Advertisement
I have Sun in Capricorn in exact (within one degree) square to Saturn in Aries. Saturn is in my 2nd house and my Sun seems to be at the end of 11th house or beginning of 12th.
I have researched this legendary awful placement and know very well all the limitations, confidence issues and non-stop struggle it entails for the native. And yes, yes, I know I can't forget all the wonderful "lessons" and "character building" it gives too, of course.....of course.
(insert some bitter reflection here)
I would love some help!
Are there other aspects or planetary influences etc. I should look out for in my lifelong dealing with this placement, that could help me? Astrologically speaking. I mean, could I consciously utilize a strong Mars aspect more often in my life? Are there known aspects that act as "antidotes" to diminish some of the pain of loss and feelings of lack of achievement?
Every thing I do seems to be a major struggle or actually impossible (career, financial security, goals and dreams, driver's license, home, car, etc.). I have been homeless more than once, and hospitalized for depression more than once. Then one day, I started to work at a very spiritually demanding job and for the first time saved some money. I lost it all due to an illness which had led to a major depression. My existence seems to be an ebb and flow of loss and obstacles, followed by regeneration, then loss again. Not much forward momentum. I won't even start on my childhood and teen years!
I do have a feeling my Chiron in the first house in Pisces holds a "key" to my journey through this. Pun intended!
And I hope to hell my Moon is in Leo. Actually, I am married to the idea, let's not even burst that bubble. I can really use the confidence and playfulness ( I was born between 9:30 and 10 a.m. and my moon is EXACTLY on cusp of Virgo and Leo -- it's confusing me because I feel both energies. Maybe because I'm a Monkey in Chinese astrology, I dunno. I digress...).
Thank you in advance for any feedback on my Saturn Problem! Astrology is a hobby but I am no expert, so any expertise is very appreciated.
My info: January 7 1969 between 9:30 to 10:00 a.m, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (sorry for the lack of precise time but my mother has always been quite sure of this range).
I have researched this legendary awful placement and know very well all the limitations, confidence issues and non-stop struggle it entails for the native. And yes, yes, I know I can't forget all the wonderful "lessons" and "character building" it gives too, of course.....of course.
(insert some bitter reflection here)
I would love some help!
Are there other aspects or planetary influences etc. I should look out for in my lifelong dealing with this placement, that could help me? Astrologically speaking. I mean, could I consciously utilize a strong Mars aspect more often in my life? Are there known aspects that act as "antidotes" to diminish some of the pain of loss and feelings of lack of achievement?
Every thing I do seems to be a major struggle or actually impossible (career, financial security, goals and dreams, driver's license, home, car, etc.). I have been homeless more than once, and hospitalized for depression more than once. Then one day, I started to work at a very spiritually demanding job and for the first time saved some money. I lost it all due to an illness which had led to a major depression. My existence seems to be an ebb and flow of loss and obstacles, followed by regeneration, then loss again. Not much forward momentum. I won't even start on my childhood and teen years!
I do have a feeling my Chiron in the first house in Pisces holds a "key" to my journey through this. Pun intended!
And I hope to hell my Moon is in Leo. Actually, I am married to the idea, let's not even burst that bubble. I can really use the confidence and playfulness ( I was born between 9:30 and 10 a.m. and my moon is EXACTLY on cusp of Virgo and Leo -- it's confusing me because I feel both energies. Maybe because I'm a Monkey in Chinese astrology, I dunno. I digress...).
Thank you in advance for any feedback on my Saturn Problem! Astrology is a hobby but I am no expert, so any expertise is very appreciated.
My info: January 7 1969 between 9:30 to 10:00 a.m, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (sorry for the lack of precise time but my mother has always been quite sure of this range).
Advertisement
Advertisement
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Sun, August 2, 2009 - 3:22 PMCool chart! I did 9:45 and it seems to work fine. From the charts I've seen, I'm glad that your Sun is above Saturn in the sky, as it seems to indictae that you'll bounce back from the Saturnian bumps and bruises. Saturn in the 2nd speaks to money difficulties, as it also debilitates Venus. As saturn is in an fiery sign, I'm tempted to speculate that you have lost possesions by fire?
