular scene are Air sign Suns, though, and how many dominatrixes I've met are Leo Suns. I am interested in BDSM and have Mars in 8th House Capricorn conjunct Neptune (both squaring Mercury), Saturn trine Mercury and on my Descendant, Uranus in my 7th House, a Scorpio Moon, and Pluto opposite my Sun (among other things, of course). I tend to be submissive and masochistic. I definitely feel that a lot of my desire to be controlled comes from Saturn/my Cap Mars, and the more masochistic stuff is Plutonian (in keeping with much of what's already been more thoroughly and articulately expressed on here!).
        • Unsu...
           

          Saturn as Dominatrix/Master

          Wed, February 27, 2008 - 8:45 PM
          With mutual consent, unconscious power-tripping can be transformed into power sex by the playful dramatization of scenarios involving various postures of trusting dominance and willing submission. Traditional S/M (sadomasochist) sex culture incorporates whips, chains, leathers and other sex toys for ritualized power sex games. And, power sex doesn’t exist without a dominatrix or master, and a slave. The masochistic slave and dominatrix, or master, agree on the saturnine game plans. Whether these introduce literal harnesses, chains and handcuffs or vocal commands, the "master" seeks to increase the "slave’s" experience of pleasure, pressure, intensified sensation and then, pain, inside a climate of total trust. This threshold of pain is relative to each slave and so the element of trust is paramount for respecting limitations.

          Though traditional S/M tribal sex culture relies on a vast array of ritual paraphernalia, none of it is necessary for power sex between consenting adults. The key element, is the trust between players and the ritual structure itself, which emerges with open expression of personal needs, fantasies and desires. Some of us have a greater need for being acted on by the saturnine holding pattern of another; others need to be the ones holding that power that acts on the other. As this sexual give-and-take process is openly explored, trust is built alongside a greater sexual self-knowledge and a truer understanding of the beloved’s sexual needs. Unfortunately, too many S/M rituals are acted out unconsciously whenever lovers avoid disclosing their actual power needs: to be dominated &/or, to dominate.

          Domestic violence demonstrates a horrific power sex game gone wrong as a result of communication breakdowns and the frustration of real needs. Unconscious S/M relationships are often doomed to tragic closure by mutual ignorance of power dynamics. Perhaps this kind of ignorance poisoned the roots of O.J. and Nicole Simpson’s marriage. Was there an undercurrent of sexual dominance and submission? I think so. Why else would so many Americans sit mesmerized by the media coverage? The violence? Maybe. A hidden, underlying subtext of power sex? More likely.

          When Mars, Moon, Sun and Venus are aspecting Saturn in the composite charts between lovers, it can indicate latent "power sex" dynamics in the relationship; latent because Saturn requires time to work itself out. Often enough, the more volatile and passionate relationships require a shared structure to continually stabilize itself. The greater the power dynamic, the more creative outlets are required to bypass self-destruction. Without outlets, the incumbent pressures mount. With no place to go, they can only implode and/or explode. As lovers grow more aware of their shared power struggles-by accepting them and structuring creative outlets for their safer expression-they can integrate difficult yet rewarding Saturn karma; perhaps work out at the gym together or take long walks or join a volleyball team or, play many, many sets of tennis.

          Saturn’s traditional exaltation in Libra suggests how these holding patters ultimately seek equilibrium (Libra) to restabilize. If either lover over identifies and fixates on one side of the dominant/submissive polarity, balance is lost. Identifying with one side of yourself creates a one-sided self-image and a kind of rigidity of ego. In any given relationship where dominant-submissive patterns prevail, it’s only a matter of time before roles get fixed and tensions start mounting. The passively identified grow more demure and meek; the dominantly identified, more aggressive and cruel. Sooner or later, these pressures force confrontations, outbursts and explosions. Violence erupts. If this is happening in your love life, perhaps you are ready for a little role reversal.

          The purpose of role reversal is to balance relationship energies and to create opportunities to see through the other’s eyes. This doesn’t mean the men wear bras and wash dishes but it might. Nor does it mean women wear the pants and take out the garbage but it might. If power-sex lovers cannot agree to walk in each other’s shoes once in a while, their relationship dynamic remains rigid and unstable. If domestic role reversals don’t work, try the bedroom. Let the old master become the new slave; the old slave, the new master. Excitement for role reversals can sometimes restore equilibrium.

          When lovers share strong Saturn aspects, their sex life and the relationship itself may require a consensual, or mutually agreed upon, structure to continue functioning. This kind of relationship is more like a mutually understood arrangement, than any attempt to realize or fantasize an ideal. This kind of effort requires considerable maturity, if only to get beyond our precious but mechanically conditioned ideals, if only to address the existing real needs of consenting adults.

