http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f?format=rss Tribe.net. Local Connections http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#62e03eb9-8ba7-4b1b-a9ec-f0e1f63ac40a my aunt and uncle just divorced and shes a scorp suna nd hes a pisces sun....he has a big drug problem and they have 5 beautiul daughters... Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:32:28 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#62e03eb9-8ba7-4b1b-a9ec-f0e1f63ac40a melissa 2007-04-04T13:32:28Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#930bc41a-dccb-4bbc-a719-b31018493742 Brooke! Excellent idea!! I dated one guy that was Scorp Sun and Rising... got that man into therapy! He had major anger issues... lol. (Kind of sad when dating someone sends them to a therapist!) The man I'm kind of considering letting into my circle is an Aries, but I have a sneaking suspicion that he has a Scorpio Rising or Moon. A water sign for sure. Haven't gotten the birth data out of him at this point. Don't want to scare him yet! Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:52:07 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#930bc41a-dccb-4bbc-a719-b31018493742 Kim 2006-01-31T12:52:07Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#2d6828d8-204a-41e2-97ef-b965a68c2bf0 Kim well then just go with the scorpio moon or scorp moon and rising sign. Throw in a mutual reception of your mars and venus placements with your targeted beloved and bingo...you got something going .. you'll forget all about lent ;) Tue, 31 Jan 2006 07:44:37 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#2d6828d8-204a-41e2-97ef-b965a68c2bf0 brooke 2006-01-31T07:44:37Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#4352d55f-5308-4fe0-a750-b570f69a3ef0 Hmmm.... this is an interesting thread. Considering I just gave Scorpio men up for Lent (is it Lent yet??), I suppose I will throw my 2 cents in here. I will say that this is only how I view my world and how I have seen the Scorpios in my life. I am a Pisces Sun in the 8th House of Scorpio. My retrograde Neptune decided that wasn't enough Scorpio flavor so it ventured into the unknown and resides in Scorpio in the 4th. If that wasn't betrayal enough...lol.. my beloved Jupiter opposes my Neptune 0 degrees. Oh, and where is Pluto, ruler of the underworld, friend of Scorpio? Retrograde and Opposing my shimmering Sun, of course! Retrogrades of Mars and Uranus right beside it. My Cappy Moon just sits back and shakes her head at all the passion and nebulous emotion that ping pongs around my chart from time to time. Thank God for my Leo rising (giving my Sun the rulership of my chart) who doesn't really bother with whatever others are doing because she likes herself as she is...... My point? Yes, I'll get to that.... Although I may be a Pisces, I have decidedly varied flavors in my chart. No wonder I confuse even myself. I will admit that the one thing that attracts me to the Scorpios I have dated is their raw passion and fire.. the sex, people, the sex... but, not only do I get great sex, but fabulously deep and philosophical conversations as well. Sigh... if only the ones I seem to have attracted into my life could have a little softer side that would appease my Venus in my 7th and sometimes overly emotional Pisces Sun (gasp, yes, I said that I can be overly emotional at times). As for escaping.. heck yeah I escape. I escape into a world outside of myself, where I have been told that Scorpios tend to escape into themselves and into the darkness of the world, not sure if this is true or not. My fish decides to swim off to calmer, prettier waters to dream and recapture the more magical times. My mental vaction to the Bahamas if you will. Escaping like this is a tool that I use to keep my sanity. The only problem is that sometimes the harshness of reality tends to cause this girl to want to retreat too often. So, in the end, I am still attracted to the fire of the Scorpio man (yes, I know they are a water sign, but I think there was a mix up some where).... but I'm not so sure I can stand the heat with out getting a bit burned. Is Lent over yet??? Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:48:38 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#4352d55f-5308-4fe0-a750-b570f69a3ef0 Kim 2006-01-30T22:48:38Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#8cbd0e06-e6c6-432d-9924-fc4a01481501 <<< - The Sign the Scorpions seem the most tweaked by is Gemini (8th from it) -- Why? because Gemini as a mutable Air sign simply refuses to be confined or defined by the Scorpio control/drama machine, no matter how hard a Scorpio will try to control a Gemini they cannot and it drives them nuts. PLus the gemini might kick their ass in an argument because the gemini will not lose control of their emotions so easily. ,, How can they possile not get involved in MY drama!! HOw can they possible keep their intellect flexible and pliable while I am seeting!?! Not only that, a Gemini may very well laugh at the whole thing.. probably the worst thing you can do the feelings of a Scorpio. if you want to really piss one off, just laugh at their big "serious emotional intensity" -- >>> Joining this discussion late but have to add that this is exactly the dynamic I've have found in my relationships with Scorpions, male scopions especially. and also the reason it usually works, as long as you're involved with people who will take responsibility for themselves in relationships. and that is the crux of it all, isnt it? Taking responsibility of your own growth. <<<as projected illusions go, what makes it any worse to be attached to emotions than, say, intelligence? should the gemini's thoughts or the saggitarian's wisdom be any less suspect than the scorpio's purpose or the piscean's intuition? >>> I recall that Sherpa started a thread on something like this, how differing signs try to avoid intimacy, which is one the things going on with Scorpios little drama. I think of it sometimes as the Scorpion's distaste for the light upon them, and that is something gemini and it's inquisative nature will tend to do. The gem will try to see through the fog and the scorpion hates that ( actually uses a fog machine to make such fog as part of it's style.) The gemini needs to laugh it off (thank goodness for both parties that she dosent take it personally) and also needs to give the scorpion space to have their bit of mystery even if it's only mysterious to the scorpion. Plus, the gem has to not be afraid of the vindictiveness that can show up in the scorpion (when it's not getting the expected) and not see it as personal or threatening (no easy task when sometimes it can get dangerous) and lastly the scorpion has to see this refusal of gemini to be pulled in as the great gift that it is. I think, Sherpa, that it sounds like you and your partner have worked through this very thing. and when that happens the scorpion can feel very safe indeed, because here is one person that isnt afraid of their very powerful emotions. The same powerful emotions that scare the beejesus out of themselves. How safe that feels. and for the gemini, there is a great rich influence and teaching about how to take themselves more seriously which is an important lesson for the flighty gemini who suffers with their own self image at times. I think that the partnership of these two signs can be very powerful. and successful, and a lot of it depends on the strength and endurance of the individual gemini, a sign, I may add, that is not known for it's strength. So, it will have to have other supportive aspects in the chart. love to all B Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:09:11 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#8cbd0e06-e6c6-432d-9924-fc4a01481501 brooke 2006-01-30T18:09:11Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#180a0429-b45a-4ca3-9dde-d944eadb5888 Excellent debate. I arrived here surfing the net and found interesting all including the issue about 'escapism' term which also intrigued me after reading it in so many sites. starfish you asked if we were 'just'. Well, if for 'just' you understand what comes out of judgements then there goes my two cents and I seize the opportunity to explain my views about the true nature of Scorpio. Damn, I'm all the day seeing things from the above side and below side in order to make correct judgments in every situation I face. Playing the devil's lawyer in all that appears bad - in a person traits too - at first glance and searching for hidden faults in each situation or person that is admired and loved by the general public (some kind of ying yang). This involves keeping track of the positive behaviors of an individual and all the faults he's commiting compulsively no matter how insignificant they may seem. This record can extend to months or even years! and in my case has forced me to deny giving someone a hand, even my closest ones (however, in a dramatic situation they have my unconditional support) I suppose people from every sign does this sometimes a day, but not so many times and so recurrent as scorps. Be sure that if a scorp makes a compliment to you it won't be the compassion or charity of other signs. It will be because he has made a scrupulous judgement and you deserve it. Why? Because I would claim we are the most doubtful sign. We need to make the good step but don't know how because of a great lack of self-confidence. The Fishes may be oversensitive and insecure but in that field are a lot more self-confident, I would dare to say. We can't discern which of our emotions is right and wrong. And as these are shaking us between the extremes this gets us extra worried for making the right choice. Through plain and detached reasoning Scorpio is able to overcome this difficulty and dissipate all his doubts. It's a liberation and puts his soul at rest. Then our confidence grows a lot and we give that unruffled facade and that arrogant 'throw me what you've got cause there is no fear. Plus, if I don't like it, I'll kick it back to you' mood I'm not saying that compassion and charity are better or worse. They are unselfish and this is good on one side, but on the other it can lead us to help the wrong people. People that won't make a good use of it and can do harm, too. That is what I extract from myself and my exchange of impressions with many others scorpio that I know. But I'm willing to see if you agree. Best regards : ) Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:00:40 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#180a0429-b45a-4ca3-9dde-d944eadb5888 Scorpio 2006-01-30T16:00:40Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#732cbe61-017d-474b-9061-1e399d2e2b7e Excellent debate. I arrived here surfing the net and found interesting all including the issue about 'escapism' term which also intrigued me after reading it in so many sites. starfish you asked if we were 'just'. Well, if for 'just' you understand what comes out of judgements then there goes my two cents and I seize the opportunity to explain my views about the true nature of Scorpio. Damn, I'm all the day seeing things from the above side and below side in order to make correct judgments in every situation I face. Playing the devil's lawyer in all that appears bad - in a person traits too - at first glance and searching for hidden faults in each situation or person that is admired and loved by the general public (some kind of ying yang). This involves keeping track of the positive behaviors of an individual and all the faults he's commiting compulsively no matter how insignificant they may seem. This record can extend to months or even years! and in my case has forced me to deny giving someone a hand, even my closest ones (however, in a dramatic situation they have my unconditional support) I suppose people from every sign does this sometimes a day, but not so many times and so recurrent as scorps. Be sure that if a scorp makes a compliment to you it won't be the compassion or charity of other signs. It will be because he has made a scrupulous judgement and you deserve it. Why? Because I would claim we are the most doubtful sign. We need to make the good step but don't know how because of a great lack of self-confidence. The Fishes may be oversensitive and insecure but in that field are a lot more self-confident, I would dare to say. We can't discern which of our emotions is right and wrong. And as these are shaking us between the extremes this gets us extra worried for making the right choice. Through plain and detached reasoning Scorpio is able to overcome this difficulty and dissipate all his doubts. It's a liberation and puts his soul at rest. Then our confidence grows a lot and we give that unruffled facade and that arrogant 'throw me what you've got cause there is no fear. Plus, if I don't like it, I'll kick it back to you' mood I'm not saying that compassion and charity are better or worse. They are unselfish and this is good on one side, but on the other it can lead us to help the wrong people. People that won't make a good use of it and can do harm, too. That is what I extract from myself and my exchange of impressions with many others scorpio that I know. But I'm willing to see if you agree. Best regards : ) Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:44:34 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#732cbe61-017d-474b-9061-1e399d2e2b7e Scorpio 2006-01-30T15:44:34Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#ca5892a1-19d5-4023-923a-893504cea617 if a pisces needs to be more focused, perhaps he s/he should become a scorpio. if a scorpio needs to be be less obsessed, perhaps s/he should become a pisces. (being both, it's a moot point, personally) My point is that I'm not sure that "evolving" and "growing" are that much more preferable to being. I'm merely suggesting that maybe we were born into our charts to live them out, and not to escape them until we've completely experienced each lifetime to its fullest conclusion. Fri, 13 Jan 2006 04:48:31 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#ca5892a1-19d5-4023-923a-893504cea617 stevo diVino 2006-01-13T04:48:31Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#58d592f4-817a-404b-86fb-4703c5ff3681 Maryellen that was really cool, I liked it a lot especially with my pisces moon coming into play. Thank you for sharing! Fri, 13 Jan 2006 03:57:30 