Your 8th house mars stands by your venus, and so the karma of the chart seems to be one of cultivating resources for yourself through networking... Cap sun stigmatizes that ultimate theme too... Saturn stands by your ascendant,
Your 9th house neptune seems to indicate exploring altered states of consciousness, but try not to get stuck in any lala lands of which there are many. Your 9th house neptune is square your 7th moon, which seems to indicate that you may have avoid being sucked down by addict friends and acquaintences. It could also mean that you are or could be on the cutting edge of consciousness development in lkieu of how pluto works in this arrangement.
For many cappys I know, time is their best friend, and things gradually get better over time. You seem to have exceptional aspects for endurance, and so your life may be all the more richer and your triumph all the more greater when things finally level off for you. You know what you need to do to help your garden grow. That's my two cents. -
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Sun, August 2, 2009 - 3:24 PM"Saturn stands by your ascendant, "
lol, I'll finish my thought:
Saturn and your ascendant are friendly, so I think that putting yourself out there is indicated again as the way to make the force work with you.
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Sun, August 2, 2009 - 3:54 PMThank you Yoda, that was worth more than two cents for me. Haha, all this money talk.
I was blown away by a couple of things you pointed out: I did in fact experience a bad housefire as a child. However, we were in poverty at the time anyway so didn't lose much possession-wise. The bright side I guess! But that made me think about a greater loss: loss of normal security and safety at the hands of a very fiery (Aries) father figure who basically destroyed us kids' innocence as well. He was also a severe predator and alcoholic the years he was in our lives.
I do get stuck in la-la lands frequently, due to the relief it provides from my often grim perception of reality.
It sounds like networking can be one avenue that may jpossibly lead me to something, and when I think about it, it has in the past at times. I wonder if being in love relationships counts. I LOVE being in love and learning about myself, and humanity, in a relationship.
Oh yeah, the other thing that blew me away was that I have a "cool chart." I wonder why? why? A boost to hear that anyway!
Thanks for the response, it is so interesting and helpful. -
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Sun, August 2, 2009 - 5:54 PM"I did in fact experience a bad housefire as a child."
It's a bittersweet thing to be right on this. Many people very near and dear to me have lost their homes to fires. It's a both family history thing and southern California thing in terms of my situation. I've been lucky so far, *knocks on dry californa kindling wood*.
"He was also a severe predator and alcoholic the years he was in our lives."
La la lands can be fine, but it's pretty clear that your father's example serves as a warning for you.
"I wonder if being in love relationships counts."
In your case, I'd say it's probably okay. Cap suns in general would hate themselves for being the gold-digging moocher type, so in your case my guess is that being sharing love gives you the glowing confidence and joy you need to go out there and take on the big bad world and find your success. I'm the same way in many respects, and I think everyone is a little looser and a little more lucid when they are sharing a deep loving connection with another person. You don't have to wait for a long term romance to get started with utilizing this dynamic, however. You can start by just beaming friendly smiles at the strangers you pass on the street, even if they might be scumbags, lol. What you put out is what you receive more often than not.
My "cool chart" comment came on the heels of my own presonal biases, mainly, lol. Your ascendant is very close to my own; your first house is a familiar picture; your first house contains a piscean venus which only brings good things to mind for me; the aspects are pretty crisp and clear; and, I just appreciate Capricorn in general. I think the Eastern astrologies understood the nature of capricorn better than western astrology does. Capricorn has a special place in my heart. Not the most generally popular sign, but it's a blessing to be able to appreciate Cap virtues, IMO.
My personal hero, Robert Anton Wilson, was a Capricorn, and he really does a good job of putting the typical western interpretations of sun sign caps right into the dog house. He also did a very good job of exploring la la lands. You may want to give ol' Uncle Bob a looksee: www.rawilson.com/
Happy Sunday!
-
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Sun, August 2, 2009 - 9:11 PMgreetings Yoda!
A lot of what you point out rings true. Also, I am now amazed that I never knew about Robert Anton Wilson before, his way of thinking and his incredible sense of humour is right up my alley. I really got into that website and have googled some more on him. I WILL be reading one of his books in the near future, probably start with Illuminatus or the Cat Trilogy one first. THANK YOU for this, it was "meant to be."
