Tribe.net. Local Connections katrina http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#e03c0e03-3039-4bed-895c-77e471140a9f 2009-07-05T20:42:38Z 2009-07-05T20:42:38Z

Mantis ~ It seems like you're ready to reinvent yourself and create some new dreams (and good timing with Saturn in your 1st House)

katrina 2009-07-05T20:42:38Z MantisReligiosa http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#4b32f16e-d485-4db0-98ae-79de47ccdc31 2009-07-05T20:32:59Z 2009-07-05T20:32:59Z

Saturn is all over me, and I hate it. the weird thing is..I'm starting to act/think/sound like my cap father. To speak the truth, I'm no longer interested in furthering my "research" in the realm of astrology. I've never felt a stronger need to get concrete proof in my entire life..it's gotta be Saturn, right? Doesn't mean I know what to do, but I'm starting to finally get a sense of what I "have to" do...CRAP. I'm struggling between burrying my dreams, and my old self, and pushing shit further through the fan, in typical nataal Moon-Mars-Jupiter in the 9th, transitting Jupiter-Neptune in the 6th fashion, 'ya know?

MantisReligiosa 2009-07-05T20:32:59Z Paul http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#a034263e-79aa-428c-8558-9bd8e4565c76 2009-07-02T15:50:43Z 2009-07-02T15:50:43Z

Jenny Interesting chart! Your Saturn seems quite important to me as your chart is particularly watery and you lack planets in Earth generally (and to a lesser extent air) which makes me think that Saturn is the most 'grounding' planet you have and unfortunately it is in Pisces which isn't the most stable of places. This general lack of earth would sugges to me that either you are very undisciplined and generally not earthy or that you overcompensate (and this is the more common) and become VERY earthy. So ultra disciplined etc etc. You also have Mars-Saturn square which reinforces this for me. Do you do endurance training or exercise or work in particularly Saturnian jobs like for the governement? I could imainge you being a strong swimmer or almost a marathon runner if you put your mind to it also extreme sports might be of interest.

Paul 2009-07-02T15:50:43Z Jenny http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#4f3aa876-2628-4820-b169-da15195477bc 2009-07-02T15:39:11Z 2009-07-02T15:39:11Z

My chart is in Photos but : http://people.tribe.net/a26b956e-d548-462d-8548-20cde0135ca6/photos/dc6b4e92-e62b-4bad-828f-cfd67d62a1ff in case. I post this here becuase Saturn mucks around my chart and ay home I am drenched in it with my SO= Cap/Cap ASC/Cap Venus with saturn in Pisces, in II, opposing Uranus, Trine Neptune. Oppose Pluto. Conjoins his ASC. squares his mercury. And my Saturn in X, squared to my Mars, squared to my Venus and trine to my Merc. I wont even go to the houses that pass thru Satrun ruled. So here is the answers to our tragic lives, difficult rise and reuniting I am sure, just not the hows

Jenny 2009-07-02T15:39:11Z b http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#e59119e6-7a23-429f-8f19-7cf405232231 2009-07-02T07:56:28Z 2009-07-02T07:56:28Z

Haha, I almost wrote that I thought that could be a good placement for a judge... that's what I get for second guessing. I found this very helpful in interpreting career aspects: http://en.allexperts.com/q/Astrology-2205/Career-Astrology.htm

b 2009-07-02T07:56:28Z maria http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#6d8dc6db-5d51-491c-bdfe-7207c3657c0f 2009-07-02T05:30:56Z 2009-07-02T05:30:56Z

i am actually in the legal field. attorney at law. but i would like to become judge in the future. on questions concerning professional and career matter what other aspects of the chart should we examine. by the way i ve upload my chart in pics

maria 2009-07-02T05:30:56Z b http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#0c4abcd2-402f-429e-8d06-1118628a36ba 2009-07-02T04:28:41Z 2009-07-02T04:28:41Z

that sounds like a good guess... libra is the scales and 8th house is law. Saturn/Jupiter to me also sounds like your blessings come with price tags.

b 2009-07-02T04:28:41Z maria http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#358679e6-edbd-4521-bf38-2c5373a25d99 2009-07-02T04:19:41Z 2009-07-02T04:19:41Z

my ascendant is capricorn, so as saturn is the ruler of this sign i think plays an important role in my chart. my saturn is in libra in the 8th house. a saturn jupiter conjunction could signify maybe a career in the legal field?

maria 2009-07-02T04:19:41Z b http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#e6b1ea77-8fa1-4e1e-b81e-1540201bfea2 2009-07-02T04:17:04Z 2009-07-02T04:17:04Z

So... checking Saturn aspects... anyone else have these? Saturn opposition Ascendant: Fear of how I appear to others, viewing relationships as "hard work" (conjunct DC), trouble with authority figures as a child. Saturn square Venus: Fear of showing affection/love, fear of accepting love, critical about what I enjoy (virgo venus) Saturn trine Sun: I am the most self-assured when I am doing something productive. I am not afraid to face my fears. This aspect is a little boggling to me, though. Saturn trine Mercury: My thinking can become very methodical (Merc in 3rd house). Philosophical debates can both energize me and disgust me (Saturn in Sag too). I can be very direct in how I speak.