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#58d592f4-817a-404b-86fb-4703c5ff3681 kat 2006-01-13T03:57:30Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#36c62e58-f8f0-4fda-a43a-33263f4ccd95 My apology for duplicate posting. When i clicked "post" first time my text just disappeared and didnt show as posted so reposted. Wish there was some way we could delete our postings.? Hmmnn. Fri, 13 Jan 2006 03:10:27 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#36c62e58-f8f0-4fda-a43a-33263f4ccd95 Aaron 2006-01-13T03:10:27Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#a034157b-1650-4270-af1a-3832318723d2 "You do need to look at both charts however here goes: Scorpio male and pisces female is better combo than the reverse. Being a scorpio female i have found that although i love and adore pisces men they are less likely to be loyal. They want to love everyone and scorpios (the evolved ones) tend to want 1 soulmate. They are both very sensitive and deep which creates a special bond that I haven't found with any other match. I do recommend this match for friendship, it's beautiful." Regarding what Caroline said - yes id have to agree about the potential for such beautiful, fluid & loving chemistry between well matched scorpio & pisces. One of my closest friends is a pisces woman. i really love her. Very natural comfortability, feeling of mutual respect & appreciation for each other. She is married to another scorpio man. Its interesting that my love for her surpasses the personal attraction, desire or more selfish love for her which could otherwise potentially interfere with or lessen respect for her committment to her full life, growth & love with her present life companion / husband. There is such a spiritual love that what is more important is supporting a full honoring & respect of the love, respect, depth & health available in the person she is already partnered / married to. Not that it would be "wrong" if everyone was open to being involved more intimately with each other, but there is some subtle, deeper feeling of respect & clear love in honoring the "enoughness" of one eternal soul lover, as well as preventing the potential for complications, relationship distraction or subtle devaluing or unknown sharing of disease by loving enough to support the fullness of what is already there. Though im not concerned with being in some monogamous relationship right now with one soulmate as i prefer the freedom of more independence at the moment (and having a string of relationships with women who were chronically less than honest in the past has jaded me too. Plus not being involved with someone i guess id feel compatible enough for natural monogamony) i can feel how there can be a beautiful unification and harmony of universal loving with the simultaneous individuation we souls are doing here by unifying, living & harmonizing our universal loving feelings & desires with the eternal depth available in each of us as individuated beings by having many loving friendships while loyal / monogamous with one well harmonized, compatible spiritual companion. Friendship or more, personally well harmonized & compatible pisces & scorpios can indeed be an exquisite combination. Fri, 13 Jan 2006 03:08:33 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#a034157b-1650-4270-af1a-3832318723d2 Aaron 2006-01-13T03:08:33Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#66ad033f-2eeb-4ecb-8cce-6afc883596b4 "You do need to look at both charts however here goes: Scorpio male and pisces female is better combo than the reverse. Being a scorpio female i have found that although i love and adore pisces men they are less likely to be loyal. They want to love everyone and scorpios (the evolved ones) tend to want 1 soulmate. They are both very sensitive and deep which creates a special bond that I haven't found with any other match. I do recommend this match for friendship, it's beautiful." Regarding what Caroline said - yes id have to agree about the potential for such beautiful, fluid & loving chemistry between well matched scorpio & pisces. One of my closest friends is a pisces woman. i really love her. Very natural comfortability, feeling of mutual respect & appreciation for each other. She is married to another scorpio man. Its interesting that my love for her surpasses the personal attraction, desire or more selfish love for her which could otherwise potentially interfere with or lessen respect for her committment to her full life, growth & love with her present life companion / husband. There is such a spiritual love that what is more important is supporting a full honoring & respect of the love, respect, depth & health available in the person she is already partnered / married to. Not that it would be "wrong" if everyone was open to being involved more intimately with each other, but there is some subtle, deeper feeling of respect & clear love in honoring the "enoughness" of one eternal soul lover, as well as preventing the potential for complications, relationship distraction or subtle devaluing or unknown sharing of disease by loving enough to support the fullness of what is already there. Though im not concerned with being in some monogamous relationship right now with one soulmate as i prefer the freedom of more independence at the moment (and having a string of relationships with women who were chronically less than honest in the past has jaded me too. Plus not being involved with someone i guess id feel compatible enough for natural monogamony) i can feel how there can be a beautiful unification and harmony of universal loving with the simultaneous individuation we souls are doing here by unifying, living & harmonizing our universal loving feelings & desires with the eternal depth available in each of us as individuated beings by having many loving friendships while loyal / monogamous with one well harmonized, compatible spiritual companion. Friendship or more, personally well harmonized & compatible pisces & scorpios can indeed be an exquisite combination. Fri, 13 Jan 2006 03:08:24 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#66ad033f-2eeb-4ecb-8cce-6afc883596b4 Aaron 2006-01-13T03:08:24Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#e72926ef-eea5-4062-ab7a-b633213b21af What a georgous poem MaryEllen. Thank you. I feel this way alot myself - Pisces ascendent, Neptune in 8th house near my scorp sun? Though i wonder sometimes if this awareness of all possibilities and potential for floating among them all indecisively is really just a shared human experience? Fri, 13 Jan 2006 02:35:26 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#e72926ef-eea5-4062-ab7a-b633213b21af Aaron 2006-01-13T02:35:26Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#956b842f-99c0-414c-b2b1-594372428f85 "Yet expecting the Scorpion to just ask a lot of questions is like asking the Pisces to just stay focused and determined about one thing at the exclusion of all others. Actually it is exactly what the Scorpio needs in order to evolve beyond being stuck in their emotions. AND it is exactly the same as realizing the Piscean needs to be more focused and steady and integrate and face what comes their way, (like Scorpio naturally does) not just continually look for another way to look at things or spin them. These signs actually can help each other enormously if they can find the shared compassion in their hearts, beyond the "should and "shouldn'ts" of life. " Sam - Yes. Finally a balanced, clear assessment of the equality and mutual balancing available in the relationship between these two signs & people influenced strongly by them. Thank you. Fri, 13 Jan 2006 02:19:26 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#956b842f-99c0-414c-b2b1-594372428f85 Aaron 2006-01-13T02:19:26Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#84ce9b4b-b0fa-40ae-983b-bdc278b40234 "One of my closet friends is a pisces woman who is married to a pisces man." Ooops. I meant ... Pisces woman married to a Scorpio man. Fri, 13 Jan 2006 01:53:55 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#84ce9b4b-b0fa-40ae-983b-bdc278b40234 Aaron 2006-01-13T01:53:55Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#bddf38f0-55b9-44b6-9ccd-22da35925e8e "Interesting opinions & interpretations. Though one thing is apparent in them, a high degree of arrogance & vast generalizing assumptiveness" - by "them" i am referring to the comments posted & expressed yet again by starfish. She has posted numerous, similiarly negative interpretations of scorpio & scorpios in the pisces tribe. Fri, 13 Jan 2006 01:44:52 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#bddf38f0-55b9-44b6-9ccd-22da35925e8e Aaron 2006-01-13T01:44:52Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#bb47212c-e014-400a-93bb-9b3a601cae6f Interesting opinions & interpretations. Though one thing is apparent in them, a high degree of arrogance & vast generalizing assumptiveness. Which in itself runs contrary to the great wisdom & spiritual superiority which as youve made clear in this and other posts of yours you seem to feel you possess especially when compared to people with scorpio influence. "scorpio needs to feel in control and take control " - Sure the desire to control ones life is likely present in many scorpios, (and people born during other signs) and to excercise control & discernment in choosing the type of people to relate with in various ways. Its also obvious that you "need to feel in control" of relationships and yourself by refusing any perceptions or perspective on who you are (though you are apparently unable or unwilling to give the same freedom of choice and from judgement, perception & labeling to others such as Scorpios as so apparent from the abundance of such expectations, preconceived notions & assumptions of who they are you voice with such conviction. "pisces likes change and does a lot of it - pisces also sees two sides of things, her vision is not limited" - So do many scorpios. Constantly. Some pisces & some scorpios remain unable to balance the need for change with a healthy groundedness & focus. If your vision was truly unlimited (as the pisces you are) then you would easily recognize & respect that your limited interpretation & resulting experience of scorpio is not absolute or even balanced in itself. And would recognize the blatant hypocrasies in your own stated views & arrogant attitudes toward something you choose to see yourself as different from, accurate or not. We all have these capacities for compassion, love, freedom, sensitivity, empathy, etc. Unfortunately some people use astrology and labels like Im such a spiritual, free formless pisces (while hypocritically saying how free they are and wish to be of labels, expectations, forms, etc) to try to boost their own fragile egos, feel superior to others or look down on others (whether they be pisces, scorpio...), missing the validity, gems & equality of others in the process. "pisces do not need to portray themselves as mysterious, or keep that little bit of mysteriousness, because they see through it..." Yet in so many of your posts you repeatedly point out how "deep", "vast", "mysterious", "spiritual",etc you & pisces people are. "(because we really are compassionate souls and hate being misunderstood)" - If thats so, you might find more compassion & understanding by letting go of your ongoing labeling, misunderstandings of & superior attitude toward others, including Scorpios, yourself. thats not the same as taking an attitude of well okay, im so great & spiritual that ill give scorpios the gift of my vast superior spiritual maturity by viewing them as equals or with compassion. Its as much for you as anyone else, for clarity not charity. Which helps create true greater harmony universally as well as personally. All these traits youve written glowingy about pisces can and do also apply to many scorpios, as well as all those not so glowing traits you express as being scorpionic can and do apply to many pisces, including some ive met myself. So it might be worth looking deeper in yourself rather then repeatedly claiming how deep & vast & free you are. Especially when you still are bound by such arrogant judgement, denial, avoidance of responsability for where some of the ways you may choose to use the freedom you & we all have may also be a detriment in other areas of growth & experience, potentially damaging or a pattern of avoiding a deeper or more quality, respectful connection to another(s) obscured by denial whitewashed with a holier than thou misguided spiritual attitude / perspective. One of my closet friends is a pisces woman who is married to a pisces man. Theyve been together @ 7 years, and the pisces is mature enough to recognize that while in some ways different, her scorpio companion actually has equally wonderful and enlightened spiritual qualities which perhaps as a pisces are not as quickly lived and vice versa. Since she is not so wrapped up in her own visions of superiority & ideas & use of freedom in ways that disregard the health, eternal depth & worth of her companion, relationship and self she is perceptive & open enough to sense, acknowledge & continue growing rather than assuming she has acheived a state where ongoing growth & inner discovery is something left for those beneath her. And likewise her partner has grown and benefited spiritually and matured through the relationship & independently as well. We all ARE free and spiritually sensitive souls. Freedom is too often used glibly or superficially to whitewash what is really a tendency for avoidance of uncovering deeper distortions, pain & lessened regard of others in ourselves and inner walls we have to really connecting & respecting another equally, eternally vast soul which is able to be revealed through ongoing, honest & clear relating with a specific other through time, and avoided through illusionary attitudes of superiority & addiction to running from focused attention & respect lived by choices & actions we make with our freedom in certian situations. Some of the highest quality artistry, musicianship, architecture, spirtual growth, refined & balanced awareness & richest experience has come specifically from using freedom wisely by focusing choices & actions & making "committments' to a particular specific thing/person/endeavor. Rather then letting ones fragmented and underinvestigated & unintegrated facets rule our lives randomly which can at an extreme