Have to take care not to turn his writings into one of my la-la lands though. ;]
Thanks again Yoda
-
-
-
-
least aspected planets, C
Sun, August 2, 2009 - 8:51 PMC
You said:
"Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse...know very well all the limitations, confidence issues...I would love some help!...Are there other aspects or planetary influences etc...Every thing I do seems to be a major struggle or actually impossible (career, financial security, goals and dreams, driver's license, home, car, etc.). I have been homeless more than once, and hospitalized for depression more than once. Then one day...major depression. My existence seems to be an ebb and flow...I do have a feeling my Chiron in the first house in Pisces holds a "key" to my journey through this...Thank you in advance for any feedback on my Saturn Problem! Astrology is a hobby but I am no expert"
First of all, I am not certain how much basic astrology you know. If you do not know how to read charts and want to learn, you can learn in six steps here:
wilsontc.stormloader.com/#continue
In addition to the helpful interpretation Yoda gave you, here are a few things.
You have a least aspected Sun (self-expression, also ego) and a least aspected Saturn (duty, also restriction, career) square (energy needs to be combined with) each other and touching NO other planets. This indicates you think of ego in terms of "restriction" and "restriction" in terms of "ego", because these energies ONLY talk to each other. The challenge is to realize there is more to ego than restriction and more to restriction than ego...even though you personally don't "feel" those other things out there, they are there! Work to look for them in your life. Realize when your career seems to have the effect of going beyond ego...and when your ego goes beyond your career. You will know these times because your career/ego will be "behaving strangely" and you won't know why!
You have a "seesaw" chart, indicating your energy goes "back and forth". The "seesaw" is between the left (self) side of your chart and the right (others) side of your chart, indicating you go "back and forth" between focusing on yourself and focusing on others. You have more planets focused in the relationships house than any other house, indicating you put a lot of energy into relationships. However, your South node (the past) is in the relationships house, indicating that focusing on relationships can hold you back in life. Instead, focus on your North node (future goals) in the being house, focus on your self and your own interests and learn to develop those interests. Focusing too much on what others want can hold you back, instead focus on what YOU want.
Be careful about angry talk, since you have Mars (being, also anger, action) square (energy needs to be combined with) Mercury (thinking, also talking) and Mercury is in a "hidden" house. Things people say might suddenly cause you to get angry and to want to take "angry actions". Instead, calm down and WAIT before responding. Use Mars square Mercury energy to figure out what is the best action to take in whatever is happening in your life.
Transiting Neptune (spirituality, also confusion) is on your birth Ascendant (self) right now, so you may be personally confused. Doing meditation at this time will help with the confusion. And transiting Pluto (transformation) is squaring birth Pluto in the relationships house, so your sense of how you handle your relationships is being transformed. You can use this time to help you to shift your focus from others...to yourself.
Selfly,
Tim -
-
Re: least aspected planets, C
Sun, August 2, 2009 - 9:47 PMTim
Boy, am I happy I asked for help on this. Regarding astrology, I am somewhat beyond the basics in my knowledge and can read and interpret basic aspects (mostly in my own chart only and a few friends). But in practice, and variety of charts, I have little experience.
I have seen the indications of my Nodes and interpreted for myself that I might want to put more of my energy into Aries-type pursuits - my Self, and less into the Libra - partnerships. I'm happy to have had this confirmed by a seasoned astrologer. In fact it is more glaringly obvious to me now, partly because of this Pluto transit (which indeed I have been feeling). I have sacrificed a huge amount of opportunities and fun in the name of love. I know I have a lot of 7th house action in my chart. It's a bit of a cruel joke, but it's my spiritual challenge I guess!
My Sun/Saturn square -- no other planets involved to give me perspective! I have never thought of this. This realization is really important. I have a feeling that the full implications of this realization will come slowly and with a sustained sense of "dawning" (perhaps after the Neptune transit..). I have done a great deal of "soul" work, quit smoking pot, attend weekly psychotherapy, explored mindfulness techniques and lucid dreams, reconnected with my creative side, etc. and have come far in the past two years. This great piece of information I hope I can internalize and apply to full effect.
As for the angry talk, I wish I'd known this a week ago! I heard somebody at my work say a lie about my character and I exploded for the first time at that job. Now, I have work to do in regaining some of my lost credibility, and in dealing with some jealous types who see my "losing it" as an opportunity to slander me further (like it's now my "weak spot" they never knew I had).
