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For those who are interested in Jungian astrology, the concept of transits creating the occasion for manifestation of certain archetypal situations or circumstances comes up rather often in discussions of collective affairs, such as wars, significant world events, etc. What I think we hear less about is how this phenomenon occurs in the personal sphere. Even less do we hear about how actual archetypes manifest through being triggered by certain transits, thereby either generating psychic transformations or at least challenging the psyche to cope with them.
Everything is game in this, including transiting planets aspecting each other and natal planets as well. The point is to recognize them and then pinpoint the origin of the manifestations ~ seeing the patterns. I think that it is also possible that these situations can seem inextricably linked to karma. Repetitive themes in one's life may appear karmic, but are they? Is karma about psychic integration? Is the repetition of life "themes" a signal of karma at work, playing out over and over what we don't "master," resolve, reconcile, or integrate in ourselves and seeming to keep resurfacing as a result?
For example, perhaps a person begins to recognize the periodic emergence of a Parsifal theme in his life ~ questing after a kind of Holy Grail ~ a life purpose. Certain crises arise from time to time that cast a huge spotlight on this matter, such as collapsing business ventures or a series of failed relationships or choices that seem impossible to make at the time. Encounters with the anima or animus can be quite typical of this ~ a man finding that woman who embodies what seems to be his "type," only to find after a while that the relationship is morphing into a nightmare and not being sure why. Rx Venus messing around again, or does it go deeper than that and get triggered by other potent transits as well, and if so, why?
Everything is game in this, including transiting planets aspecting each other and natal planets as well. The point is to recognize them and then pinpoint the origin of the manifestations ~ seeing the patterns. I think that it is also possible that these situations can seem inextricably linked to karma. Repetitive themes in one's life may appear karmic, but are they? Is karma about psychic integration? Is the repetition of life "themes" a signal of karma at work, playing out over and over what we don't "master," resolve, reconcile, or integrate in ourselves and seeming to keep resurfacing as a result?
For example, perhaps a person begins to recognize the periodic emergence of a Parsifal theme in his life ~ questing after a kind of Holy Grail ~ a life purpose. Certain crises arise from time to time that cast a huge spotlight on this matter, such as collapsing business ventures or a series of failed relationships or choices that seem impossible to make at the time. Encounters with the anima or animus can be quite typical of this ~ a man finding that woman who embodies what seems to be his "type," only to find after a while that the relationship is morphing into a nightmare and not being sure why. Rx Venus messing around again, or does it go deeper than that and get triggered by other potent transits as well, and if so, why?
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 12:05 PMProbably neptune transits can be related to animus/anima projection. I'm not sure about the Holy Grail (jupiter? neptune on the sun?), but some people may be living this search theme on a more regular basis... maybe it's not triggered by transits.
Repetition of themes does seem to have karmic charge, though. Some concrete examples: moon conjunct neptune always ending up in relationships with 'unavailable people' (either married, or emotionally unavailable), moon pluto always attracted to 'forbidden relationships', to people who can 'promise' power struggles or to difficult, painful, intricate stuff, moon uranus very fond of change and always going for the unusual, unconventional (when measured against a given, eroded context, of course ... ). Especially when dealing with the moon (ingrained since early childhood, possibly even inherited subconscious), karmic aspects are reflected precisely by repetitive patterns. And from what I've seen ... people find it hard to escape or fight the pshychological patterns implied by their moon aspects. It's what comes very easily to them, instinctively, they don't feel the need to question it except for when it's obvious that something is undermining their very core. -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 12:10 PMCan't dedicate enough time to this just right now. Definitely will come back to it, but I'm thinking parcifal is more a Leo related archetype. -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 12:34 PMI just threw Parsifal out as an example. No special personal significance there, if that is what you mean. My personal gig right now is confronting the animus, but it can be all all sorts of things for other people.
Take your time, Paul. This topic is a lot about connecting dots or putting the puzzle together, and that can take a while. I know it is taking me a while, and I am still looking at the shapes of the pieces to see if they even look like they fit together or not. LOL. -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 1:22 PM"I just threw Parsifal out as an example. No special personal significance there, if that is what you mean"
Amiable
The myth relates to Leo. Do a google search.
As I say I can't give this the time it needs just at the moment but I just googles it quickly as an example and found this article:
www.realmagick.com/articles/72/1172.html
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 3:00 PMI don't doubt that Paul, but it was just a random example to give people an idea of what I meant by an archetypal scenario. I am not particularly sensing myself on the path of the Grail quest at the present time, but, if you are seeing something, I am not ~ cool. I was just kicking off the discussion. At least that is what I thought I was doing. -
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Unsu...
Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 3:18 PMa suggestion,
there is a saying, don't rush a masterpeice.
just sit with these ideas as they are.
sniff swirl and slowly sip like a fine wine.
walk away and then come back. and reread the original post. -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 3:27 PMYes, k ~ precisely. I am savoring this time. It strikes me as unlike any other and is not anything I care to rush. And really, I am not bringing this up to be all about me, but about the phenomenon, and to see if other people see things in this way or care to, and if so, what they see or how they relate, as well as how they spot it astrologically, and if they are doing that now or have in the past.