lead to scatteredness, shallowness, addictions, hypocrisy or an ununified / unintegrated energy current within us masquerading under a guise of "freedom" or spirituality or other labels. For some people such a unification of focus or "committments" to an endeavor, partnership, etc may appear or feel to be forced or unfree, when in truth such focus can be far a far freer & estatic way of being. Freedom through unification & transmutation of various seemingly divergent desires, impulses & interests into their higher qualities & a naturally unified focus for our life which leads to a dropping away or transmuting of underinvestigated or divergent desires & actions for a richer, more lovingly clear & lovingly powerful life experience. Even naturally talented artists & others who bring an engagement, art, activity to a newly refined, high quality realm have & do discover & create greater richness, quality & enlightenment through practice, practice, practice - using their freedom to focus on eternal refinement, depth & experience rather then skipping from one thing to another and another... Not that theres anything wrong with tasting many different endeavors, choices, people, etc. Just that there is at least as much benefit, refinement, growth, enlightenment through using our freedom wisely by making a choice out of love. Thats the difference, for those who view making a choice as a prison or a hinderence to their freedom they miss the truth & deeper reality. That when one makes such a specific choice, committment, etc out of love, inspiration & respect for the opportunities & realms unveiled by such focused choice, and when one has the depth, self-honest clarity, inner peace & natural intuition to continually reinvigorate such love & inspiration over time such a choice is in truth freeing, graceful & can be felt not as a lack of freedom or a barrier or hinderance but a wise, loving & clear use of ones freedom. I happen to enjoy the company of many pisces myself, as well as cancers & scorpios alike. ITs only when a generalized arrogance, assumptiveness & spiritual snobbery or superiority complex poisons the relationship whether its from a pisces, scorpio or cancer that it can become unharmonious at least in my experience. So if you are a pisces or scorpio and interested in someone of the other sign, look within yourself for your own feelings, shortcomings, barriers to truer intimacy & love which may hide behind arrogance or avoidance addictions and if you both feel a genuine love & mutual respect, its worth exploring. And remembering that no one person or even group of people represent all people or groups of people. Aaron Fri, 13 Jan 2006 01:39:52 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#bb47212c-e014-400a-93bb-9b3a601cae6f Aaron 2006-01-13T01:39:52Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#7666e31b-1f18-4799-be82-c7797fb2fc2e My Pisces poem ~ enjoy!! I will never forget That crazy year that I met The mystical blue-green fishes. Swimming in circles, Over & under - up & down, One doesn't know what The other one wishes. I went up with them, Up past the shadows, And down to a widsom so deep. Travelling through so many worlds, Into so many places, Never knowing if I was Awake or asleep. One offered help - the other needed a helping hand. One was a little boy - the other a wizend old man. One took in everything - the other refused to see. One desired lovers - the other celebacy. Swimming in different directions, But by a golden cord bound. Lying at the heart of this paradox Is the simple Truth to be found. love all-ways, mem ~ Scorpio Thu, 12 Jan 2006 23:27:20 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#7666e31b-1f18-4799-be82-c7797fb2fc2e MaryEllen 2006-01-12T23:27:20Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#cb76efe6-1654-421c-aa23-dce5ac1faa50 <They want to love everyone and scorpios (the evolved ones) tend to want 1 soulmate. > Yes, that's been my experience too. I have a beautiful friendship with a Pisces guy and adore my ex who has a Pisces moon, but ultimately I had a hard time with his diluted attention. Kali Thu, 12 Jan 2006 22:12:38 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#cb76efe6-1654-421c-aa23-dce5ac1faa50 Kali 2006-01-12T22:12:38Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#82e592ed-70ec-4dd1-b008-019679353864 i recommend a taurus moon person to anyone who loves affection. they are the warmest and cuddliest of all especially if they also have water prominent in their chart. Thu, 12 Jan 2006 21:30:51 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#82e592ed-70ec-4dd1-b008-019679353864 Carolina 2006-01-12T21:30:51Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#8459ca6e-2026-4a8e-a740-c7b1f0d8ca4b Ah my exhusband had sun in pisces and moon in taurus. its a cuddly combination. anyhow you will always be attracted to scorpios since they have the emotional/spiritual connection with pisces and the stubborn and sexual connection with taurus. taurus and scorpio are oppisites which cause a huge attraction. espeically when the opposites are between person a's sun and person b's moon. Thu, 12 Jan 2006 21:29:05 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#8459ca6e-2026-4a8e-a740-c7b1f0d8ca4b Carolina 2006-01-12T21:29:05Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#e5123584-bc37-4875-a67e-91a2238d9e94 You do need to look at both charts however here goes: Scorpio male and pisces female is better combo than the reverse. Being a scorpio female i have found that although i love and adore pisces men they are less likely to be loyal. They want to love everyone and scorpios (the evolved ones) tend to want 1 soulmate. They are both very sensitive and deep which creates a special bond that I haven't found with any other match. I do recommend this match for friendship, it's beautiful. Thu, 12 Jan 2006 21:24:17 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#e5123584-bc37-4875-a67e-91a2238d9e94 Carolina 2006-01-12T21:24:17Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#e184bfe0-afb9-4510-8f8c-3f4c15b93d2b Apparently, it would seem that I'm the only Scorpio (with a stellium, nonetheless) who has tremendous luck when dealing with the fishies. Perhaps I truly AM a pussy disguised in the garb of a scorpio. Feel my woe. Thu, 12 Jan 2006 07:45:24 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#e184bfe0-afb9-4510-8f8c-3f4c15b93d2b Paul 2006-01-12T07:45:24Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#31a47f7c-0e45-4224-986d-55b19121dbe0 We're mean too, wanna little shot of that? Thu, 12 Jan 2006 07:31:35 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#31a47f7c-0e45-4224-986d-55b19121dbe0 Nahar 2006-01-12T07:31:35Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#6cd82b82-9fb8-4c7b-8358-8ebffe96f4f8 i'm a scorpio and i eat pisces for breakfast on a regular basis. Thu, 12 Jan 2006 00:12:37 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#6cd82b82-9fb8-4c7b-8358-8ebffe96f4f8 caedmonster 2006-01-12T00:12:37Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#8f4097ee-d524-458e-a10d-67a00ecd37ad Yes! Kali Wed, 11 Jan 2006 23:21:09 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#8f4097ee-d524-458e-a10d-67a00ecd37ad Kali 2006-01-11T23:21:09Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#b21d47a8-aebb-4f37-921b-6ce95e016414 *Knowing what we’ve learned from it, how can we ever hold anyone in judgment again?* well put. we all personally have more difficulty reconciling our differences with some signs than others, but we'd better learn to get over it because when all is said and done we ARE all one. Wed, 11 Jan 2006 23:07:56 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#b21d47a8-aebb-4f37-921b-6ce95e016414 stevo diVino 2006-01-11T23:07:56Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#d0cdf1dd-297b-4537-b107-82db1ebc1506 Mercury conjunct Saturn in Sagittarius in the 8th. Right now Pluto’s transiting them. I’m getting Plutonian messages to communicate differently. Ouch and noted. Not for you, but for for my evolution. AND, really WTF? What gives you the right to bash? The distance between your screen and mine? Astrology gives us a common language to communicate compassionately. Knowing what we’ve learned from it, how can we ever hold anyone in judgment again? The best a person can do is to work with their energy and transits with a desire for consciousness. Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:36:43 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#d0cdf1dd-297b-4537-b107-82db1ebc1506 Kali 2006-01-11T22:36:43Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#9b5c1138-a651-4f1a-a5fd-7594da49b3b2 Whatever floats your boat. Kali Wed, 11 Jan 2006 04:05:36 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#9b5c1138-a651-4f1a-a5fd-7594da49b3b2 Kali 2006-01-11T04:05:36Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#0544b94c-ef05-4841-8897-4ab2bea0b014 i never knew scorpios could be so tedious. Wed, 11 Jan 2006 03:54:18 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#0544b94c-ef05-4841-8897-4ab2bea0b014 stevo diVino 2006-01-11T03:54:18Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#ebd1ec73-533c-4d9b-a543-67cd2ff0e0cb Personally I love Pisces, they go well with so many things like lemon pepper, tartar sauce, chips, and a little butter. mmm mmmm :) Wed, 11 Jan 2006 03:35:59 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#ebd1ec73-533c-4d9b-a543-67cd2ff0e0cb Nahar 2006-01-11T03:35:59Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#a1df718c-eee6-43cc-af35-590f9b0258b8 With 4 planets in the 8th house, moon in Scorpio conjunct Neptune and Jupiter in Scorpio, how can I resist this discussion! So here’s my take on Scorpio and Pisces and water signs in general. I feel (and what else WOULD I do, hah!) that emotion is seriously undervalued in our culture, although I do experience that changing. When I think of Cancer, eg, I think of pink in a red culture. A little Scorpio moon victimization here, but it’s generally more socially acceptable to bring a brilliant Gemini wit to a cocktail party than freely flowing emotions, and of course, that depends on the party. I can understand the need to pinch, sting and swim away in some circumstances. I myself like to go to parties where emotional depth and provocative and revealing repartee are welcome, like shadow dancing, contact dance or ritual, and avoid light cocktail parties like the plague. As I get older I find myself very attracted to Gemini’s and the Gemini archetype in general, maybe for the reasons Sherpa pointed out about the Asc./8th relationship and the Asc/6th relationship. All signs have shadow and light elements, which I experience as adaptive to collective acceptance of the attributes of the sign. Even if I agree with some of the negative stereotypes of Scorpio that have been presented here, I want to mention some Scorpio attributes that haven’t been mentioned. My experience is that Scorpio wants emotional intimacy, but has been burned. The 8th house after all is the house of emotional intimacy (from my point of view). So, there’s definitely fear there AND a desire to look deeply at the other and try to pin them down and get them to go deeper-together! If a Scorpio hasn’t done some homework and fessing up about their fear and vulnerability, at least to themselves, then there will be a tendency to victimization and projection, but as they do their work it’s possible to experience themselves and others in a deeply intimate way. Scorpio likes emotional charge and since healthy emotional intimacy has been denied in some way, they often settle for confrontation and divisiveness until they know better and get to the yummy, ecstatic experience of positive emotional charge in healthy relationship. My relationship to Pisces is experienced through the Neptune conjunct my moon. I think it’s a very interesting situation in that the Scorpio moon which is driven by fear of being stung is at the same time driven to merge into the oceanic oneness, so in a very personal way I have experienced the Scorpio drive to pin down the flow and to define the Self. There is an evolution of emotion from Cancer to Scorpio to Pisces that has an analogy in Jungian psychology to the evolution in development from egocentric-learning about the self through family, to ethnocentric-learning about the self through relationship to the other and worldcentric-learning about the self in relationship to the world and cosmos. I find it helpful to think about it that way. If a person has a lot of water, as I do, I think emotion is the receiver for information, just as I think that someone with a lot of air will receive and process incoming information through the intellect. It’s all good, just the way you look at it. :-) Kali Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:11:21 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#a1df718c-eee6-43cc-af35-590f9b0258b8 Kali 2006-01-10T21:11:21Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#9e1b5a2f-dc57-4e17-8294-d1ed64f9f1f6 Yes, Siberian ~ I fully agree! The connection is definately there :) love all-ways, mem Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:59:48 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#9e1b5a2f-dc57-4e17-8294-d1ed64f9f1f6 MaryEllen 2006-01-10T18:59:48Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#4c473df1-ff46-4fec-91b9-a201324d6e9a No sir.. Sun in Pisces and moon in Taurus. I do have Saturn and Pluto in Scorpio. Quite frankly I do not know if those two planets had anything to do with such sudden relation. But I feel like I understand and relate to scorpio's sensitivities. Probably not nearly as much as someone with a moon in Scorpio, but the connection is definitely there. Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:57:51 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#4c473df1-ff46-4fec-91b9-a201324d6e9a Siberian 2006-01-10T18:57:51Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#0c3dc23d-edd4-4ee6-b069-c12eede564bf Siberia, Do you have a Scorpio Sun? How has that defined your call to action and illuminated your mind? What about your Moon sign? how has that nourished you and brought connection? I'm going to start a thread on this. Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:47:48 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#0c3dc23d-edd4-4ee6-b069-c12eede564bf Sadasiva 2006-01-10T18:47:48Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#b846872c-4d93-425d-a6ba-44c6a28362f5 Oh, I absolutely adored the way you presented scorpios, stripping away the romanticistic, askewed qualities that are much too commonly prescribed to them. Yet you did it respectfully, even when pointing out the exact issues they seem to have a problem with. Such as being all too serious about their intensity. I had never thought about it myself, but once I've read your posts, I couldn't help but exclaim "how precisely right!" Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:37:44 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#b846872c-4d93-425d-a6ba-44c6a28362f5 Siberian 2006-01-10T18:37:44Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#10889545-fe8f-413e-a50d-523c9584c61c HI Siberian, glad you enjoyed reading it! -- Ths was a great discussion. what did you find that spoke to you? Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:12:43 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#10889545-fe8f-413e-a50d-523c9584c61c Sadasiva 2006-01-10T08:12:43Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#a87bfdda-0370-4abb-806c-b80d2bf1c02f Man, I dont know how I missed this thread. Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:13:40 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#a87bfdda-0370-4abb-806c-b80d2bf1c02f Paul 2006-01-10T07:13:40Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#18db10ea-a7ac-40f0-8a2b-190488dcc358 Sorry for butting in, but wow... Sam's posts are the most beautiful and serene descriptions of scorpios I have ever read. This whole thread is extremely informative, and I enjoyed reading it thoroughly. Thank you. Tue, 10 Jan 2006 06:29:03 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#18db10ea-a7ac-40f0-8a2b-190488dcc358 Siberian 2006-01-10T06:29:03Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#b96721b4-fbf7-4257-9b88-a38019924555 prepping for the shattering of the universe as I type...at least, my universe anyway :) My scorps been away for far tooooo long playing over in that mean old sandbox where the 'bad guys' are. He's only home for a week but lets just say I plan on giving him a home warming he wont easily forget. muahahah >:) This clinging crab is going to be beside herself when she has to say goodbye to her two favorite scorps in one week (my best friend, a female scorp, is leaving for Germany as my male scorp heads back to the sandbox). Booooo :( Wed, 04 Jan 2006 18:24:55 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#b96721b4-fbf7-4257-9b88-a38019924555 Copper 2006-01-04T18:24:55Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#a7efe99f-9d11-4efe-96c6-85cc7ad8ac3a I like those. Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:57:45 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#a7efe99f-9d11-4efe-96c6-85cc7ad8ac3a firemermaid 2005-12-30T08:57:45Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#e744bba8-b55f-433e-bce0-17b8f98d0e57 thank you for this post. Fri, 30 Dec 2005 03:02:31 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#e744bba8-b55f-433e-bce0-17b8f98d0e57 victoria 2005-12-30T03:02:31Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#1a7044e0-819a-4593-a0ea-31642a243f2d And BTW Mary Ellen, don't worry about losing much in the translation from Western to Vedic - by the time i got through explaining your chart, you would be every bit the "Lily Munster" you now envision, perhaps with a little morticia Adams even thrown in for good measure. Fri, 30 Dec 2005 03:02:18 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#1a7044e0-819a-4593-a0ea-31642a243f2d Sadasiva 2005-12-30T03:02:18Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#2cac588e-0a58-4d15-b3cd-6fc951a92f71 Copper, great point.. obviously i have embarrassed myself - i defer to the Brilliance of Sherpa now for all such analogies - sherpa said: scorpio = swamp pisces = rain cancer = a well So to rephrase for you "this well (cancer) has an incredible fondness for swamps (Scorps) - now that makes a lot more sense,.. whew! has the universe shattered lately? Fri, 30 Dec 2005 02:29:47 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#2cac588e-0a58-4d15-b3cd-6fc951a92f71 Sadasiva 2005-12-30T02:29:47Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#0519b736-b54a-4a28-ab72-418f51c506db can I just say that this ocean (Cancer) has an incredible fondness for lakes (Scorps)? Now, how can earth signs be more compatible with the little spider than the fellow pincer pals they have universe shattering sex with? hrmmmm? On a side note, I just married a female Scorp to a male Pisces the other day.... Fri, 30 Dec 2005 02:14:32 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#0519b736-b54a-4a28-ab72-418f51c506db Copper 2005-12-30T02:14:32Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#3bdc34cd-00ff-4331-b2cf-8cddd0c01da1 I agree totally with this. There is nothing inglorious or non romantic / Spiritual about the Scorpion as a powerful insect/arachnid - Insects are clingy and tenactious and adaptable, incredibly strong for their size - prehistoric - real survivors When we bother to dig deeply into (at least Vedic) understanding, the more primitive and seminal a creature, the closer to god it is. Thus the Water sign animals are all very closely connected intuitively to Spirit and devotion because they are more ancient tinmeless creatures, ancient and timeless like God. The animals show this. The concept of involution and its deep primal understanding reveals a complexity and inner wealth that is lost by projecting countless other animals onto the Scorpion because it seems so inglorious by itself. For example Air Signs are all Human, Gemini (a couple) - Libra (a man carrying a scale in a marketplace is the real symbol) - Aquarius ( a man with an empty pot) -- These humans can be the furthest from God naturally because they are intellectual in nature and living to satisfy desires (Air is related to desires and stimulation) and able to satisfy them. So the worldy stimulation and sophistication may take them further from god, even though a human is more evolved than a crab or an insect. Fire signs are instinctive creatures (lion, ram and centaur-horse/person) Again, I am not talking about Sun sign archetypes, planets in these signs are all relevant. Fri, 30 Dec 2005 02:13:19 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#3bdc34cd-00ff-4331-b2cf-8cddd0c01da1 Sadasiva 2005-12-30T02:13:19Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#ebb71f26-5c7d-4a5a-aac9-27f3ff3eaf9a Oh no, I'm not bored with 'high intelligence', I just don't value that as much as 'trickster pixie humor'..... ;) love all-ways, mem Fri, 30 Dec 2005 01:59:40 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#ebb71f26-5c7d-4a5a-aac9-27f3ff3eaf9a MaryEllen 2005-12-30T01:59:40Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#00103feb-2529-42f0-8e3f-9a48c83cbaa0 "thanks to sam's high intelligence and wicked sense of trickster pixie humor, our dialogues have actually fueled my motivation for posting here, far more than any promise of a duel unless of course, we are talking about duels between a couple of old timer red and white clowns flailing about the same seedy circus tent (right, sammi-ji ?). as for astrology symbolizing the forces of nature, well, duh. i just found the associations presented somewhat drab; without imagination. and this reminded me how astrology does not come with a built-in imagination. like batteries, that must be supplied afterwards. " Absolutely Sherpa-ji.. I am glad you are here my brother, and equipped with a good mind and equally good sense of humor. It has made this tribe quite interesting lately. BTW - sorry for my somewhat drab and unimaginative presentation here.. I was actually trying to flirt with the starfish a bit,, thinking with the wrong head (did i just say that?) - leads to some real cornvball analogies -- Apparently this banal presentation is a departure from my otherwise "wicked sense of trickster pixie humor" -- yet i seem to bore Mary ellen with my high inteligence.. well i think mary ellen is still probably sulking in the corner a bit over the irony the she is a Pisces, with a bunch of planets in Libra! -- Seriously,.. i love interacting with you guys - all of you are very insightful and able to handle the occasional controversy with maturity and humor. I think this has been good for us all during this heavy Astro Weather lately. Fri, 30 Dec 2005 01:21:05 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#00103feb-2529-42f0-8e3f-9a48c83cbaa0 Sadasiva 2005-12-30T01:21:05Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#0d26605b-6b34-4f24-8e98-338290a9536d Thanx to you too, Sherpa! :) Yay!! Wicked sense of trickster pixie humor!! (high intelligence, ho hum) Another thing studying astrology has done for me is help exercise/stretch my imagination ~ something that was more than stifled in my younger years ~ I studied classical science, ad nausium ~ even 'sterile technique' ~ boy, did I ever need some style clues! ...& I'm still picking them up..... love all-ways, mem Fri, 30 Dec 2005 00:24:13 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#0d26605b-6b34-4f24-8e98-338290a9536d MaryEllen 2005-12-30T00:24:13Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#7d81a72d-93d7-4447-8f9a-911de87a44b5 thanks to sam's high intelligence and wicked sense of trickster pixie humor, our dialogues have actually fueled my motivation for posting here, far more than any promise of a duel unless of course, we are talking about duels between a couple of old timer red and white clowns flailing about the same seedy circus tent (right, sammi-ji ?). as for astrology symbolizing the forces of nature, well, duh. i just found the associations presented somewhat drab; without imagination. and this reminded me how astrology does not come with a built-in imagination. like batteries, that must be supplied afterwards. i confess that it was unfair of me to not provide alternative examples on that thread and so, with apologies firmly intact here they are now (off the top of me big head!): scorpio = swamp pisces = rain cancer = a well taurus = stone virgo = tree capricorn = mountain gemini = hurricane libra = breeze aquarius = tornado leo = bon fire (or a single candle) sagittarius = lightning aries = forest fire Fri, 30 Dec 2005 00:14:33 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#7d81a72d-93d7-4447-8f9a-911de87a44b5 sherpa 2005-12-30T00:14:33Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#441449e4-8469-441c-b946-7b2c99513dc6 sam, sherpa...seems to me like the two of you are in some duel here, a competition of sorts, i've actually noticed this, if you don't mind me saying, in other posts too. so i'm calling this one. here you both are making metaphors, regarding the scorpion's stages of evolution, and regarding the relationship of the water signs to each other, (by the way, i find most metaphors beautiful and that is not sign specific) and yet you both find each other's metaphors silly... LOL! please tell me you are both not being serious! ;-) Thu, 29 Dec 2005 23:49:48 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#441449e4-8469-441c-b946-7b2c99513dc6 $item.owner.firstName 2005-12-29T23:49:48Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#39cd8d97-e197-4a64-9495-9ebc6bfcfc7d ooo i love bugs too, don't know about romantic but definately amusing and way cool! the only one i have a great dislike of, and makes me scream, is the spider. but they are fascinating...lady bugs and centipedes (sp?) and those huge beetles that come out in may after the rain...the tropical roaches and cicadas i used to bring home dead (found them that way) to show my daughter when she was little..i also love lizards and worms! i know worms arent' bugs, so a bit off topic, totally off topic, but we are getting some for our compost start up, and i'm very excited! :-P Thu, 29 Dec 2005 23:42:33 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#39cd8d97-e197-4a64-9495-9ebc6bfcfc7d $item.owner.firstName 2005-12-29T23:42:33Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#fd7a1adf-572c-475d-a561-1a6e0c47aa52 As a biologist/scientist, I think these correllations work extremely well ~ one of the reasons the language of astrology has helped me in cross-disciplinary ways. ~ BTW, insects are still 'romantic', at least to me ~ I worked as the "bug lady", bringing huge, live insects to classrooms all over the Bay Area..... You can erase/censor the astrology references from the textbooks, but you can't take the astrology out of the true science! love all-ways, mem Thu, 29 Dec 2005 22:18:01 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#fd7a1adf-572c-475d-a561-1a6e0c47aa52 MaryEllen 2005-12-29T22:18:01Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#a981be79-5738-44bb-be20-acb744df4df3 Actually with Scorpio i meant to say, lakes are not just formed by rainfall, they are usually formed by Snow from Mountains and maintained by rainfall.. als served by rivers, yet rivers EMPTY into the ocean. sorry 'bout that. yes Sherpa I'm / we're serious,, Does Astrology that actually relates to the natural world bother you? LOL -- Much like there is wisdom to realizing that a Scorpion is an insect rather than a romanticized, archetpyed reinvented myriad of things, so reconstuted and opined that it runs the risk of being irrelevant? Insects are tough and adaptable, shed their skin, yet are vulnerable, etc. Astrology actually relates to the physical universe as well,, the 4 elements in the Chart, represent 4 qualities of life unfolding, etc. IMO - Astrology also works on that level, not just as a series of reconstituted elements and ephemera and as you practice and allude to often. Thu, 29 Dec 2005 22:01:23 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#a981be79-5738-44bb-be20-acb744df4df3 Sadasiva 2005-12-29T22:01:23Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#06a5b1d5-5db0-44fa-bf43-c50ad7a135ad LOL I must say that these associations between the water signs and certain bodies of water strike me as among the more ridiculous I have read so far. The earth sign metaphors, sillier still... Please tell me you are not serious. Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:51:59 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#06a5b1d5-5db0-44fa-bf43-c50ad7a135ad sherpa 2005-12-29T21:51:59Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#ef525209-0583-4d84-a814-b34b9d37a858 "Cancer is the ocean - cardinal water Scorpio is a lake - fixed water Pisces is a river - flowing water. Pisces water will naturally flow more easily toward the ocean, Cancer - its source. Scorpio is the water mainly formed by Rainfall. It is more self contained - usually better with an Earth Sign to support it - Capricorn (Mountain) Taurus (level ground) or Virgo (bricks and houses)" More 'meaty' information! Yay!! This is wonderful stuff, too! :) <smacking her lips> love all-ways, mem Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:36:21 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#ef525209-0583-4d84-a814-b34b9d37a858 MaryEllen 2005-12-29T21:36:21Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#e480d412-171a-4dad-834e-96f8c7709a33 Yay!! Delicious ironies!! :) love all-ways, mem Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:28:31 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#e480d412-171a-4dad-834e-96f8c7709a33 MaryEllen 2005-12-29T21:28:31Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#0626a909-3250-46ff-bd04-7afb91509d7c Starfish.. see that answer makes the Cancer happy because you said it was beautiful! ~ The Pisces ruled by Jupiter/Neptune is much closer in vibration to the Moon (lord of Cancer) than to Mars/Pluto, the lord of Scorpio - So in order to undertand this Scorpio energy, you need a Cancer with A Scorpio Moon -- I happen to know one ~ hehe Cancer is the ocean - cardinal water Scorpio is a lake - fixed water Pisces is a river - flowing water. Pisces water will naturally flow more easily toward the ocean, Cancer - its source. Scorpio is the water mainly formed by Rainfall. It is more self contained - usually better with an Earth Sign to support it - Capricorn (Mountain) Taurus (level ground) or Virgo (bricks and houses) Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:25:53 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#0626a909-3250-46ff-bd04-7afb91509d7c Sadasiva 2005-12-29T21:25:53Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#97860b33-a3b0-4f10-9d75-a0bb65e1b88a "The Sign the Scorpions seem the most tweaked by is Gemini (8th from it) -- Why? because Gemini as a mutable Air sign simply refuses to be confined or defined by the Scorpio control/drama machine, no matter how hard a Scorpio will try to control a Gemini they cannot and it drives them nuts. PLus the gemini might kick their ass in an argument because the gemini will not lose control of their emotions so easily. I often hear Scorpios speak of Geminis like they are inhuman,, How can they possile not get involved in MY drama!! HOw can they possible keep their intellect flexible and pliable while I am seeting!?! Not only that, a Gemini may very well laugh at the whole thing.. probably the worst thing you can do the feelings of a Scorpio. if you want to really piss one off, just laugh at their big "serious emotional intensity" -- Gemini's often find humor in the sickest of things.. (a trait they actually share W/ Scorpio) ----i love scorpios, because they do morph front of you from a scorpion, to an eagle to a phoenix. they are sooooo honest, couple that with their profound ability to facilitate healing and deep understanding and they are amazing people. i love them, maybe that's why i'm surrounded by them. Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:19:38 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#97860b33-a3b0-4f10-9d75-a0bb65e1b88a victoria 2005-12-29T21:19:38Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#4e312d66-cfd2-4011-9ab7-c51301ec080c crabby, what a beautiful explanation of what i just said...lol...how's this for focus hmmm..hmmm? ;-) yes, we all need to focus on the things that we are not so good at especially in communicating with others! overcoming the ego greatly helps in this direction. asking questions is hard to do. it makes us look weak and vulnerable. but it's actually a great strenght that helps me stay honest with myself...and therefore others.... Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:05:00 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#4e312d66-cfd2-4011-9ab7-c51301ec080c $item.owner.firstName 2005-12-29T21:05:00Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#7bd07668-0189-44e8-9691-84e1ede9667d yes mary ellen, i remember when i told you of your vedic chart last year i think it was.. oh you hated me then! -- haha the thing is the chart is read differently. There are so many layers of complexity, even on the surface vedic astrology, every planet has an incredibly deep meaning as a house lord etc. So especially a stellium of planets in ANY sign will be very profound.. In the 8th,, in Venus's sign - A cardinal sign.. See Mary Ellen you are a pisces in Vedic Astrology.. considering this thread i find this the most delicious of ironies! Escapism through 8th house matters, sex, death rebirth, Venus areas of life, whatever the stellium consists of would show the areas of life being transformed/strengthened. Look to the nakshatras (stars) for the deeper meaning, etc. Thu, 29 Dec 2005 20:56:26 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#7bd07668-0189-44e8-9691-84e1ede9667d Sadasiva 2005-12-29T20:56:26Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#f81253d3-7eed-4f8d-97c0-8be9b68104f0 Yes SHerpa-ji, I knew this would endear me to all -- i can seem so inhuman - so Gemini!- Actually much of what i am saying in this thread about Scorpio and the romanticizing of this nature, i have certainly experienced first hand and seen it in others. As i began studying Jyotish and making the transition, I saw how well it explained others, yet I was very reluctant to view myself as not having the Scorpio moon as I am, in fact, very intense (can you tell!?!) -- Yet Vedic Astrology is very subtle beneath the Surface and as i got to a deeper level i began to see where this intensity was more specifically explained through the Vedic System. What you say though has merit and i have seen this. My Western life/persona may be very easily explained by the Western Chart and actually when i am / was acting in accordance with Western Culture ideals,, I can definitely be more like a Cancer/Scorpio Moon. Much more neediness and unfulfillment and suffering around it, especially with women and relationships, etc. "I suspect (in the ways all Scorpios suspect) that Vedic astrology is custom-designed for people who are ready to escape INTO reality, rather than the Western style of FROM reality" Well it was designed a very very long time ago for just that purpose. Escaping into a deeper reality. Reaity is unavoidable, it is us, everywhere all the time. Just how much of it are we able to grasp. The Sun shines for blind man too. Thu, 29 Dec 2005 20:47:44 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#f81253d3-7eed-4f8d-97c0-8be9b68104f0 Sadasiva 2005-12-29T20:47:44Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#2164ca03-99e7-417e-99a4-5d33e6079be4 I'm terribly annoyed at my Vedic chart ~ Libra Sun, Moon & stellium, with a Pisces ascendant ~ bleck!! I think it's just 'as true/real' as my Western chart, but I prefer not to think about it! Yay! Scorpio, Aries!! love all-ways, mem Thu, 29 Dec 2005 20:40:01 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#2164ca03-99e7-417e-99a4-5d33e6079be4 MaryEllen 2005-12-29T20:40:01Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#146fbca8-7a93-4054-b951-097f1eda4653 Ah Sammi-ji! Your escapism has finally been given the exposure it deserves with the disclosure of your relief after shifting from your natal Western chart to your Vedic chart. By letting go of your unwanted Western heritage you can escape into the more favorable , by your terms, Vedic chart. Vedic escapism! I suspect (in the ways all Scorpios suspect) that Vedic astrology is custom-designed for people who are ready to escape INTO reality, rather than the Western style of FROM reality. This is not a joke; it's a puzzle. Thu, 29 Dec 2005 20:31:00 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#146fbca8-7a93-4054-b951-097f1eda4653 sherpa 2005-12-29T20:31:00Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#2cbefe2c-1e20-48c9-b629-fffbc9fabe61 Yes - the Scorp/Gem - 6/8 relationship is always challenging.. it demands we accept that which we cannot change.. This relationship helps the Scorpios lighten up and take things less personally -- Actually the Geminis get theirs from Capricorn -- now that's funny - A Gemini tangling with a Capricorn! This teaches the twins mainly about accepting responsibility and being practical. I happen to embody many of these conflicts myself. Especially when viewed through Western Astrology -- Gemini ascend-Merc-Venus, Cancer Sun Scorpio Moon/Neptune Any wonder i started doing Vedic Astrology. Gimme the Libra Moon and push the Sun back into Gemini,, Whew - that's better! And get the Mars out of VIRGO -- yes Leo that's better. Thu, 29 Dec 2005 20:19:37 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#2cbefe2c-1e20-48c9-b629-fffbc9fabe61 Sadasiva 2005-12-29T20:19:37Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#e4a48edf-a3b6-4e8c-8c2a-83107bba41e0 Starfish, I think you are right about te Scorpion needig to ask more questions - you are alluding to the differences in the signs, shown by their qualities. Pisces is mutable - Scorpio is fixed - This is really the biggest difference between them Pisces is mutable and needs to associate and move in order to grow - e.g. ask questions, communicate, process this way. This allows the fish, the fluid personal dynamic and identity that gives them strength and allows them to move freely between the different realms in their psyche. Scorpio is fixed and derives its strength from a stable focus where what comes to them gets integrated and provides the power the need to face what challenges them. The fluid dynamic of Pisces and the intensity and focus of Scorpio are both honorable. The Scorpio integrates more deeply than Pisces, whose dynamic and flow and openness is stronger. Yet the deep integration of Scorpio may close them off to others at times or make them slow to change - just as the dynamic Piscean flow may lack a depth of integration. Scorpion conviction in what they have integrated and reflected upon can come off to the Piscean dynamic, as being falsely self-assured, self contained and it may well be at times. Yet expecting the Scorpion to just ask a lot of questions is like asking the Pisces to just stay focused and determined about one thing at the exclusion of all others. Actually it is exactly what the Scorpio needs in order to evolve beyond being stuck in their emotions. AND it is exactly the same as realizing the Piscean needs to be more focused and steady and integrate and face what comes their way, (like Scorpio naturally does) not just continually look for another way to look at things or spin them. These signs actually can help each other enormously if they can find the shared compassion in their hearts, beyond the "should and "shouldn'ts" of life. Just don't mess with the Cancer or they'll kick both your watery asses! haha Thu, 29 Dec 2005 20:03:03 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#e4a48edf-a3b6-4e8c-8c2a-83107bba41e0 Sadasiva 2005-12-29T20:03:03Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#4fbe9948-67a5-438b-be82-46dbb09ee1d7 Sam and Mary: I agree with everything you've both said about the Gem/Scorp relationship tendencies, though I am compelled to add something in light of my longstandng marriage with (not to) a quadruple Gemini woman. My Scorpio confrontational style has proven impotent around Gem (ask any Scorp) and a new more effective tactic -- more indirect, less direct -- has emerged over the years. Let me explain. The Scorp/Gem quincunx can be grasped by placing Scorp on the ASC point and Gem ruling the 8th house. In this dynamic, Gem plays "death" to Scorp or, put more nicely, Gem acts as a catalyst for Scorp's transformation and evolution. Put Gem on the ASC point and Scorp rules the 6th house; Scorpo learns to serve Gem. A whole lot of depth and texture can be found in viewing other quincunx combos in this way. The way our quincunx breaks down in the daily routines of living together is that we get along famously as long as I let Gem get her way more often than I do in the context of the relationship. This does not mean I surrender to Gem but rather that I surrender attachment to getting my way (ego) more often. She agrees. And, I agree. By the way, since my natal Mars is in Capricorn and her Venus is in Aries, we also have our fun reversing these roles. And so, the complexity of who we are together remains intact ; never oversimplified and trivialized. Thu, 29 Dec 2005 20:02:08 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#4fbe9948-67a5-438b-be82-46dbb09ee1d7 sherpa 2005-12-29T20:02:08Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#c841ad20-cdd4-48c6-95a8-b58059145172 Hi Sam~ I don't hate you at all ~ much to the contrary! Please, keep 'beating me up' ~ I LOVE it! Rarely do I get such a fabulous work-over! "The Sign the Scorpions seem the most tweaked by is Gemini (8th from it) -- Why? because Gemini as a mutable Air sign simply refuses to be confined or defined by the Scorpio control/drama machine, no matter how hard a Scorpio will try to control a Gemini they cannot and it drives them nuts. PLus the gemini might kick their ass in an argument because the gemini will not lose control of their emotions so easily." I absolutely have found this to be true ~ I still seek out & have many Geminis as friends ~ but I'm pretty masochistic & also devoted to my occult studies ~ Gemini's always seem to be able to add that last magical ingredient that has eluded me, for so long, to my brew. I'll put up with just about anything, for that! "Yes they have alot of intuition, yet so do Cancer and Pisces (regarding emotions) so do Aquarius Gemini Libra (regarding the intellect) so do Taurus Cap, virgo (regarding order and the tangible world) so do Aries Sag and Leo (regarding action and inspiration) Every sign has an equal amount of innate intuition. Human beings are intuitive, all of them, not just Scorpios." This is a wonderful statement ~ thank you so much for this!! love all-ways, mem Thu, 29 Dec 2005 19:27:18 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#c841ad20-cdd4-48c6-95a8-b58059145172 MaryEllen 2005-12-29T19:27:18Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#389b8c0c-a6a2-4d1a-95b6-1aef82ca914c I