          Sexual realities associated with the astrological forces of the Sun on out to and including Saturn represent an ego-based, or self-centered, approach to sexual satisfaction. The ego-personality develops through these stages and explores those sexual experiences furthering its own needs to know and express itself. Transpersonal sex, symbolized by Chiron, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, occurs when you are aroused by electrical, dreamtime and planetary forces expressing greater intentions than personal gratification. Forces are transpersonal when they originate beyond ego and become sexual by using the medium of your sexuality for expressing their intentions.

          excerped from "Planetary Forces as Sexual Realities"
          www.verticalpool.com/astro4.html
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: Saturn as Dominatrix/Master

            Wed, February 27, 2008 - 8:48 PM
            My apologies everyone for posting a section of this SATURN piece twice. I blame transitting Saturn which now conjuncts my natal 9th House Moon exactly and has gifted me with brain fog.
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: Saturn as Dominatrix/Master

              Thu, February 28, 2008 - 6:22 AM
              I've got Venus trine Saturn, and in mutual reception. Someone once told me that it could indicate an interest in BDSM. Not for me. Doesn't do much for me. I would say I'm pretty adventurous, but that's just not my thing.
              I've heard about the 8th house stuff indicating unusual sexual predilections etc. (I've got a nice stellium in the 8th) I'd think it would be a matter of perspective as to whether something is "kinky" or not. I think I have a fairly solid interest in sex, although sometimes I've wondered if I'm too sexual.
              BDSM, I'd think would be more of a power trip, than a sexual one. Not knowing anything about that world, I'm just speculating.
              Saturn gets such a bad rap...to think it might indicate some "kinkiness" is kind of funny.
              Cool thread.

              Peace, Bo
              • Unsu...
                 

                sherpa's confession

                Thu, February 28, 2008 - 10:12 AM
                I love to write about all kinds of things that are not always about me. I learn a lot more that way. Personally, I am not into BDSM myself though I do find the exotic customs and rituals of sexual diversity fascinating. Maybe this has something to do with my 8th House ruled by Gemini. And, oh yea, I am Scorpio Sun conjunct Scorpio ASC (Sun in 12th House). OK, confession time. When it comes to sexuality, I am an old fashioned flaming hetero serial monogamist. How boring is that ?
                • Re: sherpa's confession

                  Thu, February 28, 2008 - 2:07 PM
                  Ha! Boooring! No, not at all, actually. I think it's only boring when it feels forced, being the default/norm (like someone never though of other options and would prefer them, if they had).

                  An 8th House-ruled Gemini does seem like it would lean towards entertaining those thoughts. Also on the topic of Air signs... since Air sign folks tend to be interested in and comfortable with thinking about a variety of concepts, that this might make some of them more comfortable wth kink - in theory, at least - because they are intrigued by the notion of it. A lot of the Air sign folks I know from the kink world don't seem to participate as much as some Leo/Scorpio/Capricorn folks do, but hang around and observe and have fun. It seems like they are interested in what is taking place, but can be happy leaving it at that, much of the time - like it's more of an intellectual stimulation than a passion or compulsion or desire. Just some speculation on why I see so many Air signs floating around in that world... But, of course, this is all generalizing to Sun Signs. The Capricorn/Gemini/Leo friend I mentioned certainly discusses kink openly and with a lot of intellectual curiosity and analysis, but she seems quite compelled by it on another level, as well (and I forgot that she has some intense Scorpio stuff, too).

                  I love that Saturn is so wrapped up in BDSM, personally! The controlling task-mistress? That's my fantasy, man. It's also my inner-self, I think, but inverted... I'm controlling myself intensely, all the time - especially my aggression, sexuality, and emotions. Through BDSM, I can let someone else break through that ridiculously solid shell for a while and take the control away from me. It's allowing something external - in a contained, safe situation - to be the one to control me and to hurt me (more on the Pluto side, there - switching self-harm to external harm). I think it's helped me to get to loosen up a little and to get over some damaging urges and tendencies.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: sherpa's confession

                    Thu, February 28, 2008 - 3:47 PM
                    I've never done any bondage before but I have been thinking about it abit lately and it is deffinantly on the agenda for the next girl that I am with!

                    OK, so I have venus in the 8th house of Gemini, sextile to my Uranus/Midheaven and Venus is sextile to Mercury which is trine to my Uranus/MH. And so what if Venus is the ruler of my 7th house Sun! Lol And just because transiting Uranus is square my 8th house Venus and progressed venus is conjuct my natal Uranus/ MH right now, that don't mean nothin'.

                    I am not into pain, neither would I be able to cause pain to a woman more than perhaps swatting her on the butt in a playful way. If she was into pain, the farthest I would be able to go is to maybe drip some hot wax on her, (as that is mild} but only if that caused her pleasure and she was into that sort of thing.

                    I was taught long ago by my father to never hurt a woman and because of my Mars trine Neptune/ Asc, I bond too easily with the one that I am with and I can feel their pain or pleasure in a psychic link sort of way. It is like a religous experience with me when I am with a woman with the Taurus sensuality and the Scorpio passion. I would prefer to tie them down and inflict intense pleasure upon them, repeatedly, hehe. I derive great pleasure by giving pleasure, and watching their toes curl, their back arch, and their eyes go back into their head before they explode, then enjoy that look in their eyes, like they are in lala land trying to regain perspective of where they are at.

                    I would enjoy the idea of tying them down and giving them multiples till they just couldn't take any more (then one more for good measure) :) and the thought of also using toys or whatever to increase the fun is appealing to me. I already tell them that if they don'y have a few hoursto play , ain't nothing gonna happen.

