I'm pretty new to learning about all this, so excuse me if i sound dumb :D But something I can't figure out is how do you even know if your moon and rising signs are accurate? I mean for example I'm a Pisces sun, Gemini moon, and Cancer rising.. but if you change the time of your birth just by an hour or two (or more) it can change your rising sign. And if you change your date of birth by a day or more, it can change your moon. Because it seems like your exact time of birth could be innacurate or not the time you were 'supposed' to be born if you were born by c-section, pre-mature, or for whatever other reasons. And even your date of birth might not be the date you were 'supposed' to be born. So I don't quite see how accurate the moon and rising signs can be.
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Unsu...
Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Fri, November 16, 2007 - 2:16 AMIt isn't the time someone is supposed to be born that determines their moon and rising signs, but when they actually were born. Doctors can make mistakes and be wrong about things like when someone will be born.
I, for one, was born two weeks late, by c-section. If I had been born "on time", I would have been a Cancer. Now, applying the reasoning that the date someone is supposed to be born should determine what they are like, I should be like a Cancer. I cannot associate with that sign, however; I find Leo to be far more accurate. It's the same with my rising and moon signs - my moon is Pisces, and I can tell that is accurate. My rising is Scorpio, and that also feels accurate; too accurate to be incorrect.
If there is some reason for you to doubt the accuracy of your rising and moon signs, then you should probably look into how correct your birth info is. However, if you are having difficulty associating with your Sun, Moon, or Rising signs, then there could be other influences in your chart obscuring the influences of these three.
And I don't think you sounded dumb at all. I was just beginning to learn about astrology not so long ago, so I can understand the confusion. Different websites would give me different rising signs, but the most frequent result was Scorpio rising; this was also the result on a site I now know is accurate. I hope I was able to help, since astrology can be quite frustrating to learn at first. -
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Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Fri, November 16, 2007 - 3:37 AMIt is possible to dowse for this, if you calibrate a pendulum by noticing which direction it gyrates when you say `yes` to yourself, then it should gyrate in the opposite direction when you are feeling and saying `no`. Then, holding the pendulum, you ask for example... was I born at 02:10, was I born at 02:20, was I born at 02:30 etc. and continue doing this at 10 minute intervals until you get a `yes` spin on the pendulum.
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Unsu...
Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Fri, November 16, 2007 - 4:55 AMI've tried dowsing before. It can be difficult to clear one's mind and not influence the results without a lot of practice. I never quite got the hang of it. -
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Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Fri, November 16, 2007 - 5:09 AMWell try doing something else with the mind to distract you, something nice like singing or whistling, or just thinking about something very nice. This works too when you are trying to find something, the eye falls on it so much quicker when you are not worried.
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Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Fri, November 16, 2007 - 5:58 AMThanks :) My signs do seem pretty accurate... I'm definitely a Pisces. There's no doubt about that.. the Pisces description fits me to a T. And the Cancer rising seems accurate too. I''m not real sure about the Gemini moon though. -
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Unsu...
Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Fri, November 16, 2007 - 6:30 AMWhen is your birthday? Does the moon change signs on that day? -
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Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Fri, November 16, 2007 - 2:45 PMNo but my moon sign changes if I change the day by about 2 days. And my rising sign changes if I change the time by an hour or more.
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Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Sat, November 17, 2007 - 5:47 PMIf I were born on the day that I was "supposed" to have been born, I would have been an Aquarius.
I am a Taurus, through and through.
Oh, yeah, I was supposed to be a boy, too. Funny, huh?
"Different websites would give me different rising signs, but the most frequent result was Scorpio rising; this was also the result on a site I now know is accurate." Different ephemerides can vary significantly in their interpretations of time, so it isn't a bad idea to check more than one source to verify, or to ask others for recommendations of web-sites or books when you are just getting started. -
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Unsu...
Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Sat, November 17, 2007 - 6:47 PMI've checked around enough that I'm quite sure now that Scorpio Rising is accurate. Checking multiple sources is definitely the way to go.
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Unsu...
Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Fri, November 16, 2007 - 5:10 AMIf you know the date of the birth you can have a time rectified .
You will not understand this because you are jumping out of the airplane before learning how to put on , moreless work the parashute.
They find out events that have taken place within your chart by how old you were or the year of the event took place.
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Unsu...
Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Fri, November 16, 2007 - 3:29 PMI always ask clients to confirm their time with a birth certificate. Even then, birth times can be inaccurate. If the Rising Sign winds up in the middle of the sign, I assume it is accurate. But if it is close to another sign, I tell the client it might be the other sign. Sometimes charts have to be "rectified" which is a process of working backwards to find the right chart. If you know the birth date the Moon Sign is usually accurate but could be off by one sign if the Moon changed signs that day.