have no feelings yet, Sherpa. Feelings are for chumps -- you scorpion, spider, dragon, eagle, dove, love-machine! Thu, 29 Dec 2005 19:13:04 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#389b8c0c-a6a2-4d1a-95b6-1aef82ca914c Sadasiva 2005-12-29T19:13:04Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#d5ba299a-e34a-409f-85f2-e28e6478b42b ..i believe we do have some say and willpower over our emotions and our evolution...it does require awareness tho...and willingness.......... :-) Thu, 29 Dec 2005 19:06:31 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#d5ba299a-e34a-409f-85f2-e28e6478b42b $item.owner.firstName 2005-12-29T19:06:31Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#d74c7cf8-73dc-4e6d-8b3f-32884851e622 yes, i've heard of this, ( altho i've only heard of the 3 stages of scropio), which i find quite fascinating, but, regardless of stage, or age, karma, would it not make sense to ask questions rather then assuming? this would make evolution a lot less painful. evolution is necessary and a process i could not live without. i need change to live....i find this very compatable with scorps, but for me it doesn't need to be so painful. it can be fun. for me the key is to ask questions when i'm unclear and this resolves a lot of the unnecessary pain water signs are capable of carrying. not to be preaching to you here, that is not the intent, i'm just seeking solutions. i don't belive we are governed (or trapped )by fate (evolution). Thu, 29 Dec 2005 19:02:27 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#d74c7cf8-73dc-4e6d-8b3f-32884851e622 $item.owner.firstName 2005-12-29T19:02:27Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#170b8e07-6eae-454d-ae41-1d77a2c41f9b Are you feeling it yet, Sam ? Thu, 29 Dec 2005 18:58:29 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#170b8e07-6eae-454d-ae41-1d77a2c41f9b sherpa 2005-12-29T18:58:29Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#b0acaa41-4b32-48d1-b1e5-d2f6c4db506f Interesting factoid - The Moon was in Scorpio yesterday and today - Sidereal Zodiac Thu, 29 Dec 2005 18:50:17 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#b0acaa41-4b32-48d1-b1e5-d2f6c4db506f Sadasiva 2005-12-29T18:50:17Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#2d804293-1394-4608-b0b7-fb820a749396 pisces star-fish: "why can't the scrop just say, 'hey, what do you mean by that?' or just ask questions if they don't know? " Scorpio (and the Eighth House) is represented by more than just the scorpion. This sign probably has more creatures assigned to it than any other sign: scorpion, spider, snake, dragon, eagle, dove, phoenix (did I miss any?). I personally have been able to relate to each and every one of these phases. I suspect this multiplicity has to do with the processes of evolution symbolized by the Eighth House, Pluto and Scorpio. And so one Scorpio Sun person may be more in a spider phase and another in a dove phase and another, Phoenix. I am reluctant to guage these phases as "degrees or stages of enlightenment", however, due to the high potential of self-delusion in those kinds of assessments. Who's to judge ? Who can say they know ? Even the lowly spider has its virtues. Thu, 29 Dec 2005 18:44:53 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#2d804293-1394-4608-b0b7-fb820a749396 sherpa 2005-12-29T18:44:53Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#510ad5c6-46d6-468d-bf77-5302d9b682d0 and btw, i do respect and appreciate your openness about this subject... openness - which i find very much taboo for your sign. i also appreciate and respect everyone else's contribution here regardless of zodiac sign, we all need to heal... :-) Thu, 29 Dec 2005 18:32:34 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#510ad5c6-46d6-468d-bf77-5302d9b682d0 $item.owner.firstName 2005-12-29T18:32:34Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#d0010684-256c-4697-a262-4819e427686b sherpa, you just touched on my biggest frustrations with scrops - they will challenge the pisces by projecting their own escapism on them. pisces do see (or this one anyway) the conflict and the ouch in the scorp (or in the situtation) and tries to bring it to light. this is our healing nature...but when we have to deal with that kind of manouver...we wonder if it's worth it? this is interesting about scrops, because scorpio present themselves as strong and deep, yet on all occasions i have witnessed that scrop will hide even more so, like a crab, rather then deal with the ouch. this is sooo frustrating! so this is why we leave, and therefore fulfill the prophecy -but we can't help someone or a situation that does not wanna be helped or can't express it in a way that does not push us away. i'm curious - why can't the scrop just say, 'hey, what do you mean by that?' or just ask questions if they don't know? yeah, sure, ok, that goes against their secretive nature ;-) Thu, 29 Dec 2005 18:19:29 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#d0010684-256c-4697-a262-4819e427686b $item.owner.firstName 2005-12-29T18:19:29Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#638deebc-d93c-466d-ab6c-0c83c86e1a8f Oh, and also Sherpa, I think a thread about each sign's escapist tendencies is a lovely idea! Would be very thought provoking and likely shed a lot of light. Doooooooooo it!! :) Thu, 29 Dec 2005 18:16:04 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#638deebc-d93c-466d-ab6c-0c83c86e1a8f Leah 2005-12-29T18:16:04Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#ecbda8cd-2680-4582-af01-94d9c9a5bff0 "Emotional intensity does not equal truth." That created very much of a "WHAT?! AHHHH!! Oh shit. Run away, run away" response in me. Thu, 29 Dec 2005 18:10:23 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#ecbda8cd-2680-4582-af01-94d9c9a5bff0 Leah 2005-12-29T18:10:23Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#7808e605-a3bd-403b-bbf3-e07eb960988f steve -- my exposure of the "tenderness and weaknesses" beneath the confrontational escapist style, that i've identified as my scorpio sun/ASC, requires no forgiveness on my part or anyone else's but rather respect. without this weaker side of my personality, i would not be who i am and be able to do what i do. all my closest relationships would also fail. i think i will start a new thread to find out how each sign manifests its escapist style or pattern of avoidance, unless anyone here is ready to step up to the plate and take a few swings. Thu, 29 Dec 2005 17:55:10 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#7808e605-a3bd-403b-bbf3-e07eb960988f sherpa 2005-12-29T17:55:10Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#cdcf1fa1-1c1e-4b06-8a83-f7785fc55acd mary ellen, it is 'bad' when a question is asked and it's not answered because it is taken as 'escapism'...lol....what is 'bad' about it is that it's intent is not being met and seems like a waste of time. mind you this is not the case here anymore cause you pretty much answered it. i hope i have done the same for you. :-) and yes, how you see it and how i see it will fundamentally be different, hence the title of this thread! blissings! now, i am escaping....hehehe Thu, 29 Dec 2005 17:51:45 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#cdcf1fa1-1c1e-4b06-8a83-f7785fc55acd $item.owner.firstName 2005-12-29T17:51:45Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#20621ade-1b06-4c5d-bce6-edd7d83bd287 I definitely join in a heartfelt Aw-w-w-w for Sherpa's candor. Every sign has it's defensiveness, but scorpio's may be the least likely recognized. My pisces sun makes it problematic for me to credit scorpio's sensitivity. It's easier for me to attribute my sensitivity to pisces than to my mars rising in scorpio. maybe scorpio's tenderness would stand out better in a chart with, for example, sun in aquarius. still, i can't help but chuckle a little bit over the notion that scorpio should be forgiven for it's "tenderness and weaknesses." i find myself trying to forgive it for it's paranoia that things are in constant and urgent need of fixing, but i appreciate the suggestion that sensitivity may underly that. also, any glamorization of scorpio seems to be more than offset by the typical bashings that it receives for its persistent transgressions into the affairs of others. what i say to my scorpio is something like, "so, you want to fix things? fine, just be ready to own the consequences of your failures." Thu, 29 Dec 2005 14:50:10 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#20621ade-1b06-4c5d-bce6-edd7d83bd287 stevo diVino 2005-12-29T14:50:10Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#6099f89b-4c06-4efe-be13-4e6cd06c2240 hummm.. i have three planets in scorpio and can't say i relate to your take. especially about geminis, which i seem to have an affinty with - both as friends and lovers. i have saturn in gemini and that's the only planet, have a mars in aquarius too, so perhaps don't feel weighted down by this so called scorpion heaviness or intensity. nonetheless three planets: venus, mecury and sun in scorpio (ok 2 planets and a star) all in eight house too. i would't say there is not much drama in my life nor do i breed such. have lots of adventure and interesting experiences though b Thu, 29 Dec 2005 10:58:28 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#6099f89b-4c06-4efe-be13-4e6cd06c2240 beatrix 2005-12-29T10:58:28Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#874df452-656a-45df-a005-aa7cfd3577a6 hey steve -- well it is no worse to be attached to emotions, nor is it any better, that is the point -- yet rarely do i hear Scorpio discussed so honestly as Sherpa, by saying that the negative behavior is a form of escape/protection of vulnerabilties. I usually hear scorpio feeling very attached to their emotional dramas and intensity as if it is something other than just attachments and projections - as if there is such great perception and intuition in this. Yes they have alot of intuition, yet so do Cancer and Pisces (regarding emotions) so do Aquarius Gemini Libra (regarding the intellect) so do Taurus Cap, virgo (regarding order and the tangible world) so do Aries Sag and Leo (regarding action and inspiration) Every sign has an equal amount of innate intuition. Human beings are intuitive, all of them, not just Scorpios. Yet i see this unbalanced assessment all the time in western Astrology. These Scorpio attachments are very much like Leo Pride., gemini spaciness, etc. we all have them -- no better no worse. I do no meant to beat Scorpio up - i truly don't,, actually i get along great with them -- i understand the enegrgy well but I would love to see Western Astrology get real about Scorpio and stop romanticizing the sign so much. It is to the detriment of those trying to evolve beyond the pain of this sign. Scorpios need to be as skeptical of their emotional intensity as Leo of their Pride or Capricorn of their excessively repsonsible nature, etc. Yet I rarely hear Scorpio say this. They will often defend this intensity to the end of the earth. When in fact, like Sherpa said, it is pure and simple avoidance of facing their own pain. Nothing like appointing yourself as the expert in another's psychology to avoid facing your own. I do not like to speak in sterotypes, but this seems true to me. I am sure all of the Scorpios hate me now-- haha BUT -- I am not just talking about Scoprpio Sun Signs.., Any planets in Scorpio will need discrimation and humor applied and to doubt their emotional intensity -- just like planets in Leo need to doubt the need to demand praise, etc. Thu, 29 Dec 2005 05:30:58 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#874df452-656a-45df-a005-aa7cfd3577a6 Sadasiva 2005-12-29T05:30:58Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#b69862bd-f531-4a1d-9b5f-46d310a06fdb as projected illusions go, what makes it any worse to be attached to emotions than, say, intelligence? should the gemini's thoughts or the saggitarian's wisdom be any less suspect than the scorpio's purpose or the piscean's intuition? Thu, 29 Dec 2005 04:42:40 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#b69862bd-f531-4a1d-9b5f-46d310a06fdb stevo diVino 2005-12-29T04:42:40Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#8039070b-ffe3-4958-8b47-7ff14ab099fb Sherpa, as always,.. you impress! "What I am usually avoiding and hiding when being confrontive is my own tenderness and weaknesses. " It is very useful to remember the traits of the signs, the animal, etc. A scorpion is BY FAR, the smallest and most vulnerable of the Zodiac animals. It is a little bug, easily crushed, stepped on. It has a stinger that generally will not kill any mammal, but may poison itself. Its insect body and numerous legs make it good at hiding in holes to avoid danger. Scorpio is motivated to avoid pain or difficulty (Tamasic) not to bring good (Sattwic) or experience pleasure (rajasic) This simply means that planets here will allow us to improve through work and determination, thereby strengthening our character. The other two tamasic signs are Virgo and Capricorn. the appearance of the sign shows A LOT about its nature.. All serious students of Astrology should understand why the signs look the way they do. This is one VERY small example of the detailed nature of Vedic Astrology. Here is an article of mine at widgetworld about this .. it is also in my book http://www.widgetsworld.co.uk/search/go.php?art_id=2327 Sherpa, -- Thanks for your candor in exposing what is the obvious flaw in the Scorpio archetype. Attachment to / escapism through their intensity and confrontational nature or need to be in constant control. I think more than any other sign Scorpio runs the risk of romanticizing and validating their projections and this fear based behavior. (In addition to the other two water signs, Cancer and Pisces that is) Yet I see more often than not how validated Scorpio's feel through these emotional projections. Generally the Cancers and pisceans seem to realize the flaw easier and the need to see beyond their fantasy emotional fears and attachments - mainly because they are ruled by Gentle planets (Moon and Jupiter/Neptune) and motivated by Sattwa. (goodness) When these other water signs hurt others they suffer perhaps more than those they hurt - Scorpio, this is not always the case. Much of the time, if they feel better after a confronataion,, well then "onto the next thing, because they had it coming