b 2009-07-02T04:17:04Z Natesa http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#8f36500d-2203-4194-b22b-f39a5e7b073d 2009-06-30T14:19:42Z 2009-06-30T14:19:42Z

http://www.orchisvzw.be/images/kruiwagen.gif

Natesa 2009-06-30T14:19:42Z Isaac http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#528be924-031e-491a-bd1f-f05c9256f544 2009-06-29T22:55:55Z 2009-06-29T22:55:55Z

Sherpa, Yes! <<This is all about frustration of the need for love>> I have always been a romantic idiot!! :D Looking to a partner to complete me or make me happy is a them I have lived over and over again in past intimate relationships. These themes are complicated or made more intense by the 5th house Saturn in cancer trine to the Venus, Sun, Moon conjunction in Scorpio 9th h. I think the trine's intensify my guarded nature and fear of rejection while accentuating the desire/need for deep, intense, penetrating relationships. I think my Natal saturn square chiron in Aries 2nd house, ties issues of self worth, insecurity, and $$ into the mix.... Lucky for me, Transiting Neptune and Chiron in my 1st house squaring Natal 9th H. Venus in Scorpio are stirring up lots of buried stuff, bring it to the surface, facilitating experiences that accentuate my dysfunctional programing. It's not all the fun, but intensely re-living some of my deepest insecurities has been very valuable in shining a light on my fears. I can see how taking responsibility for my own happiness will improve many areas of my life. It so simple, so basic.... Thank you!

Isaac 2009-06-29T22:55:55Z sherpa http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#ffea3257-603b-4178-898c-7c49699228ab 2009-06-29T21:04:10Z 2009-06-29T21:04:10Z

Isaac <<Did you chose preforming arts as the vehicle to face your social fears because you felt pulled in that direction or simply to face the fear? >> I did it at first to face the fears and to get laid. I was a ridiculously shy high school outcast when I chose Drama class instead of Print Shop or whatever. The rest is, as they say, his story. <<Do you have any thoughts on integrating a Retrograde Saturn in Cancer in the 5th house? >> This is all about frustration of the need for love. Actor Kyle McLachlan (Agent Cooper of the Twin Peaks series) has 5th House Saturn in Scorpio. When I read for him some years ago, I told him that his early unmet needs for love were working themselves out through his lifeong artistic discipline. Here, the products of his creative processes would attract the adoration of others and through that he could meet his childhood needs for love. Saturn in Cancer is similar but different. The lingering fear of rejection can be strong here if you still believe that anything or anybody else is responsible for your happiness. 5th House Saturn in Cancer says you are solely responsible for your happiness. When you begin defining what happiness means to you and then the audacity, or ambition, for going after that, you'll discover the rewards Saturn in Cancer holds for you. Like the creation of any masterpiece, it's a life's work getting there.

sherpa 2009-06-29T21:04:10Z Isaac http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#5901d864-f9fd-4575-adf9-940a2af09198 2009-06-29T20:47:53Z 2009-06-29T20:47:53Z

<<I eventually faced my fears of people and crowds by mustering up the commitment for going into the performing arts. I chose to commit to the very thing I was afraid of. This helped me overcome my fears and gave me the confidence to work with groups as a vehicle to realize my ambitions and dreams as a playwright and later, as a filmmaker.>> Sherpa, Did you chose preforming arts as the vehicle to face your social fears because you felt pulled in that direction or simply to face the fear? I am asking because of my fears and/or restraint related to singing and dancing. I do not feel a strong pull toward theater, "traditional" preforming arts, or acting, but I do have exabitionist tendancies under all the layers of restraint. In my late teens and early 20's I had aspirations to Join the Jim Rose Cirucse Side show... I took great pleasure in shocking people by hanging heavy objects from my various body piercings....I feel like I have outgrown that particular form of performance, but the performer still lurks below the surface. I don't really know what kind of venue is right for me in facing my fears about singing and dancing.... I think the root fear of letting loose is related to issues of security/insecurity..... I need to feel very safe to let my guard down.... I think I am experiencing/having an awareness of my Saturn restraint more strongly at the moment because Neptune and Chiron are transiting my Aquarius 1st house. Both planets have been squaring my Venus, Sun Moon conjunction in Scorpio 9th H. It started with my moon a few years ago, then my sun, and both chiron and neptune are currently squaring my Venus in scorpio, 9th house. These transits are bring deeply buried dysfunctions to the surface, were I can see them, feel them, re-live them....and hopefully dissolve them when it's all over.... I know it's not very Basic.... Do you have any thoughts on integrating a Retrograde Saturn in Cancer in the 5th house?

Isaac 2009-06-29T20:47:53Z $item.owner.firstName http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#d08bf45f-f24b-4275-93e5-9db64f4c38b3 2009-06-29T17:27:55Z 2009-06-29T17:27:55Z

Saturn conjunct North Node and apex in t-square to Neptune/AC and mars/DC. "You can reach for it but never fully embrace it. But reach you must since those chalenges can evolve you. " Sherpa you Guru... so eloquent! Can't even find the words to begin...