                    But as far as me playing the submissive role, sorry, I am too dominant in the bedroom and besides I don't trust you sadistic girls.

                    Too bad you naughty girls are so far away :(
                    • Unsu...
                       

                      Re: sherpa's confession

                      Thu, February 28, 2008 - 10:52 PM
                      "I would enjoy the idea of tying them down and giving them multiples till they just couldn't take any more (then one more for good measure) :) and the thought of also using toys or whatever to increase the fun is appealing to me. I already tell them that if they don'y have a few hoursto play , ain't nothing gonna happen.

                      But as far as me playing the submissive role, sorry, I am too dominant in the bedroom and besides I don't trust you sadistic girls. "

                      Wow that sounds fun :D And I love/prefer dominant men too :)
            • Re: Saturn as Dominatrix/Master

              Thu, February 28, 2008 - 11:14 PM
              Unfortunately, too many S/M rituals are acted out unconsciously whenever lovers avoid disclosing their actual power needs: to be dominated &/or, to dominate.
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

              worth repeating

              love all-ways,
              mem
              • Re: Saturn as Dominatrix/Master

                Thu, February 28, 2008 - 11:24 PM
                ps ~ I make my "emotional issues" work for me & get the most pleasure I can out of them, while I still can ~ if my chosen therapy works through one of my emotional issues/wounds to the point where I can't squeeze anything more out of it (it heals) ~ there is undoubtedly a more obscure & deeper issue waiting just under the last, for when I'm ready to take it on ~ with no end to the process in sight, I'm proud of my "emotional issues" ~ keeping me engaged & delighted with my unique life
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Weirdo!

          Thu, February 28, 2008 - 5:38 PM
          Roth,

          Yeah, I've known quite a few people now with air signs who are into BDSM and are into being dominant, as well as Leos from the fire signs. I don't think I know a lot of water or earth signs though.

          Also, does having a Cappy moon possibly count for lack of being Cappy sun?
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: Weirdo!

            Thu, February 28, 2008 - 5:44 PM
            My Venus is Gemini, and I would think that we would like one-night stands too, but that's never been appealing or interesting to me. I really can't get with the idea of getting with someone like that and not really knowing them or if I even like them. It would just feel wrong make the experience feel cheap.


            Lexie,

            If you want a real man and one who's dominant or takes the initiative, you need to go the south or the east coast. There are real men there and not momma's boys. They'll definitely let you know they like you and you don't have to do much of the work there.
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: Weirdo!

              Thu, February 28, 2008 - 5:44 PM
              My Saturn is in Virgo...does that count? LOL
            • Re: Weirdo!

              Thu, February 28, 2008 - 6:28 PM
              Don't I know it! I moved here from Florida a couple years ago, and honestly I miss the flat-out sexual attention. Up here, the only indication that a man might find you attractive is a sly, sideways look that you'll miss if you blink.

              Abstinence is horror.
              • Re: Weirdo!

                Thu, February 28, 2008 - 6:49 PM
                I was surprised when I went into the Pisces tribe this week and read how many of them were into being tied-up and submissive. Fits right into their martyr role.
                I bet Uranus passing through Pisces right now even activates that even more.
                • Re: Weirdo!

                  Thu, February 28, 2008 - 7:39 PM
                  I think often times it's what the submissive or dominant is lacking that makes them into BDSM. It all depends on the person but usually submissives are afraid of taking control of their life. Their ego wants to continue making them feel like a victim and they subconsciously seek someone that belittles them so they don't have to hurt themselves.

                  ... And most Dominants are using power and control of their submissive to feel more masculine. They usually have major insecurities and are making up for them.

                  This is all based on personal experience. As a Scorpio, I can easily see through people and get the big picture.

                  With that being said, Scorpio's and Scorpio ascendants love power control games.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: Weirdo!

                    Thu, February 28, 2008 - 7:53 PM
                    re: " often times it's what the submissive or dominant is lacking that makes them into BDSM. "

                    I agree. I bet some submissives have also endured early childhood abuse, sexual and/or otherwise, that conditioned them to associate submission (and sometimes, pain) with sex and/or the reward of gaining trust. I think the experience of total trust must play a central role in the healthy dom/slave dynamic.
                    • Re: Weirdo!

                      Thu, February 28, 2008 - 9:10 PM
                      Sherpa

                      Some people need pain, denial, submission, humiliation, etc for no other reason other than it makes them feel alive.
                    • Re: Weirdo!

                      Sat, March 1, 2008 - 11:25 PM
                      Actually there are a lot of websites that talks about FANTASY rape-role play therapy. A lot of women who have been raped act out FANTASY rape-role plays. The difference between these and BDSM and ACTUAL abuse and rape is that these people have the power in these relationships (even if they're a sub in a BDSM relationship) because they initiate and plan the experience.

                      Somehow with these rape victims these role plays provide them healing. Perhaps processing their experience by "reliving" them in this self focused/initiated way helps them regain personal power and safety, not hate men/sex, who knows. Most try to make the experience as real as possible so that it is more healing. Many agree that the experience can only be stopped by uttering a code word or words. This goes for those who haven't been raped in the past as well since many people like this kind of role play.