I don't know about Western circles, but Vedic astrologers consider the moment you take your first breath to be the moment of birth. In Vedanta, breath is consciousness and is actually a measure of time, called prana. Your lifetime can be measured in breaths. If nothing else is true, as long as we are alive we are breathing. So really the birth chart is the birth of your breath.
Some say it is when the baby crowns, but it can be hours between crowning and when the baby is actually out. Others say it is when you cut the umbilical cord, but that can be cut hours or even days later! If it's when you start breathing than that solves any question about C-sections or induced labor because when you are "supposed" to be born is whenever you start breathing. It also solves the question of why we do birth charts and not conception charts. But it is an interesting question.
Once you start working with a person's birth chart, you can see whether it is working or not. If it works, why question the birth time?
David
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Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Fri, November 16, 2007 - 9:26 PMThere are people who do rectification who determine your birth time by tracking significant events i your life
For years My rising just seemed wrong and then I discovered that the Doctor who had delivered me and my first cousin on the same day
about an hour apart. she had gone into labor herself after delivering us she and reversed the times when she got around to doing the paper work several days later Once we traded birth times both my cousin and my charts made sense and correlated to our actual lives -
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Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Sat, November 17, 2007 - 1:15 PMfascinating!
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Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Sat, November 17, 2007 - 1:51 PMI would say review your birth certificate to find the exact hour and location. But I wonder, what if the doctor took a break and before he ticked the time with a signature of thick industrial grit and things were off 15 minutes. I jest. -
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Unsu...
Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Sat, November 17, 2007 - 2:53 PMthe nurse or midwife assistant usually documents the birthtime -it really pretty accurate anymore if the kid is born in a hospital. -
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Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Sat, November 17, 2007 - 6:02 PMThanks for the replies :D
But I guess my real question isn't about how accurate the birthtime is.. but more like, how could the literal birthtime make that much of a difference when the birthtime could have literally been any other time just as easily? I mean say for instance, a baby is born by a scheduled c-section, but if the baby was left to be born 'naturally' it would've been born 2 days later... then the moon and rising sign could be different. So how could the time the baby ended up being born make that much of a difference in it's personality (signs)? Sorry if I'm not being clear with my questions.. it's just hard for me to explain it right lol. And I'm pretty new to all this :) -
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Unsu...
Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Sat, November 17, 2007 - 7:25 PMI don't know exactly 'how' it works. However, I know two people with Sagittarius Rising, and there is something similar about them that doesn't fit anyone else I know. Similarly, I know two Libras and a Libra Rising, and there is something about each of them that is similar. If I had been born, say, two hours before or after I was, I would be a Libra Rising or Sagittarius Rising. However, the characteristics of those rising signs simply do not fit me. And in fact, the characteristics of most rising signs do not fit me.
With any person, the birth time could have been any other time, but once someone has been born, the birth time and date cannot be altered. Before birth, the date and time of birth are estimates of when it 'should' happen.
If each possible date and time of birth put together created a rope, each thread in the rope a single possibility, there would not be enough room for that entire rope in the fabric of existence; the thread which is woven into the fabric is the one which best fits the pattern, and once ingrained in the pattern it cannot be removed without leaving a distortion in the fabric where it had once been.
Er, sorry about the weird metaphor. I hope that was somehow helpful.
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Unsu...
Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Sat, November 17, 2007 - 7:26 PMA natal chart is not based on when a person is "supposed to be born" according to a human being. The natal chart is based on the moment of birth, like stated earlier, the momen of first breath. Someone can say it was supposed to be this way or supposed to be that way but when it comes down to it, the moment the baby was born is what is used. Most likely, if someone stated that a person was meant to be born two days later, most likely they weren't. Most likely they were meant to be born exactly when they were. I would say if you're just learning astrology, don't get hung up on questions that have no bearing to what actually "is"! The literal birthtime makes all the differance in the world for exactly the reasons you've stated, because if the literal birthtime is wrong than the whole chart will be inaccurate and therefore it won't fit. It makes a differance because of what was happening with the planets at the time of actual birth. You can't say "well I was supposed to be born two days later so why can my signs be so and so" because you weren't born two days later. It's what the planets and so forth were doing at the time of birth, understand? -
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Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Sat, November 17, 2007 - 7:37 PMI understand what you're saying :) I guess I'm just looking for a more 'scientific' answer. And I'm a Pisces lol.. I shouldn't even be worried about scientific proof :) Well I guess because I don't believe in fate or destiny and all that.. it makes it harder for me to believe that the time of birth is literally the time you were 'supposed' to be born rather than it just ended up being that time for one reason or another. Like I have a friend who delivered her baby via scheduled c-section, and she had a choice of which day to schedule the c-section lol. So It's hard for me to understand that the date she chose is literally the date the baby was 'supposed' to be born. -
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Unsu...
Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Sat, November 17, 2007 - 7:48 PMIs the post due to being premies or scheduled C sections ?
What you are born with is what is there for you .
It just changes the last month of birth the other prenatal months had a rising siogn and moon that remained the same until birth .
In times gone by there would be astrologer who would do prenatal charts for people and sometimes they would suggest C sections on different days to prevent things from going wrong or sometimes it just happens a woman doesn't go in labor but she ends up with toxicemia and needs to be induced -what is of importance is when you are born. I have known people to schedule a C section and then go in labor on a different day and end up being born when their mother's naturally went in labor. -
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Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Sat, November 17, 2007 - 7:52 PM"Is the post due to being premies or scheduled C sections ?"
Not necessarily, I just used that as an example. But thanks for your comments.. it's all interesting :) -
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Unsu...
Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Sun, November 18, 2007 - 7:37 AMFor a long time i felt like my chart didn't describe me -
You can ask your parents how they felt when you were born what did the room feel like this will help place the sun and rising sign better as well. With my kids I could feel the planetary influences from which they were born under.
kate
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Unsu...
Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Thu, November 22, 2007 - 10:24 AMI think Sarah was the one who touched this topic most cleanly - it is the moment of the first breath that infuses "the Spirit of Air" into the being, and brings the spirit of the child "full circle" (alchemically speaking) into its life.
Esoterically, Air is related to the plane of Thought... (so, when the baby *thinks* its time is usually *the* time. ;) Each soul and spirit has an "appointed purpose" (which is a thought), and the spirit simply "harmonizes" with the natal energies potential that best facilitates that "thought-purpose" - this is a different thing than "Fate" per se, but rather more like picking the right outfit for the right occasion. ;)
As for whether or not the literal birthtime makes that much of a difference, it does. Although time itself is a perceptual abstract (of a collective of natural forces) created by human beings, its measurement is fundamentally what Astrology is about. If you know the exact "time of spiritual arrival", you can garner a sense of the "thought-purpose" of any given being in why they *choose* to be here *when* they did.
Because that Air "formatting" is what is the Natal chart - its the fundamental fulcrum of when in time that you chose to incarnate in your being. In that sense, being "a little bit off" timewise can actually have a very profound change of meaning when its held up against the Zodiac, where every single degree holds a "slightly different" meaning than every other - you get a couple degrees away, and that's quite a few "slightly different"s that add up to something "completely different".
But it's all a matter of perspective. ;)
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Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Mon, November 19, 2007 - 8:10 AMactually my son was born in the hospital and the first thing I heard, even before his cry, was "11:17" coming from my nuse at my side! it killed me:) hospitals do record the time.
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Unsu...
Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Sun, November 18, 2007 - 7:57 AMHeather,
I think we've seen validation of your Gemini Moon here!
;) DR -
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Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Sun, November 18, 2007 - 10:21 PMLOL how can you tell? I'm not being sarcastic.. it's just that I really am new to all this, and I always just thought I was just a Pisces. I didn't know about moons, rising signs, etc. So I don't really even know how Gemini's usually are haha :)
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Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Sun, November 18, 2007 - 8:41 AMI agree with the post above about asking your parents if you can....
I was also born 2 weeks late -- my mother told me that when I was born I started crying and yelling as I was moving down the birth canal. ..apparently taking a breath before I was even out. The doctors had never seen anything like it before..
and low and behold....I am a Leo Rising.....I came roaring into the world and I think that it definitely fits. -
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Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Wed, November 21, 2007 - 3:12 PMMy 2nd child was a planned c-section. I 'attempted' to schedule his birth, but the room wasn't available. The spinal took much longer than planned, the entire delivery was later than expected. Had he been born just a few minutes ealier he would've had Virgo rising. But he is not at all a Virgo rising. He's terribly graceful and 'airy' and fiery (4 planets in Leo, Libra rising). We come into the world when we're good and ready.
P.s. I have the moon, rising and sun all in Gemini all within a couple of degrees. I appear much more fixed and emotional (Sun rising (leo) and moon rising (cancer), than I feel inside). Planets surrounding your Ascendant (aka rising sign) will modify things quite a bit (to confuse things even further). Astrology is very complex and it comes with time, a Gemini moon is hardly patient (lol, this I know ;-) -
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Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Fri, November 23, 2007 - 6:08 AMYour rising sign dictates your outgoing nature, how the world sees you, and what you physically look like. Me, I have very Scorpio rising eyes, and the typical physique and hairiness too. So if you check around the web for `physical appearance of rising signs` you could confirm yours that way.
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Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Fri, November 23, 2007 - 4:51 PMgo here www.alabe.com/freechart -
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Re: How do you know if your moon and rising signs are accurate?
Fri, November 23, 2007 - 5:50 PMThanks :) That was the first place I went to when I started trying to figure out my signs.
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