$item.owner.firstName 2009-06-29T17:27:55Z Paul http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#63b88483-2afc-4911-9698-9dbcbddeec59 2009-06-29T15:57:22Z 2009-06-29T15:57:22Z

"Throughout vedic literature "the notion of psychological understanding of oneself above all else" is stressed, which includes understanding ourself as embodiments of the universe / through astrology. " Sadasiva, this is very true. When I was younger I can recall my parents having many pooja's done by respected pundits and one thing they always mentioned as a part of the pooja was to go deeper within the self to understand and accept. PKG

Paul 2009-06-29T15:57:22Z $item.owner.firstName http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#65b4c3be-0acc-46aa-8516-881e6b89bdeb 2009-06-29T15:50:43Z 2009-06-29T15:50:43Z

~

$item.owner.firstName 2009-06-29T15:50:43Z Dragon-of-Q http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#f0f920ab-a2c1-4e35-bd68-c4791fbe7769 2009-06-28T21:48:25Z 2009-06-28T21:48:25Z

~

Dragon-of-Q 2009-06-28T21:48:25Z Dragon-of-Q http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#dc486cdd-d4cf-4d78-ad79-51eec65c2c88 2009-06-28T01:43:20Z 2009-06-28T01:43:20Z

~~I think Saturn is one of the most important planets. By defining structure~~ I agree. Take the outer 3 planets and the Environmental theme. And all the inner planets with out Saturn and Jupiter the slower of the inners. Jupiter about 12 years to cycle is the building one, And Saturn about 29 years to cycle, the Structure one, Saturn I think plays in both fields, of the inner personal planets, and outer Environmental planets. Time the inevitable, that Saturn speaks of, is the building of each moment, step by step, building a structure of..... what ever, And as time passes you get results, good and bad and everything in between. Time by definition is an environmental structure, lending to the outer planets theme. Our structures are in the realm of inner and personal stuff. The Results are sorta in between..

Dragon-of-Q 2009-06-28T01:43:20Z Isaac http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#c6e98dac-a60d-4df4-b503-1418426d6d5f 2009-06-27T21:32:47Z 2009-06-27T21:32:47Z

I have a retrograde Saturn in cancer 5th house. This is probably the most un-integrated energy in my chart. One of my greatest fears, involves singing, and dancing, and being silly.... I experience Saturn most strongly as an energy of restraint, composure, a deep need for emotional security. I also have a fear or aversion to committing my time and energy to all kinds of things. Mostly relating to $$ which is tied in with my chiron in aries 2nd house..... I can be overly rigid when it comes to having all the pieces in place before I take action. I am most aware of my Saturn energy when I become immobilized, stuck, and depressed....... I have had many cycles of this over the years. This Saturn energy interacts with many planetary forces in my chart, creating trines to my venus, sun, moon conjunction in scorpio 9th h, Saturn squares chiron in aries 2nd h, and Saturn quncuxes ascendant in aquarius. I would say this restraint and experience of immobility blend with the aspected planetary forces, brining a sence of caution and restraint to romance, self expression, an more..... .. I don't understand the fear of singing and dancing and being silly, It does feel foreign and almost unnatural for me to raise my voice and sing, or letting my body flow with the music. It's almost like I am surrounded by a force field that keeps my body and vocal cords rigid.... There are positive aspects to my Saturn placement. I think it enhances my creative abilities by facilitating a intuitive understanding of physical or material structure. It aids in discernment when not taken to the extreme, and also enhance my scorpio propensity for loyalty. I think it also enhances energies in my chart that drive me towards knowing and understanding myself.

Isaac 2009-06-27T21:32:47Z $item.owner.firstName http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#30479bb0-9b46-4285-a754-ad3e2711f7a9 2009-06-27T19:22:43Z 2009-06-27T19:22:43Z

>>> I think saturn is one of the most important planets. By defining structure it allows us to actually do things. Without it we would still have the impulse to do things (mars) but not the vehicle to allow it. Saturn is all about reality, it is about making things matter, in both senses of the word! >>> This is very interesting ... I think mars without saturn might still do things but they might work against their own ends and have trouble taking steps forward (turning this way and that without any sort of plan or coordination) and progress would likely be slow - or perhaps even backpedaling in nature. Another possibility would be a drive towards one thing in an unbalanced way that comes at the expense of all else (or risks all else). With mars opposite saturn in my chart - this balance has been some work to keep - and very important. I can get overly focused or driven towards something in a way that is self-defeating - on the other hand I can edit and correct and second-guess my own steps to death effectively resulting in a stand still. But for the most part I agree. I guess you just put it in a more abbreviated and summarized way sort of.

$item.owner.firstName 2009-06-27T19:22:43Z Alex http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#38c765f5-3e29-4f92-a8b8-e78f45e1dfec 2009-06-27T18:42:18Z 2009-06-27T18:42:18Z

>> My Saturn is in Gemini in my second house.. square Venus and Sun (both in Pisces). << Mine is similar. Saturn in Sagittarius in the 2nd house square Venus in Pisces.