                      When you're actually abused or raped you do not have a say, you do not have code words. It is like if you are stabbed or shot or have your wallet stolen. When is the last time you negotiated with a drive by shooter to come by at a certain time when you're waiting for the bus or driving or riding a bike and shoot you?? When is the last time you set up a verbal contract with some smelly disgusting creep to rape you?

                      Most of these relationships are healthy because they are about mutual agreement. Anything else is not really BDSM, its abuse. A lot of people who were in abusive relationships and enter a BDSM relationship realize that they have certain needs that they weren't paying attention to or fulfilling and so others were coming in and misinterpreting these needs for selfish benefits. Once these abuse victims become more aware of themselves they got into a healthy relationship that allowed the sexual/emotional outlet that they were in need of.

                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Weirdo!

                    Thu, February 28, 2008 - 8:44 PM
                    "...It all depends on the person but usually submissives are afraid of taking control of their life. Their ego wants to continue making them feel like a victim and they subconsciously seek someone that belittles them so they don't have to hurt themselves.
                    ... And most Dominants are using power and control of their submissive to feel more masculine. They usually have major insecurities and are making up for them..."

                    The friends of mine who are into BDSM do not fit this description at all. Plus, I know some men who have major insecurities, and they don't even like to initiate. There might be some other factor creating this pull towards BDSM...... While I enjoy being submissive, I'm not into pain, nor do I need to feel like a victim, but I do love a domineering man. Men can be domineering without being a brute, without being disrespectful....and when it's mutual agreement, some guys really enjoy taking charge. It doesn't really mean "control" if the couple believes this is what works for them. As a poster here has mentioned before, occasionaly the partners may switch roles to balance things out. The power goes back and forth. And even though I really like being submissive, I often initiate or take the lead when I know my partner doesn't want to. I know the topic here is BDSM...... but I know plenty of females who enjoy the submissive role without it going into BDSM.

                    Which leads me to ask the same question........what pushes someone over that boundary line into BDSM? I, myself, couldn't get into that, except for a little tying up. And in the case of tying up, I would turn into the initiator.
                    But that's because I like to tease the heck out of my partner. heh heh
                    • Unsu...
                       

                      Re: Weirdo!

                      Thu, February 28, 2008 - 9:35 PM
                      Ummm...Kimberly and Sherpa,

                      As a person who's actually experienced certain things and who has become more involved in the community, much of your assumptions are incorrect and inaccurate.

                      I admit, when I first started talking to people and going to events and stuff, I didn't know what to expect, and I thought I'd meet a bunch of dysfunctional, emotionally/mentally disturbed people.

                      Now, granted there ARE people who are into BDSM that do have these issues, but there are just as many people if not more that don't practice BDSM that have these issues as well. And there are many people (men and women) who fantasize about certain D/s acts that are repressed and afraid to explore those areas and keep them locked away out of guilt, shame, fear, and embarrassment and assumptions being made just like the ones you two did.

                      And I think it's rather unfair to stereotype and to assume that someone has an emotional issue because they like certain types of sexual acts.

                      The majority of people I've met who are into BDSM and practice it are regular, talented, stable, and interesting people like everyone else, and the majority of people do not live their lives on it 24/7, but have many other outside interests. Also, a majority of people out there like SOME sort of act that may be related to BDSM even if they don't fully participate in it, whether it's spanking, being handcuffed or blind folded, or use of wax or whatever. Majority of so-called "vanilla" people (and I hate to use that word), like/fantasize or have done some sort of BDSM related activity. Also, it's quite common amongst most women to have fantasies of rape or of being overpowered. I don't think that makes them emotionally dysfunctional or abused because many of these women are everyday, regularly functioning people.
                      • Unsu...
                         

                        Re: Weirdo!

                        Thu, February 28, 2008 - 9:40 PM
                        I think it's fucked up and shows how limited people's thinking is when it comes to expressing one's idea of eroticism and sensuality and sexuality. It really shows how repressed and unaccepting and close-minded people are of other's interests when they make comments like that. I don't think people who don't practice certain acts are or of a certain sexuality want to be judged anymore than those that do. I hate seeing this type of limited mindset whether it's from alternative people or non-alternative people. No one has a right to judge anyone for what they do behind closed doors so long as it's amongst CONSENTING ADULTS (i.e. not children or minors, animals, etc.)
                        • Unsu...
                           

                          I became normal by fulfilling my fantasies

                          Thu, February 28, 2008 - 10:20 PM
                          Aprilbaby

                          I feel misunderstood.

                          I understand your reactions to what you perceive as my limited mindset around other people's sexual realities. Who's to judge, right ? Not me. Not intended that way. My comments reflected how some people -- not all people -- go into BDSM to heal childhood traumas which can be a good & wise thing. I know this happens for a fact from close friends who have confided in me.

                          I can also understand how many people into BDSM become totally well-adjusted by fulfilling their fantasies. I think people become 'normal' by realizing their dreams. The only difference between my fantasies and BDSM is mine are more about filmmaking than about sex.

