Advertisement
what's the significance? esp, what's the significance for each sign that it's in?
Advertisement
Advertisement
-
Re: chiron
Mon, May 9, 2005 - 10:22 PMThe short version...Chiron deals with deep wounds that a person carries with them, that shaped who they have become. It deals with healing, with opening doors. It is the road less travelled...the maverick choice.
Here is a brief article I wrote several years ago on Chiron through the signs. But of course, this only scratches the surface:
Aries: Theirs is a personal imperative to push their potentials to the maximum ... a strong need to make their own point of view understood ... believe the rights of the individual are paramount.
Taurus: A personal imperative to search for values that are truly lasting ... they feel that no one should be deprived of the necessities of life ... often quite innovative in solving problems in the material world.
Gemini: It is especially imprtant for them to understand why there is a communication breakdown, or why there is an obstacle to communications, and to do everything to resolve the problem.
Cancer: "Security!" Nothing must stand in their way as they work to achieve this. Their family is paramount --- and in the evolved types the family is viewed as all of humanity. More in tune with the emotions than the average person.
Leo: Personal imperative to be individualists ... they need to be called upon to do something "only you can do." They cannot stand any restrictions on their self-expression ... not only for themselves, but for others.
Virgo: Many of these people have the soul of Don Quixote ... they have a personal imperative to right wrongs, correct errors ... there is a deep belief that no one should control another, no one should own another.
Libra: A hatred of injustice --- it must end now, not later. People are extremely important to them, and they fel that nothing must stand in the way of their trying to understand the viewpoints of others.
Scorpio: A personal imperative to control their own lives at any costs ... the ability to tune in to the universal energy and power and use it for themselves ... a powerful awarness of sex and sexual energy.
Sagittarius: They cannot stand the thought that anything should be forbidden, especially if they feel it is something from which they can learn ... need to let no obstacles stand in the way of sharing their beliefs with others.
Capricorn: They need to feel that they are on the right path for them, and they deeply believe that there is one specific path they must find for themselves. They also believe this is true for others.
Aquarius: The personal imperative for these people can be summed up in two words --- The Future. They have the souls of the Bohemians --- free souls --- and have a great deal of sympathy for those who stand out.
Pisces: They have a personal imperative to feel that whatever they are involved in is the truth ... they want to be truly universal in lifestyle ... one of the major lessons they have to learn is to avoid falling for wrong causes -
-
Re: chiron
Mon, May 9, 2005 - 10:37 PMthank you, zane! my chiron is in tarus, is there any more infor you could give me, or could you steer me in the direction of more? -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 6:12 AMYou are welcome.
Are you looking for more info on Chiron in general? I would like to suggest a good starting place would be my site, www.geocities.com/adamlink/chiron.htm
As for your own particular Chiron, I would have to look at your individual chart to offer any personal incites. -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 7:28 AMi just put it in my profile, if you want to take a look at it i'd be much obliged.
thanks for the link. -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 4:00 PMYou have Chiron in the 3rd house conjunct Mercury.....
Chiron in the 3rd: Unless other things point to the contrary, there is an innate belief (which goes back to childhood) that all things are possible. Relationships of all kinds are always on these people’s minds. In the lower type the sense of humor is very “pornographic” (dirty-minded), which stems from the importance of relationships. No matter what social level they are on they have an ability to think like, and communicate with, the common man. Even the people who have elevated their minds are usually noted for their good sense of humor. Basically they are of a liberal bent, often libertarians. They allow no limitations to stand in the way of their mental processes, and they let their thoughts roam everywhere, even to the taboo. In fact their logical minds are not confined to logic; they are very closely linked to their emotions, their instincts, and other areas; and their emotions are very easily aroused. Usually mental experimenters with fast minds, they tend to be mentally versatile, often controversial in thought and word, usually straightforward, possessed of a unique writing style, and often talkative.
Chiron conjunct Mercury: While Mercury is usually looked at as being simply the logical mind, you will find that people with this conjunction have added concern for others into their thinking processes. It would take a drastically negative chart to really suppress this concern, although, in truth, other aspects can also serve to twist or pervert it into something else. These people usually comprehend how the average person thinks, and reach such people with their words and ideas. But, even more, they can think on many different levels, and thus reach many different sorts of people. They are not restricted to simple verbal communication or written words. Chiron takes Mercury out beyond its normal realm, enabling these natives to communicate on many non-verbal levels. Perhaps it is because their minds go places Mercury ordinarily doesn’t go, but these people are truly original thinkers, coming up with ideas that seem farfetched, yet work wonderfully. They seldom overlook some piece of the puzzle because it is too small, or apparently insignificant. It is often such a piece that changes everything. Because their minds are not limited by convention, they can be quite controversial, but well worth attention. [In truth, it is difficult to ignore them, although you may not agree with them, or even like what they are saying]. These are the people to consult when you are blocked and need to find some way out---they can find the loophole, or think of a way to open the door for you.
-
-
Re: chiron
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 8:35 PMThank you so much, Zane!
provides me with a wealth of insight into my head.
:)
wonderful!
(and, all true)
-
-
-
Re: chiron conjunct sun
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 1:18 PMZane,
Chiron conjuncts my Sun (in Pisces). The first time I learned that (about 9.5 years ago) the guy to read my chart was surprised & talked about how unusual it was, but couldn't tell me what it could mean.
Later, I theorized on my own that since the sun represents ego, it could explain why I'm in a constant struggle to have a healthy sense of self & self worth.
What are your thoughts? -
-
Re: chiron conjunct sun
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 4:02 PMChiron conjunct Sun....I think it could very well be tied into your struggle to find self-worth. Sun in Pisces usually only feels truly worthwhile when they find something that can devote themselves to that is larger than themselves...such as a cause of some kind.
Chiron conjunct Sun: A very intense version of the traits described in the previous paragraph. These people are definitely originals, and frequently, originators. For the most part the are full of spirit and with a great wit; able to reach people on all levels as though they were equals. But there is, nevertheless, a kind of barrier around these people that few can pass through, close up. They may alienate many people, even groups of people, with the stands they take in life—but this is usually because those who feel alienated cannot see why the Chiron/Sun person does not buckle under, fit in, stick to the traditional rules. In truth, they DO disregard many rules, for themselves [although they usually won’t begrudge you if you follow them]. They tend especially to ignore people who say, ‘That can’t be done' or ‘You can’t do it that way.’ Not only that, but once they choose how they are going to express themselves, their goals, or their creative nature---they refuse to accept any obstacles in their way. This refusal to be stopped leads them into many new worlds---enabling them to bring together elements and ideas which others may never think of connecting. Most people with this aspect do have a great concern for people and people's problems---but frequently give the impression that they don’t want to be bothered by the problems of an individual. [This may not be true at all---but it often appears that way]. To sum up, let us say that these people go through life forming two groups of people---those who like them, and those who don’t. It is very, very difficult to be indifferent about this type of person. -
-
Re: chiron conjunct sun
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 4:46 PMSome of this definitely resonnates, but I'm not so sure with all of it. Perhaps, if I didn't feel such a major creativety block and surrounded by nothing but obstacles. I've been on the edge of, & having this love/hate relationship with, the big corporate technology world & using it for money while it has it's effects on me. I'm aware of my tendancy to alienate some folks because I don't easily fit in many places. I do tend to cut my own path through life, but I hate that it seems to make me a loner most of the time. I'm less aware of the two group phenomena described at the end of this profile because I have a hard time recognizing when people do really like me. Maybe, I can say more off-list. You may have noticed on my chart in my pics that I also have the Pluto opposition thing going, too. Thanks. -
-
Re: chiron conjunct sun
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 6:25 PMWell, Benjamin, I was doing basic aspects, without looking at your whole chart. Sort of a readers-digest version of a Chiron reading.
I'm sure things would flow even better put into context with your whole chart.
Zane -
-
Re: chiron conjunct sun
Thu, May 12, 2005 - 12:24 AMBen-
A very good friend of mine has this placement... all in the 10th though. She is by far the biggest living model of the wounded healer that i have ever met. Doctors condemned her to a wheelchair but she has healed (is constantly healing) herself and has become an increadible healer in the process. Her path is brutal but she has fully accepted the path of Boddisatva--she has so much compassion for humans it is increadible. All yours being in the 9th and with venus tells me you may want to look into Buddhist tantric dance to allow all the pain you have experienced in your life to help you join with the devine and become a vessel for expression of the gods...
Zane- I have used your website in the past to learn about chiron... it is by far the most comprehensive site on the subject. Thank you for all of your teachings. As far as "generational" aspects are concerned- do you give them any more weight if they are the strongest aspect in the chart? -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: chiron conjunct sun
Thu, May 12, 2005 - 7:27 AMpalesa,
I definitely give even generational aspects more weight if they are strong in a chart. In part, it shows that the particular generational focus is important to the person on a personal level.
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: chiron
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 1:31 PMMy Chiron at 22 Pisces and Saturn at 20 Pisces closely conjoin my 21 Pisces Ascendant. My Pallas, Sun, Mars and Juno are also conjunct Chiron (at 13, 17, 29 Pisces and 1 Aries, respectively).
Chiron is almost exactly trine Neptune at 22 Scorpio and square Jupiter at 22 Gemini. It also opposes the Uranus-Pluto conjunction at 17 Virgo, which is almost exactly opposite my Sun.
Obviously Chiron is very influential, and the wounded healer archetype definitely resonates, but I'm lacking direction (lots of mutability in my chart). Any insights would be greatly appreciated.
Birth data is 3/8/66 at 7am in Tampa, FL. -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 4:14 PMHi, Susie,
With so many Chiron aspects, you are definitely like a visitor to this world rather than a typical native....not quite fitting wherever you go. A Maverick.
You're one of the Chiron/Saturn people. Nice to meet you! One of my favorite singers (Edie Brickell) shares this aspect.
This aspect is a rare one. It has occurred exact only once this century [1966], and so has not produced a great many cases to study. In a recent survey of individuals born during this conjunction, the following information was found:
All seemed to have an extremely low opinion of their fathers, and this included those who lived with stepfathers and adopted fathers. On the other hand, there was a common feeling of warmth toward their mothers. Many of the individuals had parents who were extremely unusual, both in their general attitudes toward parenting, and often in the differences between marriage partners, [such as drastic differences in age.] This unusualness was apparent to others, not just to the child. The number of fathers who abused their children seemed to be higher than average expectancy. But not every case included abuse. Once the native has come to terms with this conjunction, it promises a remarkable ability to delve into the most hidden aspects of life's most basic forms, or society’s most deeply ingrained institutions, or the structures that permeate all levels of a culture. It denotes an individual who learns to make his own reality, if need be. And it indicates one who never lets self be a prisoner to any structure, nor a prisoner of the past.
Chiron conjunct Ascendant: The eyes of these people attract attention. It is said that ‘the eyes are the windows to the soul’, and if this be true, these people seem to have very old souls---their eyes look as though they could tell you a thousand stories. In the more evolved types the ‘cause’ is usually some group of people whom they feel needs help or support---some group that they perceive as being treated unfairly. It is extremely difficult to remain indifferent to those with Chiron conjunct Ascendant ---they seem to almost force you to form some opinion about them.
Jupiter square Chiron: Early in life there is a basic tendency to become too relaxed and comfortable about what to believe ---and how to interpret nearby events. The universe---it seems---abhors any resistance to change, so the person with this aspect goes through periods of upheaval, as traumatic events come to challenge the validity of the personal belief system. And the results usually go one of two ways: a tendency to make some adaptation, but basically to keep the same beliefs, OR a realization that to grow, one must be open to new ideas, new concepts. If the first pattern is followed, there will be many more such challenges, until the person learns to adopt the second pattern. Sometimes a person will build up a shell to shield self from these new challenges---but such shells are almost always shattered by the next challenge. On the other hand, if the person can grow to accept the idea of growth and acceptance of new ways, s/he can often perceive hidden meanings that others never dream about. Compared to the average person, the Jupiter square Chiron individual [even the negative side] has a unique way of interpreting things. The developed type is good at any area in which it is important to convey a slant that differs from the ordinary. Such a person can be an ideal teacher, able to get the meaning across in complex subjects. In public service the native of this aspect will go beyond the system to enable the truth to emerge.