Alex 2009-06-27T18:42:18Z Unsubconscious http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#15623dd6-1051-42ab-a76e-066361a76cc9 2009-06-27T18:11:26Z 2009-06-27T18:11:26Z

My saturn is in the 1st house in it's own sign. The sign of saturn is capricorn. Saturn is said to rule the teeth and the bones. I have Very Bad Teeth. I was also born with a twisted spine. I have back pains nearly all the time. I am so used to have this pain that I hardly notice it anymore. I suppose I have a very bad saturn. Otherwise I guess I should have had beautiful teeth and no spine problems. Others say bad teeth has to do with a lack of psychological agression. Animals show their teeth when they want to scare you off. I wonder Would a lack of agression indicate a good mars or a bad mars?

Unsubconscious 2009-06-27T18:11:26Z amiablehermit http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#1ff2f115-1e3e-4271-953a-4b068df8cef6 2009-06-27T13:17:00Z 2009-06-27T13:17:00Z

I see. As the crafter of form, Saturn can be regarded as that which shapes whatever is brought to it into a functional coherence. That is any type of energy at all, really. The words we often use in connection with it ~ discipline, restriction, structure, and the like ~ reflect the crafting and directing of energies. Taken in and of itself, it has more to do with application and know-how than with anything else. The acquisition of skill also falls into its purview. Conforming to patterns for a purpose, too. It is perhaps the most purposive of planets in that sense, which is not to say that it is the sole vehicle of purpose. But Saturn with no purpose would simply be like stone ~ an inert lump of stasis.

amiablehermit 2009-06-27T13:17:00Z katrina http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#94b22292-c65a-4bc4-b469-612b1031c24e 2009-06-27T08:30:25Z 2009-06-27T08:30:25Z

actually, you are the superficial idiot for calling me names here without any reason.

katrina 2009-06-27T08:30:25Z amiablehermit http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#45476fbb-0dad-45c8-a46e-0599678cd044 2009-06-27T08:20:08Z 2009-06-27T08:20:08Z

Hardly.

amiablehermit 2009-06-27T08:20:08Z katrina http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#6ee24c43-b217-49ab-b770-a4923241116f 2009-06-27T08:08:44Z 2009-06-27T08:08:44Z

"But as a superficial idiot, I don't expect you to understand that. " why the hostility ? maybe you confuse me with someone else.

katrina 2009-06-27T08:08:44Z Paul http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#f8fad875-2ab1-42e7-8b4d-81179ef838f6 2009-06-27T08:02:47Z 2009-06-27T08:02:47Z

Thank you sada!

Paul 2009-06-27T08:02:47Z Paul http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#8137e5e2-3e24-4e01-8e11-f79f6208a6d9 2009-06-27T08:01:29Z 2009-06-27T08:01:29Z

I consider this to be my first post I think saturn is one of the most important planets. By defining structure it allows us to actually do things. Without it we would still have the impulse to do things (mars) but not the vehicle to allow it. Saturn is all about reality, it is about making things matter, in both senses of the word! It has been stated before that in the qbl Saturn relates to binah whose function is to temper non-physical energy into something materially useful. If mars is the fuel then Saturn is the engine which makes the fuel useful.

Paul 2009-06-27T08:01:29Z Sadasiva http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#a624a9d8-6bb9-45eb-8207-d335c7e1f64a 2009-06-27T07:53:29Z 2009-06-27T07:51:35Z

Hi Paul, The Vedic texts do a lot more than "support the use of mantras to nullify saturns affects ". All of the vedic Sciences are to bring us into harmony with the planets - not "nullify their effects." Although the brhamanical caste used that language to communicate with the masses and convey certain qualities of the planets. Throughout vedic literature "the notion of psychological understanding of oneself above all else" is stressed, which includes understanding ourself as embodiments of the universe / through astrology. "What would be your Vedic understanding of my Saturn position in the first house square the moon? " Saturn in the first house squaring the moon is a universal placement. Any astrologer (regardless of system) who has studied should say almost the same thing about this. I'll say this though,.. get used to solitude and don't worry that you are going to make a mistake or look foolish. It prevents you from acting with spontaneity.

Sadasiva 2009-06-27T07:51:35Z amiablehermit http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#1aff50ef-b44e-450f-b822-fcd898fe0af4 2009-06-27T07:51:47Z 2009-06-27T07:51:47Z

<"When it stops your from climbing the mountain it's Not a good thing But when it keeps you from falling off the mountain it''s a good thing. " Nice. > This is your first post. Where do you mention Mars? And why would you mention Mars on a Basic thread about Saturn anyway?

amiablehermit 2009-06-27T07:51:47Z Paul http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#23b7d0d3-229c-497b-9319-73497de169aa 2009-06-27T07:43:29Z 2009-06-27T07:43:29Z

Amiable Reread my first post I mentioned mars straight away! My thoughts on Saturn are that we can integrate it well regardless of aspect or house position. The more contacts it makes the more chances it gives us to make things real! In my Saturn mars analogy you might think that aspects between them would show Saturn limiting the effects of mars, but when used well it does the opposite, as in the case of the likes of Venus Williams!

Paul 2009-06-27T07:43:29Z amiablehermit http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#41635b59-8caa-4581-ac08-f983336f35f6 2009-06-27T07:36:57Z 2009-06-27T07:36:57Z

Then you have confused me.

amiablehermit 2009-06-27T07:36:57Z Paul http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#15163ba6-aeb8-4696-b268-41fc459b0d8e 2009-06-27T07:31:52Z 2009-06-27T07:31:52Z

" On the one hand you say Saturn can be regarded alone, but then you bring up an aspect with Mars." I don't believe I've ever said to read it alone, certainly if I've implied that I haven't meant it!

