peregrine

topic posted Thu, October 29, 2009 - 10:36 PM by  baby egg
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I dont know too much about this concept, and I feel a little overwhelmed by the weight ive seen it cull in interpretations. It really fascinates me, maybe its the feeling of the word itself and how i relate to its concept.
I am wondering if a planet unaspected is more or less peregrine compared to a incompatible sign/house placement?

lets hear it, genius astrologers...
posted by:
baby egg
Portland
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  • Re: peregrine

    Thu, October 29, 2009 - 10:39 PM
    oh, please share your own chart examples too! i forgot to say so!
    i am so scattered and busy right now... me and the internet have a very foggy relationship!
  • Re: peregrine

    Thu, October 29, 2009 - 10:41 PM
    Peregrine means without essential dignity according to Ptolemy. I don't think it has to do with aspects so much as placement
    • Re: peregrine

      Thu, October 29, 2009 - 11:03 PM
      thanks yoda... stiiilllll i am curious, a lot has been said about a planet being peregrine whilst not making a single aspect to any other planet, its like a drifter, without a caretaker..so its placement makes a void in the chart
      I just found out about it through the chirotic blog that teresa linked to, theres a lot of articles about it there.
      for example sylvia plaths moon in libra makes no other aspects in her chart

      chirotic.wordpress.com/tag/peregrine/


      chirotic.wordpress.com/2008/0...-movie/
      this article is pretty good too
      • Re: peregrine

        Thu, October 29, 2009 - 11:20 PM
        Teresa knows her stuff. The way I understand it, making no aspect is "void of course", not peregrine. Neither of these is a bed of roses though.
        • Re: peregrine

          Fri, October 30, 2009 - 12:03 AM
          interesting.
          my saturn makes no aspects, except a sextile with jupiter 6 degree orb, is that too big to be considered an aspect? would you think my saturn is void then? theres a few other aspects but they're not major, like a sesquiquadrate with my sun, semi sextile with my moon and uranus, and semi square neptune, it does square ascendant with a 6 degree orb, I really dont know... how much weight to give all of that.
          • Re: peregrine

            Fri, October 30, 2009 - 12:08 AM
            void of course has a more thorough definition, so I'd have to see if the sextile is applying, and if it makes the sextile aspect before the quicker planet changes signs.

            The minor aspects I tend to neglect for such things as determining if something is void of course.
            • Re: peregrine

              Fri, October 30, 2009 - 12:16 AM
              i dont know if i understand this stuff..... my saturn is 15 scorpio, my jupiter is 10 capricorn, so they're not close to changing signs... i feel like i am missing something here!
              • Re: peregrine

                Fri, October 30, 2009 - 12:20 AM
                you're doing fine! It took me a while to get the hang of this peregrine/void-of-course stuff... It's pretty advanced stuff.

                Your Saturn has course because Jupiter moves faster, and it will be making a perfect 60 degree sextile before either planet changes signs. I ought to tell you that the void of course thing usually only applies to the moon the way I understand it. More knowledgeable folks may come around and correct me, but I'm pretty sure I'm being accurate here.
                • Re: peregrine

                  Fri, October 30, 2009 - 12:24 AM
                  haha,

                  yeah i thought void of course was with the moon too, when its about to change signs, in the inbetween stage.

                  i just want to know if my saturn is a weird one or not. it doesn't really aspect anything in my chart. i dont think you can use anything over 5 degrees for a sextile, right? a square is different, but if its the ascendant?? i dont know...? tricky. maybe my saturn is lost in space, and thats why i have no discipline and i am so so so scattered all the time!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: peregrine

                    Fri, October 30, 2009 - 12:28 AM
                    in a natal chart, I entertain wider orbits, so a 6 degree orbit would work for me. it's not a strong aspect, but it sounds like jup and sat "get along" well.

                    For transits, I tighten up the orbits to 1 degree of orbit for the planets, 3 degrees for the luminaries: Sol & Lady Luna, (less whimsically, Sun and Moon, lol).
                    • Re: peregrine

                      Fri, October 30, 2009 - 12:29 AM
                      you oughta post your chart! It helps the astrologers in this tribe get an idea of what's going on. It's not a requirement, but it does help a lot if you're asking questions.
                      • Re: peregrine

                        Fri, October 30, 2009 - 12:45 AM
                        I understand peregrine the sane as yoda and you normally find it's only used regularly in horary. It essentially refers to a planet that has no dignity in the sign it's in. It doesn't really matter what aspects it makes or not, tho some suggest that if it's mutually received by another planet then the effects are lessened.
                        As yoda said it's not to be confused with being void of course which means any planet which will make no more applying aspects to any other planet before leaving the sign it's in.
                        • Re: peregrine