Jung was quite interested in alchemy as an archetype for psychic integration, so I hope that features as well.
Since I have lately been challenged to put out something in this tribe, and since it has been a while since anyone has done much here with Jungian astrology, which is sort of a favorite topic of mine, this what you guys get from me. LOL.
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 12:30 PMOne thing about the animus for females that is probably good to bear in mind is that Jung said that, unlike, the anima, the animus presents itself as multiple ~ not as one person. I don't recall on his commenting too much about that in anything I have read, but it does seem to smack of some sort of fundamental psychic fragmentation in the feminine.
I find these things to be triggered by transits, actually. Certainly, I don't feel an ever-present sort of sense of karmic charge in my most of my life situations. Presently, however, this has arisen, and it is interesting to me how the matter does seem to be synchronous with certain transits occurring now. I am not seeing much of the influence of T Neptune here necessarily, even though it is conj T Chiron, which are both opposing natal Sun. Transiting Mars conj Uranus opp natal Moon conj Chiron and natal Mars and Uranus conjunction seem to be the culprits to me. Even the actual persons involved display a weird polarity between their opposite Sun signs and it even looks to me as though T Saturn is weighing in during the last vestiges of his time in Virgo as he is also opp natal Mars. It looks like a Mars, Uranus, Moon, Chiron, Saturn play unfolding, with a clear plot and very allegorical characters. -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 12:46 PMI don't agree with the animus-anima distinction (though it's Jung's ;). I think both are made of multiple archetypal images.
Do exapand on the allegorical characters. Do you find yourself in the middle of some animus projection? multiple.. and simultaneously so? -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 12:55 PM<I don't agree with the animus-anima distinction (though it's Jung's ;). I think both are made of multiple archetypal images.> Could be.
<Do exapand on the allegorical characters. Do you find yourself in the middle of some animus projection? multiple.. and simultaneously so?>
Yes. The individuals themselves are on an axis ~ Aries and Libra. The Aries acts more Libran and the Libran identifies with Scorpio, formerly ruled by Mars. The allegory is the same one that has repeated throughout my life ~ the outward, conventional self that is prone to security and stability, and the inward, probing self that goes where both angels and fools fear to tread presenting themselves as unintegrated facets of Self. LOL. The Lovers card in Tarot also comes to mind in this scenario, although at the moment I can reside in a position of not needing to make any choices. Interestingly enough, I have never been successful in the past in choosing one over another, which leads me to believe that this is not a matter of choosing between people, just as it is not a matter of choosing between parts of Self, but figuring out how to integrate opposites within me. -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 1:04 PMI'm willing to take a closer look at T Neptune, but I am not sure how big a player he is in this production.
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 1:42 PMI have a very acute suspicion you're undergoing a neptune transit.
I think you're right here and you know very well why I think so. But believe me I'd be almost terrified at hearing this is a recurrent theme of your life (and not for the reason you may suspect .. ). Do you have prominent neptune?
My guess is that you cannot reconcile opposites within you. You can only discover and interate them.
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 1:49 PM**I have never been successful in the past in choosing one over another, which leads me to believe that this is not a matter of choosing between people, just as it is not a matter of choosing between parts of Self, but figuring out how to integrate opposites within me.***
What exactly happened when you had to choose? had both or lost both? -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 3:18 PMI don't think I have been confronted with quite this situation in the past, but in an alternating way where I have chosen one type and then the other type, succeeding with neither. That is one of the reasons why being presented with two drastically different and appealing people simultaneously is so interesting to me. I have some incredible parallels with both of them, some of which seem completely uncanny. The matter of choice is not what is at hand ~ at least not yet. At this time, it is really totally a matter of becoming acquainted. Right now, I am interested in seeing this unfold and relating it to the dichotomy I have within myself that ordinarily remains rather insignificant in terms of daily living. Again, I am not looking to "reconcile opposites" necessarily either, but to integrate these aspects in a manner that, for lack of a better way of putting it, might be "productive." That could be another way of saying the same thing, though ~ I am entirely sure. It is a synthesis of sort, though ~ I agree to that. Whether the balance becomes a blend or or not is something I can't predict.
My chart is posted. I have a 2H Libra Neptune singleton that forms a variety of aspects, including a sextile to my 12H Sun/Pluto conjunction and squares to Uranus and my Moon/Chiron conjunction and to my Cap BML. But, no, I don't know what you are seeing about Neptune. But if you see something in the chart, feel free to say so. Perhaps just that this scenario has come up at all is Neptunian? Maybe. It just looks like something else to me. -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 12:55 AM****It is a synthesis of sort, though ~ I agree to that. Whether the balance becomes a blend or or not is something I can't predict. ***
Beleive me or not, whenever I get to feel relieved with believing I have reached some synthesis, I'm being proved opposites cannot be bleded and harmonized. They can at best be complementary.
I'll take a look at your chart again. I know this is a typical neptunean situation - it may be triggered by transit (it was in my case, when neptune squared both my sun and mars - talk about multiple animus projection ;) or by a particular aspect in the chart that manifest as a repetitive pattern.
