And that sounds wonderful. For some of us, it just sort of a chart.

Currently,

I do not discuss astrology with people who I don't trust or like or just met. When the subject starts, e.g. my overzealous sister wants to be popular and I'm her currency, and I actually oblige (a few beers, maybe), then I feel dirty. That's why I prefer this forum and feel a bit protective of it.

In this context faith = belief, not religion.
If you then don't believe in astrology...then there would be no point in studying it.

Eh, and if not, so what? We have each other. LOL!

I am sure you offer many surprises.

Well, perhaps it is an East Coast thing, as mem suggests. I usually meet with a dismissive chuckle or glazed eyes when the topic of astrology comes up in these quarters. Most people in this hustle bustle place don't have the time, patience, or interest to look into astrology. I know a couple of people who are interested, but I doubt they even know about the vertex.

11th house Neptune :-)?

That's not just a California thing. The sun sign hang-up is not geographically specific.
As a Californian I can vouch for that.

Peace, Bo

haha. LOL.

"Yeah. I basically do not talk about it much to folks around here, except to say things like, "Well, Mercury is in retrograde again, you know." That usually gets a wan smile."

Smile back wanly :)

"I get more annoyed with people who say 'cos everyone knows its rubbish'"

When people go out of their way to dismiss it like that, I've been known to ask them how long they studied the subject before they felt qualified to judge it.

LOL. You just never know. Sometimes, people will be harboring things that they don't even want to admit. LOL. Aren't they cute?

"We live in a world where databases have more power than people."

bingo . . . and likewise, some of us surrender power to astrological databases.

Yeah, but then you get a guy like Niels Bohr who told Wolgang Pauli:

"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question which divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct. My own feeling is that it is not crazy enough."

My kind of physicist.

Jesus consciously uses astrological and kabbalistic allegories, check out the Mazdayasna and Cabbalah tribes. But that is not all: hundreds of churches all over the world use zodiacal imagery. Jesus coming has been prophesized by his predecessors in astrological terms. It's ironic that the people driving in cars with a fish sticker on the bumper try to paganize it so vehemently, where they themselves should search their souls, as they follow the wrong fish . But they can't help it, probably some Pluto -Jupiter squares inconjunct their moon. Anyway, that time is over, where one fish swims this way and the other...we are rapidly moving into the Aquarian age where the currents will be in synergy...

They are all the same - the divisionists and those who want to confuse others with fear and scepticism. The project their own hidden thoughts and guilt complexes onto others. Jesus didn't use this symbolism just in a speculative way, he wanted to wake people up to the archetypical energies and hierarchies represented by the many wheels above and below such as in the Pistis Sophia. There are allways two paths: that of Devotion and that of Knowledge, they come together in Sophia.

All the nations long for the same truth...and truth is the same for all nations. It doesn't matter which creed or practise you follow, as long as you Love All and fear not. Astrological knowledge is the supreme path to Gnosis, many here think it it just a way to figure out your own personalities and those of others to create an illusion of control over your projected fear and desire complexes.

Think of it though...In India they have described one hundred part of A (sabian) degree...each little degree holds whole galaxies in it's eyes looking back at us...influenced by us...everything recorded going back whole Aeons until now, the amount of knowledge inherent in a birth chart is infinite.

But the divine art of Astrology goes much farther than that, it holds the keys to liberation, yet it is not enough to just intellectualize and speculate, true astrology comes forth where the micro-cosm consciously transforms itself from the fetters of karma symbolized by the energy flows of the charts and wholeheartedly embraces the freedom of Dharmic expression hidden superimposed in the birth chart.

This has been the adept practise for Aeons in the esoterical traditions of Christianity, Alchemy, Cabbalah, Sufism, Mazdayasna, Kemet and both exoterically and esoterically by the many traditions inherent in Buddhism and Santana Dharma. The 'churches' (which in no way reflect the true Ecclesia) have been taken over by the miserly and opportunists, so has science...not yet the ever-persecuted Third Stream of Gnosticism, the real heritage of Western Spirituality, but it is all the same...There is still so much to learn from other times and cultures, such as Kemet, the Aztecs, the Chinese, etc....