                          Fri, October 30, 2009 - 12:53 AM
                          cool, thanks paul. so my jupiter in capricorn is peregrine because its in its fall, non dignified.
                          i wonder why they were saying sylvia plaths moon was peregrine, any idea?
                          • Re: peregrine

                            Fri, October 30, 2009 - 1:44 AM
                            baby egg

                            "cool, thanks paul. so my jupiter in capricorn is peregrine because its in its fall, non dignified. "

                            Oh actually I think it the planet is in detriment or fall its not considered peregrine. Not sure now though. I don't really use/notice peregrine planets too much. As I say, its mostly used in Horary and my horary skills are (frankly) rubbish. Teresa is pretty much our resident 'expert' on horary. She probably wouldn't like me describing her like that, but basically she konws the most about horary from what I can tell. She'd certainly know more about it. Lets hope she replies!
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: peregrine

          Fri, October 30, 2009 - 2:36 PM
          "The way I understand it, making no aspect is "void of course", not peregrine. Neither of these is a bed of roses though."

          Yes, when a planet makes no aspect to another before it changes signs it is considered void. This can be good or bad, depending on how you look at it. The ancients said that the Sun and Moon when void is not very good because they are "the lights" in astrology, and so they are a very strong part of your life force. When there is no interaction with other planets that means that the light of the Sun or Moon is not transfered to anything, so their potential is not really reached and it leads to unhappiness, emptiness, disastisfaction, etc. Think of a beautiful wall flower, or someone who might only be recognized after death. Other planets can be strengthened by being void though because they do not share their light, they keep it to themselves and act very pure, natural and strong in their energy. I know someone with a void Mars and he is VERY driven, physically fit (buff!), athletic, strong-willed, etc. His Mars certainly isn't weak, it's very prominent in being void. Even though he has Mars in Cancer in fall, which cools off the firey nature of Mars, it being void almost over-rides his watery nature. He does have the typical self-defensive nature, over-reacting to things, and often acts before a clear course of action is met though, but it is more under the surface than anything else.
  • Re: peregrine

    Fri, October 30, 2009 - 1:25 AM
    Ok so I have Venus in my chart in the 8H and the only aspect it makes is a quincunx to my ASC. Which would Venus be void of course or Peregrine?
    • Re: peregrine

      Fri, October 30, 2009 - 1:40 AM
      Myzil

      Your venus is unaspected. However it WILL make other aspects before it leaves the sign its in, therefore it is NOT void of course.
      Venus being in Gemini is peregrine.

      (I hope that my understanding of this is right. Where's Teresa when you need her!?)
      There's something called 'terms' in relation to whether a planet is dignified or not, and to be honest I don't really know what the terms are for any sign/planet.

      myzil you can tell whether a planet is void of course by checking to see whether it will make any more aspects before leaving the sign. If nothing else your venus will opposition saturn before leaving gemini.
      • Re: peregrine

        Fri, October 30, 2009 - 1:56 AM
        "myzil you can tell whether a planet is void of course by checking to see whether it will make any more aspects before leaving the sign. If nothing else your venus will opposition saturn before leaving gemini."

        Yes it would oppose Saturn and Uranus, as well as Conjunct my Mercury. Actually it would be opposed to my Saturn Uranus conjunction when it conjnucts my Mercury.
    • Re: peregrine

      Fri, October 30, 2009 - 1:47 AM
      myzil, your venus seems to be both peregrine and void of course, but forget void of course as it probably only applies to the moon. I refered to Ptolemy's table of essential dignities in the Gemini column, btw. Venus has a "term" at 21 degrees Gemini, but your Venus is at 8 degrees Gemini.

      Nothing to worry about, though. Peregrine and Void of course are mainly used in Horary Astrology like Paul said, and so I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
      • Re: peregrine

        Fri, October 30, 2009 - 1:49 AM
        Paul, you're right, it will make aspects before it leaves the sign it's in. I'm used to my program's layout so much that I just looked at the aspect grid for course, lol.