Chiron Trine Neptune: This is another aspect in effect for many, many people. It is a little like the sextile. But, unlike that aspect, the trine gives the individual a tendency to take for granted that the dreams s/he dreams are ideals that will lead to a whole life, and may not be consciously aware of how important these dreams are. If the individual in childhood is allowed to dream and express the dreams, as an adult s/he will feel very comfortable exploring matters of alternate realities and ideals which could slowly change the world. On the other hand, if the person was told in childhood to stick to the real world, the dreams they take for granted will be just the dreams instilled in them by others. Check up on sign and house placements and you can see what sort of dreams the person feels will guide them truly to a whole, balanced life. Check other aspects---especially from Saturn, and you can often see if s/he is following his/her own dreams or those learned from others.
Chiron opposition Uranus/Pluto was for many years...so it is much more of a generational thing than an individual thing.
-
-
Re: chiron
Wed, May 11, 2005 - 1:52 PMHi Zane-
Thanks so much for the information, you've been very helpful. There's still not much detailed information out there on Chiron, so I really appreciate it. I'm sending you a message privately.
Susie
-
-
-
Re: chiron
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 3:31 PMVery cool website, Zane! Impressive how you've detailed your findings. You've really expressed Chiron well using some great key words and have inspired me to look more closely at its influence. Thanks for sharing your research. It's a very worthwhile exploration for those of you with unanswered questions. -
-
-
CHIRON TUTORIAL
Thu, May 12, 2005 - 8:53 PM
-
-
Re: chiron
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 11:21 PM... would you look at mine please please please?
Chiron is one of those planets I cannot find anything on in bulk *grins*
Mine is in Aries, 12th house, conjunct Jupiter in Retrograde. -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 11:24 PMOpp Sun in Libra... and square Saturn. *blah*
My chart is in my profile... I have been trying to experiment with communicating astrological information via language. *grins*
-
Re: chiron
Wed, May 11, 2005 - 10:26 AMCrouton: One easy way ("cheating" almost) to find out where your asteriods were is to go to astro.com, "Free Horoscopes", and "Extended Chart Selection." But I'm afeard I can't help you much further as I'm not very familiar with Chiron... Best wishes!
-
Re: chiron
Wed, May 11, 2005 - 6:57 PMHi, Crouton,
You should check out my website for info on Chiron:
www.geocities.com/adamlink/chiron.htm
Chiron conjunct Jupiter:
There are problems in teaching those who have this aspect. It is not that they do not want to learn---in fact, they want to learn, more intensely, and a broader range of lessons, than the average. The problem is with structure. Getting them to a particular place, and at a particular time, is often very difficult---especially if they must do so on any regular schedule. Unless other things point to the contrary, these people are at their best when they can teach themselves---or at least pick the subjects, and the times and places to study them. These people profit greatly from individual tutors more than from regular schooling. Another expression of this aspect is the tendency of these people to be certain in their beliefs ---they have little or no doubt at all that their convictions are correct. This tendency can be directed positively, or negatively, depending on what their convictions are. This leads to another point: these are people who find meaning in events---in life---that is not quite the same as what others perceive.
They often can perceive significance in things that others overlook, or in ideas others find trivial. Thus they have the potential of reaching others, to help others find meaning in their own lives. This special vantage point can also come out negatively---they may notice great significance in many unpleasant or negative events, and weave a philosophy built upon despair or sadness. Or they could see the meaning of the negative, and develop a philosophy of change---of the sort needed to alter negative conditions. One lesson many who have this aspect must learn is to see the bright side in situations, and to see the good side in people.
Chiron opposition Sun...check a previous post for that.
Chiron square Saturn...a really major aspect:
It is a rare person with this aspect who did not as a child have a great deal of difficulty with parents. Since this aspect seems to stay within orb for many years, it seems to represent more people, whole generations, rather than single individuals. Thus, a great many people came from homes where there was difficulty dealing with authority. Between 1935 and 1952, Chiron and Saturn were exactly square each other 21 times, and in orb most of the rest of the time. A great many people were born in those seventeen years. This aspect is the most significant of any Chiron square, except possibly the square from Mars. First, it expresses itself as a tendency to get set into some routine, or some effort to build a structure that is impervious to change. The person has a clear-cut idea of reality, and while s/he might not like it, it is secure. Even in the severest cases, where the parental symbol was an extreme tyrant or dictator, the child feels, ‘This is the reality.' But Chiron comes along and throws the person totally off his/her feet. S/he may easily feel that s/he has been zapped! The world picture is suddenly different from what s/he had thought it was, and reality must be drastically redefined. At this point, the person usually goes one of two ways. 1. Fear becomes dominant. S/he withdraws, doesn’t know whom or what to trust. Feelings of persecution may arise. S/he knows that what s/he had counted on no longer works, but s/he is too afraid to look for something that will work. S/he may seek guidance---the best thing s/he could do ---but frequently s/he allows self to be almost crushed before seeking help. 2. This is the more positive expression. The person recognizes that it is up to self to put the pieces together to form a more coherent personal definition of reality. S/he pulls self together---sometimes seeking assistance from a counselor, psychologist or guru---and attempts to construct a more workable life system with a structure that will withstand whatever comes. At this point crucial decisions are made. Some go so far as to establish a new, tight, secure foundation for themselves, and then .hide behind it. If this path is chosen, the individual must eventually go through the catastrophe all over again as s/he discovers that the new reality is faulty, too. Some go to the extreme of disregarding conventions, structures, and any definition of reality altogether. They may become totally anti-authority. These people, too, will one day reach a critical point where everything collapses around them---only for them, it may eventually be the coming of a very heavy Saturn event [imprisonment, poverty, ostracism] causing a great loss of personal freedom. If they do not learn from such experience, the cycle can repeat. useful, but only as a means to an end. By learning to accept change, accept authority as necessary to a particular situation [but not as all-powerful], accept that those in power are also human, the person reaches a great equilibrium. S/he can use Saturn when needed, and go beyond it when necessary. In fact, s/he can create his/her own structures to fit the occasion, and discard them when they’re no longer needed. One of the people with this aspect, Robin Williams, said it best as the title of his album, REALITY IS A CRUTCH.
-
-
Re: chiron
Tue, February 28, 2006 - 5:14 AMHello Zane, could i ask you about my chiron aspects? Chiron is very strongly aspected in my horoscope, and although iam sorting it out myself in a way, id like to hear what more experienced person could tell me about it.
The list is fairly long, i dont have all orbs with me here, but its:
Sun 9th aquarius trine chiron 12th gemini 0:00 orb (this intrigues me, extremly strong aspect)
Moon 10th pisces apex of T-square chiron-moon-saturn , saturn is 6th scorpio
Chiron apex of Yod neptune 7th in capricorn pluto 6th scorpio (i heard this aspect is particulary stimulating in spiritual area)
Jupiter 9th capricorn trine chiron
MC in aquarius trine chiron
Chiron conjuction ascendant and north node, but with very wide orbs (i think around 8:50, just over the usual conjuction orb limit, so not sure if that counts).
As for the theme of chiron - both parents are therapeutists and mother is very psychical person. Iam very spiritually oriented, only it seems so natural i dont feel special or anything - just bit different sometimes. Is there anything you could tell me that could give me more insight in what iam supposed to do with so strong chiron?
Iam born 1/23/1985 12:47 As, czech republic, if you want to see chart.
Thank you, Alan -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, February 28, 2006 - 10:55 PMWhat about chiron conjunct moon (both aries) and conjunct taurus south node (by degree) conjunction. Past life emotional wounding somehow involved?
Chiron opposing Juno/ North Node conjunction? Need to move away from old wounds towards balanced relationship? These interpretations seem too neat and easy.
Can't find anything on the internet about Chiron opposite Juno. -
-
Re: chiron
Wed, March 1, 2006 - 1:43 PMHi, Nancy,
First, from my book:
Chiron conjunct Moon:
Vibrations of many types affect these people, so they must learn early in life some deep philosophy which takes into account unseen forces. This may be manifest in profound religion, but need not be. These people are also extremely susceptible to influence from their personal environment, and soon develop very unique criteria [tastes] about what it takes to make them comfortable. Many live in residences that are anything but normal; one may purposely seek out a place that is haunted; another may move into a house made entirely of rubber tires. Should they choose to, they can be great swayers of people’s emotions because they can tune into some feeling common to everyone---some emotion everyone can identify themselves with.
It is often found that a person who has this natal aspect had a mother who was a pioneer in some way, or a researcher, or a specialized adventuress. It appears often that the mother has passed on to the child an abiding curiosity. It is also common that a person who has this aspect had a mother who was very much involved in health and healing, so that the child grew up with an instinctive understanding of how to help others. And, unless drastic indications in the chart point to the contrary, the Moon conjunct Chiron person usually feels very deeply the pains and sufferings of others.
EXAMPLES of people who have Moon conjunct Chiron:
Jerry Lewis, Marjoe Gortner, Jules Lenier, Hans Holzer, Paul Verlaine, Robert Mitchum, Ross McDonald, Karl Malden, Patricia Neal, Sandy Duncan, Colonel Sanders, Terry Jones, John Denver, Carol Burnett, George Peppard, Barbara Streisand, Admiral Richard E. Byrd, Woodrow Wilson, Gaston Doumergue, Marie Curie, Francois Coli, Jean-Paul Sartre, Edmonde Charles-Roux, Farah Diba.
Chiron conjunct South Node
As with the North Node conjunction, those who have Chiron conjunct South Node have difficult lessons to learn. Those who do not learn it tend to fall back upon their past. Problems they have today are ascribed to a strange or terrible childhood, and there is a reluctance to try working them out. When they are under stress, they tend to fall back on this excuse, or begin to act in an erratic manner, allowing Chiron’s Maverick nature to come out in its most negative expression. The lesson seems to be that they should move on from the past---not let it rule them. They learned a lot from it---but now, it is time to go forward. Those who do learn begin to share their unique insights with others. They have integrated Chiron and it is so much a part of their nature that they can draw upon it whenever another is in need of being helped. They aim their sights at the North Node and seem to attract people who can be helped by their Chiron.
EXAMPLES of people with Chiron conjunct South Node:
Merle Haggard, Dick Martin, George Sanders, Billy Carter, Clifford Odets, Arturo Toscanini, John Anderson, Craig Breedlove, Kathryn Grayson, Robert Holley, Ursula LeGuin, Jules Massenet, Camille Flammarion, Paul Reynaud, Karl Ernst Krafft, Josephine Baker, Jerry Reed, Bill Wyman, Charlie Daniels, June Tabor, Kenny Loggins.
As for Chiron opposition Juno, you are probably right. I haven't seen anything on this either. But perhaps I can offer a bit of insight.
Juno, in my experience, can show areas where a person feels small, or is susceptible to feelings of inadequacy when comparing oneself to others. Chiron shows old, deep wounds they have not healed. The opposition may show stuff from your past that, when triggered, brings up old feelings of smallness, old feelings of inadquacy.
Juno also says a bit about a person's ideals are when it comes to being a partner, or what you want in a partner. Chiron can show a path towards self-healing, and/or healing others.
It may show that you will be drawn to people who you will be able to heal, or who will have a healing influence upon you.
With Juno conjunct your North Node, Juno is intimately tied in to the direction you should go to achieve the most growth. Chiron on the South Node would thus show just how intense the old wounds are in holding you back, keeping you from growing, and how important your interaction is with one or more other people to help you to heal. -
-
Re: chiron
Wed, March 1, 2006 - 7:10 PMZane-
My chiron is in Taurus...>It is the only taurus i know about in my whole chart.....i will read your website shortly, but was interested in what you thought about that?>..my chart is in my page, and i am VERY lib/scop/sag heavy in my whole chart... -
-
Re: chiron
Thu, March 2, 2006 - 9:23 PMHi, Angie,
Chiron in Taurus:
"Values change through time and cultures, but these people have a personal imperative to search for values that will remain when everything around them changes. All typical Taurean things, such as possessions and security, are important, but they have unique viewpoints on them. They feel that nothing must stop them from acquiring what they feel they need to survive, and this includes material security. Many lessons come to them from this area of life, and as they evolve they develop a great deal of concern for the needy. They feel that no one should be deprived of the necessities of life, and no one should become wealthy at the expense of others. The less elevated types may not feel this way, but they are working out problems that will eventually lead them to this attitude. These people often are quite innovative in solving problems in the material world."
