Lilith in a Males Chart

Yeah, I don't jack about Lillith other than the myth

Mine's in Aquarius.

I may be a ManLesbian

~V~

So I am supposed to fear Scorpio women? That's odd, I don't feel any fear, but I do feel a lot of attraction, and quite a bit of camaraderie with them. Would you be willing to take a look at my placement too? It's here:

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*grin*

Thanks MaryEllen....

I'll have to give some thought as to how to interpret that.

~V~

Mem,

I found this article not to long ago on the web thats pretty intresting... (in that first artilce that fear of woman that drives you over the edge... I don't understand, I am crused with thinking outloud, and would put that woman in her place ..... as if it were any man who were that way too!!) I'll amit though, it is usally the opposite way. I am a traditionalist at heart, no doubts, and some of the most wildest personalities are attracted to me, but I got some sort of mellowing effect, as they can never find a reason to be pissed at me :P !!! (Well not for long) Right now I am living with a sweetheart who has Lilith conjuct her 7th house cusp Aquarius, opposed to Pluto in Leo.

Thank you very much Mem for that infomation. Everytime I try to study anything on Lilith, it is always in Dutch or in French. I have been casting astrology charts since I was 8 years old, and I do make some money on the side off of it, but mostly all my clients are Europeans. It was some of my astro buddies over there that stressed my lilith, but kept on telling me to read books not in English... CONSPERICY!!! I CRY CONSPERICY!!! lol

Laugher is the way I connect my Soul with my Spirit, when you have nothing else to loose, all you got left is laugher :).

-NOW THIS IS ALL AN ARTICLE -
(beginning isn't pasted)
www.antonialangsdorf.de/dateie...say.php

The astrological and psychological interpretation is mainly based on the story of Lilith as Adams first wife who preferred a wild and free existence in the land of the demons to the illusory idyll of paradise. Important for the interpretation is the moment of pain and revenge: Lilith had been punished just because she acted in a free and self-determined way. In her pain and anger, she takes revenge on Adam, symbolizing all the men. She also took revenge on Eve, symbolizing all the nice, servile women who betray their ideals of freedom and equality by adapting themselves to the male demands. In a way, Eve was smarter than Lilith in all her radical honesty: Eve acted nice and servile, but later she seduced Adam to try the apple from the forbidden tree - and than shared a life outside of paradise with him. Thus, Lilith also stands for a form of independence, that may cause some loneliness or force the chart-owner to get in with the wrong crowd, symbolized by the demons. In the traditional astrological literature about the black moon, Lilith is mostly described as representing the dark part of the female being. She appears as a demonic, dark goddess, as a destrucitve, psychic trouble-maker, the ultimate femme fatale, the mean seducer, she is a rogue, she wants revenge, she kills the newborn - really a very diabolic image. A good example for a typical Lilith figure is the biblical tale of Salome, the daughter of Herod. With her power of seduction and intrigue she caused the horrible dead of John the Baptist by decapitation.

1.3.The view has changed
Meanwhile, this one-sided view of Lilith has changed. Women's Liberation and the evolution of society in general, but also the rediscovery of the power of nature and the new belief in witchcraft and old rituals - all that opens up new ways for us to get Lilith out of her life in the shadow and integrate her into ours. For me the new picture of Lilith shows best in the process of birth, which is the most original female action altogether. It's a very painful process with very earthy feelings but at the same time something highly spiritual, an incredible break-through. A natural birth shows many clichés of darkness: It's full of blood, painful, slimy, frightening, archaic and - out of control! You have to use very rough chemical or physical methods to intervene in the process of birth. The delivery releases enormous power which the woman has to surrender to. We should not forget that not long ago every birth was a matter of life and death and that the woman at childbirth had a high risk to die or to lose her child. In addition, mother and child have to take the first, far-reaching step to separation, until birth, they shared one body. For the newborn, it's the first step into future independence. When the woman holds the child in her arms, we have the picture of the exhausted, yet happy euphoric mother in great relief. A transformation happened: From the animal like, earthy woman who drives out the child into the bad world into the lovely mother Mary.