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 11:23 PMPuts my hand up to moon-Pluto, moon-Saturn and moon Uranus and sighs loudly.
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 12:23 PMI'm going through a Scorpio death/rebirth cycle right now, shedding the ol' snakeskin. It's great!
T Saturn's just separating from sextiling my Uranus, trining my Moon, and squaring my Venus, and will go back and forth over my placidus 8th house cusp starting next year. I think when Saturn makes it into my 8th house and my Saturn return goes through, I'll be completely "reborn". -
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Unsu...
Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 3:55 PMI don't think I've been studying astrology long enough to find these patterns of behavior in my transits. It's something that will come with time. I know that my Saturn return made me face some issues about myself by mirroring my behavior in other people. I believe once it reaches Pluto and opposes some personal planets it will have more butt-kicking to do in that department. When Uranus entered my 9th and opposed my Saturn I started delving much deeper into the occult, whereas before I dabbled lazily.
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 4:04 PMThe set up with this is to read Jung. I don't really think that you have to get into a lot of astro-depth to pick up on a lot of this, if you read Jung enough. Actually, he gives you a lot of it. Then it is a matter of being "on guard" or "being aware" of it to make the correspondences and pick up on the parallels. Just like applying metaphors when you read poetry.
With regard to the occult, that is where I see some weaknesses. But perhaps you have not gotten much into QBL and some of the other so-called "secret teachings." If you don't like me, you can talk with Paul about that.
As an aside, I wouldn't touch Quija with a ten-foot pole from another planet, and I make a habit of recommending the same to anyone who brings it up. But that is I. -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 4:07 PMBTW, folks ~ his Red Book is being published. That was his personal and self-illustrated transformation journal that his family has suppressed from public view all these years. The edition is a facsimile, which is a brilliant idea.
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 4:11 PMMy sister and her friend were using a Ouija board when she was about 16 or 17 years old, and my sister told me they asked if Satan was real. My sister's story is that upon asking the question, the little spyglass thingy flew off the board, the board burst into flames, and all that was left of it was the word "yes".
Ouija boards may work fine if someone knows how to properly banish a space and do basic invocations, but it's just not my cup of tea. -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 4:15 PMIt isn't even good for those people, Yoda. The thing is too volatile, unpredictable, and just plain twisted. Too many people who have no clue what they were doing have messed with it. Folks should just leave it alone. -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 4:29 PMWell, there you have it, lol. Case closed. -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 4:34 PMUm. Like I believe that? Hell, no! Probably a whole raft of people will flock to it as a result of my opinion. LOL! But, they also should check out the internet first-hand accounts of it. Believe or not. That thing was badly conceived from the start. I kind of look at it as if you want to court trouble, that's your business, but just know what you might be getting into as a result. And don't be foolish enough to think that you can control it. You tap into the obverse Tree. Not a good idea. -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 4:46 PMI find it funny that you can buy Ouija boards in the same aisle as Connect 4 and Chutes and Ladders and Candyland, lol.
It's like,
"Hey kids, want to subject yourself to the demonic possesion?"
Kid Chorus: "Yeeeeeeeaaaaaaahhhhhhh!
"Well then get some friends together and play the Ouija Board game! All you need is a vulnerable immortal soul, and soon every putrid entity from the Abyss will try and make your physical vehicle home sweet home! Amuse your friends by speaking in tongues! Surprise your mom by writing esoteric prayers on the walls in blood..." -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 4:54 PM"I find it funny that you can buy Ouija boards in the same aisle as Connect 4 and Chutes and Ladders and Candyland, lol."
I know, and I wonder about the types of parents who would even buy a board for their kids. I think part of it is that they don't think that it works, so it's harmless. Actually, thankfully, I would say that it doesn't always work. I have met people who cannot use a Ouija board, for whatever reason. "Spirits" love people like us, though.
I don't really know what they are, but I wouldn't really call them spirits. More like elementals, or demons or something. The one I talked to could read minds and even watched people at my old place of work and told me things that did happen after I left there. It's proof of something, and I take what I can from knowing that (the existence of other matters of energy), but not necessarily something good.
I think it's safer to watch Ghost Hunters... And I have had enough experiences without Ouija, so that I don't need it to validate anything. -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 5:03 PMOuija is best abandoned, to be sure. The entities conjured by it can defy categorization. And their mischief can be a lot more than mischief. It is good to go elsewhere. Astrology, Tarot, QBL ~ they are better friends. -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 9:18 PMIf you believe in the Devil sure..if not, what does it realy matter? Its all the same in someone elses eyes really..no such thing as better "friends" outside of Christs circle.
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 5:04 PM"...I wonder about the types of parents who would even buy a board for their kids."
Seriously! I'd be okay buying a kid a pack of Tarot cards and showing them the ropes, as I think it's a more complete picture book of archtypes and such. But a Ouija Board? Forget it...
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 4:58 PMPrecisely, Yoda. Trix ain't really for kids.
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Unsu...
Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 4:34 PMI will definitely have to check out some Jung. I think now that I have a better grasp of the basics of astrology I am more equipped to understand topics about karma and looking at your own issues that need to be faced (otherwise you will be forced to face them anyway).
