http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e?format=rss Tribe.net. Local Connections http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#1914a8ae-9e9b-4b17-9f12-c56d4e3d227b I have just discovered Sabian symbols recently, and I've found it to have similar effect for me as well... in addition to being pretty dead-on, in a scary (but not really bad) way... do you care to share which of the Sabian symbols you relate to? Me: 29 Leo (Sun) 20 Scorpio (Moon) 27 Aries (Asc) Fri, 27 Jul 2007 05:54:57 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#1914a8ae-9e9b-4b17-9f12-c56d4e3d227b Joy 2007-07-27T05:54:57Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#fc5e9065-0edc-4a1b-8130-3d8f736d72d7 Hey Dave I looked it up and saw that the cheshta bala thing, like you said in the second email, is only about movement...so.. I don't know how I read that it was related to distance from sun at all. Must be a coincidence that the description fit. Probably really just the saturn oppose sun thing. Sorry for adding to the confusion. Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:43:04 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#fc5e9065-0edc-4a1b-8130-3d8f736d72d7 $item.owner.firstName 2007-07-26T19:43:04Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#52db0f4f-8fa8-4931-b09d-853095884c48 Maybe there is some kind of wierd mix when it is far away but retro. Some parts of saturn's lessons are easy and some are hard. Or the lessons are hard but there is some retro-inward seeking sort of different way of dealing/coping with it that sort of balances the difficulty in some wierd way allowing the person to move on while keeping some sort of distance from the lesson somehow. I don't know because what Dave described as low cheshta-bala is so right on in some ways that I have never understood before. Maybe it is just attributable to a saturn opposition, though or maybe it isn't even astrology. Its just there....staring me in the face....not going away. Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:47:43 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#52db0f4f-8fa8-4931-b09d-853095884c48 $item.owner.firstName 2007-07-26T16:47:43Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#ec7ab4ae-cefd-48f9-9677-f729b915a870 "Kind of an aside, but there is something in Vedic astrology where you can tell how confident you are in your ability to survive loss by looking at Saturn's distance from the Sun in the chart. The furthest it is from the Sun and the slower Saturn moves (retrograde being the slowest and combustion being the fastest), the more confident we are in the things that Saturn represents." So it is just a matter of speed not distance away? I was looking at the distance away as meaning low cheshta bala....like I really know hehe I just know that the things you describe fit so well. Maybe there is a different astrological explanation for why besides cheshta-bala then. From what you described low cheshta-bala to be....it feels like it fits cuz I don't grieve really...I just sublimate or get wierd side-effects. Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:31:21 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#ec7ab4ae-cefd-48f9-9677-f729b915a870 $item.owner.firstName 2007-07-26T16:31:21Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#56f024f1-306a-48f0-958d-2c8ce329cb39 Bodhi, It's natural to fear loss. High cheshta bala Saturn does not mean you don't fear loss. It means you have a high degree of confidence in your ability to survive loss. Those are two different things, and I may have worded it in a confusing way in my original post. If you don't think you are going to survive having something taking away from you, it's harder to acknowledge your feelings around it. Dave Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:50:35 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#56f024f1-306a-48f0-958d-2c8ce329cb39 $item.owner.firstName 2007-07-26T15:50:35Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#fb7d5512-d750-489c-b755-0641ea06651c To clarify in a shorter email, since there may be some confusion: Slower moving Saturn (retrograde, opposite Sun) will have high cheshta bala and indicates high confidence in your ability to survive loss. Faster moving Saturn (combust, conjunct Sun) will have low cheshta bala and indicates low confidence in your ability to survive loss. Not saying it's always accurate, but that's the technique anyway. I've used this technique with several clients and it seems to work well so far. One thing I've noticed occasionally with cheshta bala, is that a person with low cheshta bala for a planet may actually project a false confidence around that planet as a way of compensating for their insecurity. A person with a combust Mars, for example, may act tough as a way to cover up their lack of martial confidence. Dave Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:47:32 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#fb7d5512-d750-489c-b755-0641ea06651c $item.owner.firstName 2007-07-26T15:47:32Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#a986bab5-8b11-4a80-adc9-b1a753cf61a6 I thought its the opposite way!!! Sun opposed Saturn lol..... Not taking the death to a personal core... I got you from the start :P.... With the chesta-bala.... If Saturn is Retrograde then it is interalized to the core....I have a Pisces bud who has Saturn in Virgo, 1980s ones... Actually quite