If you take the rhythm of the Lilith-cycle you find that it takes approx. 9 years (8 Years and 311 days to be exact) to cross all signs and in each sign, Lilith stays for exactly 9 months. This indicates Lilith's strong relation to the female pregnancy period of time. There also seems to be a relationship with the nodal axis: One Lilith cycle is approximately half a nodal cycle. And whereas the nodal axis results from the lunar orbit crossing the ecliptic, Lilith results from the lunar orbit revolving the earth.

1.4. The female power
I believe that Lilith represents one part of the female trinity: The original, earthy and unspoiled part, the female power as such. Besides Eve, the symbol of the wife, the companion of the man and Mary, the idealized mother, Lilith reflects just that, which man cannot tame and which he - especially the male - therefore with all his might tried to suppress and to demonize. The separation of women into the holy and the whore is still common - and of course, Lilith plays the part of the whore here - the part which men and society desire and need but at the same time fear and repress. I think Lilith also represents the witches and the magic women, the midwifes and the wise women of the Middle Ages, who had been ostracized or killed because of their knowledge of contraception, birth and health care. Lilith as a witch was burnt at the stake, Lilith becomes ritually circumcised and deprived of her clitoris, Lilith has been covered up in the burka among the Taliban. The modern, western world uses medicine, personal hygiene and science as an excuse for the attempt to tame Lilith and to put her out of action: Women are systematically treated in a way to get them out of the habit of listening to their body and using their natural instincts. A good example are frightening methods of pre-natal care that make the pregnant women wax in the hands of the doctors instead of enabling them to discover the strength of their bodies. I do not deny that cesarean section saved countless lives of childbearing women - but the decision for this method is often made in a haste or it turns out to be redundant altogether. There are many more unnecessary manipulations of the birth process that deprive the woman from the chance to experience birth as a source of strength. And last but not least the pill! Three decades of experience with the pill have shown, that this male invention brought sexual freedom at the woman's expense: The pill works in a way that separates the woman from her natural body feelings and throws her off her hormonal and emotional balance. Women who take the pill pay for their sexual freedom with extremely heavy physical and mental side-effects. A very important threshold in the life of a woman is when she gets her first period. In modern society, there exists no appropriate ritual to help the girl in this phase, it has become purely a medical and hygienic problem. Each mother stands on her own how to handle it and the chance for a great initiation is gone. Besides, it's popular to ridicule the goddess: The blue testing fluid in the advertising for tampons and panty liners, feminine spray and other hygienic excesses are likely to offend the goddess and minimize her power.

A more optimistic picture
I will now try to paint a more positive, modern picture of Lilith. In my view, she represents a combination of the magic power of the dark goddess, the female instinct and the endeavor to be equal to the male. In the female chart, the embodiment of the ideal Lilith seems to be the woman, who is strong and consciously using her instincts, who is in monthly contact with her own blood, who takes control of her sexual power, who knows the rhythms of her body and controls contraception and pregnancy, whether she wants children or not, and if so, has no fear to give birth and experience this tour de force as a source of female strength. In the sexual act, she is sometimes above the male and sometimes below, just goes with the flow in the free interplay of forces between her and her partner. It's pretty obvious that a woman like that experiences conflicts when she gets into company with traditional-minded women and insecure men. She has to find her own way to live her forces in relationships and society.

The ideal Lilith has her effect on the male chart by making him attracted and attractive to strong women. A fair contact with proud and impressive women is no problem for him. A sign for a positive development of Lilith in the male horoscope seems to be, that more and more men get involved in the adventure of being there at child-birth, to consciously accompany their partner, to stand at her side throughout this deeply touching experience and to remain strong in the face of this female initiation. A typical remark of somebody with underdeveloped Lilith-forces concerning birth would be: "No I can't look at it - I wouldn't be able to feel sexual desire for my partner any more!"