Chiron in the 5th house:
These people want to be exclusively what they are; they don’t want their creativity to be influenced by anyone else. They tend to be uninhibited and temperamental, and there is frequently an “anything goes” attitude in the way they express themselves. The less evolved types have reputations for loose morals or as playboy types. No rules govern their creativity, and their style is totally their own. These people have a certain something that lives on after they die. There is something so totally unique about them that people know who you are talking about when you mention this quality, mannerism or creation. These people have major lessons to learn through children and/or lovers, and these lessons will change their whole life-style, once learned. They often add a whole new career after pursuing one career for many years, yet frequently keep the old one as well. They have a strong competitive streak, lots of enthusiasm for their field, and if they need to train for something they train hard. Many are known for their sharp or caustic wit. There is often a strong bent toward trying to create a totally realistic style. They are true defenders of self-expression and freedom of thought, unless other things point to the contrary.
People with Chiron in the 5th:
Earth Kitt, George Lucas, Ross McDonald, Burgess Meredith, Kenneth Patchen, Valerie Perrine, Richard Pryor, Philip Roth, Shirely Temple-Black, Sarah Vaughan, Merle haggard, Jules Lenier, Oscar Levant, Henry Miller, Chris Reeves, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Phoebe Snow, Ringo Starr, Simon Wiesenthal, Jacques Cousteau, John Derek, Barbara Streisand, Pierre Renoir, Bertrand Russell, Jean Harlow, Frank Sinatra, Melina Mercouri, Maria Callas, Tyrone Power, Rock Hudson, Robert Goulet, Art Arfons, Groucho Marx, Ruth Buzzi -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: chiron
Fri, March 3, 2006 - 9:47 AMwow Zane...that is pretty damn right on about me....mainly how, when lessons are learned for me, it DOES change my whole life and way of thinking...and how i hold strong to certain values (and some articles/special things)...yet have an unspoken/spoken sadness about the negative world around me.
Im actually in the process of making a short film right now (yet another genre of art i have yet to delve into!) and i always seem to end the same...in death. I think my creativity with the arts is how i will help others in the world (not by death obviously, by beauty and alternate ways of thinking about our realities) ...i will always struggle to help others.
A lot of my friends think im extreme to think that one person CAN make a difference in the world...but i will always belive it! i have too!..:) -
-
Re: chiron
Fri, March 3, 2006 - 10:03 AMA lot of my friends think im extreme to think that one person CAN make a difference in the world...but i will always belive it! i have to!..:)
Rofl..ok..you arent alone. I wonder if this is chiron theme..after all, healer who wouldnt belive in making difference wouldnt be much of good, right?
Besides i dont only belive it, i think its rational truth too. Every time you put in a flower, hug your loved one, do something positive..you are making difference. It gets easier to give love around each time you do it. It was hell of a hard for me at first, but love beats fear once you realize what you are doing to yourself by being afraid.
If i can give you advice Angie, buy yourself piece of red and green tourmaline - or even watermelon if you can get it - and carry it in pouch on your heart. They give vitality and love. It's all about the way you look - world can look sad and be happy in the very next moment if you change tone of your own energies. And the stones will teach your energies how to change - only need to open yourself to them. I think people under Chiron influence consider their pain necessary - but its not always true. It's necessary to heal the wounds, not keep them around forever. Oh and small piece of rose quartz will make it that much sweeter :) i have those stones in my pouch right now..i cant help but smile all the time. -
-
Re: chiron
Fri, March 3, 2006 - 10:21 AMOr, for that matter, you can find some master healer stone according to your sign - i am trying amethyst necklace which is supposed to resonate with aquarius - i can feel big change. but i think the rose quartz is actually most benificient for chiron people that have any depression tendencies - it opens up yourself to self-love, which is the biggest problem (chiron people are pretty much great, but feel left out often..have to learn to love yourself without approval of others)
-
Re: chiron
Fri, March 3, 2006 - 11:42 AMhey Alan-
thanks for that....its true..i do have some unhealed wounds that i have held in...I think i don't cry enough.
ITs kinda funny, the other day, i took one of those silly quizes "what kind of stone are you" and it said i was watermelon tourmeline!....crazy!....so, there you go, it is a sign for me to go out and get some..i think i will today, after work actually...i have also been planning on making a few necklaces this weekend anyways...good plan.
I felt like a lot of my life i was always in another world, never in my age, and always in another realm...It's hard to look at the positive side sometimes for me, im very affected by the negative energy in the world...learning about my chart has really helped me realize why iam the way i am in a lot of ways....always a lesson, always something new to learn.
"..after all, healer who wouldnt belive in making difference wouldnt be much of good, right?"
very right...and i am and will always be a healer....i think i need to find a close mentor in my area..people say they feel my warmth when i walk into a room, and always say how "comfortable i make them feel"....
*hugs*
-
-
Re: chiron
Fri, March 3, 2006 - 12:34 PMSounds very similiar to what i experienced..what stoods in my mind out most is that i never got teasing when i was at school. It always seemed incredible cruel to me when people did it to someone - and i didnt feel a thing when they did it to me. I must say chiron managed to explain it for me as well - someone wounded who desires to heal cant get anyone who wants to wound others on purpose, and you are too used to inner pain to get hurt by simple teasing. I must say i didnt understand this part of me till i turned older.
Sounds like watermelon is calling out for you :) its good strone - contains both feminine and masculine energies, ying and yang. If you ever feel out of synch from your sexuality, it will do wonders. At any rate it has best of both red and green tourmaline and then some.
I envy you that sort of positive energy..shows your energies are going out very pure. Still working on that part here :) by the way, if you want to heal directly with energies, there's the Reiki discipline that works with healing with hands. I just "woke up" spiritually and will have to check that one out :) -
-
Re: chiron
Fri, March 3, 2006 - 12:48 PMhmm...well, i actually took some classes on reiki a couple yrs back...i got "tuned" and WOW did it unfold some bottled energy!...maybe i shoudl have another attunement....I actually DID get picked on as a child...i always thought i was fat...and when i look at pics of me when i was young, i realize i wasn't!...and have come to accept my full figure.;)perhaps it was becasue my mom was a small peruvian...i always saw myself as "big"..i also was molested as a child, and realized a few yrs back that was a reason why i never dated latin/mexican men....even though i am half latin american..so, i guess we all have some wounds to heal still.......and yes, i will get the stones soon!...i need them! -
-
Re: chiron
Fri, March 3, 2006 - 2:27 PMThat sounds nice. What is it that one does need to do to get the attunement? I've seen Reiki masters offering to "unlock" you to level 1 Reiki, and there wasnt even mentioning of any pre-requisites, so iam little baffled as to what will be required of me.
Iam sorry to hear about your childhood. I know molestation always leaves quite deep wound, and no wonder too. I got fairly lightly off in comparsion - i had father who was cheating on mother and made no secret of it too. We practically stopped being family when i was 6, but he stuck around so i had father that wasnt mostly at home and didnt much participate in family life. Funny thing is he "never meant it" - he's practically child trapped in adult body. But, it could be much worse, really. I guess for chiron people it really goes what wont kill you will make you stronger. -
-
Re: chiron
Fri, March 3, 2006 - 6:31 PMCool.. Thanks alot...That was a lot. Are these your writing. Smooth and easy read. Give the information very clear.
And these:
[avoid falling for wrong causes. They have an overpowering need to express love." ]
[Theirs is a deep feeling that the whole world is a family; this gives them a strong community spirit.]
and a few more are getting to be a reacuring theme. Some day I'll be able to name the individual aspects.
I remember the essence of most of them. But I not all that good at the names and terms of things. I still call things the “wachamacallit” my favorite “whoblyha”..
Well Thanx again these are GREAT!!!
-
-
Re: chiron
Fri, March 3, 2006 - 7:08 PMIts amazing how much there is to be learned here. Thanks for all your work, Zane.
My Chiron is in Aries Conjuct Mars and Moon in the first house. A nice stellium for me.
What say you ??
I can look back through the thread for things like Chiron conjuct moon or mars. I didn't really see anything about the first house yet. And any thoughts on that stellium would be much appreciated.
Thanks everyone !! -
-
Re: chiron
Sat, March 4, 2006 - 6:03 PMdee-licious:
Chiron in Aries:
The best way to understand these people is to look at the two most recent periods with Chiron in Aries. The 1920’s (The Roaring Twenties) with their “flappers”, self-expression and uninhibitedness, and the 1970’s, often termed the “Me Generation”, were both very Arien times. Theirs is a personal imperative to push their potentials to the maximum, and a belief that everyone should express himself. There is a strong need to overcome any obstacles that may stand in the way of exploring new areas, especially if these areas lead to greater self-understanding. They have a strong need to make their point of view understood, and believe the rights of the individual are paramount. They want to be first at something. Major lesson: controlling their aggressiveness and coping with the aggressiveness of other people.
Chiron in 1st House....see a previous post.
Chiron conjunct Moon:
Vibrations of many types affect these people, so they must learn early in life some deep philosophy which takes into account unseen forces. This may be manifest in profound religion, but need not be. These people are also extremely susceptible to influence from their personal environment, and soon develop very unique criteria [tastes] about what it takes to make them comfortable. Many live in residences that are anything but normal; one may purposely seek out a place that is haunted; another may move into a house made entirely of rubber tires. Should they choose to, they can be great swayers of people’s emotions because they can tune into some feeling common to everyone---some emotion everyone can identify themselves with. It is often found that a person who has this natal aspect had a mother who was a pioneer in some way, or a researcher, or a specialized adventuress. It appears often that the mother has passed on to the child an abiding curiosity. It is also common that a person who has this aspect had a mother who was very much involved in health and healing, so that the child grew up with an instinctive understanding of how to help others. And, unless drastic indications in the chart point to the contrary, the Moon conjunct Chiron person usually feels very deeply the pains and sufferings of others.
EXAMPLES of people who have Moon conjunct Chiron:
Jerry Lewis, Marjoe Gortner, Jules Lenier, Hans Holzer, Paul Verlaine, Robert Mitchum, Ross McDonald, Karl Malden, Patricia Neal, Sandy Duncan, Colonel Sanders, Terry Jones, John Denver, Carol Burnett, George Peppard, Barbara Streisand, Admiral Richard E. Byrd, Woodrow Wilson, Gaston Doumergue, Marie Curie, Francois Coli, Jean-Paul Sartre, Edmonde Charles-Roux, Farah Diba.
Chiron conjunct Mars:
There is an incredibly strong tendency in the people who have this aspect to do things their own way. If your child has such an aspect, you probably are in the habit of saying, ‘All right, do it your way. Don’t listen to me.' And yet, this very same child WILL accept advice from some person s/he sees as a mentor---if s/he can find such a mentor. So this child must be very careful as to whom s/he turns to for advice. In the adult, there is still the same need to follow one’s own path to resolve problems, although s/he will be more likely to listen to your advice---if you can show that the advice comes backed by some authority noted for special or unique insight, rather than just from your own opinion or some arbitrary authority. Once these people tap into it, they seem to have a remarkable ability to find the key to overcome other people’s problems---and they usually are very concerned with doing that. In their own lives, it is usually different. They tend to have continual or recurrent problems with Martian things, over and over, until they learn some major lessons. After that, they can not only work to attack their own problems in unique ways---but they also develop a remarkable insight into what makes other people tick. There is almost always a unique view of sex, and of sexual roles, that is totally of their own. This is not to say that it is abnormal or unnatural---but merely that it seems to be one they have found for themselves, often a bit beyond socially accepted traditions. It is very unusual for such a person to go through life without making some enemies, or at least alienating some people. This is never done intentionally--- but rather, it happens incidental to their tendency to pursue their own ways.