a few of them!!! Forgive and Forget then get Loves.... Works for diapers, why not humans lol... Morning BTW (@)S...... Allan Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:23:52 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#a986bab5-8b11-4a80-adc9-b1a753cf61a6 $item.owner.firstName 2007-07-26T14:23:52Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#2775eba9-65a6-4d60-95d5-476d3f85dad1 sooooo out of it Allan sorry....thought you were Deb reading that post of yours goodness gracious I don't think you meant anything personal either. Time for me to go to sleep and deal with the issues this thread has brought up in me geez.... with my low cheshta-bala....go sleep then sublimate in the morning :P Maybe sublimate a lil before bed too Or just deal with the fact that I have to let go of my dad maybe...hmmmmmmm that's an idea >.< Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:21:36 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#2775eba9-65a6-4d60-95d5-476d3f85dad1 $item.owner.firstName 2007-07-26T08:21:36Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#2fc56678-8561-4d67-bbca-e360b07b3019 oops....and the inadvertent mentioning of a form of spirituality... Just got caught up so much in what Dave had said ... forgot about appearances for a sec...the new idea was so exciting and so true...I forgot to keep things to myself for a sec cuz it seemed so important Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:35:06 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#2fc56678-8561-4d67-bbca-e360b07b3019 $item.owner.firstName 2007-07-26T07:35:06Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#7ffa1c09-8116-47b1-90fb-fb631d402595 I don't know if I at that moment was looking for sympathy or empathy. I think I was just taking something personally that had nothing to do with me at a moment of emotional unbalance that I failed to hide from the rest of the world. But the empathy is good Deb ;) I guess it means I am not totally insane hehe. One thing I think that this illustrates is this: Even if a person with lwo low low cheshta-bala does not seem to be grieving or feeling the loss of a person or situation... That grieving will come out in other ways like emotional instability and health problems like numbness of limbs, even hives and digestive problems. It's not like the low cheshta-bala person magically skips the grieving process...they just don't fully consciously face the loss/risk and so the process comes out in other ways and becomes a lot longer and harder to move on from (if they ever move on....) and they have to find ways to sublimate etc. to deal with it. Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:51:09 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#7ffa1c09-8116-47b1-90fb-fb631d402595 $item.owner.firstName 2007-07-26T06:51:09Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#cf8adfb9-12ec-46fb-9311-abc0199c35a6 People might have the fear of death.... but others have the fear of life... I don't think there is anyway to relate to someone completely if you never been in their shoes... You can be empathic.... though some like to use sympathy on the other hand... To me anyways, is flat-out rude!!! Pity Him Pity Him... NO NEVER lol..... Empathy involves just listening, sympathy on the other hand, involves reacting... Empathy- intellectual & emotional awareness and understanding of another person’s thoughts, feelings, and behavior even that are distressing . Sympathy- sharing another’s feelings especially in sorrow or trouble through imaginative identification with the other’s situation. The weird thing about death, is how much resentment it can bring out of someone....Some people actually get angry at people dying on them, like they planned it... Same goes if there was something unsaid or not done.... Same as a What-If..... Just eats you from inside-out. Im the same way as Erin when it comes towards death... There is always a part of that person who is trapped in my mind... The voice that sounds like it was just spoken yesterday... The smile that brings laugher. Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:14:34 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#cf8adfb9-12ec-46fb-9311-abc0199c35a6 $item.owner.firstName 2007-07-26T06:14:34Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#834bb877-38d3-49d2-be6c-b36998322812 "I think it's possible to fear loss , yet still embrace the mourning process and grieve...then move on. I don't see those two processes as mutually exclusive. If we're talking Saturn (3rd House)...I have a mutual reception with Venus (11th house), and they're trine each other. So who knows. Maybe that's my the astrological explanation. " "I don't see those two processes as mutually exclusive." Okay ... maybe you weren't saying that my way is not logically possible or doesn't make sense or that you dont' see how it can be the way I experienced it. Maybe this was just totally a statement of how things look to you... my slip in a moment of weakness....my apologies I think I was being oversensitive....I'd claim transiting moon conjunct uranus but that would just be a copout...even with the moon transiting uranus there is no reason to go take things personally like that. Thought an official apology might be good in this case... for what its worth anyway Thu, 26 Jul 2007 05:48:43 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#834bb877-38d3-49d2-be6c-b36998322812 $item.owner.firstName 