Thank you again for your help Tim. "Selfly" indeed :]
-
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Sat, August 8, 2009 - 11:18 AMI noticed Orcus in cancer is closely related to this aspect. I know that astrologers are sometimes quite picky about including things like orcus in planetary pictures but I feel that especially when orbs are close - they are significant.
From: planetwaves.net/astrology/...worlds.html
>>>
Orcus (provisional name 2004 DW, catalogue number 90482), another Plutino, was discovered in 2004, and has a 248 year orbit -- quite close to Pluto's. While this is an underworld god, not specifically a sea-god, it is the namesake of orca whales, sometimes called killer whales (who tend to be friendly to humans), so I'm including it. Orca whales despite their name are friendly to humans, but they are in a serious fight for survival. They are, by the way, practically the subject of a massive folk religion in the Seattle and Vancouver areas, where they are revered.
Sedgwick proposes that this planet can symbolize "a person of one's word, [one who] challenges broken promises, is aligned with a spiritual creed, [and is] accountable for personal thought, word and deed." On the more difficult side, he suggests, "hypocritical, fault finding in the ways of others, blame assigning, ducks responsibility for word and actions, unable to keep promises."
Francesco Sciavinotto suggests that this planet is involved in the fight for survival. I would add that there is a feeling of the ethics that one would apply or adopt when faced with such a fight, and the psychological and emotional steps toward getting there.
>>>
To me, the things you said here seem to echo the interpretation of orcus as a fight for survival:
>>>
Every thing I do seems to be a major struggle or actually impossible (career, financial security, goals and dreams, driver's license, home, car, etc.). I have been homeless more than once, and hospitalized for depression more than once. Then one day, I started to work at a very spiritually demanding job and for the first time saved some money. I lost it all due to an illness which had led to a major depression. My existence seems to be an ebb and flow of loss and obstacles, followed by regeneration, then loss again. Not much forward momentum. I won't even start on my childhood and teen years!
>>>
What I would think then from your chart is that there is great importance in self discipline - not only in anger but in other things to - that result from the pressure of the need to survive. It seems that committing closely to the things you feel are of most value and rigorously disciplining and holding yourself to these things in the face of struggling to survive is important. I think it is possible that the same discipline that holds you to your values might also help with the struggle to survive by keeping you beyond question and on your toes at all times. -
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Wed, August 12, 2009 - 10:28 AMRiptide,
"I know that astrologers are sometimes quite picky about including things like orcus in planetary pictures but I feel that especially when orbs are close - they are significant."
Thanks for this information and your insight. I read the "Water Worlds" article and a bit more stuff about Orcus that I found on the web. And indeed there is Orcus in my chart at 18 Cancer, almost exactly opposing my 17 Sun which is almost exactly square to Saturn.
"What I would think then from your chart is that there is great importance in self discipline - not only in anger but in other things to - that result from the pressure of the need to survive. It seems that committing closely to the things you feel are of most value and rigorously disciplining and holding yourself to these things in the face of struggling to survive is important. I think it is possible that the same discipline that holds you to your values might also help with the struggle to survive by keeping you beyond question and on your toes at all times."
Regardless of whether an astrologer would be picky about including Orcus in a planetary picture, what you say is very interesting and adds another dimension, for me, to what Yoda and Tim read in my chart. I absolutely feel that the issues of discipline, the pressure of the need to survive and how they affect my value system is extremely important, and addressing these issues has been in line with recent changes (slow and profound ones) in my worldview. I feel my old values are evolving, and some are even falling away, to reveal a less survival-oriented and more free, constructive me.
One of my wailings in life has been: "but I don't wanna just SURVIVE all the time -- I want to LIVE."
Certain self-disciplines are very hard for me, I am seeing. I want to add here that I have also begun to see, through getting more serious about astrology, that sun-square-saturn is actually not the worst there is in and of itself. I have been waiting a long time for my "reward" for surviving countless, bizarre and existential childhood conditions (Kafka's The Trial meets McDonald's). But, hahaha, my chart seems to reveal a person who is just a tad lazy.....weird. Some talents come very, very easily to me and I lose sight, and thus the opportunity to really work on the challenge of my Saturn/Sun (and Orcus?) situation remains un-taken.
Thanks again Riptide. I am looking forward to hearing more from the global astrological community about Orcus' influence in the natal and the mundane. I think there is definitely probably something going on here in my chart, with the close orb opposition to my sun. -
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 2:39 AM>>>
One of my wailings in life has been: "but I don't wanna just SURVIVE all the time -- I want to LIVE."
