chiron sq chiron

topic posted Thu, December 8, 2005 - 5:18 PM by  Unsubscribed
Hello All..........I am finishing up my chiron sq chiron very soon........i have my chiron @ about 24degrees aries. Anyway, I believe the sq started at about 16degrees capricorn. My question for you experts: What does this mean? What kind of events manifest during this time? Please help guide me............Thanks........Breath
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    Re: chiron sq chiron

    Thu, December 8, 2005 - 5:24 PM
    Breath, Zane's the Chiron guy. Hey, I've got Chiron conjunct Chiron (Chiron return) goin' on right now. How 'bout that for a freakin' crucible... It's all good tho'. I'm strong like bull!
    • Unsu...

      Re: chiron sq chiron

      Thu, December 8, 2005 - 5:28 PM
      thanks D! yeah, zane i looked on your chiron and friends site, but i couldn't find anything........i have searched on other sites too, but nada! crossing my fingers that someone can help...........thanks! breath........hey d at least you get to heal rather than wound! i am hoping that i haven't wounded anyone.........
      • Unsu...

        Re: chiron sq chiron

        Thu, December 8, 2005 - 5:33 PM
        Wounding to heal, healing wounds, wounded healer. That's my new resume! Kinda cryptic, but it will suffice.
      • Re: chiron sq chiron

        Fri, December 9, 2005 - 7:43 PM
        yeah, i was looking for info on this one a while back as well, but didn't find a whole lot. natal chiron's at 27 aries - revisited the square when chiron went direct in capricorn recently.
        sorry, not really adding any helpful info here, but definitely interested in any info anyone else adds!
        (thanks for asking the question, breath :)
      • Re: chiron sq chiron

        Fri, December 9, 2005 - 9:04 PM
        Here is the section of my book on Chiron square Chiron. I will also upload, after a finish this post, a chart showing the approximate ages that Chiron squares its natal position for the first time:

        "To me the most interesting Chiron transits are the aspects it makes to its own natal place. First of all, Chiron has a very eccentric orbit. It is in Libra for only about 1-3/4 years, yet it stays in Aries for over 8-1/4 years. This process produces drastic differences, depending on Chiron’s sign, as to when it makes its first aspect to the natal position.

        Now with Saturn the astrological literature is filled with articles about how Saturn-to-Saturn aspects divide mankind’s life into regular sections of about seven years each (Saturn being so regular in its orbit that you can tell without an ephemeris approximately what part of its cycle someone is in simply by asking his or her age.) For example, first transit of Saturn square natal Saturn happens to everyone at about 7 years of age, and first opposition around age 14. Thus you can define what stage mankind is in at any time by Saturn’s aspects. You could use them to describe the archetypal human life.

        But with Chiron the story is different, drastically different. A person with Chiron in early Virgo will have the first square (with Chiron in early Sagittarius) when he is only about 5-1/2 years of age. Yet a person who was born when Chiron was in early Pisces will not experience the first square (when Chiron transits early Gemini) until he is past 23 years old! What a drastic difference. And with the other Chiron signs, the square occurs at various ages between these two extremes. Think of the ramifications and permutations. A 5-1/2 year old is still a child, his personality is still being formed (most scientists say that the personality is formed by about age 7, in other words, by the time of the first Saturn square), he is still living totally under the influence of his parents or other adults, he has seen almost nothing of the world, and has not even seen one whole Jupiter cycle yet! On the other hand, a person past the age of 23 is an adult and has been considered so by society for a few years already, his personality has been long formed, in most cases he no longer lives with his parents, is probably self-supporting, possibly married for a few years already. He has already seen transit Saturn square, opposition and again square his natal Saturn, is soon to see his second Jupiter return, and has already experienced transit Uranus square natal Uranus! What a drastic difference. How differently must one be influenced by the first Chiron square depending on what age one is when it occurs.

        To give you a clearer picture of how drastic the age difference is, look at the chart. Across the bottom you will find each sign. Find the sign your own Chiron is in, for example. Then up and down the left of the graph are the ages for the first Chiron square. So after you have found the column for your sign, run your finger up until you find the graph line, then look for the age to the left of that point. If you know whether your Chiron was early or late in its sign you can be more specific as to age. For example, I have Chiron at 0^01’ Capricorn, which means the first square occurred at a little past 17 years of age. My wife has Chiron at 18^51’ Capricorn, so the first square for her was about 19-1/2 years of age. My sister has it at 13^37’ Leo, so she was only 5-1/2 when Chiron made its first square.

        What does all this mean? Well the first square is a major lesson which brings the turning point, a new world opens up to you, or something new will come into your world. The exact nature of the event depends on the natal house, the house the transiting Chiron is in, and of course, other planets which are involved at that time. A few examples may help to shed light on this.

        I. A very shy introverted person with difficulty communicating with others (yours truly as a child) had Chiron in Capricorn in the tenth house. At the time of my first square I was informed that since I was #3 in my graduating class in high school, and therefore Salutatorian, I had to give a speech at graduation. I had never talked to a large group before, and never had given any kind of speech. I was terrified, but went ahead, and got through it. My self-confidence grew. My ability to communicate grew with it.