2007-07-26T05:48:43Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#1a429983-2672-45f2-a77c-03187d4a6429 Hey Bo Sure I can imagine it working like that for someone...grieving....fearing the loss...moving on I see it all the time and wonder what is wrong with me. It don't work that way for everyone though I neither fear the loss nor feel the loss therefore there is no grieving...it is like I don't fully accept the death/loss. I hold onto the person spiritually and that is enough. I neither risk the broken heart nor cry at rejection because I don't risk the love. I don't accept it I just admire the person as one might admire a beautiful flower in a field that is not their own. I often say to myself "Not every beautiful flower in the field needs to be picked by me...it is enough for it to just grow and be beautiful in the field without me". I admire it, smile...I don't pick it or keep it I just move on. I don't take the risk. eh maybe it can't make sense without feeling it yourself. I guess you don't have to believe me if you don't want to ;) Thu, 26 Jul 2007 03:34:57 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#1a429983-2672-45f2-a77c-03187d4a6429 $item.owner.firstName 2007-07-26T03:34:57Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#434eb94f-5b06-4274-91a1-30c89b1935df >>>I see so many vets, they all have that look of overwhelming sorrow. If only there where away to make it all go away with astrology. >>>I was up at the hospital tonight, we have bunches of new kids, New Veterans, keep getting more and more of them. They are just kids, like your father and I once where. I've met a few vets who were able to turn that greif into a strength. All of them did things for other people through churches or activism or support work, probably like what you are doing at the hospital. None of them were "pure", all had some sort of baggage from that. All of them had different personal ways of dealing with greif. I think greif is very different if it is mixed in with horror or with seeing just what human beings are capable of. I'm not being judgemental. I've seen very intense things outside of a war situation which showed me what people are capable of. I think it's a very different kind of greif. I asked a friend of mine who had been through hell in Columbia how he dealt with it. He said "You always have to see things with both eyes" meaning you always have to see both the good and the bad in everything, always. And to force yourself to see children smiling, people doing good things for each other etc. Very simple advice but I think every one of the vets I know who deal with it well do that. I noticed people from Guatemala seem to be able to deal with it very well in general. Especially compared to people in the US. I understand there is a philosophy in that culture that it is a person's life duty or responsibility to make other people feel happy. That philosophy seems to be taken VERY seriously. People laugh a lot, even people who have been through the things we've read about...**Eventually ** they have the strength to make other people laugh. The people who don't end up being very scarey... Thu, 26 Jul 2007 03:34:06 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#434eb94f-5b06-4274-91a1-30c89b1935df bluehorses 2007-07-26T03:34:06Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#efacc78b-696f-48e3-a754-3585f95c8986 Saturn in Taurus - Venus in Capricorn Although I appear to be a late bloomer, I really was born grown. In early life I achieved a maturity and sense of ethics that directed my path in such a way that I seldom exhibited the traits of adolescence and young adulthood generally connected with “being a kid.” I am often said to be aloof, even unapproachable, because of my natural resistance to new situations; however, when I become comfortable people learn that I am warm, dependable, consciences and affable. I do not count my wealth as much in tangible objects as in maturity, experience and successes, both personal and business. The one to whom I give my love must be honest, steadfast and moral matching my own ideals. To find such a one I look past the packaging to the inner person and that takes a while; however, when I find the right one we are joined forever. I may love last but I love only the best. Notables: Father of Microbiology Louis Pasteur, b. 12-27-1822; Author/Playwright Virginia Woolf, b. 01-25-1882; Hungarian Author Alexander Petöfi, b. 11-01-1823. Thu, 26 Jul 2007 03:30:15 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#efacc78b-696f-48e3-a754-3585f95c8986 $item.owner.firstName 2007-07-26T03:30:15Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#6497c1bd-a180-4047-8bdb-8582ed36cf81 I think it's possible to fear loss , yet still embrace the mourning process and grieve...then move on. I don't see those two processes as mutually exclusive. If we're talking Saturn (3rd House)...I have a mutual reception with Venus (11th house), and they're trine each other. So who knows. Maybe that's my the astrological explanation. Peace, Bo Thu, 26 Jul 2007 03:21:04 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#6497c1bd-a180-4047-8bdb-8582ed36cf81 $item.owner.firstName 2007-07-26T03:21:04Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#2c916dda-2f1b-4543-9dad-0e450b57b1e5 Hi Dave If I may indulge saying something unbidden about myself here perfecto! I have saturn oppose sun I never cry at funerals...I never