No Illusions
But even with this more positive picture we should not have any illusions about the fact, that experiences with transiting as well as natal Lilith are often connected to feelings of pain and agony. That brings us back to the myth: Lilith cannot forget, that she was punished and tortured just because she wanted to act freely and according to her own will. That shows why Lilith often brings us into contact with uncontrollable emotions, desire for revenge and frightening sides of sexuality: That is whenever we got to the point where we had to give in, because as children we were in an inferior position or as adults we may have suppressed our true being because of social pressure, cowardice or indolence. However: Transiting Lilith confronts us with the pain that appears because we realize that we didn't live out our true nature - because we didn't want or were not allowed to be who we really are. This also seems to have a connection to the issue of homosexuality - especially when it's hidden or suppressed. In this case Lilith forces the chart-owner to stand by himself and be honest about his sexual preferences. My colleague Lianella Livaldi-Laun who has been working with Lilith for more then 10 years and has published two books about the black moon, mentions several cases in which Lilith in the male horoscope may indicate a hidden or obvious homosexuality and the fight to for acceptance.

1.5. Natal Lilith
Concerning natal Lilith, I have noticed, that she is very strong in artists horoscopes. In general, we find her dominant in the charts of powerful, creative, personalities who live a life apart from social norms and conventions, quite successfully but yet vulnerable or sensitive in their feelings. They tend to have unconventional relationships ore end up living as a maverick because they are not willing to make any compromise. In the chart of women who have Lilith in hard aspects to the moon or in the 5th house she may also indicate general problems with pregnancy and childbirth - either the chart-owner suffers from miscarriage or she does not want to be pregnant or is afraid of motherhood.

1.6. Transiting Lilith
Transiting Lilith often brings experiences of pain or loss. I observed that she plays her part in miscarriage, abortion, childlessness as well as acts of violence or fateful death. I also assume that she may be involved with rape. But in contact with Lilith we can also have the most incredible experiences of initiation and as we know from the esoteric teaching, initiation is rarely a funny and relaxed event!

1.7. Lilith in relationships
Lilith is no joke in relationships! Most people are not conscious about the forces of the goddess, much less, having integrated them. Thus, a date under the influence of Lilith may grow into a dangerous liaison, into painful, intense, obsessive or strange love affairs. Often it's a matter of male or female self-esteem, of power and powerlessness and of radical break-through. Lilith often uncovers hidden structures of suppression and confronts the partners with their true desires which they haven't lived out. If you look at Lilith under the aspect of being radically honest about your sexuality and your true feelings, its obviously not easy to get along in peace and harmony in a relationship when she is dominant.

2. Lilith in the houses

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2.5. Lilith in the 9th house
Lilith in the 9th house finds response in society. Here her instinctive self-assertiveness is motivated religiously, philosophically or politically. We find here the demand of the 9th house, that society should take over one's own behavior as a main thread or perspective. Basically, Lilith is as a very personal, charismatic energy, and if you act it out in the 9th house it may also lead to fanaticism or dogmatism. You turn your own view into the leading ideology and with Lilith you express this with much charisma, even to the degree of being dangerous. So we find Lilith in 9 in the chart of Adolf Hitler. Christian Klar, one of the heads of the former German terrorist group RAF had Lilith in 9. Interesting is also, that iron Lady Margaret Thatcher had Lilith in the house of politics. Prince Charles, whose political and philosophical abitions do not amuse the queen, has his Lilith in 9. And a great artist with Lilith in 9 confronted us in his powerful paintings with strange new perspectives: Salvador Dali.