                          I also use filmmaking to heal my emotional and psychic wounds. In fact, my cinema fetish began with the emotionally damaging trauma of the death of my young daughter, a real shocker that forever transformed the way I see myself and the world. I did not know it would push me so deeply into filmmaking (15 years now) but it did and I am grateful for the gift it has given me for making my dreams come true.
                          • Unsu...
                             

                            Re: I became normal by fulfilling my fantasies

                            Fri, February 29, 2008 - 10:07 AM
                            sherpa,

                            Wow, I'm very very sorry to hear about you losing your daughter. That can certainly be a very painful and intense experience for anyone to go through, and I'm glad you found a healthy outlet that's allowed you to heal and also be inspired and has been really meaningful for you. I appreciate you sharing such a personal thing.

                            Thank you for clarifying what you meant as well and where you were coming from on that. I appreciate that as well. As I mentioned before, I am aware that that there are people who go into BDSM as a way to heal past hurts and emotions. I've also heard directly from certain people their reasons behind it, and I'm not entirely sure I think it's the best way to go and get over something, but that's just me. I'm not a professional therapist or anything and I'm not those people to know what works for them.

                            However, the more people I talk with I find out that they are simply into kinky sex and have found something that they love doing like any other interest/hobby/passion, and they've sort of cultivated it and made it an art form. Which to me it is just like sex is in general to me an art form in a way of expressing oneself and one's idea of pleasure and what's pleasing to the senses. I can say for myself that I didn't come to explore BDSM as way of healing anything or having been emotionally traumatized. I've not been emotionally traumatized and I think I have a pretty healthy emotional/mental outlook on things. My personal interest relates to being a child and always having fantasies about being overpowered and captured and it just evolved into wanting and longing for other things. I didn't know there was an actual meaning or word for my fantasies until much later on, and the only reason it ever took me so long to wanna actively explore is out of fear and embarrassment or being disappointed that the reality isn't like the fantasy.

                            Also, there are so many different ways that BDSM and D/s relationships play out....no two are really alike, and not everyone is into pain or humiliation or use of toys and leather. Many do incorporate those aspects, but there are also many who don't enjoy pain or certain other things and they don't practice it. Mainly the relationships are what the people involved agree to, but the basic principals and foundations behind it are the same: SAFE, SANE, AND CONSENTUAL.

                            These three principals are EXTREMELY important in the community, and so is respect and good communication between partners. So, you can't have a bunch of unstable people running around and irresponsibly acting out their fantasies otherwise it all falls apart and you wouldn't have many people participating in the community and that community growing and flourishing if they didn't think it was safe and there was high accountability for one's actions. I mean, I think the unfortunate part is that there is much more respect and trust and communication involved in the BDSM world than there is in "vanilla" society where people cheat and hide their desires and act all passive-aggressive.

                            The other thing is that people have to gain technique and real skill in handling certain toys and to know where to use them on the body and how hard to hit otherwise they could end up seriously injuring the person. It is the responsibility of all involved to be exact and clear about their expectations and what they want, and anyone who ends up violating anyone's rights or the rules set out gets ostracized and kicked out and known for being unsafe, etc.
                            • Re: I became normal by fulfilling my fantasies

                              Fri, February 29, 2008 - 1:56 PM
                              April -
                              I have been impressed, myself, at the people I've met in the BDSM community have been so generally kind, welcoming, respectful, and excellent at communicating. It's really exciting and refreshing to be involved with a group of people who behave this way, and who are so direct. I've had only good experiences, thus far, within the community (regardless how people behave outside it, which I don't know about for many, and don't really need to).

                              I do have to say that I have felt that being a part of these things has been healing, but not from specific moments of being wounded so much as from some self-inflicted emotional pressures and anxieties. But that's just me, of course! Everyone's different.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Weirdo!

                    Thu, February 28, 2008 - 9:01 PM
                    I don't think so, Kimberly the first two paragraphs of what you have just said.

                    I have however seen how some submissives remain in that subspace even after play is over. It is one thing to be able to completely submit but it is another challenge to reclaim the self when play is over and carry on a normal life. I think the challenge for people in D/s (experienced or not does not matter, because it's a different ballgame everytime a threshold is breached) is that play world is not reality. When the lines blur it becomes a problem like when subs don't reclaim themselves properly.

                    When the subs don't reclaim themselves properly, they tend to be somewhat co-dependent on their tops and shirk responsibility for themselves. It is not unheard of for people in such relationships to get possessive.
            • Re: Weirdo!

              Thu, February 28, 2008 - 10:34 PM
              April -
              That's interesting that you aren't interested in one-night stands. I have a few friends with Venus in Gemini, and this seems pretty true for them, for the most part - from what I know, at least. Most of them are in or are exclusively seeking out relationships with long-term, and monogamous, potential. One friend has had some one-night stands, but she's seemed to regret them. I wonder how Venus in Gemini usually operates. I wonder if finding a lot of variety within one person is important, or if there might be interest in a variety of different types of people. I know one of them (also with a Gemini Mars) was really into kink and sexual experimentation at one point, but she's decided that she just wants to do monogamous relationships, new.