        Teresa's probably glad that she doesn't have to be the one to go over all of this, but I'm sure she'll correct us if we make any gross errors.
      • Re: peregrine

        Fri, October 30, 2009 - 1:51 AM
        ugh, not 8 degrees gemini either. Time for Yoda to get a lobotomy...
        • Re: peregrine

          Fri, October 30, 2009 - 2:00 AM
          Yoda,

          "ugh, not 8 degrees gemini either. Time for Yoda to get a lobotomy"

          Yea i was gonna tell u it was 14d lol. 12 degrees from conjuncting my Mercury. So this planet is just usless then, bcuz I have no idea how my Venus has or had an effect on me at all.
          • Re: peregrine

            Fri, October 30, 2009 - 2:12 AM
            Well Venus is just after your 8th house cusp which is a focal point of sorts, and it's a part of who you are even if it's not strong as an ox. I wouldn't say any planet is useless, just has a certain character to it. It's not like you don't have a Venus in your chart or anything too drastic like that. Your moon is definitely stronger than your Venus, for example, and Gemini gets a lot of action in your chart, so Venus is in the mix for you.
        • Re: peregrine

          Fri, October 30, 2009 - 2:16 AM
          Yoda

          "ugh, not 8 degrees gemini either. Time for Yoda to get a lobotomy... "

          ;p Yeah I also saw the 8 beside venus before realising that it was the 8th House instead!
          Void of course is easy enough to see I think by just look at the chart. Often it can be quicker than studying the aspect grid.


          Myzil

          "yes it would oppose Saturn and Uranus, as well as Conjunct my Mercury. Actually it would be opposed to my Saturn Uranus conjunction when it conjnucts my Mercury."

          Certainly it would opposition Saturn and Uranus because they are slower planets than Venus is. However there would be the possibility that Mercury, being fast than venus, would remain constantly 'ahead' of Venus and therefore Venus would never get a chance to conjunct it in that sign. This isn't to be used as 'accurate' but a good rule of thumb is to realise that any planets in the first of any sign will PROBABLY make aspects to other planets before leaving that sign. After all unless all your planets are previous in degree to that sign it shoudl make SOME aspect to another. I normally wouldn't even think of void of course unless the planet is after 20 degrees of that sign, but of course you COULD find charts that would contradict that. Just a good generalisation though that would work most of the time.

          "so this planet is just usless then, bcuz I have no idea how my Venus has or had an effect on me at all. "

          Useless? Of course not.
          It's actually a very important planet. I think I said something about this in the Chart Interpretation tribe.
          Venus rules your descendant. It's quite an important planet. However as it is unaspected, all this really means is that this planet is not 'plugged in' consciously into your psyche too well. It is there, but you are less 'aware' of it. It doesn't help that its in the house of the 'underground', the 8th House. In other words you have the Venus energy there, but it is somewhat repressed perhaps in that 8th House and you are not terribly aware of it (because it rules the descendant and is unaspected). Almost certainly you will be attracted to heavily venusian people and will most likely 'marry' a venusian person who work in some way with venus in some other way. You may also be terribly repulsed by venusian qualities as you don't recognise them in yourself.
          Here's the important part though, anything not conscious does not disappear, in fact you almost give it more power, as it is free to act subconsciously without you realising it. It's like an invisible planet, its still there, but you just can't see it. Any unaspected planet is a loose cannon in the chart. It's also one of the most 'feminine' of planets, the other being the moon. As I've said before, your chart seems very much about the masculine versus the feminine. It suggests that you do not integrate the masculine and the feminine equally or 'holistically' or easily in your life. You may well overcompensate for one at the expense of the other. As I said in that other post, its likely that, with mars as the subject of your t-square, that you will overcompensate your mars energy and seek to see yourself as 'martial' or 'masculine' whilst, beneath your attention/understanding is that unaspected venus playing out in your life without your awareness.


          • Re: peregrine

            Fri, October 30, 2009 - 2:35 AM
            Myzil

            To look more closely at that peregrine (and unaspected venus) in relation to that t-square mars, one thing I would be concerned about it would be issues pertaining to something along the lines of some kind of body dismorphic disorder. Or a feeling that you are too 'feminine' and need to be more manly (what feminie and manly actually means though, you probably do not stop to consider). This body-shape/image dismophia/obsession may not be overly compulsive but the suggestion is that it probably is. I suggested already in the other tribe that there may be some issue with wanting to overcompensate for a feeling of feminity in your psyche (which you may mistake for weakness) which may lead to excessive worrying about your body or excessive attention to it. I would suggest by these aspects that someone with them would be someone who may work out quite a lot or want to deny themselves creature comfort foods. You may also seek to 'power dress' to make you appear more masculine. However, you may feel self-sabotaged during lower moments when you reach for comfort foods or want a 'lazy' day or nice massage (and other typical venusian stuff). You may be repulsed by other people who are overweight (or underweight) as you basically project your own discomforts/issues onto others.

            I don't mean this in any negative way. We all have our own 'issues' but I mention it because, were you inclined, you could use astrology to allow yourself greater understanding of this, and therefore you yourself. It's interesting for me because, benath all that need for masculinity, ultimately you are actually a cancer sun. You may actually not like the typical sun sign descriptions of yourself. Also you have the moon in venus' earthy sign of Taurus too. Perhaps some of this stems from your own mum, but of course the moon is in the 7H and I have theorised before that we sometimes (not always) give 7th Planets away to others, normally loved ones. Moon and Venus are typically feminine signs, but then so is your sun sign. This is definitely at odds with your needing to overcompensate with that t-square to mars in pisces.