No, I don't use Ouija anymore either and haven't for about 5 months. As with most areas of the occult, I don't think it is entirely bad for those who can use it properly, but I am not one of those people. I do think that my Uranus in the 9th transit was some sort of awakening, but part of that is being lured into wrong areas of the occult, or being deceived in that area. Neptune aspects at the same time would definitely strengthen that issue, and I did have those for a while. Neptune especially seems to test you by making a cloud of delusion, so that you think something is right when it is not. Once Neptune goes away, you have to figure out the truth. I would consider astrology to fall under the 9th, as well as magic, and tarot. I mostly go to astrology now when I have a life question. It is safer in many ways, and I try to stay as objective as possible. -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 4:44 PMYou have a very good grasp of astrology, and can do well with that.
IF you are a solitary, you need to know those ways. But I don't know what you are. You know, though, more than likely. Paul is really good to talk with about many things. I am not so hot. LOL! I think a lot of people kind of consider me something of an acquired taste ~ like fermented foods, which frankly, I love.
But becoming familiar with Jung, imo, opens up so much. His writings are vast and technical, and feed off of Freud. You really need to know Freud, too. In spite of what anyone says, I had my own first-hand experience of Freudian therapy at 16, and it was completely fantastic. I can to Jung only after college and on my own. By then, I had been trained in how to read, which, I think, is why I chose the college I did and what I wanted to know how to do. One of they characters in this present mystery play I am describing went to the same school, but after I had already been graduated. He didn't make it through because of the math, which I totally understand. Geez, guys. It wasn't just calculus ~ it was non-Euclidean geometry ~ just deny the fifth postulate and you get what gives you headlights and shit. I thought I would lose my mind, but on my transcript, my best subject was math. The only reason that was true was because the mathematicians didn't get THE POINT. THE POINT, I got, but just couldn't do the math. So I avoided demonstration as best I could and built on what the other folks could do. I could understand it, I just couldn't do it.
WTF? What am I talking about? Oh, yeah, the guy I just met. The antithesis who is so like me ~ at least in that regard. -
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Unsu...
Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 5:50 PMI'm not really sure what I am, but I am also an acquired taste. I am just mostly naturally something, whatever that something is. It runs in my family, and all four of my sisters and I have a little bit of it and were all born during one of the four seasons (earth, air, fire, water) and at 33 min after the hour. I have never made up a spell from a book, or practice other people's teachings... I just do what is natural. And I use Latin in the spells that I have done, which haven't been many. Any spells I have done have been protective, such as for my sisters when their neighbor was killing their cats, and when a sister of mine was being sabotaged at work. I don't really like to use magic, unless I think it helps someone somehow.
And I can understand advanced mathematics being difficult. I barely made it through my BS just because of organic chemistry... Good luck with the antithesis of you who is still like you. I have yet to even meet an eye candy as of late. -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 10:27 PMI don't understand how a piece of cardboard and plastic produced by Milton Bradley can contact spirits from beyond.
That logic led me to create my own ouija board when I was 11, using a petri dish with a magnification disc in the center and a piece of lined paper with the letters/numbers etc. drawn on it. It worked. I contacted a little boy who persistently asked if he could stay in my room. "CAN I STAY CAN I STAY" and I said yes... told my mom I was having a sleepover with a ghost, which freaked her out enough and she told me I shouldn't play with spirits because they'll give me nightmares. So my mom did the ouija "board" with me and told him to leave.
I like this idea of karma and the transits because it's not just singling out Saturn as the karma planet. You guys know a lot more than me, but I enjoy these posts and Teresa and Amiable's sparring. :D -
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Unsu...
Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 10:41 PM"I don't understand how a piece of cardboard and plastic produced by Milton Bradley can contact spirits from beyond."
I don't get it either... and I have used one on my computer before (a Word file and my mouse). Worked better than a board even. I think it has more to do with the person that is communicating, because when I was a kid and I used the Ouija with all of the kids in the neighborhood, there were always issues with certain people. It wouldn't talk to those people and some kids would get too weak from it. It said it needed "strong" people to get energy. It especially didn't like this Catholic girl, which I find to be odd even now. Whenever you talk about religion on a board, they get really weird about it, right? Makes me wonder if there is something to the whole religion thing. Why else would they be so sensitive about it, or get upset? I've straight up asked if there was a God, and I'd get a "maybe," most likely to toy with me. Grr!
I'm glad your mom made the "spirit" leave! -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 10:46 PMYeah, I think she wasn't faking it, either. It was very smooth movement. She has a very strong spirituality but she's not religious. My hands will move by themselves even if I'm just meditating, which led to many embarrassing situations in yoga classes.
I think deep down in every Catholic is an atheist. -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 11:22 PMI think deep down in every person is a pagan. -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 11:45 PMWTF? LOL! I go off to do laundry, and this is what happens to this thread? LOL! You guys crack me up!
Screw Ouija is the bottom line on that one, imo. The End.
IC? Hell, mine, as I recently said, is in Sag, which is complicated by also being my NN. Tell me about that. Or not. I don't see it as relevant.