Paul 2009-06-27T07:31:52Z Paul http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#54842b30-1443-4271-875b-7be0f7da1a6d 2009-06-27T07:29:42Z 2009-06-27T07:29:42Z

I am not suggesting taking it individually, I am just saying that regardless of aspect it is what we make of it that counts! We are not slaves to Saturn except where we let ourselves be.

Paul 2009-06-27T07:29:42Z amiablehermit http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#f429464a-d40b-43ef-8a9e-b2e265f33a81 2009-06-27T07:27:53Z 2009-06-27T07:27:53Z

You are contradicting yourself, Paul. On the one hand you say Saturn can be regarded alone, but then you bring up an aspect with Mars.

amiablehermit 2009-06-27T07:27:53Z Paul http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#b79b62ce-7ff1-47bf-aef3-db5549077972 2009-06-27T07:27:42Z 2009-06-27T07:27:42Z

Sada allow me to clarify then! She was the first or at least best known western astrologer to do so! Also her approach is considerably different. The Vedic texts support the use of mantras to nullify saturns affects wheras she supports the notion of psychological understanding of oneself above all else. What would be your Vedic understanding of my Saturn position in the first house square the moon?

Paul 2009-06-27T07:27:42Z amiablehermit http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#a24bd3cf-6c0e-4ee0-b519-78584414d2dd 2009-06-27T07:23:35Z 2009-06-27T07:20:56Z

Well, I disagree. When we take it independently of anything in a person's chart, we get asshole remarks like the one above. And crap like that from Joakim as well. Basics are great, but not so great.

amiablehermit 2009-06-27T07:20:56Z Sadasiva http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#9b77b1ea-0280-4741-81fb-ef8bd520072b 2009-06-27T07:18:50Z 2009-06-27T07:18:32Z

"I couldn't agree more! It's hardly worth mentioning but liz greene's book on Saturn is probably the first time an astrologer made this planet less doom and gloom!" With all due respect to y'all and Liz Greene, i think not. For instance, in Vedic literature there is a text called "The Shani Mahatmyam" (the Greatness of Saturn). It is from the BC era. The planets are prominent in all Indian spiritual scripture. All of this is a modern Western astrology perspective. The great astrology masters who brought the science to life - those Classical western astrologers and Vedic astrologers do not simplistically portray the planets that way. Scientific astrologers know what "malefic" means in its proper context. Their minds are capable of juggling these concepts without getting lost.

Sadasiva 2009-06-27T07:18:32Z Paul http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#a363ef4c-7294-4fb7-87bb-40bfac18bf84 2009-06-27T07:18:01Z 2009-06-27T07:18:01Z

I agree with Sherpa tho that it depends on how well integrated it is regardless of aspect. Saturn mars aspects can be very tough for example, Hitler had it but so do many sports stars imcluding both Williams sisters who have clearly integrated it very wel!

Paul 2009-06-27T07:18:01Z amiablehermit http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#948c56db-9179-42ee-8853-f57114da6db3 2009-06-27T07:15:57Z 2009-06-27T07:15:57Z

3H Scorpio ~ no fear, just fact, if you can take it in isolation, which I am basically saying I don't and which would mean nothing to me. But as a superficial idiot, I don't expect you to understand that. You are just about trolling, and we all know what trolls are about ~ just poking people to rise above their own sense of inadequacy in any real matter of importance. And your Saturn is ~ where and with what aspects, diva girl?

amiablehermit 2009-06-27T07:15:57Z katrina http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#dfaf65e9-189d-4cc5-8078-2f534df97eef 2009-06-27T07:10:09Z 2009-06-27T07:10:09Z

3H Scorpio Saturn. Fear of being wrong ?

katrina 2009-06-27T07:10:09Z amiablehermit http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#7debdb5e-ad9c-46cb-9f26-9d619dd705f0 2009-06-27T07:02:08Z 2009-06-27T07:02:08Z

It is not my 3H Scorpio Saturn that is any problem at all. It is the aspects to it. And we are not talking about that. It is not "basic," but few things in anyone's chart are. In 3H, Saturn in and of itself is not fearful or particularly restrictive. Get into the aspects, and you have a different story. If you want to talk about Saturn independent of anything else, that is one thing, and plenty has been written about that. But for the most part I find that all rather useless from a practical standpoint.

amiablehermit 2009-06-27T07:02:08Z Paul http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#3beec339-bb8f-4a87-8687-9f0131a0bb39 2009-06-27T05:09:52Z 2009-06-27T05:09:51Z

Saturn as 'malific' is bad hype and part of the bad rep this planet has gotten from armchair astrologers immobilized by their unintegrated Saturns. I couldn't agree more! It's hardly worth mentioning but liz greene's book on Saturn is probably the first time an astrologer made this planet less doom and gloom!