and i know what is right!!" It is the fixed nature of this sign that has much to do with this stuck nature. Also Western pop astrology and even professional Astrologers romanticize this sign like no other - the scorpion, the eagle, the phoenix, and on and on. I find this perspective to be the most skewed of any in Astrology, #2 would be Leo. To be fair, and come clean, My western chart has plenty of Scorpio and watery attachments, as a Cancer Sun w/ Moon and Neptune in Scorpio - I also know this nature well - The Sign the Scorpions seem the most tweaked by is Gemini (8th from it) -- Why? because Gemini as a mutable Air sign simply refuses to be confined or defined by the Scorpio control/drama machine, no matter how hard a Scorpio will try to control a Gemini they cannot and it drives them nuts. PLus the gemini might kick their ass in an argument because the gemini will not lose control of their emotions so easily. I often hear Scorpios speak of Geminis like they are inhuman,, How can they possile not get involved in MY drama!! HOw can they possible keep their intellect flexible and pliable while I am seeting!?! Not only that, a Gemini may very well laugh at the whole thing.. probably the worst thing you can do the feelings of a Scorpio. if you want to really piss one off, just laugh at their big "serious emotional intensity" -- Gemini's often find humor in the sickest of things.. (a trait they actually share W/ Scorpio) THis is where Cancer and Pisces generally may handle things better, the capacity to not be so serious about their own emotional intensity. Yet all of the water signs will need to learn how to detach from their emotions. I do not mean to trash Scorpio. It is a powerful sign with enormous capacity for growth. But no moreso than any other - just because they are so serious about their emotions and the emotions of everybody around them, doesn't mean they are doing some great work,, yet again, the contrary is often said -- ooh Scorpio, so deep. It takes many Scorpio a long time to awaken to this realization. Emotional intensity does not equal truth. I am speaking about any planet in Scorpio, and also / especially the ascendant. Well this has already turned into the sequel -- "Scorpio - The Next Generation" Thu, 29 Dec 2005 04:06:48 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#8039070b-ffe3-4958-8b47-7ff14ab099fb Sadasiva 2005-12-29T04:06:48Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#2fef0018-4211-4380-9717-cec3e13dd741 As a Scorpio Sun male I'd like to share some of the burdon of escapsim that so often is assigned to the Pisces Sun person. Each sign expresses its own escapist style. The way I've seen it manifest in me is a tendency to escape through confrontation, rather than avoidance. However I have observed an undercurrent of avoidance hidden beneath this Scorpionic confrontational escapist style. What I am usually avoiding and hiding when being confrontive is my own tenderness and weaknesses. Everybody say: Aw-w-w-w. See what I mean ? Thu, 29 Dec 2005 01:29:48 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#2fef0018-4211-4380-9717-cec3e13dd741 sherpa 2005-12-29T01:29:48Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#eb63cf74-bf43-4e12-9861-1d2e234b68e4 Hi again~ Yes, I do see what you mean ~ but it just adds to my definition of 'escapism' ~ which, remember, isn't 'bad'! "..then off to figure out what, where, how to solve, to relay message, etc." still 'escaping', no matter what you do when away! Of course, we can both be 'correct' as we are dealing with personal definitions of concepts, but what is becoming even more highlighted for me, is that you really don't like the idea of 'escapism' ~ using terms such as 'justifying & splitting' ~ that does seem harsh (although I still don't find any fault with those actions either). In my mind, 'escapism' can be as simple as taking a few minutes of personal 'quiet time' to collect one's thoughts, adeptly locating a side door exit, when a room becomes too crowded or wisely avoiding a possibly dangerous situation. I would advise you to go easy on yourself, give yourself a break & appreciate those flexible, mutable & creative talents just a bit more, even if they sometimes show up under less than ideal circumstances! love all-ways, mem Thu, 29 Dec 2005 01:20:29 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#eb63cf74-bf43-4e12-9861-1d2e234b68e4 MaryEllen 2005-12-29T01:20:29Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#28cdeab5-976b-46b4-96da-d09d7a128d54 very interesting. thank you maryellen! allow me to clarify for everyone who is interested! it's not at all escapism. it's a question...a question where i'm already trying to figure out the answer. "it sounds like we are escaping...? (puzzlement) escaping what? (questioning you what you see us escaping) avoiding? (using other words to see if they resonate also) "i think that maybe that's what it looks like, but that's not exactly true from a pisces perspective of what we are doing" (taking responsibiltiy by clarifying that that is not what our intention is, so message must be getting lost in btw.) ..then off to figure out what, where, how to solve, to relay message, etc. you see? - of course when i look at this from a different angle, i can see that it can be read as, ' who us? no way, really? it's couldn't possibly be me'..then justifying..and splitting. personally i think it takes trust to really hear what the other is saying. but trust is not a given for some, it's earned, but the proof usually is in the pudding if you need proof - hence we are doing that right now :-) - i think this is important to learn, for everyone. i would say 'us' and 'scorpios ' but i think this 'lesson' doesn't always apply only to these signs. i also think that people have trained reactions and make assumption out of fear, out of fear that the other will not stick around to process with them...and then the generalizations of not being deep enough, or being flighty, or this or that..maybe it even leads from and to abandonment issues... so give more benefit of the doubt, give a minute, see how things evolve... very interesting how 'signs' and people in general communicate...fascinating...:-D btw, i'm still here...and i can always be found under my profile. :-P Thu, 29 Dec 2005 00:58:22 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#28cdeab5-976b-46b4-96da-d09d7a128d54 $item.owner.firstName 2005-12-29T00:58:22Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#60a48c21-691c-4c74-8412-9e17d25775df Star-fish~ No worries :) This part is what I would 'label' as 'escapist': "it sounds like we are escaping...? escaping what? avoiding? if so that is not the case. i think that maybe that's what it looks like, but that's not exactly true from a pisces perspective of what we are doing" In no way am I implying that this is 'wrong' or that 'escapist' is undesireable, just that the general 'feeling' of your statement was to pick a point (the word escapist) & then move away from it. love all-ways, mem Wed, 28 Dec 2005 19:43:52 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#60a48c21-691c-4c74-8412-9e17d25775df MaryEllen 2005-12-28T19:43:52Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#bcdc715f-785e-4f04-83ae-c9da833bcb08 I am an Aquarian woman with Scorpio rising and a Cancer Moon, married to a last day Libra, Scorpio Moon, Capricorn rising. He has all the Scorpio traits. We struggle so much! My husband tries to control me and i cannot be controlled. Although he denies up and down that he is controlling. He can also be very sympathetic, caring and nurturing during a crisis. I seem to understand him better than he does me though. He is very emotional and secretive. I am also emotional but thanks to my sun i can detatch when necessary. My sister is a Pisces and she married a Scorpio and that was a total disaster! Control seems to be a big factor in the Scorpio makeup. Just thought i'd add my 2 cents worth from my own personal experience. Wed, 28 Dec 2005 03:17:20 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#bcdc715f-785e-4f04-83ae-c9da833bcb08 Margaret 2005-12-28T03:17:20Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#e0f16121-2436-4914-9169-035063d2bc7d ps, the 'sheesh' part was meant to have a sarcastic emoticon like this ;-) the smartey pant kind of remark after it! you know as in 'sheesh' eyes roll...laughing at self kinda way? i just forgot to add it. damn these machines...they are so hard to express the multi level -ness of character! Tue, 27 Dec 2005 03:14:02 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#e0f16121-2436-4914-9169-035063d2bc7d $item.owner.firstName 2005-12-27T03:14:02Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#74badace-890e-4c5e-b09d-dc81de96c615 my question was 'clarifying' in nature, because not only did i ask the question 'why' but also gave my opinion of what it means to me and what is usually 'assumed'. can you tell me what made you think escapist about my response? i am curious, for the sake of learning... beacause this is not looking for a way out, but rather a way to focus on something more closely so to examine it. questions are good, altho not always nice or peasing... also, i don't always find scorpio going to the depth while other signs prefer something more pleasant...really...i think that's more of a victim kind of an attitude...cause each sign has depth and each sign has it's 'dark' side. oh boy do they ever! a pisces can be just, and even more so morbid, deep, and all that a scrop can...can a scrop deal with it tho? btw. this is not a challenge, but rather an observation of my x this has happened with. and no offense taken, and i hope you do not either, that is not my intention here, i wish there was an easier way to interpret 'tone of voice' online like it is in person. it's just very interesting how differently 'the signs' see things....especially signs that are 'suppose' to be compatable at a glance ;-) Tue, 27 Dec 2005 03:06:12 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#74badace-890e-4c5e-b09d-dc81de96c615 $item.owner.firstName 2005-12-27T03:06:12Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#ba697c44-db6e-4974-b7a6-9c4bab962e60 Star-fish~ 'Escapist' doesn't need to be interpreted as a 'bad thing' ~ there are many valid & important reasons/opportunities where 'escape' is the best choice. Pisces is a mutable & dualistic sign, affording exceptional flexibilty & overflowing creativity on every level. Yes, this can seem 'too much' to some other signs & Scorpio being fixed, can become annoyed at the appearance of 'lack of focus' ~ but you are completely correct that all of that is just appearances. In my opinion, the way you responded to my post was 'escapist' in nature ~ immediately looking for a way out and/or around ~ just my opinion & an observation ~ no judgement on that behavior intended. I'm sure LOTS more was/is going on there also ~ at the same time. Pisces strong ability to see the multitude of simultaneous happenings, at the same time, in the same place, just 'helps' them to wiggle out of any situation that they find at all displeasing ~ not a 'terrible' trait, but sometimes more telling of what the Pisces finds distasteful, than anything else, at least to me. I'm also not saying that Pisces always does this, just that it's a tendency that I've noticed. Remember too, that all of us have the sign of Pisces somewhere in our charts, even if it's not the 'sun sign' ~ so these characteristics apply to everyone, myself included ~ that's the bulk of the experience I am speaking from (& I will fully admit that I had a *feeling* you would react to my post, yet I sent it out, raw, anyways ~ I only 'play' with people I like ~ but I don't expect/require you to like me back). But I didn't call you a 'liar' or think of you as one ~ that's far too personal. I am sorry, if you took that too hard. I was commenting on the Pisces ability to identify & orient towards the 'most pleasant' aspects of any situation ~ sometimes at the 'expense' of the more gritty ones, during a shared reality experience. Yes, this also can be seen as 'a lie', but Scorpio runs into that difficulty with other signs also, as Scorpio will often strategically couch terms to appeal to their audience's sensibilites. Personally, I find the high art of lying to be deliciously admirable ~ but I'm an amoral Scorpio ;) love all-ways, mem Tue, 27 Dec 2005 02:04:49 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#ba697c44-db6e-4974-b7a6-9c4bab962e60 MaryEllen 2005-12-27T02:04:49Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#6c22b073-70c5-4f1e-9bd9-d6157d92ec2e that sounds like a reasonable explanation, thank you...i just can't help feeling like it's thrown at us constantly as a negative. ...human nature is = what is unknown is feared, mistrusted, etc. etc. thank heavens for the next 8 yrs! :-) Tue, 27 Dec 2005 01:46:05 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#6c22b073-70c5-4f1e-9bd9-d6157d92ec2e $item.owner.firstName 2005-12-27T01:46:05Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#02f4e014-1f2f-4848-9400-8166b12fd7c1 Since we tend to live in an escapist culture held together by escapist art, escapist media and escapist religions, it is very difficult to define this word "escapist". We have escaping from reality and then there is escaping into reality. And then, there is the "wisdom of no escape". How this applies to Pisces I think relates to the 12th House (Pisces natural home) which is perhaps the most complex and deep of all the houses as it is supposed to represent the oceanic consciousness of this thing called "subconscious" and "unconscious". There may be, of course, no such thing as an un-conscious (a term Freud coined) but only deeper degrees of consciousness. The 12th House also relates to the human territory of the internal landscape where solitude and withdrawal from the world at large is necessary to access their more vertical sources (as opposed to the more horizontal sources of society, family, work, etc). So from the view of someone on the outside looking in, the Pisces seems to be withdrawing and escaping but to the Pisces, she or he needs solitude to process all of what has been absorbed, for Pisces symbolizes the most receptive of the twelve signs and needs to disappear on occasion to sort through all these impressions. Tue, 27 Dec 2005 01:17:16 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#02f4e014-1f2f-4848-9400-8166b12fd7c1 