But, WTF? ROFLMAO! No, I am not bored anymore watching you guys go nuts talking about everything under a Scorpio Sun. LOL!!!!
PARRRTY!
OH, FaF would so get off on this if she were around! Ahahhahahhahha! -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 11:56 PMAnyone interested in a Plutonian Explosion ~my favorite drink at the muddy pub? French Champagne with blackberries dropped delicately into it. Served at the mod party, and so gentile. But what a wallop! LOL! You guys really need to visit my establishment and take advantage of the spa, theater, inn, and herb yurt. I guarantee you a really great time there. And if you would care to be in a production of Hamlet, I am still auditioning folks for parts. Just saying. I really need a Gertrude and Rosencrantz & Gildenstern are till up for grabs. Like to do this by the winter solstice. The Halloween deadline is a lost cause. I'm just saying, you understand. It is just so totally fun there, so if you need a break, there is always the muddy pub. And the critterz there are the sweetest on the whole fucking planet! And that is the complete and totally off-point truth! PFFFFFFT! Sue me!
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 8:57 PM"Is karma about psychic integration? Is the repetition of life "themes" a signal of karma at work, playing out over and over what we don't "master," resolve, reconcile, or integrate in ourselves and seeming to keep resurfacing as a result? "
I would say so. I mean, the retrogrades and how they tend to rehash issues that have not been worked on is an example of this in astrology. One personal example on my chart is Mars opposite MC, and learning to integrate that aspect has been part of the result of Pluto opp. my Sun, part of which was of course learning about the power of my reactions vs. the worldly power of others. How this relates to Mars opposite the MC is coming to the realization that I wasn't being held down by any sort of "man" or societal rule or parental figure, but that I was the energy sabotaging myself (and I really wish astrologers would discuss the IC more). And Pluto oppositions created situation after situation, making it impossible for me to continue without resolving this "karma" (you know this word usually annoys the shit out of me, but I like this extension).
I can't imagine being faced with two people who represent opposite sides of myself. That sounds like some intense mind fuckery. I really hope you post the result of this transit someday. And considering Neptune is involved, could it also be that they both seem to be like you because of Neptunian blurring of boundaries? And perhaps you have to discern what is truly "you" and what is projection or what you desire to be? I haven't looked at your chart with the transits yet, but those are just some ideas that come to mind.
(And I don't know much about Jung.) -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 9:07 PMLaughs aloud at sonah's "intense mind fuckery". -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 2:32 AMHeh, intense mind fuckery is what its all about -
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Unsu...
Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 6:10 AMregards: Heh, intense mind fuckery is what its all about
Heh, perhaps if stuck or manipulating the process .
should be called stop banging on my bathroom door, mind constipation .
potty training ?
Oh Freud ! he seems to always be lurking interwoven in there some where. LOL!
i am beginning to think that he is part of these animus archtypes an unconscious endearments .
my potty training was such a wonderful experience but love has been bittersweet.
I am forever boggled by the potty training process but have gotten quite the knack of it but the wiping can be unpredictable -
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Unsu...
Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 6:22 AMam forever boggled by the potty training process but have gotten quite the knack of it but the wiping can be unpredictable.
maybe not unpredictable but the wiping is never quite the same each time.
the intent of potty training can be seen as a form of sublimation .
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Unsu...
Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 10:04 PM"and I really wish astrologers would discuss the IC more"
I've said the same thing... it's one of the least talked about parts of a chart, IMO. Even the DC isn't talked about much. It's always the AC/MC. As a Cancer ASC, the foundation and roots our existence seems sort of important, eh? -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 10:40 PMWell perhaps we should take into consideration the rising sign and see if there's any direct bearing to the IC. It's pretty obvious in your case considering that you are a Cancer ascendant.
My rising sign is Aquarius, traditionally ruled by Saturn, that would make me a 10th house MC-concentrated person, which incidentally shows up in my chart as such, with Uranus (the modern ruler) at the top of my chart.
I can also be considered quite rootless with all the planets at the top of my chart; that I have had two sets of adopted parents one set of natural parents and no affinity to any of them or any of my siblings. I have moved house 7 times in my short life, and the final place is with my boyfriend which I have the most affinity to. This can also be because of my debilitated moon in Capricorn which according to traditional astrologers, can signify loss of parents at a young age and no real sense of belonging. -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 11:00 PMI know a woman with almost all of her planets in the 9-12 houses. I've never heard of the rootless theory, but it really clicked when you wrote that in regards to her. She doesn't have adopted parents, but her father was absent and then he died a couple years ago without her ever reconciling with him. Her ASC is Leo, and her Sun is in the 9th house conjunct NN, Jupiter, and the MC in Aries and her moon is in 10th house Aries (oddly considering aries rules the head and war, her father died of a brain aneurysm and both her parents were in the military).
I wish I knew more about the IC, too. My mother's Pluto is conjunct my IC, for instance, and it'd be interesting to know what that means.