Certain self-disciplines are very hard for me, I am seeing. I want to add here that I have also begun to see, through getting more serious about astrology, that sun-square-saturn is actually not the worst there is in and of itself. I have been waiting a long time for my "reward" for surviving countless, bizarre and existential childhood conditions (Kafka's The Trial meets McDonald's). But, hahaha, my chart seems to reveal a person who is just a tad lazy.....weird. Some talents come very, very easily to me and I lose sight, and thus the opportunity to really work on the challenge of my Saturn/Sun (and Orcus?) situation remains un-taken.
>>>
Interesting ...
I wonder how the values you currently hold play into your desires and motivations ... Do your current values motivate you? Are your values motivating but simply not in a material or professional sense (which in my opinion is just fine)?
A challenging aspect (especially involving saturn) can be very debilitating or it can be a source of stregth depending on how the challenge presented by it is answered.
I have seen people who had a history of failures and were labelled "lazy" by others turn it around completely once they found something that motivated them.
I don't know - if it were me these would probably be the questions I'd ask myself. -
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 6:58 PMRiptide,
Up until recently, many of my values have been about what I "should" do with my talents. Since I could not achieve much and faced seemingly impossible circumstances, I was always depressed, angry, or coming out of another mess of some kind or another. Or, I often "went away" through various addictive behaviours.
I have a long story about my physical, mental, and I suppose spiritual "dismantling" which led me to the beginning of a new world view, so I can't explain much here, of course (although I am usually pretty candid, it's only a forum LOL) but what I am saying is I have been re-styling, re-fitting and reviewing my values because of that breaking down period.
"Do your current values motivate you? Are your values motivating but simply not in a material or professional sense (which in my opinion is just fine)?"
I am liking my current values-in-training :) And in fact I'm discovering most of them are motivating in a non-material or professional sense. It's a clearing-out feeling, and really fresh, as I'm not lashing myself to achieve some status quo.
Although, I sometimes suddenly think I have been forced to change my values only because I was never successful enough, and now must "downsize" my dreams and desires. Of course, this is very sad. Two years ago, those thoughts of downsizing would lead me down some very dark chasms I barely escaped from. Today, those are fleeting thoughts, I handle them, and I am MUCH more "in like" with myself. Stronger.
There is a pretty intense transit going on with my natal chart right now with Neptune, Jupiter, Chiron and something to do with my only T-square (which is dissociate). I think it is quite timely and I will be studying it more as my time permits.
"I don't know - if it were me these would probably be the questions I'd ask myself. "
Thanks Riptide, my recent thoughts and actions seem to be in line with your insights. I am on that new path right now, it's pretty great!
-
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Sun, August 16, 2009 - 10:34 AM>>>
Although, I sometimes suddenly think I have been forced to change my values only because I was never successful enough, and now must "downsize" my dreams and desires. Of course, this is very sad. Two years ago, those thoughts of downsizing would lead me down some very dark chasms I barely escaped from. Today, those are fleeting thoughts, I handle them, and I am MUCH more "in like" with myself. Stronger.
>>>
I wonder - if you are motivated and value the non-material ... what makes you question this?
In my view this is just fine!
It is true that surviving those dark paths can often lead one to be stronger.
It is interesting that the things that motivate and seem of value to an individual does not always match the thought of their surrounding community. This is often a source of difficulty for people I know including myself.
I'm glad you escaped those chasms!
They can be nasty!
-
-
-
-
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Mon, August 10, 2009 - 1:29 PMAn excellent aspect, like fugue in C- especially in realestate... -
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Mon, August 10, 2009 - 1:33 PMOrcus is in Sextans/Hydra... it provokes the shadow market as first published largely by the Swiss Lodge of Astrology. See also "Orcus Report".
-
-
Unsu...
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Wed, August 12, 2009 - 11:15 PMI would argue that Moon-Saturn square is just as bad (which I have), so I wouldn't say that there is "nothing worse." Actually, in my humble opinion, I’d say it's better than Venus-Saturn square, as this is cold-hearted indication, unless backed up by more positive things in the chart. Hitler was one such Venus-Saturn square.