        Due to retrograde the square happened twice more. The second time I suddenly found myself, for the first time, living away from home at a college, making my own hours, meeting people, cultures and philosophies I had never dreamed of. The final time I changed my major from botany to psychology. This was major because I had wanted to be a botanist since age 7!

        II. One person with Chiron in Leo in the fifth found that, at the time of her first square at age 5-1/2, her parents moved her to a new neighbourhood. In her old neighbourhood she had been an ordinary person but now she was made fun of and ‘picked on’. She began to make friends with others who were also ‘underdogs’, and feels that it was for this reason that she has always felt that she has more in common with the underdogs in life.

        III. A person with Chiron in Capricorn in the fourth met her fiancee when Chiron in her seventh made its first square. At the retrograde square they discovered that he had terminal cancer, but married anyway. At the third square his sickness became very severe and he died shortly thereafter.

        IV. A person with Chiron in Libra in the second received a present from her parents at age 7 when Chiron made its first square: a piano. She later became a music teacher.

        Also, the exact nature of the Chiron turning point depends upon one’s age. For those Chiron-signs who make a first square before the first Saturn square, the Chiron lesson must be learned first, in order that the Saturn lesson be truly understood. This is a small group, as you can see by the graph, from Cancer to mid-Libra. However you define the first Saturn square, it IS the first real test to one’s reality structure; it marks the first real awareness of the concept of time. Since Chiron denotes non-chronological time, perhaps people with these Chiron positions must discover “Chiros” before Chronos so that the latter does not fit them into too tight a mold.

        From age 7 to 14, and thus AFTER the first square of Saturn but prior to the first opposition, we have a large segment of the population: Chiron in Taurus and Gemini, and then also mid-Libra to mid-Sagittarius. All of the people born with these positions need a basic ground in Saturn’s view of reality and time before they can take a look at Chiron’s Chiros. yet they must get a glimpse of Chiron’s doorway into another world before the Saturn opposition Saturn brings their first confrontation with the reality structures of their peers. Perhaps without the Chiron square these people would be unable to get truly beyond their own world enough to deal with other people at age 14.

        From age 14 to 21, and thus between the opposition and second square of Saturn, we have Chiron in Aries, and then mid-Sagittarius through Capricorn. These people need the confrontation with the reality of others before they can begin to appreciate that any other world exists beyond their own.

        Finally we have the age 21 to 23-1/2 group; past the second Saturn square, with only the Saturn return awaiting them before they have experienced the entire Saturn cycle. These people need as much Saturn influence as possible before they are ready to look through the doorway into another world, or to experience another kind of time. Perhaps because the rulers of Aquarius (Saturn/Uranus) and Pisces (Jupiter/Neptune) are on either side of Chiron, or perhaps because Uranus and Neptune teach of things that are way beyond Saturn’s earthly structure and material viewpoint, these positions for Chiron need an extremely thorough, extensive grounding in Saturn before the Chiron square so that the people don’t get carried away into totally irrelevant directions.

        Anyway, it is important to note that ALL Chiron positions have their first square BEFORE the Saturn return, and thus all people need to understand that there are things beyond their own reality before they can begin to build their own reality, separately from the past, at the Saturn return."
        • Re: chiron sq chiron

          Sat, December 10, 2005 - 8:00 AM
          thanks for the great info. zane.

          i see someone that posted has been having a chiron return? question - is that basically the same as chiron conjunct chiron?

          on another note, a good friend of mine has chiron at 9 to 10 degrees taurus and had mars in taurus pass over his chiron, then retrograde over it again, and now it's going to move foward over it yet again on dec. 24. any insights into what that could mean for him? this is all in the 8th house.

          take care astro travelers!
          • Re: chiron sq chiron

            Sat, December 10, 2005 - 8:03 AM
            oh yeah...

            i was a little confused about something zane...

            when you were talking about looking at one's chart and looking across the bottom where the zodiac signs are, to find something about chiron...??? is this a chart of some kind?
          • Re: chiron sq chiron

            Sat, December 10, 2005 - 10:54 AM
            Hi, k,

            Yes, a Chiron return is the same as a transiting Chiron conjunct natal Chiron.

            The chart in my article is the one I uploaded to the Astrology gallery. It shows the approximate ages when a person can expect the first Chiron square Chiron.

            Mars passing over Chiron 3 times would be the same, I guess, as any planet passing over any point 3 times. There is something really important to learn for this person, and either it is too much to learn all at once, or else the importance needs to be stressed over and over.

            So what is a Mars transit, in general? It is a time when a person feels the need for greater activity and assertiveness in the area that is being hit (in this case, Chiron.) There is an increased urge for action, for activating the planet in some way, for using its energy. It is very difficult to keep that planet quiet....there is a need to get things done! Common themes during a Mars transit are energetic activity, quick reactions, and conflicts. People experiencing a Mars transit will become busier, more energetic, more self-directed, more determined, and more assertive. They will be moved to take the initiative and not wait for others to do things first.

            So all of this energy is being applied to your friend's Chiron. (And not only 3 times....but the station last night was close enough to create a Mars vibration on his Chiron to last for many weeks to come.) So it seems the universe is egging your friend on to deal much more actively with some wounds, perhaps making it so avoiding dealing with them is impossible. Also, it may be that your friend is being called upon to take a very active roll in helping heal, guide, teach, or mentor other people.

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