really let go...I hold onto some part of them through my neptune instead Its like they didn't really die for me... Right on all the way with this cheshta bala theory and me. I bet it has a lot to do with why I can't really fall in love ... and why I find it so hard to even let myself like someone else yep low cheshta bala I'll take my penance for speaking out loud about myself on this one becuase it is so so right on Thu, 26 Jul 2007 03:08:52 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#2c916dda-2f1b-4543-9dad-0e450b57b1e5 $item.owner.firstName 2007-07-26T03:08:52Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#99bc580c-6ea6-4ed9-bb8c-3a7aa86f968e Its weird how they don't tell you about the injury/amputee rates..... The death toll, no problems!!! These people are going to have to live with this for along while.... I wonder how the government and these hospitals are even going to be able to fund it all. My dad got over it by over-educating himself to no ends.... Still in school... from that moment on.... Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:17:55 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#99bc580c-6ea6-4ed9-bb8c-3a7aa86f968e $item.owner.firstName 2007-07-26T02:17:55Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#ee066e5c-e029-4940-b69b-344ef9591c31 "My dad is a Hamburger Hill Survivor himself.... " Tell your father "welcome home and thank him for his service". My dad sent a case of "bubble Gum" to a friend on that hill, he was Army in WW II I was on (Navy Corpsmen) hills 8861-8862-8863 for TET... taking wounded out in Ch-47's. I can't let myself think about my friends who died there. I'm not sure if any house or placement is responsible for that. But I control some sorrow by reading Sabian Symbols. I see so many vets, they all have that look of overwhelming sorrow. If only there where away to make it all go away with astrology. I was up at the hospital tonight, we have bunches of new kids, New Veterans, keep getting more and more of them. They are just kids, like your father and I once where. thanks for understanding Allen, Daniel Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:06:47 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#ee066e5c-e029-4940-b69b-344ef9591c31 $item.owner.firstName 2007-07-26T02:06:47Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#ad892097-db7c-4148-afdd-018cf3722796 My dad is a Hamburger Hill Survivor himself.... So I can kind of see but can't totally relate... That is an issue in itself!! Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:48:29 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#ad892097-db7c-4148-afdd-018cf3722796 $item.owner.firstName 2007-07-26T01:48:29Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#b0c1f40b-555f-4b26-929e-a107bfa65e2c Kind of an aside, but there is something in Vedic astrology where you can tell how confident you are in your ability to survive loss by looking at Saturn's distance from the Sun in the chart. The furthest it is from the Sun and the slower Saturn moves (retrograde being the slowest and combustion being the fastest), the more confident we are in the things that Saturn represents. Since Saturn represents loss, a more confident Saturn will help us to deal with loss better. This strength of Saturn is called cheshta bala. A person with low cheshta bala Saturn will fear loss. They will have harder time enjoying the things that they care about, because they are always a little afraid that it's going to be taken away from them. And they may avoid the grieving process because they aren't certain they will come out the other side. A person with high cheshta bala Saturn will know that no matter what gets taken away, they will survive and they will be alright. It's much easier for a cheshta bala Saturn person to grieve. They embrace their feelings of sadness, mourn the loss, and eventually move on. Dave Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:46:58 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#b0c1f40b-555f-4b26-929e-a107bfa65e2c $item.owner.firstName 2007-07-26T01:46:58Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#2bcd0902-90a8-4f86-9d6f-62b36aa66c59 Sun aries, moon sag. 10th house. Moon trine pluto, conjunct jupiter and square mercury. Depends on how close I am to that person or animal. Took me a long time to get over my favorite cat, no time at all for another one. With very close friends and violent or tragic deaths that I've seen happen I greive hard and long. I go into a trance like state for a while where it feels like I'm howling compulsively inside, then I go DO something to get some of that out of my system so I can at least function, then I'm sad about it for a very long time. I think pluto doesn't make it easy... Haven't found any shortcuts to getting over grief sooner. But when it eventually subsides it's a pleasant feeling to think about all you've done and experienced with that person or animal. I hope you can get to that point with thinking about your horse sooner than later. Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:45:17 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#2bcd0902-90a8-4f86-9d6f-62b36aa66c59 bluehorses 2007-07-26T01:45:17Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#6d3a58a3-5d13-45c7-93f3-de4c8b8e5322 RE Saturn as an indicator of how a person responds in front of people to grief,... My Saturn rules my Capricorn ascendant and is in Aquarius in the 1st house, but trine my 8th house sun. I cry in front of people if I'm sincerely upset, though I may try to hide my face or leave the room to try to gain composure. However, I don't care that much about what they think. I just don't like to "lose it" in front of people and appear weak. But in an appropriate moment, such as a funeral, it doesn't bother me that much to show grief. I feel natural and human. Maybe if Saturn weren't in a positive aspect to my sun it would play out differently. Good theory. Perhaps an inhibiting aspect like a square, opposition, or conjunction to the moon would come into play as repressive. Also, Saturn in the 8th or 4th might be tell-tale of repressive emotions or a "stoic" front in the face of death, as could Saturn in Scorpio, Taurus, Cancer, or the 4th house. Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:41:15 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#6d3a58a3-5d13-45c7-93f3-de4c8b8e5322 deb 2007-07-26T01:41:15Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#48d8c45d-930a-49f3-972f-4a56471f5ac4 Hummmm... I am always having people die around me.... I guess that we are supposed to cry for others when they are gone, it is only being greatful... and hopeful for life.... Respecting the Life.... Look at all the people who cry at flags when they hear the national athem....Patriotism and sorts.... Saturn rules over the physical death.... Not Pluto.... Pluto just wishes it had a taste of death, it is more obessed.... Now the 8th house cusp, that is a different story!!! I could see how the 8th house is how we deal with seperation of loss.... but also building on a base foundation. Im not going to go into Signs though... There are so many signs that have different faces of deaths and Births..... Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:38:42 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#48d8c45d-930a-49f3-972f-4a56471f5ac4 $item.owner.firstName 2007-07-26T01:38:42Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#40738d56-10d8-434c-a0c3-1f16a577102d I wonder if it is the sun sign that affects a person's reaction to death and loss most... I wonder if it might be something else. Like maybe the 8th house (death and other people's stuff and intimacy and sex) could give insight on how a person reacts to these things/experiences these things (thanks FJ) or....the moon for emotions or the sign taurus for "things a person is used to having"-so that when they lose it that loss is very disruptive. I also wonder if some planets like possibly neptune comes to mind, might in some way help a person cope with that kind of loss...maybe by allowing them to feel connected to them in some way (or not) "across the divide". I bet a person's reaction to it in front of others could be related to saturn...(for repression and fear and maturity and things like that). Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:20:31 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#40738d56-10d8-434c-a0c3-1f16a577102d $item.owner.firstName 2007-07-26T01:20:31Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#52d2bb2b-4a3f-4699-b927-4a5cee12fe73 Well, Daniel, I can't speak for "all Virgo's," but I can tell you how I have dealt with death of a friend, loved one, or beloved pet, emotional loss such as a painful break-up, and separation from those I love by a distant move,.... I cry and cry and cry some more! I am extremely sensitive to loss and have no ability to hide my tears or turn them off. I can literally "feel" them leaving me and the bonds holding us slipping away when someone dies, or a pet dies. In the case of a distant move from close friends or family, I can "feel" the impact of the separation on the emotional level. It is as if my mind "fast-forwards" to the future emotional state without them there and I grieve the loss. Virgo sun in the 8th trine Capricorn ascendant, sextile moon in Cancer Cancer moon conj Mars in Cancer in the 6th, (moon conj 7th from the 6th) Venus conj Neptune in the 9th Mercury in Libra in the 9th sq moon and Mars in Cancer Jupiter in Pisces in the 1st I have a natural sense about how death is the normal end to life. I don't hold on or resist it. I accept it and grieve, no holds barred. It is actually a very cleansing, if not exhausting process to grieve for me. I'm not ashamed of my emotional expression, but do feel confused and concerned for others who don't even shed a tear when something as devasting as a death occurs to them. I worry about their emotional health and also their physical health that must be strained at all of the repression and displaced emotional energy. But I also realize that we are all different, so I just give them a big hug in silence and let them be where they are and deal with things in their own time and way. When I had to put my beloved cat to sleep I was inconsolable. It didn't help that Princess Diana died that same night, and a good friend died of cancer a couple of days later. I cried for the entire weekend when Johnny Cash died because I could feel the loss of his spirit and influence in the world. I still shed a tear when I hear his version of Hurt on the radio. My grandma is suffering from Alzheimer's in a nursing home and I cry every time I see her because it is as if she has already "died" and left us. But regarding sun signs and grieving, my mom is also a Virgo with a Taurus moon and I've only seen her cry once. Hmmm,... I guess sun signs are