              I would also think, with my Venus being in Taurus, that I would be exclusively interested in relationships with long-term potential - and I am interested in them, certainly - but I am also perfectly happy just hookin' up, and don't regret doing so. I'd like to date someone, if the chance presented itself, but I am also just interested in getting whatever I can with whoever, right now, which I realize sounds awfully slutty... I'm a bit shallower, in terms of physical appearance, than my Venus-in-Gemini friends I was talking about earlier, also. They are primarily attracted based on intellect/common interests/mental stuff, and I am to, certainly, but I can be totally into getting with someone who I don't communicate with at all, solely based on physical qualities and the fact that they're there and available and interested. At the same time, I can hold out for long stretches without anything sexual (years, in fact... though I'm not actually happy doing this). And once I do get to know someone, I tend to want more of a relationship and more guarantee that they'll be around a while (in any form, even if it's platonic). But I can totally go for something that's just a one-shot deal, and be happy with it as such.

              Anyhow! Too much writing and not enough organized thoughts. Hopefully something in that text-vomit will make sense.
              • Re: Weirdo!

                Fri, February 29, 2008 - 5:34 AM
                >>I'd like to date someone, if the chance presented itself, but I am also just interested in getting whatever I can with whoever, right now, which I realize sounds awfully slutty...

                EX-FREAKING-XACTLY! It's like there are levels. If the guy is fabulous, I want him to be mine forever, right away. If he's good looking but stupid, I want to take him to bed and keep him on call. If we click even though there's not much appealing about him, I'll take him for the night. What I can get is typically ok, though I won't go with whoever shows up, you know?

                And a bit of a ways up- I agree. I'm submissive, but I don't enjoy being degraded. There's a point when otherwise thrilling sex play turns into something a little more real and sinister, and that's when I'm out of there. When someone seeks to turn me into a non human in any situation, I bolt.
                • Re: Weirdo!

                  Fri, February 29, 2008 - 5:56 AM
                  My input was all based on personal experience. My perception is most likely different from everyone elses. That doesn't make anyone wrong or right... but I do think that there are times when the ego takes over and it can lead to unstable BDSM relationships. I do agree that submissives also have a history of abuse or incest. Some cut, have eating disorders or abuse drugs and alcohol. I think overall they're often trying to strengthen their sense of self.

                  But... then again that's my "perception." That's what I've discovered through myself and others through personal experience. I'm not assuming anything. Nobody knows the entire truth. I'm sure there are successful, loving BDSM relationships. And that's awesome :)

                  Great topic :)
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Re: Weirdo!

                  Fri, February 29, 2008 - 6:16 AM
                  "And a bit of a ways up- I agree. I'm submissive, but I don't enjoy being degraded. There's a point when otherwise thrilling sex play turns into something a little more real and sinister, and that's when I'm out of there. When someone seeks to turn me into a non human in any situation, I bolt."

                  Exactly.. I'm submissive too, but it doesn't mean I want to be degraded. I like to feel like the guy's in control, but not being harsh or uncaring. And I'm submissive by nature, as in I believe that the man's the 'head of the house' in the family (I was raised that way), but in no way do I think it's ok for a man to be abusive or controlling to his wife or gf (or any woman), he needs to treat her as an equal and with love and respect.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Weirdo!

                    Fri, February 29, 2008 - 6:20 AM
                    I suppose something should be clarified. BDSM, to me, is a sort of sex play. It seems some people take it as a lifestyle- it may be but I've never met anyone who just stayed in that role inside and outside the bedroom.

                    Outside the bedroom, I want the control. Inside, i give it up. It's a pleasant role reversal and very sexy.

                    But someone who wants to be dominated in every aspect of life from here to eternity...that's ...not at all what i want, or something I would even be comfortable seeing.
                    • Unsu...
                       

                      Re: Weirdo!

                      Fri, February 29, 2008 - 6:30 AM
                      I don't like to be 'dominated' either in life or in the bedroom. I just like the man to be in charge in a way.. and I do like a 'dominant' man but I definitely don't want him to 'dominate me', if that makes any sense lol. I guess when I say I'm 'submissive' I just mean that's my personality.. I don't mean I'm 'a submissive' in the BDSM way.
                      • Unsu...
                         

                        Re: Weirdo!

                        Fri, February 29, 2008 - 6:53 AM
                        And when I said 'that's how I was raised'.. I just meant that my dad is the head of the house or ultimately 'the boss'. Like an 'old fashioned' family from the 50's lol :) But he lets my mom do whatever she wants and always lets her have her way haha.. he just has the final decision in the important things. And he loves her and treats her like a queen and she respects him as the head of the house.
                • Re: Weirdo!

                  Fri, February 29, 2008 - 1:58 PM
                  It's good you know your limits, at least. Hopefully other people respect them, if you've expressed them beforehand!!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Weirdo!

                    Fri, February 29, 2008 - 1:59 PM
                    Oops - should have said that was a response to Lexie's post.
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: Weirdo!