EXAMPLES of Mars conjunct Chiron people:
Henry Perot, Zsa Zsa Gabor, Huey P. Long, Benny Hill, Bob Crane, Paul Newman, Joseph Goebbels, Walt Disney, F.A. Bartholdi, Marc Chagall, Pierre Mauroy, Billie Holiday, Billy Preston, Daryl Hall, Jackie Wilson, Jackson Browne, Johnny Paycheck, Muddy Waters, Nat King Cole, Ninah Cherry, Roger McGuin, Tony Bennett.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: chiron
Sun, September 16, 2007 - 9:29 PMi love how eager and thoughtful your mood has been with chiron talk,
i have chiron in taurus in the 4th hosue, so i suppose issues with security would also be part of this, can you tell me more from your book, i am very intrested!
also i love the examples you give..kenneth pachen! i love him
thanks!
-
-
-
Re: chiron
Wed, March 1, 2006 - 8:18 PMZane,
Thank you for the Chiron insight. My Chiron is actually 9 degrees conjunct my moon, so a wide conjunction (according to what you listed in your reply to Alan) , but the description of being very sensitive to vibrations of many types, and pain and suffering of others still fits--as well as a sense of tuning into feeling common to everyone (probably underlying some of my artistic interest). I also do have a pioneering type mother (seems to be talk about my mother day) in that she was the only one to leave Minnesota in her family, and she put herself through college--against the wishes of her parents (she had me at 45, so this was back when women just got married instead). She also went through the loss of her first child and started a small business on her own, with no real support from anyone.
Regarding the S. Node (4 degrees conjunction), I do have the sense of having past wounds that need to be healed and resolved before I can move on.
And thank you for the Juno/ Chiron info (0 degrees exact opposition); that definitely fits.
-
-
Re: chiron
Wed, March 1, 2006 - 11:33 PMDoes any one know a resource to find explinations of aspects for chiron
And the other asteroids for that matter.
My chiron has 7 aspects- 2 oppositions- 5 trines yikes..
Also from reading what I have so far. I have it in Pisces 14* 4th house.2nd decan more Cancer gee just what I need..lol
Lilith has 1-sextile 1-semi square 2- trines
Ceres & juno Attached at the hip..lol .03* off each other has 1-conj. 2-sextiles
Pholus-1 conj 1 sextile 2-squares 1 oposition
Palas-1 square
Vesta-1 trine
Is this normal to have 21 aspects for the asteroids alone??? -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: chiron
Thu, March 2, 2006 - 8:15 AM
In my char Chiron is in the 11th house conjunct to the ruler od my chart, Mercury(Taurus). Both sextile Venus (Pisces), quincux pluto (libra),neptune and lilith (in sag).
So there is a doble yod conformed with the mercury /chiron - venus "legs" and pluto apex. The other one with the neptune/lilith - pluto "legs" and mercury/chiron apex.
Also another aspects: Biquintile saturn
Quintile asc and mc
Opposed Ceres
sesquiquadrates Juno -
-
Re: chiron
Thu, March 2, 2006 - 9:39 PMMary:
Chrion in the 11th:
Major lessons for these people include choosing friends and associates wisely, learning how to deal with the ways in which other people express their own unique abilities and talents, understanding children other than their own, and fitting versus non-fitting into society. One’s Chiron can become submerged in this house, never seeming to surface, unless one finds a unique role in society. Then one becomes very much the maverick. The urge to participate in society is unusually strong, and this group is quite aware of the needs and desires of their peers. In fact, once they find their own unique niche, they often become the hub or center for a whole group of people, leading the way down a different path, or bringing together people with a common goal. But for those who cannot find a totally unique role there is an overpowering need to “fit”, to be part of society, and this usually comes out in one of two ways: either a VERY marked conservative streak, or a total disillusionment with society leading to a revolutionary tendency. In the former, there is a tendency to seem “solid” or “dull”, and to appeal to a conservative crowd. Often one has a “loser” image, even if in no way a loser, and a tendency to be modest about one’s achievements and, in general, to have a low-key or understated manner and a tendency toward self-deprecation. It is quite common for someone to start off as one of the above types and then switch to another. One thing everyone in this position wants to be is a problem-solver, so many become interested in science. Their hopes and wishes are very powerful. They have strong ideals, and once they have a specific picture of the world they want to live in they will let no closed doors keep them from getting there. In most, loyalty, team spirit and sportsmanship are very strong.
Chiron in the 11th people:
Edith Custer, Herman Melville, William F. Buckley, Dr. Benjamin Spock, Robin Moore, O. Henry, Vance Packard, John Gardner, William Lamb, Robert Good, Luis Alvarez, Dr. Brian Marsden, Albert Einstein, Allard Lowenstein, Charles Duncan, Henry Kissinger, Gamal Abdul Nassar, Governor Jerry Brown, Yvonne Burke, Richard Alpert (Ram Dass), Anita Bryant, Jane Fonda, Diane Baker, Peter Graves, Phyllis Diller, Bob Crane, Linda Blair, Viven Leigh, Jack Nicholson, Merv Griffin, Diane Keaton, Gregory Peck, Lawrence Welk, Tom Jones, B. J. Thomas, Jose Feliciano, Judy Collins
Chiron conjunct Mercury:
While Mercury is usually looked at as being simply the logical mind, you will find that people with this conjunction have added concern for others into their thinking processes. It would take a drastically negative chart to really suppress this concern, although, in truth, other aspects can also serve to twist or pervert it into something else. These people usually comprehend how the average person thinks, and reach such people with their words and ideas. But, even more, they can think on many different levels, and thus reach many different sorts of people. They are not restricted to simple verbal communication or written words. Chiron takes Mercury out beyond its normal realm, enabling these natives to communicate on many non-verbal levels. Perhaps it is because their minds go places Mercury ordinarily doesn’t go, but these people are truly original thinkers, coming up with ideas that seem farfetched, yet work wonderfully. They seldom overlook some piece of the puzzle because it is too small, or apparently insignificant. It is often such a piece that changes everything. Because their minds are not limited by convention, they can be quite controversial, but well worth attention. [In truth, it is difficult to ignore them, although you may not agree with them, or even like what they are saying]. These are the people to consult when you are blocked and need to find some way out---they can find the loophole, or think of a way to open the door for you.
EXAMPLES of people with Mercury conjunct Chiron:
Troy Perry, Clive Sinclair, Ted Mack, B.J. Thomas, Edouard Daladier, Benjamin Disraeli, Yogi Berra, Governor Brendan Byrne, Nancy Dussault, Roman Gabriel, .Dennis Hopper, Dwayne Hickman, Christopher Atkins, Nancy McKeon. Minnie Riperton, Sir Alec Guiness, Harry S. Truman, Chopin, Marie Montessori, Alma Gluck, Marguerite Duras, Amanda Lear, Billie Holiday, Bobby Darin, Don McLean, Doris Day, Herbie Mann, Jackie DeShannon, Mariah Carey, Muddy Waters, Neneh Cherry.
Venus sextile Chiron:
Those people I have studied show a great deal of love for others, and caring---but it seems the Venus passivity is accented in this aspect. That is not to say that one cannot become successful with this aspect. But, unless other aspects point to the contrary, this sextile seems to express itself more quietly and subtly than most other Chiron aspects. These people tend to help others on a day-to-day basis, sometimes openly but seldom advertised. Chiron here does bring out the romantic side or the poetic nature of the person. There is a definite one-of-a-kind quality in any talent the individual has, and should other aspects propel the individual into the arts, the works will live long after the person passes on.
EXAMPLES of people with Venus sextile Chiron:
Albert Dyer, Claude Kirk, Carl Sandberg, Michael Palln, Doris Chase Doane, James Beggs, Glenn Campbell, Walter Slezak, Igor Stravinski, Pierre Curie, Jacques Soustelle, Al Stewart, Billy Ocean, Bob Geldof, Bob Marley, Chet Baker, Frankie Valli, Helen Reddy, Jean Redpath, Linnea Quigley, Nina Carter, Richie Valens, Rick Springfield, Rickie Lee Jones, Roger McGuinn, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Teddy Pendergrass, Toni Tenille, Trini Lopez.
Pluto Quincunx Chiron:
It appears that this aspect denotes an individual who does not begin to discover a sense of purpose in life, until there is some major traumatic event---often the death of someone close---and learns to integrate the experience into his/her life to make it acceptable. Prior to the trauma the individual is often light, even child-like, and may even be irresponsible. The traumatic event starts the process of change. The person may go through years of ‘hell’ trying to deal with it, unless s/he can find someone who will open up and encourage expression of the pain, rather than trying to repress it. This must be someone with whom the native feels very secure. Once the person has been able to deal fully with the hurt, needing no further work on it, there comes a compelling sense of destiny which stays with the native for the rest of the life.
EXAMPLES of Chiron quincunx Pluto.
Kirk Oates, Mark Fidrych, Archie Griffin, John Travolta, George Sand, Tom McLoughlin, Adam Ant, Bob Geldof, Bonnie Tyler, Bruce Hornsby, Chaka Khan, Germaine Jackson, Michael Bolton, Rickie Lee Jones, Ricky Scaggs, Sam Cooke, Stevie Ray Vaughan.
Neptune quincunx Chiron:
A person who has this aspect tends to allow self to commit his/her whole life to the pursuit of some dream, especially if the aspect is prominent. And the more s/he goes into the dream, the more s/he changes to fit it. It is very difficult to persuade such a person that s/he is on a wrong track, unless you can reach the person when s/he first begins to fail under the spell of the dream. There is a great deal of charisma that seems to come from this aspect---perhaps the spell is contagious. If the native is not spiritually elevated, s/he may be tempted to use this charisma to control others---and usually succeed in doing so.
EXAMPLES of people with Chiron quincunx Neptune:
Don Loper, Clifford Oders, Amelia Earhart, Aristotle Onassis, Ian Fleming, Erich Maria Remarque, Ralph Bellamy, Oscar Levant, Auguste Renoir.
-
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: chiron
Thu, March 2, 2006 - 9:34 PMHi, DragonWire,
I will be happy to give you some info on your Chiron aspects. First, though, what are the orbs for each aspect to your Chiron?
As for the mutliple aspects to the asteroids...yes, it is not unusual. Adding Ceres, Pallas, Juno and Vesta to a chart, you greatly increase the number of aspects most charts have.
-
-
Re: chiron
Thu, March 2, 2006 - 9:32 PMHi, Nancy,
You mentioned that Chiron conjunct your Moon fits, even though the orb is 9 degrees. There could be a few reasons for this, and of course the first one to come to mind is that the maximum orbs I use are too small. I suppose that is possible, but I have not seen Chiron at 9 degrees from a body have a direct effect, in my experience.
Another thing that could be happening is that Chiron is part of an aspect picture in your chart, and that there is a sharing of energies between a planet that is in aspect to both the Moon and Chiron. I have seen this occur many times. For example, a person has Chiron at 10 Aries, the Moon at 15 Aries, and Mars at 20 Aries. Chiron is, of course conjunct the Moon, and the Moon is conjunct Mars. Because of this, Chiron and Mars also influence each other, albeit through the Moon. And it does not only have to be with conjunctions....any major aspect pattern can produce this interconnectedness.
The third reason may be something that is not Chiron at all, directly. I have seen a person who has a planet closely conjunct, opposition, or square the Saturn/Uranus midpoint reflect many of the traits represented by a strong Chiron aspect. We should look at the postions of Saturn and Uranus in your chart, and find the halfway point, and see if you have any close hard aspects to it. -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: chiron
Sat, March 4, 2006 - 8:31 PMZane,
Thanks for the thread, and your analysis. I don’t quite know how to find my Saturn/ Uranus midpoint, but my Uranus is 7 degrees Scorpio, 9th house, and my Saturn is 16 degrees Leo, 7th house. I would guess the midpoint would be somewhere between my Pluto, 12 degrees Libra, 8th house and my Eros, 21 degrees Virgo, 7th house, perhaps making the midpoint conjunct one or both. My 19 degrees Aries moon is opposite my Pluto, so the moon may oppose the midpoint.
Libra (with my Pluto) is intercepted in the 8th house, giving me three signs within my 8th house, and 2 in my 7th, making it extra hard to compute--at least using the astro.com default house system.
This is an extra interesting midpoint to give importance to, since Saturn and Uranus are my chart rulers with Aquarius rising.