Sun-Saturn square is a defining aspect, as with the Moon-Saturn square. It is probably your most influential aspect, and makes you who you are, so do not fear it. Maybe it does make life so bleak sometimes that you have to create a "la la land" until some hard Neptune aspect leads to disillusionment and crashes that down, but at least you have life experience, emotional depth and introspection, which some people will never get. I think the hardest part is that you are never truly satisfied. Even if you were a millionaire with a stable relationship, you probably would find something that you were unhappy about. You are more likely to be in search of the unattainable. I agree about the teeter-totter someone mentioned. Your Moon-Neptune square also talks about something to that effect. There tends to be a bank and forth of optimism and disenchanted states of mind. You are definitely a dreamer.
The mutual reception between the Sun and Saturn in your chart should help to alleviate the strain between the two planets, as the Sun is in Saturn’s rulership of Capricorn, and Saturn is in the Sun’s exaltation of Aries. They can borrow each other’s energies and provide assistance, such that, in a sense, you are a lot like a Sun in Aries, and Saturn in Capricorn as well (they take on each other’s attributes). This is especially true during times of difficult transits to these two planets. -
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Thu, August 13, 2009 - 6:59 PMTeresa,
I agree - a Moon-Saturn square is just as hard. Intimacy, relationships with the self and others are hit, I think I see that...emotionally, almost prison-like in a way.
'It is probably your most influential aspect, and makes you who you are, so do not fear it.'
That is heartening to hear, thank you. I did mention somewhere further back in the thread that I realize there could be worse aspects than sun-saturn square...however, I DO still think it's in the top 5 of the worst :P. I like to dramatize things in the negative sometimes, it is a little sick sense of humour.
"The mutual reception between the Sun and Saturn in your chart should help to alleviate the strain between the two planets, as the Sun is in Saturn’s rulership of Capricorn, and Saturn is in the Sun’s exaltation of Aries. They can borrow each other’s energies and provide assistance, such that, in a sense, you are a lot like a Sun in Aries, and Saturn in Capricorn as well (they take on each other’s attributes). This is especially true during times of difficult transits to these two planets."
Of course, I did not think to look at this, I have neglected my studying about mutual reception. I was going to post a question in another tribe asking why I identify so strongly with Aries and feel so "fiery" most of the time. Could a mutual reception like this really affect a person to the extent that they can exhibit the other planet's energies visibly, outwardly, in their behaviour? This would explain a couple of things about a friend's chart as well.
At any rate, I always like to hear and learn about the positive side of the hard-aspect coin, in general - especially a hard one that affects me so personally.
I am learning a LOT about interpretation lately :] thank you Teresa.
-
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 3:04 AMCan I have some help too?
My Cancer-Leo cusp Sun is in the 9H, conjunct MC, square Saturn in Libra 12H, where it sits beside Pluto.
-
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 3:19 AMghostgirl
you're chart is a bit more 'interesting' in that it hasn't just got a saturn square to the sun, but a saturn-pluto conjunction squaring your sun. The pluto aspect to your sun is important as pluto is your chart ruler (using modern rulership of scorpio) but if we use the old rulership, we see that mars (in cancer) also makes an important aspecting by being opposition your moon (in capricorn) . Also the saturn-pluto conjunction is your only instance of air in your chart. Not only that but the moon-mars opposition 'contain's all the rest of the planets - to the eastern side of the chart in a bowl shape.
There's a lot going on. -
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 3:41 AM"There's a lot going on. "
So. I know you mentioned these before, but I never did grasp the meaning of the aforementioned aspects well enough to connect it to real life anytime I'm think about it... I mean, in my behavior/life events I can spot Sun square Saturn, Sun square Pluto, Sun in 9th house, etc (considering them separately, is easy)... i just cannot bring these Moon-Mars opposition + Sun/Saturn/Pluto connections together, make them whole...
i happen to have North Node in Gemini, too...
(Lol defending my very few Air placements hehe....)
My main question is... What is this "lot going on" for? Just finding the purpose so that I can fix tensions....