                Fri, February 29, 2008 - 10:29 AM
                Roth,


                "I wonder how Venus in Gemini usually operates. I wonder if finding a lot of variety within one person is important, or if there might be interest in a variety of different types of people. I know one of them (also with a Gemini Mars) was really into kink and sexual experimentation at one point, but she's decided that she just wants to do monogamous relationships, new."


                Yep, that's exactly how I feel and what I want. I only want ONE person with many different sides and that's very multi-faceted. I'm lucky to have found such a person who keeps my interest and keeps me stimulated mentally and emotionally and every other way because I need that. The one thing I will say is that I wish I had dated more and got that out of my system, and I do love knowing and flirting with a variety of people in a social way. I'm very social and I do love different settings and experiences in that way, but for me sex is something that is too personal and it's also a very mental thing for me.

                I've never been interested in a one-night stand or interested in group sex or threesomes or anything for some reason. That's never appealed to me. I'm totally a one-on-one kind of person, and I'm also very private so exhibitionism is out for me.

                I mean I love variety in sex but still with only one person and in a monogamous relationship. I like focusing my energies and having that person focus their energies only on me. And I like the idea of having known them long enough to see their different sides and also having that sexual tension and build-up. I've never experienced sexual tension and build-up having known a person for such a short-time to wanna sleep with them. I also get caught up in my head too much.

                I couldn't get with the one-night stand is because it takes awhile for me to get interested in someone and to really like them. I'm social and take to people quickly, but it takes awhile to really get me, and this is probably gonna come across as being funny to you, but I always think about what that person is really like when I'm not around and how smart and wonderful they really are when they go home. Given that I'm an idealist and stuff, I wanna think the best of them, but I always think what land mine would I walk into if I were to ever see how they actually lived and who they actually were, and then I relate having that experience with them, and it just depresses me...like this is who I invested my time with?? I know may be it isn't that serious to you and you can detach yourself easier from those thoughts or you don't even think that way, but I just can't. I need quality over quantity or it just turns me off and I become cold and detached.

                Same thing with the whole looks scenario. Like you, I'm definitely into looks and that's the first thing I look at and consider when talking to someone I'd consider dating. They have to be attractive to me or I won't even bother. At the same time, if they open their mouthes and they sound stupid or not with it or inarticulate, I just walk away. I can't deal with that, and I can't deal with people who I can't hold a conversation with or feel like I have to pull teeth with them. That's not attractive to me and it overshadows their attractiveness and then I just become immune to their looks. I will also admit I find certain bookish or more quietly attractive guys to be very appealing to me. I love glasses and I love understated attractiveness in a guy.
                • Re: Weirdo!

                  Fri, February 29, 2008 - 2:05 PM
                  Thinking about it some more after your post, actually, April, I also get turned off by finding someone's personality off-putting and am not particularly interested in doing anything with them. But we still differ in that I'm interested in hookin' up BEFORE the point of being able to really figure that out, so it doesn't even factor in. Of course, I probably would be happier waiting to see how interested I was in someone's personality and then carrying things further, because I'm definitely MORE interested in people that I actually click with. I just have a hard time wanting to turn down an opportunity if I'm presented with one - which could be emphasized, because I'm actually very shy and have a hard time approaching people.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: Weirdo!

                    Fri, February 29, 2008 - 2:20 PM
                    Roth,

                    Are you afraid that you won't get other opportunities or offers because you're shy and you're afraid that limits you? Is that what you're saying?

                    If it is, try to think of it this way: You're getting offers to begin with so it's obvious you're not in any shortage of people being interested in you. The fact that others are initiating and showing you interest gives YOU the control and advantage to be more choosey and picky if that's what you want. If you're honestly happy with the way things go as they are, then don't worry about it. Just be safe and don't put yourself in any compromising situations.

                    Also, about the BDSM thing, I've found a certain release from it as well, but that release isn't related to ever experiencing something traumatic or debilitating and needing to be healed from anything. It's just more from a certain emotional intensity and possible sense of euphoria/spiritual feeling.
                    • Re: Weirdo!

                      Sun, March 2, 2008 - 9:28 PM
                      I have to admit April what you are saying is right.

                      I am not a natural submissive and when I was first dating my man, a very experienced Dom, I was intimidated that I was not going to 'satisfy' him. It did not help that he has had one or two histrionic submissives who discovered that he was serious about me and had a habit of trying to emotionally manipulate him to break up with me (subs get possessive). When they were unsuccessful with manipulating him, they tried to confront me and manipulate me instead which didn't work. He had to put in place several boundaries and reinforce them. That took a lot of work for me to accept that part of him.

                      I have to say that initial exposure to BDSM outside of the relationship did not leave a good taste in my mouth. I thought he was going to mess with my head, but I realised that he would only push me further if I had allowed him to do so, or demonstrated that I was willing to go to the next level.

                      However we are both now finding ways and exploring my limits, and my sexuality and this intrigues him a lot more than just pushing the usual buttons on a submissive, because I am not a natural submissive.

                      Initially I had to find the balance, especially when there is unconsummated teasing lol. After the initial burst of endorphins have worn out I felt bereft and depressed, but soon after, and especially if you are a healthy and strong person, you would find a way to rebalance. After a while, I was reborn so to speak, I was able to experience sexuality on several levels and the emotional bonding at the end of each session is both more satisfying and liberating.

