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Hi, I'm an amateur so please forgive me if this question is silly. I'm wondering if there is a way to calculate a more accurate birth time if someone was not born on the meridian of a time zone. For example the hour's difference between the Maine end of EST until it reaches Central. I'm asking because four minutes would make the difference between me having an Aries versus a Pisces rising sign, which I feel more aligned to. Thanks for your help!
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Re: Calculating exact birth time
Thu, October 8, 2009 - 11:49 PMWhy 4 minutes Ara? -
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Re: Calculating exact birth time
Fri, October 9, 2009 - 12:38 AMWell, I mean that I am an Aries rising, but had I been born 4 minutes earlier, I would be Pisces. So I'm wondering if, since I was born in New York City, and the time zone begins further East, can I account for the difference and push my rising sign back into Pisces? -
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Re: Calculating exact birth time
Fri, October 9, 2009 - 1:06 AMAra
Astrology programs generally take into account your time zone when calculating your chart.
If your time and place of birth are correct, and it says you're an aries rising, you ARE an aries rising.
It might well be that your mars is poorly aspected or that you've got a strong pisces element somewhere else in your chart (such as planets in pisces or perhaps neptune aspects). -
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Re: Calculating exact birth time
Fri, October 9, 2009 - 5:54 AMOf course, Paul, as you mentioned, this assumes that the birth time was precisely recorded, but it could be slightly off for all anybody knows. With such a short span of time between one sign and the other, I would be inclined to figure that she may well have the qualities of both signs, and I would go more with what she picks up on about herself ~ assuming of course, that she is thoroughly familiar with the traits of both signs. I would test both against what she knows of herself.
It is important to know the other aspects, too, as you say, since there could be much mitigating the self-perception, but if they are not, this ambiguity I think could be accounted for along the lines that I described. Again, it is impossible to know what is going on when the chart is not available. -
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Re: Calculating exact birth time
Fri, October 9, 2009 - 6:09 AMPersonally I believe that people born so close to the cusp share some of the aspects of the other sign, but not everyone does.
I think, either way, the best 'test' is to study the chart for any other factors that might account for the difference and make sure you understand the potentials of each sign and measure this against yourself. Because it's the ascendant you might ask others who know you.
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Re: Calculating exact birth time
Fri, October 9, 2009 - 12:38 AMWell, I mean that I am an Aries rising, but had I been born 4 minutes earlier, I would be Pisces. So I'm wondering if, since I was born in New York City, and the time zone begins further East, can I account for the difference and push my rising sign back into Pisces? -
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Re: Calculating exact birth time
Fri, October 9, 2009 - 10:50 AMI don't think it matters how close to either time zone border you were born. As far as time zones is concerned: As long as you input the right one (which is usually done automatically), you should get the right chart. It's all up to your exact location really. The chart calculating algorithms calculates in relation to your exact place of birth, not in relation to your time zone. The only reason why time zones is involved, is so that you can synchronise the universal time with the time on your birth certificate.
Either way, 4 minutes isn't much, so you could be a Pisces rising if your time of birth isn't accurate enough. If your birth time says something like 8:44 AM, then it's probably quite accurate, but if it says 8:45 AM, it's probably not. And then the hospital clock could've been a few minutes ahead too. I mean, to a astrologer it would be a priority to make sure the hospital clocks are accurate, but for "normal" people it usually isn't a priority.
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Re: Calculating exact birth time
Fri, October 9, 2009 - 5:23 PMI see where I got confused. I do have Moon conjunct Neptune and Neptune trine Ascendant, maybe this accounts for my leaning to Pisces? Thanks again for your help. -
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Re: Calculating exact birth time
Sat, October 10, 2009 - 9:29 AMI can totally relate to this. My time of birth says 8:55pm and makes me a Pisces rising(barely). If I was actually born 2-3 minutes sooner, which is very possible, I would be an Aquarius rising. When I first learned about this stuff I went out and read about both and could not figure out which one was correct as I have traits for both.
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Re: Calculating exact birth time
Sat, October 10, 2009 - 1:00 PMI knew a girl once who had her sun at 0.00' Pisces, and she said she felt like a Aquarius *and* a Pisces, and she seemed to demonstrate the same. I think of the signs as evolutionary processes which flow one to the next, and some of the constellations overlap, so it's really a matter of studying and deciding which one you identify with, or both. Some astrologers say you either have to be or the other, but I like to think that the person knows themself better than the astrologer.