Paul 2009-06-27T05:09:51Z Paul http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#f8a5963c-c14e-441b-8135-8c76f83cd825 2009-06-27T05:06:26Z 2009-06-27T05:06:26Z

I think saturn is one of the most important planets. By defining structure it allows us to actually do things. Without it we would still have the impulse to do things (mars) but not the vehicle to allow it. Saturn is all about reality, it is about making things matter, in both senses of the word! It has been stated before that in the qbl Saturn relates to binah whose function is to temper non-physical energy into something materially useful. If mars is the fuel then Saturn is the engine which makes the fuel useful.

Paul 2009-06-27T05:06:26Z sherpa http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#64f90c2e-5af8-4459-8c59-b84141ea8983 2009-06-26T23:48:39Z 2009-06-26T23:48:39Z

derrick <<Another quick question: since Saturn is regarded as malific, should we interpret his "positive" aspects accordingly? How would one approach a Saturn sextile ASC aspect? >> Saturn as 'malific' is bad hype and part of the bad rep this planet has gotten from armchair astrologers immobilized by their unintegrated Saturns. It's no accident that Saturn has been minimzied in your chart if it is conjunct your North Node, as that signifies an area in your life (the House plays a huge role here) of your greatest challenges; not an easy access point by any standard. You can reach for it but never fully embrace it. But reach you must since those chalenges can evolve you. These challenges specifically involve coming to terms with status and authority -- how you are defining these terms -- towards their embodiment as an ever-increasing self-accountability (Saturn sextile ASC)

sherpa 2009-06-26T23:48:39Z derrick http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#27f33e4d-d8c7-4b9d-86b8-8736f06ff890 2009-06-26T23:37:33Z 2009-06-26T23:37:33Z

"Too little Saturn can also manifest as a life bereft of the power to manifest one's dreams, ambitions and intentions. Anyone can have dreams and ambitions but without integrating natal Saturn, they remain frustrated or half-baked at best. " Sherpa, Once again, you've opened my eyes. I think I have too little Saturn, as the above statement does reflect me. But I'm a bit confused about something. What would a aspect of Saturn conjunct North Node signify? As Saturn is said to be the planet of karma. I'm gaining more understanding of Saturn. He's a toughie, that one. I liked that you differentiated between fears in the contemporary context and Saturnine fears, because I think there is a difference. I think Saturn's fears are inherent and necessary, while many socially accepted definitions of fear are, or atleast can be, learned psychoses or behaviours. Another quick question: since Saturn is regarded as malific, should we interpret his "positive" aspects accordingly? How would one approach a Saturn sextile ASC aspect?

derrick 2009-06-26T23:37:33Z Heather http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#23b3d2e6-9a64-4981-941f-118396b9bc32 2009-06-26T22:05:14Z 2009-06-26T22:05:14Z

My Saturn is in Gemini in my second house.. square Venus and Sun (both in Pisces).

Heather 2009-06-26T22:05:14Z $item.owner.firstName http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#184342e9-f977-47df-8aae-e6bee9f01735 2009-06-26T21:54:00Z 2009-06-26T21:54:00Z

I sometimes wonder if I have a fear of being sucessful or being competitive. I sometimes compete with myself, yet dont like competing with other people. I just do what I can to do my best. Cant say I'm ambitious, interestingly sometimes I feel the most peaceful while I'm putting forth 'work' effort in whatever form it ends up taking. 8th house saturn taurus, never seem to have trouble with being responsible with money, though. I grew up with little in the way of financials, so I'm used to getting by with little. Death and I seem to be friends. Relationships can be wonky at times, but who ever said they were going to be easy, eh. And if they are easy then, I'd most likely be why... lol.

$item.owner.firstName 2009-06-26T21:54:00Z $item.owner.firstName http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#d9f4bfe4-6aa8-49e8-90cc-17c72f996dd9 2009-06-26T21:20:27Z 2009-06-26T21:20:27Z

to be honest i have never feared god, afterall i am not catholic...lol..seriously i have no religion, and know little of organized religion. i didnt even know what the deal was with palm sunday, ash wednesday and easter a few years ago... when i asked my stepfather he looked at me bewildered and annoyed! i fear being disconnected from myself and from other people. i guess it is a fear of being disconnected from god, since we are all one... but never thought of that in a direct way. if there is no god, i will never know, for when i am dead it will be too late. its people i fear, you give some of them your complete trust and many just play games and think its ok cause they are so wrap up in their own egos. it doesnt matter what i know for a fact, i feel it, and i find people can make me feel like i am in heaven or hell. but god i dont fear, i just fear some of his creations. i dont fear the afterlife, either it exists or it doesnt, why fear something that you wont know until it's too late. all you can do is try to do what feels right now in this life. why would i follow a belief i feared? i never really understood that about organized religion. oh i hope i am not sounding crazy :-(

$item.owner.firstName 2009-06-26T21:20:27Z sherpa http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#f6ff73df-0ee2-44eb-82b8-08c77d7d8dca 2009-06-26T21:06:47Z 2009-06-26T21:06:47Z

<<with that being said i have never feared with regard to belief, i have more fear toward people.>> what about 'fear of god' or the fear that there may not be a god or fear of being disconnected from god ? any of those fears ring saturn's bells ?

sherpa 2009-06-26T21:06:47Z $item.owner.firstName http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#7c8197c7-7063-4484-b18b-d2f825699d7f 2009-06-26T21:02:31Z 2009-06-26T21:02:31Z

sherpa, thanks for your reply... it is true i really have no set belief, i believe in something more/higher and accept i can not grasp the details (gemini 9th house saturn), all i can do is belief in my intuition that there is something more.. i try to always keep an open mind/view of things, for i feel however i connect, it is not the same for everyone (saturn trine ascendant & sextile moon), we all have our way to connect to something bigger than ourselves, we have different views, much depending on our material/physical existence and experiences here and now (4th house mercury mutual reception 9th house saturn)... as long as we connect... everchanging within myself. with that being said i have never feared with regard to belief, i have more fear toward people.