                      In any case, for any really good sex to happen, there has to be some form of D/s at work. Dressing up for him and anticipating, leaving your brains at the door and just doing as he tells you, sometimes displaying a wee bit of defiance so that he would insist on his way, feeling your heart palpitate because you don't know how he's going to punish you, but the relief and catharsis when he chooses to pleasure you instead, all these increments could always lead to something deeper and more intense, but only if you lead the way.
  • Re: people who are into BDSM

    Fri, February 29, 2008 - 3:57 PM
    Haha, the only time that I was involved with a slightly BDSM relationship was with an Aquarius Sun/Leo Moon. The guy was into his eclectic food and his eclectic sex..he also had a penis piercing. I have to admit that I was completely shocked at finding this as if you looked at him in a regular public setting, you would think he was just a regular Joe-Schmo, in fact he had "nerd" written all over him but by god, you got him in bed, and he was absolutely wild, into anything imaginable. I am now with someone else, but god I wish I could still play with him. I have Venus in Aries opp. Pluto in Libra. I also think that with my stellium in Aries with Mercury, Venus and Mars all sitting on top of each other (tee hee!), that when lovers talk dirty to me, oh god, I bust a nut just thinking about it!!! I do think that I could get involved happily into another of these relationships but tend to think I would want to be the Dom more. Nice topic! Me horny!
  • BDSM and Uranus

    Sat, March 1, 2008 - 10:50 PM
    One key importance is that Saturn leads to Uranus, or freedom or individuality. I picked up a quote somewhere on some BDSM sex story website about how a slave felt more free, more herself and that she was given more freedom via the domination of her master. That really struck a cord. By agreeing on certain rules (balance/Libra/Saturn) both parties are able to express themselves individually which illuminated/satisfied the Uranus energy within them.

    This is kind of related to democratic gov'ts which-because they and their laws are backed by the people, actually allows people to live more freely and individualistically than they would without so many rules. It seems like this would not be the case and that more rules would actually create less freedom but if you really think about it it makes sense. How much happiness would you have, how free would you be living if there were no laws against someone coming over right now to your house and setting it on fire and taking all your stuff and killing you? The perfect example of this is the Bill of Rights. What if there were no enforcement of these laws? Every person that wanted to (and there would be many) would trample over your freedom and individual needs/wants.

    (That's what happens in many places of the world and guess what? People are more restricted and less free: they can't get anything without bribing, are abused/harmed and nothing happens to their attackers, aren't able to move up economically, socially, can't even physically move themselves out of situations. Society is more restricted and less free because those who are lucky/rich/powerful stay that way and few others get to be them).

    The same goes for the opposite: whoever has the most power (Master/government) always has to listen to their subject (slave/citizens) and make sure that they are truly representing what he or she wants. They have to make sure they set laws and that these laws benefit people individually and society as a whole. The mutual relationship provides for the individual within the society as well as the society/group as a whole (which is what Uranus/Aquarius is about).

    That is probably the problem with many Pisces/Neptunian types who get into abusive relationship. As Sherpa said above, the Saturn part isn't there or is over dominating or the individual is not allowing his/her needs to be represented because he/she won't assert them.

    Which makes me think that Chiron should be strong in the charts of those who like/have successful BDSM relationships, etc. since it's orbit goes between Saturn and Uranus.

    Maybe Pholus has some kind of linkage to BDSM (saturn to uranus could lead to a neptunian, ideal, spiritual, ecstatic relationship) or abusive relationships (no saturn = no uranus= bad neptunian qualities/victimization) since its orbit links/is the relationship between Saturn and Neptune.
    • Re: BDSM and Uranus

      Sun, March 2, 2008 - 4:59 AM
      UIP, great explanation. Most of what you've said I have seen in my friends' lives who are into BDSM.
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: BDSM and Uranus

        Sun, March 2, 2008 - 1:58 PM
        "When you're actually abused or raped you do not have a say, you do not have code words. It is like if you are stabbed or shot or have your wallet stolen. When is the last time you negotiated with a drive by shooter to come by at a certain time when you're waiting for the bus or driving or riding a bike and shoot you?? When is the last time you set up a verbal contract with some smelly disgusting creep to rape you?

        Most of these relationships are healthy because they are about mutual agreement. Anything else is not really BDSM, its abuse. A lot of people who were in abusive relationships and enter a BDSM relationship realize that they have certain needs that they weren't paying attention to or fulfilling and so others were coming in and misinterpreting these needs for selfish benefits. Once these abuse victims become more aware of themselves they got into a healthy relationship that allowed the sexual/emotional outlet that they were in need of."


        EXACTLY the points I was making. Thank you! The difference is consent or mutual agreement, safety, and control. And in order to truly have those things, BOTH people need to be in their right minds and healthy enough to know and understand those things. In rape situations, those principals are not of a concern to the rapist. In fact, he/she wants YOU, the victim to feel unsafe and out of control and wants to cause you real harm/damage for whatever reason they may have.

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