            • Re: peregrine

              Fri, October 30, 2009 - 3:23 AM
              Paul- All of this is pretty interesting and around the target. Except for me getting repulsed by other people weight lol thats to strong of a word. I say more concerned or interested in what got them that way. Its just a subject matter that interests me because its something I have always had to deal with.

              "You may actually not like the typical sun sign descriptions of yourself. Also you have the moon in venus' earthy sign of Taurus too."

              To me, they make Cancer Suns seem so lame. Like all we do is wine and moan about shit. So no, I dont always agree with my sun sign descriptions. They seem to definitely fit my mother, Cancer Sun, more accurately tho....... My Moon is in Gemini though 0degrees, although I SOMETIMES see a little Taurus Moon come out of me. Mainly in relationships, but I am not a stickler for a relationships at the moment. But that can also be my Venus in 8H.

              I seem to actually have a fair balance of Masculine and Feminine signs, which I like. Gemini//Mercury damn near rules my chart, and to be honest, I feel like either a Gemini or Scorpio/Cancer depending on my disposition( sounds very Cancer like huh lol).

              An interesting note on the health of others and it repulsing me or not. I wouldnt say it does, but I like trying to help others out with their health and fitness. One of my goals is to actually become a Certified personal trainer.

              As far as my Venus tho, I guess I just have to pay attention to matter of the 8th House to see the effects of it on my life. Especially in my relationships with others.
              • Re: peregrine

                Fri, October 30, 2009 - 3:41 AM
                Myzil

                "I say more concerned or interested in what got them that way. Its just a subject matter that interests me because its something I have always had to deal with."

                That's good! It's probably because, in your case you DO have some planets in Taurus, venus' natural sign, particularly the Moon. Perhaps it makes you less likely to dissociate.

                "Its just a subject matter that interests me because its something I have always had to deal with. "

                Yeah having to 'constantly' deal with something is often found around issues pertaining to unaspected planets, heavily aspected planets and t-squares. At least that's what I've noticed. Something similar will be seen around elemental imbalances, though I see the elements as being more a 'timbre' to a chart than the planets are.

                "To me, they make Cancer Suns seem so lame. Like all we do is wine and moan about shit. So no, I dont always agree with my sun sign descriptions."

                lol yeah that's what I thought. The interesting thing then is how you'll develop that Cancer sun, of course you could repress that cancer sun or unacknowledge it, but its still part of you. What other things are descriptive of a cancer sun, not related to whinging and moaning?

                "My Moon is in Gemini though 0degrees, although I SOMETIMES see a little Taurus Moon come out of me. "

                Ah! My apologies! If your birth time is off by a few mintues of course, it could well be a Taurus Moon. Tough one. Lets assume its right tho!

                "An interesting note on the health of others and it repulsing me or not. I wouldnt say it does, but I like trying to help others out with their health and fitness. One of my goals is to actually become a Certified personal trainer."

                Ah now that really is interesting. It suggests that this is coming through in your life. It really also shows the t-square at work too. You're working with it. By helping others of course, you seek to help your self 'internally'. This isn't a bad thing or anythign like that, just worth paying attention to. It coudl become a problem if you think other people 'should' do something about their weight or that they 'should' exercise more, as then you're putting yourself as a judge of other people. Obviously if people want help with their weights its a different issue! Again, I'm not saying you'd do this, I'm just putting it out there for the purposes of bringing any potential negative into the light where they can be made more aware of and dealt with if necessary.

                "I seem to actually have a fair balance of Masculine and Feminine signs, which I like."

                A balance between the signs, maybe, but I wouldn't think that masculine and feminie energies are 'easily' balanced within you, as they seem to conflict against one another. One part wants to be the alpha male, strong, powerful the other part wants to be care for others and shw compassion. The suggestion is that at some point in your life this will not gel well but that ultimately you'll learn to integrate the two and not see them as being two seperate things or an 'either or' scenario. You can do both. Perhaps you've learned this already, but mostly these things take a bit of time.

                "As far as my Venus tho, I guess I just have to pay attention to matter of the 8th House to see the effects of it on my life. Especially in my relationships with others."