-
-
Re: chiron
Sat, March 4, 2006 - 8:44 PMSaturn 16 Leo is 81 degrees away from Uranus at 7 Scorpio. (I am working with the numbers you gave me, nancy, so if your Saturn and Uranus positions also have minutes in addition to degrees, the following will be slightly off.
81 degrees divided by 2 = 40.5 degrees.
16 Leo plus 40.5 = 26.5 Virgo for your Saturn/Uranus midpoint.
I've always felt, personally, that people with strong Aquarius in their chart should look to the Saturn/Uranus midpoint, but I rarely see it mentioned. -
-
Re: chiron
Sun, March 5, 2006 - 4:19 PMZane,
Thanks. The closest body to this midpoint is Eros, at 21 some degrees Virgo. Could this account for feeling the moon/ Chiron energy? The one and only aspect to my Eros is that it squares my Venus. Hmmm. -
-
Re: chiron
Sun, March 5, 2006 - 5:05 PMEros huummm thats a new one on me.. Sex huh..that always interesting..
Is there atread back there somewere??
leme look
-
Re: chiron
Sun, March 5, 2006 - 6:12 PMNancy,
I'm sure your Eros tunes in to the energy of that midpoint, and would thus make it a more significant point in your chart than it might be otherwise.
The little body can be pretty significant as it is, however. Check out Kim Falconer's pages on Eros:
www.nrg.com.au/~d-falcon/...gical_Chart
-
-
Re: chiron
Sun, March 5, 2006 - 8:23 PM5* seems like a wide orb to consider between an asteroid and a midpoint. -
-
Re: chiron
Sun, March 5, 2006 - 8:59 PMI've copied much of this thread for future reference. I have a grand cross including Chiron in the 10th in Aquarius opposition Uranus in the 4th in Leo square Mars in Taurus in the 12th and Jupiter in Scorpio in the 7th. I've never had a clear understanding of an itegrated energy here. Any insights? Thanks, Kali -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, March 7, 2006 - 12:20 PMHi, Kali,
There is an excellent discussion of the Grand Cross (and also of T-squares) at this site:
www.lunarliving.org/astrolog...are.shtml and you may wish to read the whole article. I will quote briefly here:
"One factor that each type of Grand Cross shares is that they are all
fundamentally stressful configurations. Squares motivate action, and
they are perceived as uncomfortable influences; the tension develops
over time, and once it reaches a certain point, we take action to
reduce some of the pressure. Depending on our actions/reactions,
squares can be both constructive and destructive.
"Squares, and particularly very tight orbed squares, can be hard aspects
to ignore. The productive factor to a Grand Cross is that it does offer
a solid foundation; a nucleus with structure and strength that can be a
tremendous resource. However, finding the point of assimilation and
balance in order to be able to take advantage of this gift can be
exceedingly challenging. The key, of course, comes from developing
balance between the two oppositions."
With that said, here is some information on your positions:
Chiron in Aquarius:
The personal imperative for these people can be summed up in two words: THE FUTURE. they can’t tolerate people who refuse to move forward and they feel nothing must stop them from evolving, from discovering the new and the different. They have the souls of the Bohemians (free souls) and have a great deal of sympathy for those who stand out. They need people and want to solve problems for others, as well as to bring people together. They cannot stand closed doors --- they want (to steal a line from Star Trek) “to boldly go where no one has gone before.”
Chiron in the 10th (I also have this):
Tenth House: These people drive themselves hard in their own field, often keeping gruelling schedules. yet they are usually known for being vital, alive and hardworking with a single-mindedness of purpose and a hatred of inactivity. When they talk about their purpose they tend to lecture like a preacher. It is not unusual for them to reach a high position in some field without many of the requirements which are normally necessary to do so, such as a high school graduate working at a job usually filled by a college graduate. In any event, they are usually in a position where they just don’t seem to fit in with their co-workers, such as the only non-family member in a family-run business. Even if they chose a field where it is normal to be “different”, they still seem to just not be like anyone else in the field. Thus they are definitely conspicuous and capable of making quite an impact on their profession. They are known for having a “something extra” which makes them stand out as mavericks, or for NOT having something which others in their field have which also makes them stand out. The public knows these people for their willingness to go beyond conventional methods in their careers, even if there is opposition from others, and they often disdain critics. Many have a great charisma. They usually have a fast wit and tend to be known for their self-deprecating humor . They always feel they must have an immediate goal, and if they don’t have one they invent one. Often they find it difficult to concern themselves with long-range goals. They make good crusaders.
People with Chiron in the 10th:
Jerry Lewis, Paul Lynde, Tom Poston, Jonathan Winters, Tom Smothers, Peter Ustinov, Flip Wilson, Tom Bosley, Dick Cavett, Truman Capote, Gale Storm, Loretta Young, Shirley MacLaine, Marilyn Monroe, Judy Garland, Joan Caufield, Diana Ross, Orson Welles, Willie Nelson, Sam Peckinpah, William Saroyan, Alfred Tennyson, Paul Verlaine, Giuseppe Verdi, Jack Anderson, Thomas Huxley, Isabelle Pagan, Alan Oken, Alice Anne Bailey, Nikola Tesla, Michel Gauquelin, Georg Moore, Milton Shapp, Thomas Eagleton, Robert McNamara, Jerry Rubin, F. Lee Bailey, Leon Trotsky.
Chiron opposition Uranus:
this opposition seems to tie into the ever-quickening pace of scientific breakthroughs that began in the early 1950’s. Actually, one of the problems is that science is making discoveries faster than they can be integrated into society ---even faster than proper safeguards can be devised for our protection from side-effects and from the discoveries themselves. This same ‘vibration’ seems to be part of the nature of individuals who have this aspect. There is a thirst for the new, for discovery, for experiences, that often outweighs the taking of any precautions. This is especially true when the opposition is prominent in the chart. You dare not try to curtail the freedom of such an individual---the consequences are not pleasant. The urge for independence in such a native is so strong---especially if the aspect is prominent---that s/he frequently has trouble in relationships. S/he needs a relationship with someone who will give him/her ‘their own space.’ It is difficult to find someone sufficiently secure to give a partner that much freedom. It seems that these people are always so full of life, and spirit---they may be down, but never for long.
EXAMPLES of people with Chiron opposite Uranus:
Leon Spinks, Tracey Austin, Mark Fidrych, Archie Griffin, Tatum O’Neal, Michael Jackson, Adam Ant, Debbie Boone, Amy Grant, Billy Idol, Bobby Brown, Brad Whitford, Bruce Hornsby, Bryan Adams, Celine Dion, David Byrne, David Lee Roth, Donny Osmond, Elvis Costello, Germaine Jackson, Harry Connick Jr, Janis Ian, Joe Jackson, K.D. Laing, Layne Staley, Lyle Lovett, Mariah Carey, Marie Osmond, Pat Benatar, Peabo Bryson, Rickie Lee Jones, Ricky Scaggs, Tanya Tucker, Thomas Dolby, Cyndi Lauper, George Strait.
Chiron square Mars:
One of the major lesson that this person must learn is to be adaptable---to try new methods when they come along---to experiment. Some learn it early in life while others apparently never learn it. But, until they learn, the following sequence of experience usually comes: The person finds some method that works---some plan of action. S/he uses it continually, getting into a rut [habit.] After this goes on for awhile, Chiron comes along and throws a wrench into the process---the success formula doesn’t work any more, or it produces negative results. When this occurs, the person may fall down, and fall hard! Even when s/he doesn’t actually fall, s/he is definitely thrown off-balance,and must re-orient self. At this point in time, the person usually chooses one of three alternatives.
1. Make an adjustment, and then go back to some routine method of doing things. If this approach is chosen the person will once again have to go through the same process in the future, and again each time s/he refuses to learn. Eventually, this repeated stress can have an influence on the health, producing stress-related ills.
2. Learn part of the lesson. If this is the case, the native learns the virtues of trying new methods, new ways of doing things, but not the ‘why’ of the lesson. S/he begins to revel in each new method. S/he may seek out and try to experience every new act that can be found, every new experience and sensation that exists. S/he is even capable of inventing brand new ones. If the person continues along this course s/he will still be confronted with Chiron throwing a wrench into the act---but the native will see it as just one more new experience, or as a temporary setback. Continued long enough, this person may go to excess with destructive results.
3. The person learns to be adaptable. S/he learns to try new things, and learns to discriminate, so that s/he also knows when the old methods are still valid. S/he uses new ways of doing things when the time is right. S/he thus builds up a broad repertoire of methods and experiences we draw upon, and is seen by others as extremely resourceful and multi-talented. Should s/he turn great personal energy toward helping others, s/he finds a knack for coming up with the right solution for each individual’s problems, and often uncanny insights into what makes people tick. S/he welcomes each new experience, but sees it as a means, not an end.
EXAMPLES of people with Mars square Chiron:
J.R.R. Tolkien, Linda Blair, Spiro Agnew, Alan Alda, Jerry Lewis, Malcolm Dean, Rockwell Kent, Sir Harry Lauder, Percy B. Shelley, Rod Stewart, Jim. Morrison, Tom Aldredge, Florence Chadwick, Ezzard Charles, Nanette Fabray, Billy Graham, Valerie Perrine, Roger Staubach, Gay Talese, Peter Graves, Michael Jackson, Glen Scarpelli, Nancy Reagan, Terry Gilliam, Terry Jones, Marlon Brando, Jack Lemmon, Rex Harrison, David Cassidy, Cezanne, Stravinski, Balzac, Jean Genet, Jean-Claude Killy, Aleister Crowley, Billy Idol, Bonnie Raitt, Bryan Ferry, Charlie Daniels, Chet Baker, David Bromberg, Dollie Parton, Donna Fargo, Doris Day, Dr. John, Geoff Tate, Johnny Winter, Meatloaf, Odetta, Paul Butterfield, Peter Frampton, Peter Gabriel, Phil Everly, Randy Newman, Rod Stewart, Sade, Stevie Nicks, Stevie Wonder.
Chiron square Jupiter:
One of the major lesson that this person must learn is to be adaptable---to try new methods when they come along---to experiment. Some learn it early in life while others apparently never learn it. But, until they learn, the following sequence of experience usually comes: The person finds some method that works---some plan of action. S/he uses it continually, getting into a rut [habit.] After this goes on for awhile, Chiron comes along and throws a wrench into the process---the success formula doesn’t work any more, or it produces negative results. When this occurs, the person may fall down, and fall hard! Even when s/he doesn’t actually fall, s/he is definitely thrown off-balance,and must re-orient self. At this point in time, the person usually chooses one of three alternatives.
1. Make an adjustment, and then go back to some routine method of doing things. If this approach is chosen the person will once again have to go through the same process in the future, and again each time s/he refuses to learn. Eventually, this repeated stress can have an influence on the health, producing stress-related ills.
2. Learn part of the lesson. If this is the case, the native learns the virtues of trying new methods, new ways of doing things, but not the ‘why’ of the lesson. S/he begins to revel in each new method. S/he may seek out and try to experience every new act that can be found, every new experience and sensation that exists. S/he is even capable of inventing brand new ones. If the person continues along this course s/he will still be confronted with Chiron throwing a wrench into the act---but the native will see it as just one more new experience, or as a temporary setback. Continued long enough, this person may go to excess with destructive results.
3. The person learns to be adaptable. S/he learns to try new things, and learns to discriminate, so that s/he also knows when the old methods are still valid. S/he uses new ways of doing things when the time is right. S/he thus builds up a broad repertoire of methods and experiences we draw upon, and is seen by others as extremely resourceful and multi-talented. Should s/he turn great personal energy toward helping others, s/he finds a knack for coming up with the right solution for each individual’s problems, and often uncanny insights into what makes people tick. S/he welcomes each new experience, but sees it as a means, not an end.