Where is your Uranus Saber? -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 11:04 PMUranus is in Scorpio, 10th house right on the MC and it doesn't have any harsh aspects any of my other natal planets. My moon in Capricorn is fairly near the 11th house cusp. Some people still consider it to be a 10th house moon. -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 11:10 PMwhoa, that sounds very strong. Do you think that the outer planets that are prominent in a natal chart mean that planet will have more sway in transit? The first thing I think of is it might make the outer planet transit easier... because you're used to it's influence already. Sort of like non-karma. Like for myself, I have a strong Saturn. Saturn transits don't give me a whole lot of trouble. It went over my Venus a few months ago and I barely noticed lol -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 11:17 PMHas your Saturn return been uneventful?
And traditionally as I mentioned Aquarius is traditionally ruled by Saturn, so technically speaking I am also a Saturnine person. Saturn is debilitated in Virgo (but exalted by house, in my 7th house), but it's also trining my Capricorn moon so the moon is in Saturn's triplicity.
However, Saturnine transits have been quite life changing as well where I am concerned; is it because of my Saturn return? Or is it amplified by transiting Uranus movement in opposition to Saturn?
Is it because I cope better with changes no matter how dramatic? I don't think you can really ignore such transits, especially if you are right in the smack of a Saturn return like me.
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 11:11 PMThat said karma is also about the lot that you are born with and can't quite change immediately; such as parents and siblings that you are both with, the environment that you grow up in and the limitations of that.
That said yes, I think it is important that the IC is duly considered in the consideration of karma. -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 12:57 AM****It is a synthesis of sort, though ~ I agree to that. Whether the balance becomes a blend or or not is something I can't predict. ***
Beleive me or not, whenever I get to feel relieved with believing I have reached some synthesis, I'm being proved opposites cannot be bleded and harmonized. They can at best be complementary.
I'll take a look at your chart again. I know this is a typical neptunean situation - it may be triggered by transit (it was in my case, when neptune squared both my sun and mars - talk about multiple animus projection ;) or by a particular aspect in the chart that manifest as a repetitive pattern.
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 1:08 AM***I wish I knew more about the IC, too. My mother's Pluto is conjunct my IC, for instance, and it'd be interesting to know what that means. ***
It might mean that up to some extent she controlled your soul.
IC is the deepest, most hidden part of you (together with moon sign and aspects..), as far as I know. The sign and the planets there may not be so obviously a part of you, but they're definitely defining and you may be the only one who knows it.
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Thu, November 19, 2009 - 3:55 PMThe IC and "rootless" discussions captured my interest. I also really wish I knew more about the IC. I get the gist of it, I think, but I've always found it a bit elusive and perplexing, nonetheless.
I hadn't thought of an above-the-horizon orientation as feeling 'rootless' before, but that's pretty fascinating and makes sense to me. My girlfriend has all of her planets above the horizon and I have all but my Moon and Pluto (6th) above the horizon. [I've been speculating about if you could consider either/both of us 'rootless' and I think there are some apparent ways of elaborating upon that, but it would be a bit of a ramble, so I won't for the time being.] Also, interestingly, we both have our Venuses conjunct each others' ICs.
I could see how that might be interpreted as us keeping each other 'rooted.' We feel VERY at home and comfortable together. Lately, though, I've been scared about the fact that we've also been spending a lot of our time holed up together taking it easy rather than pursuing our outside goals and that's been making us too codependent and discouraged with our individual lack of progress on our various plans and dreams. I really don't want to think that we inherently hold each other back; there must be some achievable sort of balance. Being together is absolutely like being at 'home.' But it's hard to leave home to do the other things that give life meaning and allow for individual expression when home is just so damned comfortable and leaving home puts a bit of a strain on things...
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 1:04 AM***I can't imagine being faced with two people who represent opposite sides of myself. That sounds like some intense mind fuckery. I really hope you post the result of this transit someday. And considering Neptune is involved, could it also be that they both seem to be like you because of Neptunian blurring of boundaries?***
Maybe. The blurring (or the breaking) of boundaries that separate one's consciousness from the so-called collective uncnscious. It's not necessarily something bad, but many people involved there may not understandit it as such or handle it properly.
***And perhaps you have to discern what is truly "you" and what is projection or what you desire to be?***
No, rather to discern what's actually them and what's a projection of your own irrational (animus/anima). But my guess is that, since the whole deal erupts like this, there is some sort of animus/anima identification, not only some naive and chaotic projection (I mean age is also important ... and when one is not 15, chances are that one isnot ruled by one's animus/anima, but actually seeing through/inside people involved) -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 1:59 AM***My chart is posted. I have a 2H Libra Neptune singleton that forms a variety of aspects, including a sextile to my 12H Sun/Pluto conjunction and squares to Uranus and my Moon/Chiron conjunction and to my Cap BML. But, no, I don't know what you are seeing about Neptune. But if you see something in the chart, feel free to say so. Perhaps just that this scenario has come up at all is Neptunian? Maybe. It just looks like something else to me.***
Amiable,
You do have T Neptune opposing your natal Sun and Pluto. To me that's enough and it makes sense - T neptune only triggers animus identification, actually activates your animus figures, whichever they are, it doesn't mean that the men you come across have a neptunean component. Natal Neptune singleton, moon square neptune and 12th house sun do give you considerable neptunean energy. But it's visible even only by your eyes and facial expression. -
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Sat, October 31, 2009 - 3:52 AMLOL! A professional astrologer once looked into my eyes when he first met me and said he saw Neptune. That struck me as so funny.