                Yeah one intersting thing might be to check out when things transitted it or check out previous progressions etc. Particularly around the time of meeting that woman and then the end of that relationship. See if anything is going on. You might be able to shed more light on it and notice a pattern and then you could check transits/progressions in the future too. Whilst you're at it I'd also check out anything aspecting hte T-Square too. I know you're saying that Mercury rules your chart, in my mind the focus of a T-Square and any unaspected planets gain a great deal of weight in the person's life. I think Mercury is certainly involved as it is part of that t-square, but mars and venus are powerful little players and you may overlook them. Ultimately though, your 'real' chart ruler is Pluto and it is close to your ascendant suggesting that throughout your life you will be go through a kind of alchemy, espeically being trine your sun. A simplistic intperpretation might be to suggest that your attitudes and bodyshape may undergo powerful transformations in your life. You're the mythic phoenix.
          • Re: peregrine

            Fri, October 30, 2009 - 2:50 AM
            ". Almost certainly you will be attracted to heavily venusian people and will most likely 'marry' a venusian person who work in some way with venus in some other way. You may also be terribly repulsed by venusian qualities as you don't recognise them in yourself. "

            I was heavily attracted to heavily Venusian woman before. Our fall out was kind of nasty tho so I dont kno how to even feel about that type anymore haha.

            "As I said in that other post, its likely that, with mars as the subject of your t-square, that you will overcompensate your mars energy and seek to see yourself as 'martial' or 'masculine' whilst, beneath your attention/understanding is that unaspected venus playing out in your life without your awareness. "

            So how would an individual be able to make that energy more apparent on a consistent basis. Would it take possibly other aspects or transits to activate and make more visable? Or would this just be one of those things in a chart that is going to be on the back burner, nonetheless burning?
            • Re: peregrine

              Fri, October 30, 2009 - 2:58 AM
              myzil

              Inevitably something will transit that venus (or even the moon or descendant) and make that energy known to you. Of course how you respond to that will be up to you. Of course the obvious advice is to try to integrate that venus into yourself more, I think the best way to do that is through the moon and descendant in Taurus which should do much to help integrate that venus.
              The simple answer is to not shun venusian qualities or belittle them. Try to recognise your own venusian qualities in yourself (naturally tempered by gemini obviously). What you don't want is to fall in love with someone who is willing to 'carry' that venus for you, as the possibility is that were she to leave you, that venus becomes even more associated with being a negative thing (and becomes more repressed). This seems to have happened to some extent already with that heavily venusian women you fell in love with. The fall out was kind of nasty you say, which itself suggests that your feelings of pleasure/comfort/values were 'let down' by that woman. It's complicated by venus dispositing the sevneth house and all the planets there, and there might have been a 'surrogate mother' quality with that relationship. If she gave you reasons why it didn't work, try to listen carefully to them (despite them being painful) and do not rule them out straight away. Perhaps she is partly right (undoubtedly she is partly wrong also, as nobody is totally objective). What reasons did she give for it not working out or what was the 'nastiness' related to - check if its related in any way to venus qualities either repressed or over emphasised.
              • Re: peregrine

                Fri, October 30, 2009 - 3:33 AM
                Paul-

                I left her. I never got any reasons for why it didnt work because she knew her actions was the reason. It was more so a trust issue than anything else. Just couldnt ever trust the woman at all. She was unfaithful. To be completely honest, it took alot for me to let myself be tied down to her in the first place, or any woman for that matter (hmmm interesting that I say that with my Venus in Gemini). Maybe this is where it effects me is in my relationships? Neway, when I realized that the relationship was going nowhere, I dropped it. Of course she was upset but I was more pissed off than she was for wasting my time and effort.
                • Re: peregrine

                  Fri, October 30, 2009 - 3:46 AM
                  myzil

                  You left her? NOw that really is intersting. Taurus is a heavily 'faithful' sign, it needs comfort and security. You said she was heavily venusian. What did you mean by that?

                  Of course venus in gemini never wants to be tied down and venus in the 8th (with scorp rising too) doesn't trust too easily in the first place. You may have expected her to be unfaithful in the firstplace, and of course she did what was expected of her. Perhaps a part of the appeal was that on some level you knew it wasn't going to work and would therefore justify some of your presumptions. Just a thought. I don't know. Venus relates to values. I would wonder on whether there are issues of self-worth here too.

                  There's a really good book I'd advise EVERYONE to read, but you might find intersting. It's called Astrology for Lovers by Liz Greene. Please don't let hte title put you off, its not really for lovers at all. It's just a brilliant book on psychological astrology. I think she added the 'for lovers' bit for marketing appeal. It's a brilliant book.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: peregrine

                    Fri, October 30, 2009 - 2:29 PM
                    ***Taurus is a heavily 'faithful' sign, it needs comfort and security. You said she was heavily venusian. What did you mean by that? ***8

                    Taurus is faithful in about the same degree as scorpio. Let them down and they'll be faithful mainly to themselves.