$item.owner.firstName 2009-06-26T21:02:31Z sherpa http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#5127fe97-0c4e-42e2-b689-a7dbe171b96e 2009-06-26T20:50:48Z 2009-06-26T20:50:48Z

<<i have saturn in the 9th house and have never had any fears regarding furthering my education or philosophy in life, or foreign cultures... neither can i relate to being a "teaching idiiot" >> A 9th House Saturn can indicate an epistemological fear of there not being anything you can truly believe in. It's not so much about a "teaching idiot" as perhaps a skeptical idiot...lol...but this also brings acute powers of observation. Though the skeptic may not be able to beieve in anything "hook, line & sinker", there can be a broad-ranging philosophical ecleticism from stitching together all your favorite axioms from multiple systems of relgion, philosophy, metaphysics, etc. into your own kind of patchwork quilt cosmology

sherpa 2009-06-26T20:50:48Z $item.owner.firstName http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#94abb1d0-6cbe-46d7-a896-93973e8e1ef6 2009-06-26T20:31:16Z 2009-06-26T20:31:16Z

<<You can start by understanding the meaning of the House that natal Saturn resides in as an area in your life where you may have firsthand experience of certain fears of inadequecy, as well as ambitions to overcome or overcompensate for those fears.>> i really like your explaination and first hand experiences with saturn. i just dont see it with my chart. i have saturn in the 9th house and have never had any fears regarding furthering my education or philosophy in life, or foreign cultures... neither can i relate to being a "teaching idiiot" ... lol

$item.owner.firstName 2009-06-26T20:31:16Z Paul http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#223abc3d-4721-4bd2-b9e4-95142ad37e28 2009-06-26T20:16:58Z 2009-06-26T20:16:58Z

"When it stops your from climbing the mountain it's Not a good thing But when it keeps you from falling off the mountain it''s a good thing. " Nice.

Paul 2009-06-26T20:16:58Z sherpa http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#dfef019c-b7b7-478d-99c3-c598bc7cd2d7 2009-06-26T20:10:28Z 2009-06-26T20:10:28Z

<<So how does a person recognize their fears? Do they have a particular flavor that's recognizable or identifiable?>> You can start by understanding the meaning of the House that natal Saturn resides in as an area in your life where you may have firsthand experience of certain fears of inadequecy, as well as ambitions to overcome or overcompensate for those fears. For example, I have 11th House Saturn and I was extremely shy around people and crowds when I was younger. I felt as if I lacked all the parts necessary to deal with social situations effectively. I eventually faced my fears of people and crowds by mustering up the commitment for going into the performing arts. I chose to commit to the very thing I was afraid of. This helped me overcome my fears and gave me the confidence to work with groups as a vehicle to realize my ambitions and dreams as a playwright and later, as a filmmaker.

sherpa 2009-06-26T20:10:28Z $item.owner.firstName http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#efc731a0-7f8e-42eb-8df4-9b97b107cc4a 2009-06-26T20:09:24Z 2009-06-26T20:09:24Z

In my natal chart saturn square sun, saturn trine moon, saturn square mercury, saturn trine venus... work work work work... many areas requiring work or effort, understanding and analysis... ;)

$item.owner.firstName 2009-06-26T20:09:24Z $item.owner.firstName http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#9ee8057e-d40d-4f3d-be86-de3d0297db5f 2009-06-26T20:01:18Z 2009-06-26T20:01:18Z

saturn opposition neptune, which can confuse the clarity of fear at times... anger actually can help clear things out so I can actually focus. I am slow to anger, so the pressure cooker can sometimes take along time to steam or boil.

$item.owner.firstName 2009-06-26T20:01:18Z $item.owner.firstName http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#489a64e6-1460-4878-a885-a99939c7a8ce 2009-06-26T19:39:14Z 2009-06-26T19:39:14Z

<<So how does a person recognize their fears? Do they have a particular flavor that's recognizable or identifiable? >> atalaya, i would think that would be determined by an individual's saturn and aspects. i personally recognize fears through anger, i let things go and then i am, like enough is enough... saturn opposite mars... yes there is more to it, i am a saturn girl, so to keep it simple.

$item.owner.firstName 2009-06-26T19:39:14Z $item.owner.firstName http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#cb8801a9-6922-41a1-ad97-c31ae7a1ea57 2009-06-26T19:37:58Z 2009-06-26T19:37:58Z

Saturn aspects ~ http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrological-aspects/saturn-aspects.php

$item.owner.firstName 2009-06-26T19:37:58Z $item.owner.firstName http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#df4543d9-fd7a-4c2e-ae5c-1aa93a39ca0d 2009-06-26T19:21:22Z 2009-06-26T19:21:22Z

So how does a person recognize their fears? Do they have a particular flavor that's recognizable or identifiable?