Well, it seems to me that has it just managed to make me seem sexy. And yeah, that complicates things. And you are right ~ it is not their problem, it is mine, at the end of the day. What I am saying from my Aqua Moon here is that what interests me about all this is very mental, cerebral, intellectual, analytical. I find what is happening fascinating on that level. Aqua Moon, Virgo rising, Virgo Mercury Mercury chart ruler. The mind to me is totally sexy. Uranus stirs things up opposing that Aqua moon. But I have to say that all that is sexy to me is really in my mind.
Ya gotta meet me in mind. It is really the only way I can become addicted. Neptune may suck them in, but they will have to cope with Uranus at the end of the day. The Pluto Sun in 12H Leo? I'm just saying that I have yet to meet a man who wants to go there with me or dares to do that. And that's really okay. I am 53 now, and I just don't give a shit. If I died tomorrow, that would be fine because I feel I have and am now doing my bit. This is all gravy. Total gravy. God forbid that I ever fall in love again, since I am positive that would be completely disastrous. But the likelihood of that is so remote, that it really doesn't bother me. I have only suffered that twice in my life, an never with anyone I married, and I did that three times. No. The likelihood of your crazy aunt amiablehermit getting into Neptune waters is quite remote. She is essentially a high forest gal who likes her time to herself. Hell! The prospect of having to share space and time with anyone just freaks her out! This is an interesting adventure, but I seriously doubt that anything will come of it but some new language for me ~ at best. Honestly, I have no expectations of people and expect none of them. Shit! After all this time and all my experiences? LOL! A comfy closure in Astroville sounds swell to me with FaF's magic pink thermos of hot ruddered bums and LOTZ's holographic harem processing up Axis Street to the planetarium for their Lodge meetings and Captain Chiron in his mobile home welcoming his Christmas visitors and varoom chatting away at the kitchen table borrowing a cup of sugar and my passing out in front of my fire pit at my own Halloween party and dreaming Loreena McKinnet songs while meanwhile the Large Hadron Particle Collider in the basement of my tesseract 12th House is perking away, even though my library keeps going missing, but Makaranda and FaF will help me drag out the magic carpet from my cupboard to help steveo see his baby daughter in Australia ~ and I really can't complain about of anything really. I just think almost nobody gets me except people who just don't fucking care if I happen to make sense or not.
Now tell me, what possible chance do I have getting either of these two gentlemen, as they most certainly are, to buy into the likes of me? LOL! Would you???? I can't imagine anyone but myself living with myself, so the issue is ~ really ~ just how far do I let anyone partake of the whimsical chaos that is who I am? Yeah, I do see Neptune here, as you say, but Neptune just blanches all nuts, doesn't he? So who can care? LOL! Not I anymore. Sorry, but even psychic integration or reconciling of opposites or THE GRAIL QUEST looks hilarious to me. Because I find myself such a joke all the way around. Now talk to me about forced organ transplants or the usurping of Americans' civil liberties by wormy acts of Congress, and you have a whole new ballgame. I am willing to die violently for that kind of stuff. -
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Sat, October 31, 2009 - 6:56 AMLOL, do you always just swing from one state of mind to another like this?
I'm no astrologer, but I do see neptune in your eyes. Initially I figured you've got neptune rising or some strong aspect from neptune to your AC. But moon-neptune also makes sense. So the uranus influence on your moon is stronger? neptune is also about 'the mind' and 'internal world', though a rather affectively structured one. Neptuneans are always marked with the print of duality (2 opposing tendencies, 2 possible destinies, 2 parallel lives, 2 people they deeply love in a lifetime, etc.). Do you see yourself in any of this?
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Sat, October 31, 2009 - 7:22 AM***God forbid that I ever fall in love again, since I am positive that would be completely disastrous. But the likelihood of that is so remote, that it really doesn't bother me. I have only suffered that twice in my life, an never with anyone I married, and I did that three times.***
What happened the 2 times you fell in love? what were the men like? why would it be disastruous if it happened again? -
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Re: ~
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 9:59 AMThe first one I fell in love with at first sight when I was very young as he was being arrested. The second one vanished on me a little after a year about ten years ago. The first one was a mixed up kid with a lot of emotional problems. The second one likewise needed to change his life, and ours turned out to be his transitional relationship. I don't think I need quite so much excitement in life these days; however, iI understand that there are no guarantees ~ including doom ~ so I will put myself out there anyway. Maybe having acquired a little wisdom in these years will make whatever happens a little easier.