                    Heavily venusian basically means 1. very fond of pleasure and beauty (in the classic sense, not as in 'aethereal beauty', 'the beauty of the world of ideas' or 'the beauty of death') , 2. always considering the profit of an action/move/acquisition/relationship (not only material, but other kinds as well ..it's just that nothing is done without a sense of profit/gain). 3. pretty tactical and tenacious in approach (knowing the wants, acting upon the needs, sticking to the goal until the end). 4. introverted and rather passive or reactive than active, calm and even placid on the surface, but with a lot of latent force inside. It's true though that I might be emphasizing the taurean brand of venusian here.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: peregrine

                    Sat, October 31, 2009 - 12:02 PM
                    Paul

                    Paul-

                    "The interesting thing then is how you'll develop that Cancer sun, of course you could repress that cancer sun or unacknowledge it, but its still part of you. What other things are descriptive of a cancer sun, not related to whinging and moaning?"

                    Its definetely developed. I relate well to my Cancer Sun. I have had that under control for a long time. I was just saying, the descriptions are a little ridiculous with the emotional bashings and, and that we are whinners and moaners. But positive side is the tenacity, knowing what people want, being in tune with whats around us, intuition etc.

                    "Ah! My apologies! If your birth time is off by a few mintues of course, it could well be a Taurus Moon. Tough one. Lets assume its right tho! "

                    Yea I checked my birth certificate and it said it was the correct time. Plus, the way I feel about security and relationships etc, It definitely not Taurean in any way. I like my freedom lol.

                    "Ultimately though, your 'real' chart ruler is Pluto and it is close to your ascendant suggesting that throughout your life you will be go through a kind of alchemy, espeically being trine your sun. A simplistic intperpretation might be to suggest that your attitudes and bodyshape may undergo powerful transformations in your life. You're the mythic phoenix. "

                    Yea ive been noticing that trine aspect and well. The whole phoenix persona is definitely prominent in my life. Im always forced to change or adapt to things as soon as I get comfortable with myself. I realize Pluto is the chart ruler so I tend to use that energy to help deal with things.

                    "f course venus in gemini never wants to be tied down and venus in the 8th (with scorp rising too) doesn't trust too easily in the first place. You may have expected her to be unfaithful in the firstplace, and of course she did what was expected of her. Perhaps a part of the appeal was that on some level you knew it wasn't going to work and would therefore justify some of your presumptions. "

                    1000% correct on all levels lol. Self-worth tho is something I had to deal with a little more when I was younger. Now, I am more aware of my self-worth and esteem. That's anpther reason I just dont engage in relationships with any women that comes my way. Ive pasted up a few good ones because of this. Not particularity happy about it but in my eyes, they weren't ready.

                    "There's a really good book I'd advise EVERYONE to read, but you might find intersting. It's called Astrology for Lovers by Liz Greene"

                    I read part of that book in Borders(I'm not sure if they have it in the UK, at least I didnt see one when I was out there but its a bookstore). It is an interesting book.
                    • Re: peregrine

                      Sat, October 31, 2009 - 4:33 PM
                      "I read part of that book in Borders(I'm not sure if they have it in the UK, at least I didnt see one when I was out there but its a bookstore). It is an interesting book."

                      America has given us electricity, starbucks and now borders! Yup we have it!
                      • Re: peregrine

                        Sun, November 1, 2009 - 11:24 PM
                        "America has given us electricity, starbucks and now borders! Yup we have it!"

                        Lol that is good to kno. I havent been there in a while. I goinf to have to make another trip around that way.
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      Re: peregrine

      Fri, October 30, 2009 - 3:15 PM
      Myzil,

      Your Venus would be controversial, because some astrologers say a planet that is unaspected at birth is void, while others will say it is not because it will be aspected by the Moon later. I would say your Venus shouldn't be taken as void, but as unaspected at your time of birth (that is a tiny bit different). Future and past aspects to your planets are sort of important in your chart and is the main reason why some astrologers use progressions. No one is static, you change over time.