The most impressive Lilith case I have in my collection also shows Lilith in the 9th house. The name of the chart-owner is Marianne Bachmeier. In her life the goddess showed in a highly emotional, archaic and tragic way. The story is terrible, yet poetic. Marianne Bachmeier became famous because she shot the murderer of her daughter in the courtroom. Two films had been made of her story. She became the secret idol for victimized mothers and children, an avenging angel, a heroine. Violence was a central thread in her life, starting in her childhood. As a girl, she was raped and became pregnant. They put her into a children's home and she had to give the child away for adoption. In this facility, she was raped a second time with ensuing pregnancy and again had to give away the child. In the age of 23 she gave birth to her daughter Anna. Then the ultimate horror: At the age of 7, Anna was killed in a sex crime. The perpetrator had been caught and one year later the incredible happened: During the trial, Marianne Bachmeier calmly stood up, pulled out a pistol she had smuggled and fired eight shots at the offender. Six bullets hit his back. Afterwards, she said into the silence: " I wanted to make sure I kill him. Actually I wanted to shoot him in the face" and let security arrest her without any resistance. With this act she became a public heroine. The sentence was mild: 6 Years for manslaughter and they let her go after three years. At the age of 43 she got cancer. She was working at terminal care at that time. She died at the age of 46. She had asked a friend of hers who was a journalist to accompany her dying with the camera.

In the Chart we find Lilith here at the cusp of the 9th house in conjunction with mercury, squaring Pluto and in Trine with the moon. Mars at the ascendant tells us something about the potential for violence in this life, here he stands for the unconditional acting on emotional impulses. If we are generous with the orbs we also identify a grand trine between Mars/IC, Lilith/Mercury and the moon. Among other things, the 9th house is also relevant for justice. And it points to the outside, into society. For Marianne Bachmeier, her desire for revenge was more than a personal feeling. She didn't shoot the murderer in the heat of the moment. In conjunction with Mercury, Lilith acted well-planned here. And Bachmeier wanted to tell and show the world what she was doing. Indeed this act had something grand, philosophical, Jupiter-like, because Marianne took revenge symbolically for all mothers who ever experienced the terrible loss of a child by crime. She acted in a way others may have dreamt of but wouldn't dare to. Of course its strictly forbidden to take the law in ones own hands. But her act was very popular and she had - appropriate to the 9th house - made her self an executor for a real public demand in the face of the most dreadful of crimes - sex crime against children. Becoming a hero by an act of violence - this is in the chart also expressed within the square between Lilith in 9 and Pluto in 11.

Let's also take a look at the charts of the events in this case. If we take the synastry between Mariannes birth chart and the murder of her daughter, we see transiting Lilith in the 1st house at the south node, forming a square with natal Uranus. At the same time, the Sun activated natal Lilith and her square to natal Pluto.

The day Marianne took revenge we see destiny at work with the nodes on the MC-Ascendant-axis and in T-Square to Lilith. Interesting as well is the trine to Venus at the cusp of 11: Maybe an indicator for the positive resonance by women? And if you watch the new moon constellation squaring the Ascendant you have a symbol for the great power of renewal that the act probably had for Marianne.

Compared to Mariannes natal chart, we find that the trine between Lilith and Venus also reaches natal Jupiter: For Marianne, this murder was deeply meaningful. I think that the nodal axis with north node here in 11 also had some impact on the natal Square between Lilith and Pluto. In addition, we have the current Mars at the DC opposing the natal Mars-Ascendant-conjunction and in sextile to the Lilith-Mercury conjunction - that probably increased Mariannes readiness for active violence. The square from Neptune probably symbolized the fantasies that preceded the final act. The stellium of planets in the 6th house may have pointed out that for Marianne this act was essential, a need for survive. The square from transiting Pluto to natal Moon also indicates that here a fate was sealed. And even terminator Saturn was involved: We find him in conjunction with Jupiter at the south node. When 14 years later, Saturn hit the north node, it was exactly when Marianne passed away. That shows once again that you would never watch Lilith isolated. But as in all the cases shown here, she is the clue to a deeper understanding of the story.

www.antonialangsdorf.de/dateie...say.php

I have lilth in the eighth house in Gemini -I am not sure that fear is a good word for lilth.
Lilth seems pretty alluring and magnetic rather than fearful, perhaps the undercurrents of its tide and potential for control is what I am aware of and with it I become a little wary and just little curious at the same time