EXAMPLES of people with Mars square Chiron:
J.R.R. Tolkien, Linda Blair, Spiro Agnew, Alan Alda, Jerry Lewis, Malcolm Dean, Rockwell Kent, Sir Harry Lauder, Percy B. Shelley, Rod Stewart, Jim. Morrison, Tom Aldredge, Florence Chadwick, Ezzard Charles, Nanette Fabray, Billy Graham, Valerie Perrine, Roger Staubach, Gay Talese, Peter Graves, Michael Jackson, Glen Scarpelli, Nancy Reagan, Terry Gilliam, Terry Jones, Marlon Brando, Jack Lemmon, Rex Harrison, David Cassidy, Cezanne, Stravinski, Balzac, Jean Genet, Jean-Claude Killy, Aleister Crowley, Billy Idol, Bonnie Raitt, Bryan Ferry, Charlie Daniels, Chet Baker, David Bromberg, Dollie Parton, Donna Fargo, Doris Day, Dr. John, Geoff Tate, Johnny Winter, Meatloaf, Odetta, Paul Butterfield, Peter Frampton, Peter Gabriel, Phil Everly, Randy Newman, Rod Stewart, Sade, Stevie Nicks, Stevie Wonder. -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, March 7, 2006 - 12:50 PMThank you very much, Zane, it's very helpful. The link also provided useful information about the subject of the tension. Could I ask you to re-post the Chiron square Jupiter interpretation? It got mixed up with the Mars square Chiron interpretation. btw, I like your new photo. ***Kali -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, March 7, 2006 - 12:52 PMThanks, Kali,
Chiron square Jupiter:
One of the major lesson that this person must learn is to be adaptable---to try new methods when they come along---to experiment. Some learn it early in life while others apparently never learn it. But, until they learn, the following sequence of experience usually comes: The person finds some method that works---some plan of action. S/he uses it continually, getting into a rut [habit.] After this goes on for awhile, Chiron comes along and throws a wrench into the process---the success formula doesn’t work any more, or it produces negative results. When this occurs, the person may fall down, and fall hard! Even when s/he doesn’t actually fall, s/he is definitely thrown off-balance,and must re-orient self. At this point in time, the person usually chooses one of three alternatives.
1. Make an adjustment, and then go back to some routine method of doing things. If this approach is chosen the person will once again have to go through the same process in the future, and again each time s/he refuses to learn. Eventually, this repeated stress can have an influence on the health, producing stress-related ills.
2. Learn part of the lesson. If this is the case, the native learns the virtues of trying new methods, new ways of doing things, but not the ‘why’ of the lesson. S/he begins to revel in each new method. S/he may seek out and try to experience every new act that can be found, every new experience and sensation that exists. S/he is even capable of inventing brand new ones. If the person continues along this course s/he will still be confronted with Chiron throwing a wrench into the act---but the native will see it as just one more new experience, or as a temporary setback. Continued long enough, this person may go to excess with destructive results.
3. The person learns to be adaptable. S/he learns to try new things, and learns to discriminate, so that s/he also knows when the old methods are still valid. S/he uses new ways of doing things when the time is right. S/he thus builds up a broad repertoire of methods and experiences we draw upon, and is seen by others as extremely resourceful and multi-talented. Should s/he turn great personal energy toward helping others, s/he finds a knack for coming up with the right solution for each individual’s problems, and often uncanny insights into what makes people tick. S/he welcomes each new experience, but sees it as a means, not an end.
EXAMPLES of people with Mars square Chiron:
J.R.R. Tolkien, Linda Blair, Spiro Agnew, Alan Alda, Jerry Lewis, Malcolm Dean, Rockwell Kent, Sir Harry Lauder, Percy B. Shelley, Rod Stewart, Jim. Morrison, Tom Aldredge, Florence Chadwick, Ezzard Charles, Nanette Fabray, Billy Graham, Valerie Perrine, Roger Staubach, Gay Talese, Peter Graves, Michael Jackson, Glen Scarpelli, Nancy Reagan, Terry Gilliam, Terry Jones, Marlon Brando, Jack Lemmon, Rex Harrison, David Cassidy, Cezanne, Stravinski, Balzac, Jean Genet, Jean-Claude Killy, Aleister Crowley, Billy Idol, Bonnie Raitt, Bryan Ferry, Charlie Daniels, Chet Baker, David Bromberg, Dollie Parton, Donna Fargo, Doris Day, Dr. John, Geoff Tate, Johnny Winter, Meatloaf, Odetta, Paul Butterfield, Peter Frampton, Peter Gabriel, Phil Everly, Randy Newman, Rod Stewart, Sade, Stevie Nicks, Stevie Wonder. -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, March 7, 2006 - 12:55 PMwhoops! Again it seems that its still the mars square chiron interpretation.
-
Re: chiron
Tue, March 7, 2006 - 2:06 PMMercury is retrograde. I'll blame it on that. ;)
JUPITER SQUARE CHIRON
Early in life there is a basic tendency to become too relaxed and comfortable about what to believe ---and how to interpret nearby events. The universe---it seems---abhors any resistance to change, so the person with this aspect goes through periods of upheaval, as traumatic events come to challenge the validity of the personal belief system. And the results usually go one of two ways: a tendency to make some adaptation, but basically to keep the same beliefs, OR a realization that to grow, one must be open to new ideas, new concepts. If the first pattern is followed, there will be many more such challenges, until the person learns to adopt the second pattern. Sometimes a person will build up a shell to shield self from these new challenges---but such shells are almost always shattered by the next challenge. On the other hand, if the person can grow to accept the idea of growth and acceptance of new ways, s/he can often perceive hidden meanings that others never dream about. Compared to the average person, the Jupiter square Chiron individual [even the negative side] has a unique way of interpreting things. The developed type is good at any area in which it is important to convey a slant that differs from the ordinary. Such a person can be an ideal teacher, able to get the meaning across in complex subjects. In public service the native of this aspect will go beyond the system to enable the truth to emerge.
EXAMPLES of people with Jupiter square Chiron:
Albert Dyer, Rosalind Russell, Marcel Proust, Percy B. Shelley, Rudolph Valentino, John Cage, Henry [Scoop] Jackson, Dan Rather, Gay Talese, Nancy McKeon, Carlos Castenada, Sheena Easton, Camille Claudel, Francois Truffault, Hubert Reeves, Anne Bancroft, James Caan, Sammy Davis Jr., Jack Sheldon, Donald Sutherland, Jane Fonda, Jerry Cantrell, Johnny Cash, Lydia Lunch, Morrissey, Nat King Cole, Randy Travis, Tom Hamilton. -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, March 7, 2006 - 3:45 PMOK! Thanks. I'm always amazed at how a theme is supported by more than one thing in the chart. This Fixed Grand Square has echos elsewhere in my chart. (Posted in my profile if you're interested. ) I wonder if the ego compensations I've been attributing to Saturn/Venus/Mercury in the 8th really have their root in this sqaure. I don't feel comfortable to share more than that today, but I want to thank you for the clarity about this square. Kali -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, March 7, 2006 - 5:35 PMwow you could almost make a whole sight out of this thread.
I re-did all my math I miss stated a few things..oh well..
But now I got the In pisces in house and most of the 6 aspects from Chiron.
6 gees...opp. and 5 trines thats good..
This is a wonderfull service Zane..
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: chiron
Wed, March 1, 2006 - 1:09 PMHi, Alan,
With Chiron in muliple aspects, it becomes a key factor in integrating your chart (i.e. in integrating the different parts of yourself.) One of the best bits of advice I can give you to understand your Chiron is to keep a journal, writing what you are feeling, what is going on in your life, everytime the Sun, Moon or a planet passes over your Chiron.
I can't set up your chart here at work, but I use much smaller orbs for Chiron than I do for a major planet, so some of the aspects you list might not apply. Here is a general rule of thumb I use for Chiron orbs:
Conjunction, square, opposition, trine = 3 degrees
Sextile, semisquare, sesquiquadrate, quincunx = 1-1/2 degrees
Semi-sextile, septile and quintile, 1degree each.
I would add 2^ for aspects to Sun or Moon if conjunction, square, opposition or trine; 1-1/2^ if sextile, semisquare or sesquiquadrate; and 1^ if one of the others.
Here is some general information on the trine that may help, from my book. When I have time, I'll check your chart to see if the other aspects fit in with the above orbs, but I can tell you that I do not see 8 degrees as conjunct the Ascendant. (If it is in the 1st house, though, that is still a strong Chiron position even if not conjunct the Ascendant.)
Sun trine Chiron:
These people have a unique gift. Unless other features of the chart drastically outweigh this, they have a sense of wonder about life and a love of all the surprises life can bring. This wonder is contagious---they can bring it to other people just by being near them. There is also the ability in most of these people to portray this wonder creatively, through art or writing. This talent is not always tapped, however.
There is another side to this aspect. The Sun has a lot to do with self-image and sense of purpose, in addition to creative power. A Chiron trine is always opening up some new aspect of the person for them to develop, or some new world to be explored. In most people, this is seen as fantastic after a while. But for some time, there is an internal fight going on. At a young age they come to a firm conviction about who they are and what they are going to do. The Chiron trine brings these new aspects of the self from areas where the person was sure of having total self-knowledge. If such a person remains entrenched in a confirmed self-image, these new aspects tend either to become repressed [and then work on subconscious levels] or warped to fit in with the self-image that already exists. Once either of these things occurs, the process can snowball, as more insights are likewise repressed or warped. You can see the dangers of continuing this process for long. On the other hand, should a person refuse to explore new worlds that open, because s/he holds on tight to a very limited definition of purpose, the personal world will become less and less fulfilling, less and less realistic. Of course, if such a person can receive help anywhere along this process, the negative can be turned into a positive and bring a real enjoyment of life.
EXAMPLES of people with Sun trine Chiron:
Luciano Pavarotti, David Cassidy, Errol Flynn, Anatole France, Andre Gide, Auguste Rodin, Judy Blume, Mike Love, Richard Speck, Chief Justice Earl Warren, Indira Gandhi, Bernard Baruch, Pete Townshend, Terry Gilliam, John Navin Jr., Paul Thayer, Goethe, Jean Anouilh, Josephine Baker, Gustave Dore, Erik Satie, Robert Schumann, Emile Coue, Alfred Dreyfus, Leon Daudet, Stalin, V.I. Molotov, Charles de Gaulle, Hirohito, Bruce Lee, Viven Leigh, Walter Slezak, Tom Smothers, Christine Ockrent, Bo Diddley, Bobby Fuller, Debbie Gibson, Donovan Leitch, Dr. John, Emmylou Harris, Ian Hunter, James Taylor, Jimmy Page, Marie Osmond, Tanya Tucker, Thomas Dolby, Wilson Pickett.
-
-
Re: chiron
Thu, March 2, 2006 - 1:57 PMHello Zane, thanks alot for interpretation. And for the suggestion about taking notes - that might actually be good idea because sometimes i feel i understand whats going on and few days later its like i've forgotten it and it was pretty important. I checked the orbs and found that another three aspects are within those orbs - moon square chiron with 2'20 orb, neptune quincunx chiron 1'09 orb, pluto quincunx chiron 1'03 orb.
So the chiron really is apex of pluto-neptune-chiron yod here..ive had little debate on page where czech astrologist meet (they dont research chiron here very much, but gladly loan from US colleges :) ) and they all agreed that this Yod can be the cause of many spiritual insights person receives - they werent actually debating me but other person.Well i dont really know how do they figure when they mostly dont study chiron themselves, you probably wouldnt know anything about patterns to chiron like this yod? Or what the quincunxes can signify - its sad but there are very few people that focus on chiron, so i have no internet sources to turn to.
Its weird but sometimes i could swear orbs this small are bit misleading..for instance, i have 6'50 opposition saturn - chiron. Saturn often signifies father, and solar fire interpretation for the aspect is that father could be overly strict or absent - the absence is exactly it. Maybe its better to be safe, but from what i heard the wider the orb, the more the person is aware of the aspect's impact on his life, the tighter the orb, the more subconsciouss the impact is. That would be also precise, because i was aware of this problem very often, while it took me alot of time to realize what the tight sun trine chiron symbolizes (that i actually keep transforming constantly, and mustnt stay locked in one view of myself. Took me two years of selfanalysis to figure that out).
On the other hand, and this is a fact, if you are aware of the impact, you dont really need astrologer to interpret for you :) so maybe its just as well.
I could also swear the very wide orbs give something of a "flavor" - i read the chiron conjunction ascendant description, and while most of it doesnt fit me, i stopped at the soul reflection eyes thing - few people that arent happy with myself can stay looking me right in eyes - and its not anything iam trying to do either, iam not scary person. Its like i remember them of part of themselves they'd rather forget. Could be something else in chart, perhaps, but it fits really close.