      A Venus that is unaspected is pretty much interpreted the same was a void Venus though. Venus is not sharing its energy with anyone, it keeps it to itself. This could change as you get older though, and might relate more to how you behave in your younger years. A Venus that is not interacting with any other planets is likely a social butterfly, attractive and charming, but it is also usually a bit lazy and passive in its expression (especially in romance). This is especially true in Gemini because Venus lack focus and abhors routine. It's not that you can't commit, but it might be more difficult for you. You wouldn't likely see something like this in a concert pianist, for example (practice, practice, practice), nor other types of artists because Venus doesn't share its gifts as much (it doesn't translate light to anything). Having an 8th house placement does make it a bit contradictory though, as that is a deeper house and there is at the same time a want for deep and meaningful relationships and the like. I would say it is harder for you to show such feelings though.
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        Re: peregrine

        Fri, October 30, 2009 - 3:22 PM
        Also, Myzil, your Venus has term dignity so it's not peregrine. But Venus doesn't really act peregrine or term in Gemini anyway. Venus benefits from the social energy of air, but it also makes it more fickle and inclined to self-indulgence.
      • Re: peregrine

        Sun, November 1, 2009 - 11:51 PM
        Teresa

        "A Venus that is not interacting with any other planets is likely a social butterfly"

        Not really lol. Im to myself really but I can be a social person when I feel like it. Maybe its my Scorpio Rising blocking that "socialness"

        "but it is also usually a bit lazy and passive in its expression (especially in romance)"

        Laziness is something im trying to rid in my life. It is getting annoying and disruptive.

        "It's not that you can't commit, but it might be more difficult for you"

        Commitment, mostly in getting into relationships, is very hard for me. It's just not that many women that interest me for a long period of time. I value relationships, but if im going to be in one, it has to have some kind of substance to it. So at this point in life, I am opposed to "serious" relationships.

        "I would say it is harder for you to show such feelings though. "

        The three words, the ones that all women want to hear, is very hard to get outta me. I dont say it if I dont dearly and deeply mean it. It takes me a while to show my feelings. But, I never show all of them though. No matter how much I feel.
        • Re: peregrine

          Mon, November 2, 2009 - 1:00 AM
          "The three words, the ones that all women want to hear, is very hard to get outta me. "

          Which three words? Oh yeah - You're Right Darling.
          • Re: peregrine

            Mon, November 2, 2009 - 1:06 AM
            Haha those three two.
            • Re: peregrine

              Mon, November 2, 2009 - 1:16 AM
              Damn its late. I cant spell to save my life. TOO i meant.
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                Re: peregrine

                Mon, November 2, 2009 - 1:28 AM
                it is neither dignified nor debilitated or in in mutual reception with another.
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                  Re: peregrine

                  Mon, November 2, 2009 - 1:33 AM
                  "it is neither dignified nor debilitated or in in mutual reception with another."

                  I've never heard of this last part. Essential dignity and accidental dignity are two different things. By being peregrine you are essentially debilitated. By being in mutual reception you are accidentally dignified. Therein lies the distinction here.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
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                    Re: peregrine

                    Mon, November 2, 2009 - 1:37 AM
                    I should say it would not have any essential dignity (vs debilitated), but would be accidentally dignified...
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                  Re: peregrine

                  Mon, November 2, 2009 - 1:42 AM
                  Here's one quote:

                  "Under normal circumstances a peregrine planet lacks the necessary strength to convey lasting benefit. Its position of weakness can be alleviated, however, if it is strongly dignified accidentally or if it forms a mutual reception with a stronger planet."

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                    Re: peregrine

                    Mon, November 2, 2009 - 1:55 AM
                    venus or mars in Gemini when it comes to romance this is the trick. If you desire a long lasting relationship with a particular person by all means don't think about the possibilities of how it would be or about kissing because when ya do that you've already had the relationship already and it is as though Cupid's arrows go limp.
                    • Re: peregrine

                      Mon, November 2, 2009 - 1:58 AM
                      I think the thing with mars/venus in Gemini is that it ultimately hates to think that its missing out on something else. Venus in Gemini also values not putting all its eggs in one basket.
                      I don't know what the solution is, I have mars in gemini myself.
                      • Re: peregrine

                        Thu, November 5, 2009 - 9:07 AM
                        "I think the thing with mars/venus in Gemini is that it ultimately hates to think that its missing out on something else. Venus in Gemini also values not putting all its eggs in one basket. "

                        Agreed. That's exactly how I felt in my last relationship. It lacked substance so I was always wondering why the hell am I in this relationship with this person in the first place lol. I think my Venus in Gemini makes me curious in a way as well. Bcuz like I said before, I get bored very easily with women. The flame just doesnt ever ignite. Its like a match lol
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              Re: peregrine

              Mon, November 2, 2009 - 1:23 AM
              "I value relationships, but if im going to be in one, it has to have some kind of substance to it. So at this point in life, I am opposed to "serious" relationships."