Thanks for looking at my chart anyway. =) -
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 3:55 AM"What is this "lot going on" for? Just finding the purpose so that I can fix tensions.... "
ghostgirl
I've a really rubbish memory. Have I looked at your chart before then?
there is always the possibility with oppositions that you 'live' one side and 'project' the other. This is not always the case or anything like it, but it does happen and it happen unconciously, projecting onto others is one of the most basic ways we learn about ourselves. If you don't recognise the moon-mars opposition as integrated in yourself, then you may recognise it as being 'out there', or someone else may personify one side. Often inner needs (moon) are released through confrontations or clashes. There may also be a character in your life who plays the part of either the moon or mars and you play the other. If you 'live' the Moon you may feel that there is an 'other' who plays mars and may be challenging or 'attacking' your domestic comfort and needs. If you 'live' the mars you may find that whilst you want to be 'out there' doing stuff, you have to look after some 'homely' things instead - children is a common example.
A lot of these things may depend on your relationship with your mother. You may have had 'clashes' with her in some way. As a child you may have been somewhat denied a certain degree of emotional contact. Whilst you may have a great adult relationship with your mother, this does not mean that your infant self did.
Either way your emotional nature is 'excited' by the dynamics of mars. This is not a calm waters emotional placement. It is a much more excitable or even exciting emotional nature - possibly emotional turbulence. It is possible that you need a certain degree of danger or excitement in your life, often this is manifested sexually and it may well be that what initially attracts you is the sexual side of things, but once this dies down, you may be left feeling that your needs are not being met. -
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 4:22 AM"I've a really rubbish memory. Have I looked at your chart before then? "
If you look at the chart in my photos again, you will find that the last comment below was yours, from last year...
I am going to sleep now Paul, thanks for the posts... I will think more about the Moon/Mars opposition, thank you for explaining in detail...
"It is possible that you need a certain degree of danger or excitement in your life, often this is manifested sexually and it may well be that what initially attracts you is the sexual side of things, but once this dies down, you may be left feeling that your needs are not being met."
Hmm. I experienced that...... when transiting Uranus trined my Mars.... o.0 -
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 12:41 PMA lot of excellent chart interpretation, fascinating to read. Only a few things I'd add to this:
1. I don't think Sun square Saturn is the most challenging aspect in a chart. The Moon opposition Venus (which you have) and the Moon square Venus can be, in my opinion, more difficult. The real problem with squares is that we internalize them. (And, as has been stated, we tend to project oppositions on other people. Which leads many to assume that oppositions are more difficult, though I'm not inclined to agree. The projectees move in and out of your life, but it's difficult to avoid oneself.)
2. Using a 9:45 Am birth time, you have all four of the royal stars of Persia represented in your chart. Venus is at 3 Pisces, connected to Fomalhaut, which is considered the star of alchemy and gives transformational abilities. If the Moon is in 29 Leo OR 00 Virgo, it is in conjunction with Regulus, a fortunate star. The IC is at 9 Gemini and MC is 9 Sag, which aligns it with Aldebaran and Antares, inclining towards success if revenge is avoided. So there is considerable power in this chart.
3. With the Sun square Saturn, you should pay close attention to transiting Saturn to natal Sun aspects which would occur every 7 years. There can be insights as to how to handle the birth square. I think the aspect eventually gives you good timing, once you understand that you don't control timing. I frequently see that this birth square gives success in the 2nd half of life rather than the first.
4. Your natal Saturn is at 18 Aries. I have done considerable research on that degree alone, which falls in the Scorpionic dwad. It is a degree of passion and focus, one degree removed from 19 Aries, which is the exaltation degree of the Sun. Like everything else, that passionate intensity can be directed positively or negatively.
Your chart contains more treasure than you realize.
Michele -
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 8:56 PMMichele,
Over the last week or two I have come to agree that there are lots of other angles just as "hard" as mine. I appreciate reading these posts about the impact of Moon-Saturn square and such, but I especially resound with what you and everyone else in this thread has to say about the creative and transformational potential, and depth of experience, that Saturn squares can impart.
But wow...the fixed stars you mention and 18 Aries Saturn, how uplifitng, really. I had read of Regulus before and I thought maybe my moon landed on that degree, but I ignored it, thinking my moon would have to be exactly at 29 Leo at the time. I did a little googling on the fixed stars after reading your post, and found it all really interesting. Here is a link I found: www.astrologycom.com/fixedstars.html
Even if my moon turned out to be 00 53 Virgo, there is a fortunate star there, 'Præcipua', that strikes a chord with me too. I don't know much about the fixed stars, but I will like to learn more in the future.