Sorry for the lenght, chiron is really my subject of interest lately - chart starts to make much more sense once you count the chiron aspects in, in my amateur opinion. -
-
Re: chiron
Thu, March 2, 2006 - 2:18 PMCorrection, what they really said is that chiron as apex of yod can force us to help others, understand them, and through that be led to heal them in the end.
And that it will be pretty hard lecture, since yod is usually viewed as karmic "finger of god" configuration.
The psychical abilities they actually connected to something different.. Zane, from your experience, should one look at chiron at all when looking for "spiritual gifts"? I guess neptune is traditional ruler of spirituality, but chiron sounds like, well, door or maybe really key to that area..if your spiritual development needs refinement through understanding and perhaps even pain, which is very common theme among "seekers of the path" (god i hate those dramatic terms).
Am i making some sense here? :) -
-
Re: chiron
Thu, March 2, 2006 - 9:41 PMAlan wrote, "Zane, from your experience, should one look at chiron at all when looking for "spiritual gifts"? I guess neptune is traditional ruler of spirituality, but chiron sounds like, well, door or maybe really key to that area..if your spiritual development needs refinement through understanding and perhaps even pain, which is very common theme among "seekers of the path" (god i hate those dramatic terms)"
Alan, I have found Chiron to show a person or a direction or path which will lead to healing; sometimes, a guru or wiseman/woman will be representeded by Chiron in your chart. And, since it also can give the ability to heal others, yes, I'd say it should be included in the 'spiritual gifts' category. -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: chiron
Thu, March 2, 2006 - 10:14 PMWOW!! Earlier I saw the MOON set is was BEAUTIFUL..
I just was out side for a few min. To gave up a bit. @ stars are twinkling like crazy. One is in between Orion’s feet about dead Center.
The other is ..Oh 20* to the left same height. Orange and blue & purple twinkles.
It’s stunning.
Wow Zane cool..I'll get um .. -
-
Re: chiron
Thu, March 2, 2006 - 11:07 PMChiron- Pisces 14.33* almost dead center.. that’s 4th H.
C. opp- Pluto 10* Virgo 10th H 6* orb.
C. opp- Mars 24* Virgo ?? 8* orb (just barely almost 9 Maybe don’t count.)
C. Trine-Sun 23* Cancer 9th H 8* orb (Almost 9*)
C Trine-Saturn 11* 8th H. 3* orb
C. Trine –Asc. 16* 2* orb
C. Trine Nep. 13* Scorp, 12th H 1½ * orb.
C. Trine Lilith 9* Scorp. 12th H 5* orb
The ?? for Mars dead on 10th 11th cusp line
I just noticed my (Sun and Mars) 0* orb.
Ceres & Juno a point of interest to me too.
Mars 24* Ceres 25.01 Juno 25.04
The Girls are over cheatin on Pluto w/ Mars..he he.
I like to think they are Mars’s harem..LOL
Might be something to this.. probably just my silly nature.
Anyway that 3some is all conj. Of course. And 2 sextiles Sun 0* orb.. Merc 4* orb.
Yikes Lilith has conj. 2 sex
Pholu 1-opp 1-conj. 1-sext 2 squ..
Vesta 1 trine.. but all that’s for another day…
Chart getting more complicated every day… Good thing too. I am an individual human be-in like every one else.
I would like to think theirs allways more than meets the eye..he he..I’m starting to get the math down too.
Well not expecting the Moon here, what ever ya got time for would be GREAT..
P.S. Oh ya
I thought about this today.
Lots of folks always talking about not having the greatest track record at relationship..
Well, If we were just simple people we would meet some one Get married and be happy all our lives….. BUT WERE NOT!! …..Shit…LOL -
-
Re: chiron
Fri, March 3, 2006 - 6:59 AMHi, DragonWire,
Chiron in Pisces:
"They have a personal imperative to feel that whatever they are involved in is THE truth, the important cause. They want to avoid involving themselves in anything that is not important, or not possible to achieve. In this last point, what qualifies “possible” is their evolutionary state for the evolved ones believe that nothing is impossible. They want to be truly universal in lifestyle, and so will go beyond their world to become more whole. They have a deep optimism that they can make the world a better place, although this can be curtailed severely by heavy Saturn aspects. They are almost all quite psychic, and full of dreams. But one of the major lessons they have to learn is to avoid falling for wrong causes. They have an overpowering need to express love."
Chiron in the 4th house:
"These people feel a very strong tie to humanity. They feel deeply inside that they share common roots with all mankind and therefore have something in common with all people. There is usually a powerful desire to uplift others either mentally, emotionally or spiritually, and there is a powerful sympathy with the “little man”, the common man, who can be victimized by larger groups and corporations. These people don’t want to start anything they feel might fail, for to them failure is failing mankind, not just themselves. The want to enlighten others, to build a world where everyone is treated equally, to bring joy to everyone they meet. But their powerful insecurity surfaces if they feel they have failed --- they “can’t fail!” If other things in the chart are unstable, this is a prime position for suicide when they feel they have failed. Also these people are extremely upset when things are going on without their knowledge, or when things are going on which exclude them, or exclude someone they know. Theirs is a deep feeling that the whole world is a family; this gives them a strong community spirit. There are two basic types: the extremely undervalued type, often shy, tense and nervous, whose fear of failure has kept him back somewhat; and the “tough under fire” type who receives great respect, is quite popular, and is comfortable being controversial. Both types like to work!
People with Chiron in the 4th:
Ken Kesey, Henry Lewis, Mickey Lolich, James Lovell, Marie McCarthy, Patricia Neal, William Rehnquist, Donna Summer, Helen Hayes, John Lindsay, Joan Baez, Carmen Delavallade, Bradford Dillman, David Carradine, Arthur Godfrey, Ernest Hemingway, Lenny Bruce, Herman Hesse, Oscar Wilde, Dr. Sam Sheppard, Albert Speer, Vincent Van Gogh, Paul Goebbels, Hal Holbrook, Elton John, Karl Krafft, Troy Perry, Clifford Odets, Zubin Mehta, Mark Goodson, Walt Disney, John Denver, Ralph Nader, Jerry Reed, Robert Kastenmeier, Toulouse-Lautrec, Bonnie Franklin, Red Skelton, John Voight"
I tend to give Chiron a 3 degree orb for major aspects, 5 degrees when the aspect is to the Sun or Moon.
Chiron trine Saturn:
"This aspect can make a difficult childhood because one of the parents continually surprised the child. Just when the child thought s/he knew what was expected of him/her, the authority symbol would pull a rabbit out of a hat, and the child would have to change his/her mental picture. This also meant that the child had to change his/her own self-image, and his/her concepts of his/her own limits. The surprises could be good or bad---but were surprises because they came in some area that the child had felt secure in taking for granted. This experience can bring about a number of possible results. For some, there seems to be a very shaky self-image because s/he looks for a parent s/he can rely upon as stable. In this case the person grows up with basic insecurity, and may feel that other people have ‘the answers’ but that s/he may never find them. For others, there will come a powerful desire to seek a totally unchanging parent figure, such as a guru, or religious leader, or even a strict God-figure, to model themselves after---so that they can once again relax, and take for granted what ‘should be.’ And for still others, the choice is to integrate the concept of change into the self-image, and even enjoy it. For these, the world opens up as a place to explore and self-discovery becomes a great pleasure. This path also usually leads to the ability to get along with those in power because of an inner understanding and sympathy with them.
EXAMPLES of people with Saturn trine Chiron:
Dean Martin, Jack Sheldon, Steve McQueen, Anthony Armstrong-Jones, David St. Clair, Arturo Toscanini, Ingrid Bergman, Paul Anderson, Richard Boone, Gwendolyn Brooks, Yvonne Burke, William Casper, Lawton Chiles, John Connally, Bradford Dillman, Robert Haack, Cardinal John Krol, Carol Lawrence, Katherine Graham, Gustave Dore, Edouard Manet, Ernest Boulanger, Pierre Loti, Maxime Weygand, Paul Claudel, Marie Curie, C.G. Jung, Paul Choisnard, Morganna King, Arthur Miller, Octave Mirbeau, Chet Baker, Clyde McPhatter, Donny Osmond, Herbie Mann, Lena Horne, Lyle Lovett, Odetta, Petula Clark, Richard Harris."
Chiron trine Neptune:
"This is another aspect in effect for many, many people. It is a little like the sextile. But, unlike that aspect, the trine gives the individual a tendency to take for granted that the dreams s/he dreams are ideals that will lead to a whole life, and may not be consciously aware of how important these dreams are. If the individual in childhood is allowed to dream and express the dreams, as an adult s/he will feel very comfortable exploring matters of alternate realities and ideals which could slowly change the world. On the other hand, if the person was told in childhood to stick to the real world, the dreams they take for granted will be just the dreams instilled in them by others. Check up on sign and house placements and you can see what sort of dreams the person feels will guide them truly to a whole, balanced life. Check other aspects---especially from Saturn, and you can often see if s/he is following his/her own dreams or those learned from others.
EXAMPLES of people with Chiron trine Neptune:
Hal Holbrook, Liberace, Robin Moore, Sam Peckinpah, Troy Perry, Ira Progolf, Peter Ustinov, Jonathan Winters, Carlos Castaneda, Dr. Tom Dooley, Philip Berrigan, William F. Buckley, John Michael Addey, Pope John Paul II, Edgar Degas, Walter Shirra, Yul Brynner, Melina Mercouri, Margaret Thatcher, Jimmy Carter, Howard Baker, James Blish, Doris Day, Alene Duerk, Stanley Hiller, Pauline Kael, Elizabeth Koontz, Sammy Lee, Patricia Neal, Shelly Winters, Gale Storm, John Stamos, Nancy McKeon, Benny Hill, James Beggs, Truman Capote, Sammy Davis Jr., Jack Lemmon, Gore Vidal, Daniel Berrigan, Marlon Brando, Lenny Bruce, Johnny Carson, Mick Jagger, Jack Kerouac, Paul Newman, Sidney Poitier, Bobby Stone, Leo Delibes, Jean-Paul Sartre, Simone de Beauvoir, H.G. Clouzot, Claude Levi-Strauss, Edmonde Charles-Roux, Valery Giscard d'Estaing, Maurice Bejart, B.B. King, Bobby Brown, Celine Dion, Charlie Parker, Chris DeGarmon, Doris Day, George Michael, Harry Belafonte, Jerry Cantrell, Joe McIntyre, Johnnie Ray, Jonathan Knight, Mel Torme, Paula Abdul, Sarah Vaughan, Scott Rockinfield, Sinead O'Connor, Stan Getz, Theodore Bikel, Vanessa Paradis, Whitney Houston, Wynonna Judd."
Chiron trine Ascendant:
"ANY aspect of Chiron to an angle makes Chiron more important in your chart. A trine enables you to use that angle to go around the rules, if need be Overall, keep in mind the basic imperative represented by Chiron’s sign and house position, and then view the aspect to the angle as the framework within which to sort out the lessons to be learned."
-
-
Re: chiron
Fri, March 3, 2006 - 7:27 AMAh, i didnt ask for house and sign, thats interesting as well. Your interpretations are very acurate Zane, most people dont really know how to interpret quincunx in natal, much less to chiron, And i must confirm everything seems to fit as close as general description allows.
All respect to you.
Could i ask for Chiron in Gemini 12th house interpretation?
Thanks alot, Alan
-
-
Re: chiron
Sat, March 4, 2006 - 5:46 PMAlan:
Chiron in Gemini:
High on the list of priorities with these people is, as you might suspect, communication. It is especially important for them to understand why there is a communication breakdown, or why there is an obstacle to communication, and to do everything to resolve the situation. Therefore these are the best people to have around as non-biased third parties in a dispute. The want very much to contact as many people as possible, and it hurts them if they are misunderstood. If they take up a cause, they can be quite fiery advocates. Learning is paramount to them, and they love to learn new ways of thinking, new ways of problem solving. They are always testing, testing, to see just what limitations their immediate environment puts on them, and on others.