Having said that, whether the sun or ascendant is on a cusp, the other planets and their aspects may make the native feel more like one side of the coin over the other. So, if a person has an ascendant at 28.59' Aquarius, but their other points and aspects are heavy on the Pisces side, the natural course of chart progressions would make me comfortable with either identification. It just means that their early life inclined them to manage their Piscean tendencies with more of an Aquarian edge, and they eased comfortably into the Pisces role by the time they reached adulthood. This example would probably mean the native had more airy Aquarian intellectual development in their early life than someone born with a 1 degree Pisces ascendant, but they'd still be very Pisces.
In a nutshell, I think people with cusp aspects can have both of the sign qualities pertaining to the signs between the cusp(s) in question. I don't think things have to be black and white. I really hope that all made sense, lol. -
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Re: Calculating exact birth time
Sat, October 10, 2009 - 4:55 PMThat's interesting, how some people can relate to two "opposite" signs at the same time.
I have a 29.15~ deg Aries Sun, but I don't relate to being half-Taurus at all. My father have a Taurus Sun, and I see a clear difference between us, even though we share the same Moon, Mercury and Mars signs. I'm just too spirited for being a half Taurus Sun. I can walk long distances no problem if it saves me time. If I have to decide between taking a 20 minute quick walk over waiting for 15 minutes for a 5 minute bus ride (or whatever), then I'd rather take the long walk, not because I'm a exercise nut. I just find walking less boring. I walk pretty fast too, atleast most ppl tell me so. Actually, I just looked up the charts of two friends who I remember being fast and intensive walkers, and guess what. They both have Aries Moons. Maybe that's what I like about them. They don't slow me down.
Maybe my Sun isn't close enough to the Taurus cusp, who knows.. Either way, based on my own experiences, I don't believe in the cusp theory, but I could be wrong. -
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Re: Calculating exact birth time
Sat, October 10, 2009 - 6:50 PMI accept a person's experience over cusp theory. Sometimes cuspers feel like both signs, sometimes they don't.
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Re: Calculating exact birth time
Wed, December 2, 2009 - 6:31 PMNice, I'm an Aries moon also and I LOVE to walk fast... it gets on my Leo Moon girlfriend's nerves (she doesn't like being left behind) :)
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Re: Calculating exact birth time
Sat, October 10, 2009 - 2:20 PMIf you want to do some research you could:
Find out how many miles wide the time zone is. Divide one hour by that number. Find out how many miles into the time zone you are. Multiply the first number by number. While the time zones are still human creations (those lines don't exist to the stars), this would probably be fairly accurate.
So, if the time zone is 600 miles wide... 60 (minutes) divided by 600 equals 1/10th of a minute per mile (or 6 seconds). If you're 300 miles into the time zone, 6 x 300 = 1800 seconds = 30 minutes. -
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Re: Calculating exact birth time
Sat, October 10, 2009 - 2:32 PMBut software may already take this into consideration, as it takes the latitude and longitude of where you were born. I'm not sure on that one. -
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Re: Calculating exact birth time
Sat, October 10, 2009 - 2:34 PMI'd assume that it does.
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Re: Calculating exact birth time
Sat, October 10, 2009 - 2:43 PMI heard a loooooooooong time ago something about how using Greenwich mean time is the way to bypass the human conventions of time zones to get the real-deal accurate juice, but me no savvy. -
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Re: Calculating exact birth time
Sat, October 10, 2009 - 2:49 PMAfter thinking about it... yes, this is considered into your chart by the software. If you do your chart from a different city, say 200 miles east or west from you but still in the same time zone, your ascendant will move.
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Re: Calculating exact birth time
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 8:13 AMI can relate very much with you. I was adopted, and i do not know my birth mother. Everyone says i was born at "8:30" which i know i was not since i don't resemble a Capricorn rising, never have. (In fact, i don't get along with Capricorns, they drive me crazy.) So the time difference between 8:30 and 8:46 is Capricorn rising and Aquarius rising. Some lawyer says 8:30, personally, i know hes full of crap, since my birth certificate doesn't even say what time i was born. Anyways, go with what you feel, and ask someone who knows you very well, and who is very honest and blunt. I asked my boyfriend, we have been together 7 years. He said i was more of one than the other. But he also thought i was a teeny bit of the other. I have determined for myself that i am an Aquarius Rising, i even have circulation problems. I don't have knee problems as a Cap Rising would. Also appearance wise, none of the Cap Rising describe my appearance whatsoever, but Aqa Rising certainly does. So go by that, and how you feel, and what others say. It was my only choice, since i do not wish to find my god forsaken birth mother.
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Re: Calculating exact birth time
Sat, December 5, 2009 - 10:57 AMit kinda depends on the records doesn't it? like i'm i nthe process (got my foot in the dorobut totally procrasinatin) of establishin my birth time.. pity the hospita i was bornin has been consldated into another.. anyway wahatever hopefully the records were maintained :D not that i give damn but it's fun nonetheless right