"With the Sun square Saturn, you should pay close attention to transiting Saturn to natal Sun aspects which would occur every 7 years. There can be insights as to how to handle the birth square. I think the aspect eventually gives you good timing, once you understand that you don't control timing. I frequently see that this birth square gives success in the 2nd half of life rather than the first."
I thank you for your advice on looking out for Saturn transits to my sun, anything that will help me to handle the square is worth watching.
Btw, I am a pretty good percussionist known in my circle for rhythmic skills, maybe this is one way my good timing manifests? :)
"Your chart contains more treasure than you realize."
Thank you Michele, I am starting to think this is true in my deeper studying of astrology, and especially lately seeing the charts of friends, family and others in this tribe too.
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 7:57 PMI can see why Paul remarked on your chart, it is interesting. I am imagining the force of Saturn and Pluto combined in the 12H making ANY aspect to a natal sun...nevermind a square. Wow... -
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 8:13 PMI still don't see how it is special.
but yes it is tough.
I'm still trying to make sense of it which is why I'm here... -
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 6:41 AMwith sun square saturn......it can be very easy falling into depression, and also to attract failure...
i know because i have sun/venus with a big fat saturn square...
funny that i have it in very different signs (Leo sun, Scorpio saturn) but i have some of the same issues
-I also failed several times for my driver's license (and here in holland it is reallyyy expensive and difficult Grrr)
-Also serious family issues, parents split up at age 7, have not seen my father since age 12, and a whooole lot more wich i will not throw on the table right now...
a sun - saturn square bacially means that you are a serious and responsible person, that people will depend on..
what is really important, is to think positive... with this aspect one tends to expect failure, and then acts in a way that assures failure..
when you think about something you want or a goal you want to achieve.. you automatically think what can go wrong, and 10 reasons why your are going to fail at it and why you should not do it.. understand this is saturn in your head, forcing reality upon you...
but a lot of times it is not reality, it is just pure pessimism amd insecurity...
(And for reference: my mother raised me and she also has a sun-saturn square, and so does my brother.. just they are lucky to also have jupiter square sun)
Thinking positive is the best thing you can do, and doing things that you normally fear to do.. you'll come to find out it was less harder then you though afterwards.. also do not look at your failures but at your achievements, even if they are small... look what you accomplished and learned, and not even in the material world but for yourself
"Saturn in Aries helps with your concentration and reasoning ability, and in general stabilizes the mind. You may have a tendency to be suspicious and distrustful, however, and to have conflicts (real or imagined) with those who have power over you. If a female, this can manifest in a fixation with your father. Physical exercise is important for your circulation, and too much head congestion can lead to headaches. Its also helpful to get plenty of water in order that your kidneys are purified. Be aware of trying to force your idea of right and wrong on others, as well as a general need for control"
-
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 3:11 PMExcellent insights! Thank you for posting, Ze! =)
-
-
-
-
-
Re: Help. Sun Square Saturn: there is nothing worse.
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 5:35 PMI have Saturn square Sun/Pluto conjunction, with 3H Saturn in Scorpio, and 12H Sun/Pluto in Leo.
The whole theme of swallowing somewhat mystifying "failures" and feeling responsible beyond one's true responsibilities is familiar.
As a result, I find myself prone to anxieties that can move into depression if unchecked, but checking them usually involves an intense act of willful introspection that can be rather unnerving in its own right ~ kind of like going really far in to get out or burning up with the fever to get over it.
At the present time, I am experiencing transits of Mars (Mars conj Uranus & opp Chiron), and certain Moon transits (particularly a long Saturn trine, a sextile to Pluto, and a trine Neptune with Venus conjunct Neptune as well) that lend a certain sort of trigger of their own ~ especially since I have a natal Saturn/Mars and natal Saturn/Uranus trines ~ so T Mars conj natal Uranus and natal Mars conj T Uranus aspect natal Saturn. I can literally feel the increase in adrenaline and have lost all appetite. This has been going on since T Mars conj my natal Uranus ~ so since shortly before Halloween. I have lost weight ~ about 4% of my prior body weight.
The material that is generating anxiety has mostly to do with dredging up what seems like very old stuff ~ going back over three decades ~ some of which is about taking action and some of which has to do with just raw identity. With Saturn in Libra, the impetus seems to be about striking balances, and, obviously, that is not going so well. LOL.