all different in spite of our similarities in other ways due to the rest of the planet's influence. She also has Mercury in Libra, Mars in Virgo, Venus in Leo, Jupiter in Cancer, and Libra rising, sun in the 11th house. I think my extremely emotional nature is due to both an abundance of planets in water signs, and my sun in the 8th house. Wed, 25 Jul 2007 23:25:16 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#52d2bb2b-4a3f-4699-b927-4a5cee12fe73 deb 2007-07-25T23:25:16Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#4bddbde3-fcc9-438a-b858-46ee9ba10726 The thought of anyone I'm close to dying makes me feel panicked and sick. The loss of someone I care about hits me very hard, but I tend to grieve privately. When my dad died a few years back, I kind of became a recluse, dropped 20 pounds without realizing it, felt the frequent urge to cry in public or in the presence of others but almost always repressed it and pretended I was fine, and tried to force myself into a state of emotional neutrality through distracting myself with pleasant things rather than dealing with what had happened. I talked to my family some about it, and that was actually very useful, though hard for me to do. I have a lot of difficulty crying in front of others - I can sometimes talk about something upsetting in my life, but tend to do it in an emotionally-distanced way, even if that is very much unlike what I feel. 12th House Taurus Sun, 6th House Scorpio Moon, Gemini Ascendant, by the way. Wed, 25 Jul 2007 22:22:26 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#4bddbde3-fcc9-438a-b858-46ee9ba10726 Rothilda T. 2007-07-25T22:22:26Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#9f0b8771-c46c-40d7-b20e-e909737bd6a6 First off, my condolences to you Daniel for your loss. I know what it's like to lose a beloved animal. I lost my cat some years ago who I practically grew up with and raised, and I grieved for a very long time. I never thought how about how I handled death much, but I suppose as an Aries with a Capricorn moon, I have yet to really become emotional over the loss of anyone. For some reason, I've not felt a need to grieve over anyone that died, but perhaps it also has to do with the fact that I've not experienced much in the way of death and loss other than my cat, and the people who passed, I wasn't close to begin with. I think it really depends on the situation and the circumstances though. Like, I think the only person I would really ever grieve over or feel emotional about losing is my mother. That's the only person I think could get me to feel upset. After some time, I'd try to look at her passing in a spiritual manner to begin healing. Otherwise, I'm more attached to animals and feel much more emotion towards them than I do people. Also, depending upon the circumstances of the death might also influence how I feel such as if the person was passing just on natural aging and circumstances, then I look at it being their time. If someone passed away in a more horrid way like being killed or tortured or something, I think I'd feel more compassion. Wed, 25 Jul 2007 21:34:45 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#9f0b8771-c46c-40d7-b20e-e909737bd6a6 $item.owner.firstName 2007-07-25T21:34:45Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#e9d8d162-5af2-451d-86a1-fb1f50ca6c2a How do different signs deal with loss, grief: Each person has a very different way of dealing with grief, the loss of love or a loved one. Some times this can be a person, a pet or even the passing of a favorite movie star. I am a cap sun; But in deal with grief, I don't do well. At times I bury it, other times I do not even notice how it effects me. four years ago I was riding my horse "JET" he fell over dead without any warning while I was riding him. It was the biggest loss I have ever felt, two days later I bought "Patrick". I most likely would not have bought an other horse that fast; but Patrick needed to be rescued or he would have gone to Morocco to do a movie, Hidalgo which he would not have returned from, I could not let that happen, Patrick and Jet worked together in films and on the ranch so I could not let one of Jets buddies risk death. With people, I don't let it get to me at all, I think after coming home from Vietnam, I never cried for anyone's death. My Aunt who helped raise me, or the Uncle I loved so much died and I never shed one tear. When my father died it was, oh well. So in a way I think I'm numb to death; I had to be to come home alive. Yet when a love or lover leaves, it used to hurt so much, now I'm on a new med, and that "don't" even get to me anymore. So how do signs of the Zodiac deal with loss and grief? I found this links covering this issue I hope you all find them helpful. Astrology and Grief; http://theastrologicalguild.co.uk/articles/Gunzburg_Grief.pdf Love, Dad - Bereavement, Grief, and Healing After A Significant Death http://www.aquariuspapers.com/astrology/2006/01/bereavement_gri.html Please keep your posts respectful of this issue for the sake of others, so lets pass on the you-tube links to music that shows how "goth" you are, (you know who I am talking to). Peace and Love "ONLY" on this thread, Daniel Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:56:11 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/86020d22-9b95-4d42-a6f7-cffda4030d7e#e9d8d162-5af2-451d-86a1-fb1f50ca6c2a $item.owner.firstName 2007-07-25T19:56:11Z