              That's a little contradictory, just as I said. You say that you want a relationship with substance, but then you say that you go on to say that you are opposed to serious relationships. Hmmm....
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                Re: peregrine

                Mon, November 2, 2009 - 1:30 AM
                Ah, it is late... You aren't the only one with The Dumb. And the hr change doesn't help.
              • Re: peregrine

                Thu, November 5, 2009 - 9:00 AM
                Teresa

                I know it sounds contradictory lol what I mean is if im going to be in a relationship it has to have a deepness and substance to it. But at this particular moment in my life, I am opposed to letting myself get into one of those relationships until I get some things fixed with myself first. Get it?
        • Re: peregrine

          Mon, November 2, 2009 - 1:32 AM
          myzil

          "Laziness is something im trying to rid in my life. It is getting annoying and disruptive. "

          I think this is a sentance that adaquately sums up the unaspected venus (with taurus on the desc). Perhaps you dislike your venus? Of course there is a balance between laziness and venus - but with venus not integrated too well in the chart the suggestion here is that venusian things may be disliked.

          "Commitment, mostly in getting into relationships, is very hard for me. It's just not that many women that interest me for a long period of time. I value relationships, but if im going to be in one, it has to have some kind of substance to it. So at this point in life, I am opposed to "serious" relationships."

          A little self-contradictory? You've described venus in gemini perfectly though - difficult for one person to hold your attention for too long. Of course you want something with depth and gravitas - unfortunately you fear the pain of losing someone you love deeply. One solution, especially with Venus in an air sign, might be to attempt to convince yourself/rationalise to yourself that you do not need/want deep relationships.




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    Re: peregrine

    Fri, October 30, 2009 - 2:09 PM
    You know what's a really great book on natal birth chart analysis and dignity placements is "Understanding the Birth Chart: A Comprehensive Guide to Classical Interpretation," by Kevin Burk. He talks about each planet in each one of the signs, by their degrees, and how the domicile, exaltation, triplicity, term, face, fall, peregrine, and detriment dignities within the signs of that planet shape the person. I go to this book a lot when I am reading someone's chart.

    Sorry, I didn't read through the whole thread, but "peregrine" is an old concept developed by Ptolemy that most modern astrologers ignore. Peregrine literally means "lost" or "wandering." These planets lack dignity at all, as was mentioned, and so are very weak and rely on the strength of other planets in order to work more properly. The planet that disposits them tends to have a lot of say in how the peregrine planet performs, or could even be the reason that the planet lacks strength (the cause of the debility). The peregrine planet even tries to act like the planet that disposits it, but doesn't really know how to pull it off.

    An example would be my peregrine Saturn in Virgo. It also trines my Mercury. My Saturn is obsessed with rules, very logical, too much so, and so it makes me more like your typical DMV associate who knit-picks every little detail on your motor vehicle paper work. I had a phone call about a student loan deferment today that acted very Saturn in Virgo. I am on general assistance while I look for work, which only lasts 3 mos, and so I qualify for deferment. The student loan company told me that they had to defer my loan to a later date than I asked, then called back and said that the date they wanted to defer it to wouldn't work because my general assistance runs out at that time (even though I am broke and obviously can't pay the loan). These types of moments are very Saturn in Virgo. They lack perspective because they are peregrine and so wander around until they learn that sometimes it's better that things get done (such as just defer my loan, damn it!) rather than exactly to the rules.

    I hope this helps. Sorry, I'm fighting The Bug!
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      Re: peregrine

      Fri, October 30, 2009 - 2:24 PM
      Here's what that author says about peregrine planets:

      Peregrine planets have no affinity, strength, talent, or resources; but at the same time, they do not have any essential debilities either. Peregrine planets in natal charts are very different from peregrine planets in other forms of astrology. In horary and electional astrology, a peregrine planet is in very bad shape; in natal astrology, where we have the ability to work with our understanding of the planets over the course of our lives, peregrine planets are simply less predictable and less typical in their expression. This is not necessarily a bad thing, and it also does not mean that peregrine planets can't express themselves. However, peregrine planets do seem to take a very roundabout way of getting from point A to point B. A peregrine planet in a natal chart is like an actor who has been cast against type in a role; the actor's approach to the part is unusual, and not at all what we would expect, and it takes some time to get used to it and to accept the actor's performance - but the actor still has a fighting chance of turning in an acceptable performance in the end.
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        Re: peregrine

        Fri, October 30, 2009 - 2:48 PM
        If anyone is curious about their dignities, I would suggest they try to read Ptolemy's table of essential dignities:

        www.skyscript.co.uk/dig2.html

        I know the table is a little overwhelming, but it's really not bad once you get the hang of it. BTW, "house" = domicile (rulership) Strength goes left to right. Fall and detriment are both a weakness, as is peregrine.

        Sometimes your planet will have multiple dignities.

        If your planet doesn't fall anywhere in the table, that means it's peregrine. If you don't understand how to read the table, I can tell you your dignities for you.

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