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Sat, October 31, 2009 - 10:07 AMAnd the others were just relationships without love? -
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Re: ~
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 10:16 AMLet's say that none of them packed the sort of emotional punch these two did. These were the ones where I felt true passion. -
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Re: ~
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 12:32 PMAnd how do you distinguish between 'true passion' and other kind of 'emotional communication'? (oh, I don't even now if for you passion has an emotional basis or is purely physical)
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 11:42 AM"Maybe. The blurring (or the breaking) of boundaries that separate one's consciousness from the so-called collective uncnscious. It's not necessarily something bad, but many people involved there may not understandit it as such or handle it properly."
this is very true for me right now. I am in this shamanism class, we're working on soul journey right now..and we're encouraged to share our experiences each class. A lot of people in the class seem to be struggling a lot, and theres some people who cry everytime they talk about their lives. Its been so challenging for me, because I am not good at separating myself from the stories i hear. I feel so drained when i leave class, sometimes i feel disappointed because i wasn't able to focus on my own self as much as id like. i think i need to find a way to relate yet focus on myself still. building boundaries seems sort of awkward to me, i am not in the habit of being present when i need to be, i tend to naturally be a sponge. i have neptune square sun natally, and transiting pluto conjunct neptune and square sun right now. my natal neptune is in the 11th house, which i think represents this group of college students im in, and my natal sun is in the 1st house which touches on my feeling like i am not getting what i need out of the class, i am not being selfish enough to keep my self grounded in the experience, so i really need to start visualizing clear boundaries in class, and focus on grounding myself when i feel others emotions, its time for me to start healing myself, breathing and concentration. i know one day, long away from now, i will probably work in some field of healing others, so at least i know this is going to be good practice for a future goal, that helps! -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 12:49 PMBabyE,
Could you by any chance explain to me what your being a 'sponge' and the 'lack of boundaries' mean in the concrete sense? It's never been clear to me why people with prominent neptune feel this way. -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 1:14 PMhmm, this is very hard to explain!
its just that i think pisces people are so languid, and get pulled easily, easily up, easily down. the world is full of symbols that lead either way. i think we just take everything in, it depends on what else is aspected in your chart and how exactlly you use what you take in, or maybe i should say how you've learned how to use/organize deal with what you're taking in. i think all of us have to learn how to make the best of our pisces influence wherever it may be in a chart... i hope this makes sense! -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 2:25 PMWhat do you mean by 'taking in'? what other people feel, say, what exactly? -
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Unsu...
Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 4:24 PM
amiahermit
What happened here ?
guess for me its off to the valley of no shadows clutching my sandwich.
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 6:00 PMLOL! just kidding around some .
Happy Halloween -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 6:20 AMI'm dealing with three of my animi in my book. I'm going through a Neptune in 1st house transit. -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 10:23 PMI'm getting the Neptune thing now so that I can recognize it ~ T Neptune opp N Sun/Puto conjunction conjunct T Leo Moon.
So, this could possibly suggest that Neptune may have a distinct hand in the manifestation of an autonomous archetyal image or images. In your book, Lady Saber, do you connect the appearance of the animi with the start of a state of transformation? If so, is the transformation "predictable," or does it bring about something unexpected? I ask because I sense a feeling of liberation taking hold of me, but it is not quite what I had imagined. I think it is larger than I imagined, actually.
At the risk of sounding cryptic, but for the sake of conciseness, I would put it as initially a sense of healing a raw wound through confronting a paradox ~ seeing that what you desired most was not even the most to desire, and then, spell broken, a gust of wind blows through the soul to reveal that desire itself might be just a response to beholding the archetype, even imperfectly. What becomes of desire then? What does it mean after that? -
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Sun, November 15, 2009 - 1:23 PMtribes.tribe.net/visionart...dc3480aabc
personal mythology
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 11:41 AMAmiable,
I'm not hugely familiar with Jungian archetypes, but I thought i would have ago at my Anima, since there are some very clear transits coinciding with key points in my marriage. I was originally going to focus just on Venus but noticed some other interesting stuff as well.
My wife and met in Feb 2001, and our relationship was cemented in June of that year, when she invited me on a European trip which her friend had backed out of. I never usually look at Pallas Athena in interpretation, but it does seem appropriate that it transited its own natal position in my chart at both of these times (give or take 2 weeks). She happens to be particularly obsessed with the goddess Athena herself, and her favorite cat which passed way several years before and features regularly in her conversation, dreams and paintings shares that name!
Right in between these two transits, Transiting Venus formed a kind of Grand Trine with my natal Venus trine Neptune, setting off my latent romantic idealism. (Meanwhile Mars and Pluto were crossing my natal Neptune, which I could attribute to a bit more reckless drinking and drugging at the time than I have had the pleasure of being engaged in at any other time in my life!)
Anyway we got married shortly after that in Arizona, where she is from, and (due to visa problems) moved back to Ireland shortly after. We planned to move back to Arizona as soon as we could, but the birth of our daughter (as well as visa problems) postponed this for several years. The day we finally made the trip back was within a few days of Saturn crossing my natal Venus, which happens to be in my 9th house. I don't think the symbolism there needs too much expalnation!
Disclaimer: All the transits I used are calculate sidereally btw, it's the only way I use them.
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 9:49 PMI'm starting to get to grips with the archetypes after I found this site: rgsmedicalinsight.homestead.com/ar...tml
Maybe I will be able to post something a little more relevant to the topic later!
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Re: Archetypes Manifesting through Transits
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 7:56 PMHere is a good summation of Archetypes that might make things a little clearer, too.
www2.cnr.edu/home/bmcmanus/approach.html