sherpa 2005-12-27T01:17:16Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#3c6887bf-098b-46b4-acf7-f24800b3ec1e i'm curious what is meant by 'escapist' . i hear this often about pisces. it sounds like we are escaping...? escaping what? avoiding? if so that is not the case. i think that maybe that's what it looks like, but that's not exactly true from a pisces perspective of what we are doing...and unfortunately not many but a pisces can see that... we change depth...shallow, deep and in btween. not escaping just changing depth... or gears....does not mean we are not still there, or that we don't want to deal with things...it should also be taken into consideration that we are a split sign, and like to see both sides of things...this unfortunately leads to other's thinking we are liars...sheeshh... is this what is meant by escapist character...? Tue, 27 Dec 2005 00:54:03 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#3c6887bf-098b-46b4-acf7-f24800b3ec1e $item.owner.firstName 2005-12-27T00:54:03Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#3abb0a34-eb2f-4913-b132-47db9e956d88 Speaking as a 6XScorpio, I've never met a Pisces I didn't like. Pisces vibe on that non-verbal/psychic/emotional level that Scorpios explore fervently. Pisces does NOT vibe on the physical, carnal & morbid details that Scorpios find endlessly fascinating though & with a free-flowing, ever-changing, escapist character, Pisces can tell themselves (& others) all sorts of fanciful lies, that although well-intentioned, creative improvements upon shared context (for the most part), can drive Scorpio mad (a short drive!). I've learned to be extra-sensitive with my Pisces friends, not only because they have an extreme talent for applied, subtle cruelty, but because I enjoy having them around & know they appreciate my little flourishes like no other sign. love all-ways, mem Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:58:14 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#3abb0a34-eb2f-4913-b132-47db9e956d88 MaryEllen 2005-12-26T23:58:14Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#3fc76305-e4c8-49b5-9141-917099eb7ad1 If we are to generalize about Sun sign compatibility between Scorpio and Pisces, why not look to the symbols themselves for clues? The scorpion is a desert creature fed on heat and light and preying on smaller creatures called insects and the occasional prize mouse. The fishes live, feed, breed and breathe underwater in the often cool, dark and always wet domains of lakes, rivers, swamps and the ocean's depths. Each creature, scorpion and fish alike, are totally at home in their separate realms and these realms could not be more different. Their initial attraction could be evolutionary in nature, that is to say impersonal, as each creature's genetic memory banks begin resonating with the other's. The scorpion senses in the fish the origins of all planetary life and the fish intuit in the scorpion the possiblities of mutuation. They are not meant to understand each other. Conflicts arise when either attempts to impose their code on the other, which can only lead to strife and potential catastrophe. The fishes cannot breathe very long out of water and the scorpion can just as easily drown. If, however, these creatures can adapt a respect for the mystery of the Other something splendorous happens. They go about their own ways in harmony and without knowing why or how, as the "why" and "how" have been replaced by the dance itself. A wonderul story (just made it up) but much easier said than done. For the dance to continue, both creatures must want to evolve and must know that their own evolution depends on the other. Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:56:38 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#3fc76305-e4c8-49b5-9141-917099eb7ad1 sherpa 2005-12-26T23:56:38Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#b3b79144-2292-4b3f-8228-313844d587d7 Please take all this advice with a giant grain of salt and I’m not trying to insult anyone. Just observations. From personal experience I have not seen it work with the scorp guys I know unless they are really tender hearted and gentle (see Cancer), or playful and more easy going (see Sag). Most of the scorp guys I’ve known seem to date aquarius girls who (again in my experience) tend to be a little aloof and/or a little controlling even. So I’m not sure what the attraction is, maybe to have someone else be in charge. Maybe that kind of personality combination come across as powerful? Don’t know really. But since pisces girls aren’t really interested in being controlled (hate) or controlling anyone (double hate) If he is at all like that or needs that I don’t think you are going to be really comfortable living up to that type of scorp expectation. Plus. The scorp girls I’ve been friends with, although really charismatic and loving, can be really flaky in terms of showing up for you. Don’t know if this is true for the boys. Sorry I know this all sounds like convoluted logic and obviously lots of generalizing going on here but it’s just what I’ve observed in friends. Good luck. And don’t forget to actually see the person without the sign when looking at them :) Mon, 26 Dec 2005 21:00:04 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#b3b79144-2292-4b3f-8228-313844d587d7 Negin 2005-12-26T21:00:04Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#9f45679b-a8b8-4600-837b-3d91be1f17ad Daughter=pisces. Her boyfriend=Scorpio. Length of happy relationship thus far= 2 1/2 years! Common factor.......They are both intense martial artists. Wed, 21 Dec 2005 15:04:50 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#9f45679b-a8b8-4600-837b-3d91be1f17ad Robin 2005-12-21T15:04:50Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#b28e8966-55e1-42be-b3b2-8add2853b58f Hey randi, A good way to approach this is to say yes, planets that are in Scorpio and pisces will be compatible with one another. If it is the the two Sun's there will be a shared vision of life and how to actively live it. - If it is the Moon's there will be a commonality of emotions, feelings and how to express them, and nurture, etc. The Sun of one person and the moon of another will show the vision of one person comforts the feelings of another etc. This colored by the specific interpretations of each sign. The driving emotional intensity and passion of the Scorpio Sun comforts the pisces moon and it's need to feel connected and valued, etc. You can go through each planet this way. The vulnerable Moon in Scorpio is emboldened and encouraged by the Mars in Pisces person or comforted by the practical nature of the Saturn in pisces person, uplifted by the Venus in Pisces person, inspired by the Jupiter in pisces person, etc. In general though, for compatibility, look more to the Moon's not the Sun's - it is best to not even consider western Sun sign astrology for compatibility. it will show a shared vision, but many times the sun will TAKE YOU AWAY from a relationship, not bond you deeper to it. Moon is most important for mental affinity and connection. Wed, 21 Dec 2005 03:24:13 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#b28e8966-55e1-42be-b3b2-8add2853b58f Sadasiva 2005-12-21T03:24:13Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#55d8f78a-8c62-4b0f-8206-242ec5a830ea randi, go to www.astro.com - you can still (i think?) do a compatability chart there based on both (parties of question) birth time, dates. and locations. that will give you a much better idea of weather two people are compatable and more specifically 'where'...if you are generalizing, which i took your question as, face value, then everyone will have their own set...mind you there will be some that overlaps. i kid you not! Wed, 21 Dec 2005 03:20:49 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#55d8f78a-8c62-4b0f-8206-242ec5a830ea $item.owner.firstName 2005-12-21T03:20:49Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#8184fab9-ca67-4ce2-bf88-a782c971291b exactly, but the question was a 'generalizing' type of question... Wed, 21 Dec 2005 03:00:44 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#8184fab9-ca67-4ce2-bf88-a782c971291b $item.owner.firstName 2005-12-21T03:00:44Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#2352d289-b7de-43cb-a05c-11e3ed78da68 that must be quite the challenge when they are at odds, but i'm sure when the two get along it's also very very nice...wait, those are lame words...it's dynamic, exquisite, out of this world..it really must be... that's why i stuck around that long...for the good stuff. i'm sure both sides (in one entity) can really learn from each other in that case. you know, now that i think more of it, it seems like a blessing to have the pisces and scrop in you. they both have awesome traits to teach each other. i wish this was the case btw. two people too... Wed, 21 Dec 2005 02:59:08 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#2352d289-b7de-43cb-a05c-11e3ed78da68 $item.owner.firstName 2005-12-21T02:59:08Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#1f99edda-b65e-4a07-94d4-545b10fe6428 well, a lot of big generalizations here, based on your own personal experience with someone and based on the sun sign alone. I do not resonate on either account in your description of both pisces and scorpio. All the attributes you list can be emodied by both or neither. I have seen all the characteristics you mention of scorps in a pisces and vice versa. What is their moon, their mars etc...There is a whole chart to look at. I am a scorpio/libra cusp with a pisces rising and connect with both these signs. However, as mentioned, you can not go by sun sign alone, nor just off one's own personal experience with one or two individuals looking at only their sun sign. There are so many factors to consider, even ones completely removed from astrology. b Wed, 21 Dec 2005 02:54:27 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#1f99edda-b65e-4a07-94d4-545b10fe6428 beatrix 2005-12-21T02:54:27Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#b22308a8-3765-4bfe-8438-25319d3d372c Starfish...you pretty much just described my own internal dilemna with myself, being a scorpio sun and pisces moon.... it's a constant battle. Wed, 21 Dec 2005 02:44:45 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#b22308a8-3765-4bfe-8438-25319d3d372c kat 2005-12-21T02:44:45Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#c0143987-3974-4ae1-b4cb-d67d1356a36c oops, i forgot to mention, i'm speaking of scorp males. i've never been that intimately involved with a scorp female, so i don't know. also, pisces men can be quite different then pisces women. hope this generally helps ;-) Wed, 21 Dec 2005 02:15:53 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#c0143987-3974-4ae1-b4cb-d67d1356a36c $item.owner.firstName 2005-12-21T02:15:53Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#d7a813c5-a3ea-4016-9529-4417c2a632e6 one word from a pisces sun: no. ok then, a few more words why: (coming from being in an x long relationship with a double scorp male, and then some) scorpio needs to feel in control and take control - pisces is freedom loving and well, needs a lot of freedom of movement and no pre-conceived notions and assumptions of what she is. she needs an ocean to swim in, not an expectation, and to be trusted (because we really are compassionate souls and hate being misunderstood) unfortunately, scorpios try to grasp water and end up calling pisces a cold fish...cause you know what happens to water if you try to grab it, it's no longer in your hands. you need to cup it...but even then it will evaporate! so let it flow... scorpio imo is also very fear driven underneath all that sexual greatness (which btw i believe is not really the case as it's hyped up to be - it takes two to make that awesome chemistry!). pisces likes change and does a lot of it - pisces also sees two sides of things, her vision is not limited. yet pisces gets accused of being wishy washy and unstable scorpio ends up distrusting pisces and shutting down emotionally and becoming vendictive...and very secretive. scorpio says they are deep, pisces are deep. pisces do not need to portray themselves as mysterious, or keep that little bit of mysteriousness, because they see through it. worse yet they constantly wanna tell other's about themselves cause they are in a pursuit of growth and solving the mystery that they are. seriously, it's no fun being an enigma, no matter how glorified it is. it's a pain in the tail :-) pisces are also empathic and psychic. this is not easy for scorp to deal with because scorp needs facts and proof. in a spiritual world this is hard to do. pisces are also very compassionate and can be delicate, scorps tend to be like bulls in a chinashop once they get what they want. we can also be sharks, oh boy, can we ever! but we don't find it necessary to contstantly live in a world where we need to protect ourselves. so.... i do not normally like to generalize like this, but today i did for a change...of hats. if you wanna know a pisces, get to know one, be open, honest and compassionate (if you can). this goes pretty much if you wanna know any person no matter what the zodiac sign is. blissings......... Wed, 21 Dec 2005 01:55:09 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#d7a813c5-a3ea-4016-9529-4417c2a632e6 $item.owner.firstName 2005-12-21T01:55:09Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#334d0a24-9bf1-42a7-8d81-3942e08a3343 Generally speaking, very compatible at the outset. However, for more information on longterm compatibility, you really have to examine the entire horoscopes of both parties. What may feel harmonious and natural at first may turn into something else, not necessarily bad but different than the first impressions. And that is where the overview counts. from a Scorpio Sun who was once married to a Pisces Sun Wed, 21 Dec 2005 01:10:42 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#334d0a24-9bf1-42a7-8d81-3942e08a3343 sherpa 2005-12-21T01:10:42Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#2bc03d7b-32e9-472e-9f6b-82c159409fe8 I know they are both water elements, which lets things flow smoother, but any other input? Wed, 21 Dec 2005 01:01:41 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/ae1c802f-a717-4cd6-9f2d-94e4b1fdb72f#2bc03d7b-32e9-472e-9f6b-82c159409fe8 Randi 2005-12-21T01:01:41Z