$item.owner.firstName 2009-06-26T19:21:22Z Brian http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#ab4e2e6d-d5ce-4a53-af76-1f71d9964d5b 2009-06-26T19:19:20Z 2009-06-26T19:19:20Z

"Too little Saturn can also manifest as a life bereft of the power to manifest one's dreams, ambitions and intentions. Anyone can have dreams and ambitions but without integrating natal Saturn, they remain frustrated or half-baked at best. Too much Saturn can also manifest as a life burdened by excessive responsibilities, duties and the heavy sorrow of a caged songbird." ================ What if you're burdened by too much AND too little Saturn? Saturn doesn't make any major aspects to my other planets.

Brian 2009-06-26T19:19:20Z $item.owner.firstName http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#3f8d1163-9c26-47f1-9e85-0ba1e3b7d18d 2009-06-26T19:05:08Z 2009-06-26T19:05:08Z

dragon, i like how you worded that :-)

$item.owner.firstName 2009-06-26T19:05:08Z Dragon-of-Q http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#658442a6-2df4-4492-a4d2-b43d743ef271 2009-06-26T19:03:38Z 2009-06-26T19:03:38Z

Fear, When it stops your from climbing the mountain it's Not a good thing But when it keeps you from falling off the mountain it''s a good thing.

Dragon-of-Q 2009-06-26T19:03:38Z $item.owner.firstName http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#95abfd1a-71a3-4595-b77c-c8e04acc0380 2009-06-26T19:02:18Z 2009-06-26T19:02:18Z

too much saturn could be seen if someone is living well below their potential due to fear.

$item.owner.firstName 2009-06-26T19:02:18Z sherpa http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#b98de59d-d0db-4501-b67e-1947930bb65d 2009-06-26T19:01:35Z 2009-06-26T19:01:35Z

<<So hows does a person know they have too much or too little saturn influence?>> By the degree of limitation and fear they experience in daily life. Those who face their fears and limitations, learn to live and work with them and even overcome them sometimes, can benefit from the maturation processes that Saturn brings, ie., after Saturn's lessons are accepted, applied and integrated. Too little Saturn can also manifest as a life bereft of the power to manifest one's dreams, ambitions and intentions. Anyone can have dreams and ambitions but without integrating natal Saturn, they remain frustrated or half-baked at best. Too much Saturn can also manifest as a life burdened by excessive responsibilities, duties and the heavy sorrow of a caged songbird.

sherpa 2009-06-26T19:01:35Z $item.owner.firstName http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#7212fb9c-ac53-4533-a6e1-6ac529bd9307 2009-06-26T18:49:32Z 2009-06-26T18:49:32Z

Yep, responsibility & reality, seem to stick out as a few of saturn's variety of lessons. So hows does a person know they have too much or too little saturn influence?

$item.owner.firstName 2009-06-26T18:49:32Z b http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#7688a4a8-4dc9-4a82-a02e-14a06ae87096 2009-06-26T18:41:04Z 2009-06-26T18:41:04Z

Here is a sketch of how I feel about Saturn. http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee3/green_arrowXblack_canary/saturn.jpg He's not nice. Not nice at all. I've been reading up on astrology for a long time, and for some reason I just now learned that Saturn is referred to as the Greater Malefic.

b 2009-06-26T18:41:04Z sherpa http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/748ab9be-c517-48a3-80a3-9e902b29eb8c#d8beb1ff-677a-45ba-b031-ca942adce83c 2009-06-26T17:40:56Z 2009-06-26T17:40:56Z

Saturn as a Limiting Force of Fear and Responsibility Life's more expansive experiences can trigger forces of an equally constrictive nature when that abundance turns to excess and threatens your integrity. Eat, drink, and party too hardy and your health suffers. Awareness of real limitations on any level can be symbolized astrologically by Saturn, the limiting force of your actual fears and true responsibilities. Actual fear (not an imagined fear) is a survival signal alerting you to a life-threatening situation: You spent the rent money and an eviction notice is served. True responsibility involves the effort to become aware of the consequences of your actions and to build your competence at meeting your basic survival needs. This means working to build and maintain the reality structures of your life and this process differs for each person. When Saturn's limiting force is ignored or denied, a potentially immobilizing condition arises. One's sense of reality becomes buffered by compensatory phobias (perceived threats) and considerations (false duty) and then, frozen by the frustrations of unmet needs and unrealized dreams. Saturn symbolizes the ability to reality check yourself, to be your own anchor. In any astrology chart, Saturn can pinpoint a critical grow-up-or-freeze-up zone, defining the necessary issues for maturating the personality. Saturn means business. When Saturn over-emphasizes, spontaneity and creativity can be stifled and crushed. Too much Saturn spoils the party but not enough Saturn can spoil your entire life. By learning to respond to your real fears, you can develop enough response-ability to convert those fears into commitments. One hundred percent commitment amounts to integrity. Whatever you can get behind 100% is where you will find your real integrity and often that is symbolized by the House that Saturn resides in.

sherpa 2009-06-26T17:40:56Z