We should forego this spirit of isolation and bickering that prevails among the ignorant in the 'real world' and at least on tribe celebrate an atmosphere of tolerance and openess, not just for eachothers personal stories but also for the more outlandish and metaphysical streams of consciousness, many a pearl washes a shore that way...

This kind of love -- well, in MHO, Uranian energy has that with all (albiet seemingly soul-less). Piscean energy has it with all (and loses self in the process). I like that we're in the age of Aquarius.

"the collective"-never. Well, at least not the way my Neptunian self sees it.

Spirituality is between the individual and God, the way I see it. Then, again, my Pisces Sun IS in the 7th, "house of partnerships".

And, of course, it also depends on what you mean by "the collective". If you resume yourself to witnessing the divine in God's work, then it's cool.

But letting yourself being dragged into human social plays is not the way to find the divine. Humans are all doomed to make mistakes, and just because some people feel passionate and sure of themselves in pursuing this or that ideal, or supporting this or that belief doesn't mean they're right. (like me, yes..LOL)

well, thank you, sherpa.

I feel so much better now.

And as long as "tormented" doesn't imply "stupid", I'm in.

"the animal side, the spiritual side...same thing...expressions of the same spirit."

These are two different things.

To say "same thing" - Is different than saying "expressions of the same spirit"

The body is the "expressions of the same spirit" - as is everything else.

But the animal side and spiritual side are not "the same thing".

The needs of the body are different than the needs of the soul.

The body holds the Souls needs, but not Vice versa.

The body is finite and limited. The soul is eternal.

The body must be honored as the agency of direct experiential wisdom in the moment - as expressing the souls wisdom. But thinking the body (limited Self) to be the soul or the ultimate nature of Self is the source of all human suffering.

This is what happens when Eastern mysticism interacts with the Western mind.

methinks.

i'm sorry.
how many classes is your tribe addiction causing you to fail this semester?

I look at it as a metaphoric system, which involves a kind of thinking that is often disregarded in the post-modern world. Astrology has an organizing principle that is capable of utilizing a variety of other metaphoric systems to illuminate itself. Some of us are oriented to thinking in this manner, so, of course, we would be interested in it, particlarly when it seems to shed light on certain issues of consciousness and how they relate to understanding ourselves.

The symbols in astrology are archetypes, which by their nature have a sort of numinous grandiosity. Archetypes tend to dazzle until they are absorbed and understood.

ps.

singhilarity,

I know what u mean, but I had already manifested negative Pisces traits for 15 years(all my life at that time) when I found astrology and realized it was in my "nature".(well, according to this so-called pseudo-science, cause I always knew nothing was engraved in stone)

Astrology is indeed a very deep science once you get to know it deeper ..
It is for those who are eager to know more about past,present and future

Well, except for the physicists, of course.

Convictions create convicts.

Reality is what you can get away with!

/endquote

'They tend to come off as soul-less.'

They quite often do! However to be drawn into a profession that aims to learn more about the world, the universe and mysteries of life I think would hint toward a soul-ful curiosity that may underline their outward personalities. A soulfullness that I believe they either fear or are afraid to reveal even to themselves.
I personally feel that many (obviously not all) scientists and in fact atheists are actually people who are drawn deeply toward the mystery of the soul but are either too scared of their own power, or too scared of this mystery to accept it openly as to do so brings it into question, and may undermine their own feelings of security. Far better to protect the heart and their own hopes to come to terms now with the 'reality' that there is nothing out there. Far easier is it to control our own disappointment that way.
Even Darwin prayed.

I believe that too much or too much or too little Air or Water can cause this complex. Fire is more obvious, but I believe that this element accounts for those who simply don't care about the subject at all. They intuitively are aware of their own supremecy, they just forget that everyone else is just as supreme.

no, he just jams his blather in wherever it strikes his fancy . . . he's not actually trying to communicate with anyone but himself.

Puleeeeaase, can we not leave Palin out of *one* little diiscussion. *why* so much attention to her...reality too unpleasant?

Some people really are media victims...they can't seem to focus on what is important and get lost in the circuitous babble of mainstream news.

(pardon the tangent)