Sherpa,

That was one of the reasons why I wrote a blog entry about living for something. I find that I may not care about anything and that troubles me. That might also have to do with my value system i.e. Venus. My Venus being in Virgo and nearly unaspected it seems that there isn't much that I value, thus not much that I care about or so it seems. "Being cared for" has some ring of truth to it. I don't stop my mom from caring for me when she visits, even when I protest that I want to do things for myself (secretly I don't want her to stop caring for me). However a person can only do that for so long without giving something back. Maybe its just something that I can't switch on and off like I would like to do. I really do want to know what I care about tho.

Pardon the existential crisis.

Dragonwire relax....I was only joking with Quentin. but it was in fall nonetheless

"Unless you are "living to do battle".. I think Aries and Scorpio may confuse these things though, given mars rules them - they may see life as a series of battles"

Sam.. Yes sometimes passively but yes. Life is one long endless series of battles.
We move or press forward, reality pushes or presses back. I can see this as Mars is were we push harder. I think you can also equate mars energy w/ the will to live. What I got from this idea is a Mars placement might show were we find the strength to push harder from. Like Ok director, "Whats my motivation"..
Vesta- what you find sacred??.. That more of a memory, or Idea, or feeling.
Pallas-what is worth fighting for…same thing. An Ideal.
Mars is the Pure action. The raw energy. Maybe to really determine this, question you need to look at many things. But mars hold the orders and carries them out. Ok Saturn. too.

The word context here has to with the nature of pain and suffering. Pain is found everywhere in nature, is unavoidable, and ment to be so. This is the reason that giving birth is refered to as labor - a task ( an enormous one just to witness, let alone undertake ;-) requiring unbelievable self control and mastery over pain. Everyday labor - work - is pain. It occurs we deal with it, we live the experience in the moment and we let it go. Suffering on the other hand is exclusively a human experience. Suffering comes from the pain we refuse to let go of that festers into resentment (to feel again). So labor is a reminder to let it go so as to avoid harboring resentment and the suffering that comes with it.

Mars is most definately going to signify what is worth fighting for at the core - where it is you define the will to live. Like the original post states - this is the ego's assertion of individual superiority for the purpose of survival (sole survivor if necessary). As far as Aries/Scorpio seeing life as a series of battles and thus confusing all of life as a struggle - this will lead to suffering. To overcome this primal combative/defensive state is a fundamental task for the teenaged Aries/Scorpio. Some learn it well and know when to pick and choose their battles and know both the value of apparent victory and apparent defeat.

A few more thoughts on this important subject and then i must get back to work -

It is very easy to mistake the intensity and drama of Mars, the thrill of battle, the aliveness of the adrenaline rush and whatnot -- to actually be the goal itself and the reason we are living -- so I can see why this happens - Yet i think, this is also why such atrocities are committed once a war begins - if we are not careful with mars, our morals and principles will slide in all directions one that anger get opened up. ON a deep level Mars is also the quality of mind that will justify anything, inluding murder. Mars is the black and white concept of mind - good/bad/ - right/wrong is mars thinking - you or me -- This has a deep survival impoerative as noted, so it feels real in the moment.

Mars teaches that it can be very east to lose sight of the goal in the heat and thrill of the battle..

I see this in relationships a lot -- some people just like to argue and want to win the argument, rather than find the truth and how to fix it it (Jupiter and Venus)--this is the same thing. They lose the long term goal of JUpiter and the Sun in the momentary thrill of Mars.

Sam,

Thanks for adding more dry data to the roaring Mars bonfire. It's good thing to read many different angles on how this under-rated astrological symbol can be interpreted.

I understand the astrological formula you stand by and I think it is a good one some of the time but not one I would personally appy to every horoscope reading. So you know that I understand the essence of what you're presenting here, I include your distillation:

Sun - king, long term vision
Jupiter - laws and priniples, philosophy
Mars - army, puts it into action

I find this formula attractive and accurate as an ideal; it makes perfect sense and is eloquent. However, I find it somewhat impractical and even erroneous as a model to superimpose over each and every chart. Permit me to explain what I mean by sharing something of how I approach Mars in the horoscope readings I do.

How I find the core principle of "what someone might be living for" is through a confluence of connections starting with the sign and natal house placement of Mars. Then, I look to the ASC (as the ruler of the 1st House) and to the house placement of the planet associated with whatever sign Mars is in. These pieces make up the Mars puzzle for me. I do not automatically assume that Jupiter and the Sun will be involved; sometimes they are, sometimes they're not.

I can see the truth behind your associations of Jupiter and the law, though I think government structures tend to be more Saturn related than Solar related. I can see how the Sun can indicate a governing figurehead, like the king or president, but as we know figureheads are often trumped by other hidden governing factors (GW Bush may be our best local example).

In real life, I have found that people do not always act (Mars) in accord with principles (Jupiter) or with their best interests (Sun). Often times, people may not even be aware of what principles they find worthy of living by. See for yourself by asking anyone on the streets: "What are the principles that you live for and act by ?" If you videotaped their responses, I think you would have a fascinating sociological documentary.

Many of us often act out of, and fight for, totally irrational reasons, many of which have little or nothing to do with the noble notions symbolized by Jupiter and the Sun. The Mars force obviously can and does work its energy out in many other ways. And so my point here is more of a pragmatic interest in how peole actually act, behave and assert themselves, rather than exploring any ideal of self-improvement or enlightenment.

I'm interested in finding out what you perceive about where I am coming from with this.

thanks.

As usual, Sam, brilliant definition of Mars there :-)

Bucket. Mars rules my chart. Really. Mars is in Pisces in the 10th house. In the traditional tropical system Mars in Aries in the 12th .. Spend a lot of time at the gym. Old broken down fortresses are far more intersting than modern gyms for me. personally.

Deb you must be an introvert. It is so wonderful to be alone and quiet and just recharge. Some of my friends are actually extroverts. It is such a different head.