Chiron in 12th House:
These people are experimenters and are multi-talented. They always have at least one goal to work on and an unlimited desire to learn and to increase the foundation of knowledge. Most especially, they want to learn of the hidden truths behind the apparent reality, to the point where they have a fear that some door will open to them when they are unprepared, so they feel that they must always try to learn as much as they can on every subject (to prepare them for anything they may uncover.) They have an interest in the past, and usually a talent for bringing things from the past into the present to make them once again serve a useful purpose. Almost always they have many projects going on at the same time so they are frequently in danger of overextending themselves. They usually have a very strong awareness of the unrealized potentials in both situations and people. Quite frequently they are known for their intellectual arrogance, and for the fact that they enjoy the role of dissenter. Yet it is quite common for them to not realize how they hinder themselves by holding maverick views. One of the most frequently experienced traits of this position is a tendency to not receive credit for things they have done, but at the same time they lack concern when this happens. There also exists a talent for “do-it-yourself” because often they cannot find anyone else to do what they want done. Most are moody. And most have a very strong awareness that the universe is filled with greater laws than those which are visible only through the five senses, and greater power than any which humans are capable of completely understanding.
People with Chiron in the 12th:
Francoise Gauquelin, Neil Armstrong, Arthur Janov, Frank James Dixon, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, Grigori Rasputin, Charles Richter, Al H. Morrison, Neil F. Michelsen, Noel Tyl, Richard Nolle, Kirk Oakes, Billy Graham, Toni Morrison, jean Stafford, Joan Didion, Leo Guild, Marcel Proust, James Blish, Walt Whitman, Robert Smithson, George Gershwin, Harry Belafonte, Harry Bertoia, Rockwell Kent, Ottorino Respighi, Miles Davis, Ron Ely, Robert Culp, Richard Crenna, Jim Backus, Sally Kellerman, Elizabeth Ashley, George Peppard, Jackie Gleason, Barbara Stanwyck, Audrey Hepburn, Dean Martin, Robert Taft, Jack Valenti, Patricia Harris, Francisco Franco, Jack Kemp, Brendan Byrne, Robert Kennedy, Willy Brandt, Linda Lovelace
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: chiron
Mon, March 6, 2006 - 9:44 AMHi Zane (and all),
This is my first post (on tribe) so I'm a newbie here, and I don't mean to be rude by just jumping in, but this thread really caught my eye because (among other things) you mention that an Aquarian should look at their Saturn/Uranus midpoint, and I never had before, and it turns out to conjunct my Chiron, which is 0 degree square my Sun. I didn't see an interpretation for a Chiron sq. Sun....is it, in your opinion, pretty similar to Chiron opposite Sun? My chart is in my photos if anyone is so inclined :)
PL -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, March 7, 2006 - 12:22 PMHi, Purple Lovage,
Chiron square Sun would be a little different than Chiron conjunct the Sun. Here is for the square:
This is a person who truly wants to change the world in some way, although s/he may or may not ever do anything about it. This urge stems from something very subjective---s/he has gone through at least one, but usually several major changes in the self-image and sense of purpose. Any Chiron square throws the other body off balance, and often, so that the person must make time to re-establish the balance. Once the Sun person has learned to leave a sense of ‘ultimate purpose’ open to change, and has learned that one's self-image must be allowed to adapt through new circumstances---s/he begins to thrill in self-discovery and in discovering more about the universe. At the same time this process goes on, s/he should begin to want to do something for the world in some way---correct an imbalance, open a door, teach, research. NOTE: Some people never do accept change---and are forced to cope with one disruption after another. If they continually fight the healing growth of Chiron, this aspect can become a symbol of feelings of persecution, as they nearly always see the disruptions as coming from external forces.
EXAMPLES of people with Sun square Chiron:
Dr. Tom Dooley, Rudolph Nureyev, Art Garfunkel, J.Edgar Hoover, Albert Dyer, Charles Gounod, Louis Pasteur, Frank Sinatra, Susan Hayward, Henry [Scoop] Jackson, Ross McDonald, Gay Talese, Edith Custer, Sibelius, Robert Holbrook Smith, Nancy Reagan, Fernand Leger, Jack London, Alphonse Daudet, Richard Wagner, Leo Delibes, Vincent Van Gogh, William B. Yeats, Douglas MacArthur, Pierre Curie, James Joyce, J.R.R. Tolkien, Francois Coli, Charles Boyer, Andre Bergeron, Francois Truffault, Jean-Marc Reiser, Steve Allen, David Carradine, John Lennon, Dean Martin, Ryan O'Neal, Vincent Price, John Travolta, Al Green, Billy Squier, Bobby McFerrin, Bobby Vinton, Bryan Adams, Buck Owens, Dickey Betts, Eddie Cochran, Gladys Knight, Grover Washington Jr, Joe McIntyre, Joe Perry, Lyle Lovett, Mary Wells, Naomi Judd, Nina Carter, Vanessa Paradis, Warren Zevon.
-
-
Re: chiron
Wed, March 22, 2006 - 10:04 PMHow can you find out where your chiron is located on your chart? -
-
Re: chiron
Wed, March 22, 2006 - 10:50 PMWell here.. go to www.astro.com
make a chart. in "extended chart selection" you can add it and other asteroids. also look around trasit charts ext.
You can also do the "astro click" you can get some stock aspect interpritations.
Have fun.
Dragon.
-
-
-
-
Unsu...
Re: chiron
Fri, March 3, 2006 - 10:26 AMZane, I have Chiron at 15 degrees Capricorn in the first house, with no aspects. I have nothing else in the first house, and in fact not much of anything besides my Moon in this lower half of my chart. And I've been told that the Chiron influence doesn't really begin to manifest until about age 52.
Comments? -
-
Re: chiron
Sat, March 4, 2006 - 6:00 PMMaenad,
I am not sure who mentioned that Chiron doesn't show it's influence until about age 52, but that is quite untrue in my experience. Chiron shows up quite early....especially noticable around the time transiting Chiron makes the first square to natal Chiron. (This varies greatly from sign to sign...as early as 5-1/2 years of age in Virgo, or as late as 23-1/2 in Aquarius.) At 50-1/2 years of age, approximately, a person has a Chiron return, and then Chiron takes on a new level of importance. Perhaps this is what the person was referring to.
An unaspected Chiron would indicate that it is more difficulty for you to consciously connect with your Chiron than for other people. One possibility is that you may have wounds that have been buried long ago, and you are not aware of them. In any event, the best way for you to understand your Chiron is to look back to when the Moon or planets progressed in conjunction or hard aspect to it, as well as when major planets transited it.
Chiron in Capricorn:
These people need to create some type of order or structure that will not fall apart when other things do and which, it is hoped, will function after they are gone. They need to feel that they are on THE right path for them, and they deeply believe there is one specific path they must find for themselves. They also believe this is true for others, that each person has a correct path for himself. The more evolved types believe that each person’s path is totally his own; the lesser types believe, once they find a path, that it is for everyone to follow. They hate anything that can sway them from their course and feel the same is true for others. They have a strong need to succeed at their unique path and they can’t stand failure.
Chiron in the 1st House:
This person orients himself to the universe in a way that goes beyond any particular path, established viewpoint or structured life-style. The first impression this person gives is that he cannot be categorized. He looks familiar sometimes, but you cannot put your finger on the reason. The eyes have a look about them as if the person were from another dimension, a stranger in a strange land. There is a refusal to let any obstacle interfere with the pursuit of his personal growth. If some such obstacle exists, he goes through it as if it did not, or tries to. Overcoming obstacles and resolving problems, in fact, is one way this person discovers himself. He believes he has something in common with everyone he meets and that all people should also have that belief. In the developed type there is a special knack for opening doors for others and a desire for all people to exist on the same level, thus a hatred of inequality. Unless there are serious aspects to the contrary, these people are dynamic, radiating energy, and tend to be quite disarming. Their integrity is usually beyond question (unless the rest of the chart drastically disagrees.) There is a strong “loner” quality to their personal lives, even though they may deal with people all the time. They often have the ability to get around the system, the unique ability to see beyond what others see, and often have a “wild” look in their eyes which makes them quite attractive.
People with 1st house Chiron:
Norman Mailer, Rollo May, Mercedes McCambridge, Dan Rather, John Scali, Mike Schmidt, Anne Tyler, Archie Griffin, John DeLorean, Uri Geller, Rex Harrison, R.D. Laing, Vincent Price, Burt Reynolds, Rennie Davis, Kareen Abdul-Jabbar, Gregg Allman, Vida Blue, James Arness, Steve McQueen, Wilt Chamberlain, Huey P. Long, James Stewart, Marshall Tito, Adelle Davis, Joseph Alioto, Rosie Greer, Pete Townshend, Sally Fields
-
-
Unsu...
Re: chiron
Thu, March 16, 2006 - 9:16 AMZane, I just rechecked my chart (and posted another one with all the asteroids included), and it looks like what I told you about my Chiron being unaspected isn't true - in fact, it looks like it is square my Sun (Chiron in Capricorn in the first house, square Sun in Virgo in the 9th). Does that affect your interpretation? I have to say that I still don't *feel* the Chiron energy in my chart and actually feel no affinity for Capricorn at all.
I don't see any comments in this thread about Chiron square Sun .
thanks
- maenad
-
-
Re: chiron
Thu, March 16, 2006 - 11:05 AMHi, maenad,
I have Chiron in Capricorn. I fell no affinity for Capricorn either, and it is my only Capricorn point. But Chiron in a sign does not express itself quite the way other planets do in the same sign. When I see Chiron as the only planet in a sign, I don't include it in the totals of fire/earth/air/water that that person has, or cardinal/fixed/mutable totals. Chiron doesn't add a Capricorn influence to your chart, but Capricorn has a Chiron force within it.
See if any of this resonates:
Chiron square the Sun:
This is a person who truly wants to change the world in some way, although s/he may or may not ever do anything about it. This urge stems from something very subjective---s/he has gone through at least one, but usually several major changes in the self-image and sense of purpose. Any Chiron square throws the other body off balance, and often, so that the person must make time to re-establish the balance. Once the Sun person has learned to leave a sense of ‘ultimate purpose’ open to change, and has learned that one's self-image must be allowed to adapt through new circumstances---s/he begins to thrill in self-discovery and in discovering more about the universe. At the same time this process goes on, s/he should begin to want to do something for the world in some way---correct an imbalance, open a door, teach, research. NOTE: Some people never do accept change---and are forced to cope with one disruption after another. If they continually fight the healing growth of Chiron, this aspect can become a symbol of feelings of persecution, as they nearly always see the disruptions as coming from external forces.
EXAMPLES of people with Sun square Chiron:
Dr. Tom Dooley, Rudolph Nureyev, Art Garfunkel, J.Edgar Hoover, Albert Dyer, Charles Gounod, Louis Pasteur, Frank Sinatra, Susan Hayward, Henry [Scoop] Jackson, Ross McDonald, Gay Talese, Edith Custer, Sibelius, Robert Holbrook Smith, Nancy Reagan, Fernand Leger, Jack London, Alphonse Daudet, Richard Wagner, Leo Delibes, Vincent Van Gogh, William B. Yeats, Douglas MacArthur, Pierre Curie, James Joyce, J.R.R. Tolkien, Francois Coli, Charles Boyer, Andre Bergeron, Francois Truffault, Jean-Marc Reiser, Steve Allen, David Carradine, John Lennon, Dean Martin, Ryan O'Neal, Vincent Price, John Travolta, Al Green, Billy Squier, Bobby McFerrin, Bobby Vinton, Bryan Adams, Buck Owens, Dickey Betts, Eddie Cochran, Gladys Knight, Grover Washington Jr, Joe McIntyre, Joe Perry, Lyle Lovett, Mary Wells, Naomi Judd, Nina Carter, Vanessa Paradis, Warren Zevon.
-
-
Re: chiron
Thu, March 16, 2006 - 2:49 PMThat article is fascinating..really, this clear's lot of thing's for me. My father is an psychoanalyst, the psychodynamic branch. I visit one analyst as well but what always didnt seem natural is that those people dont "try for best". They put problems down as "normal" and everything is so "normal" that one loses all motivation to be something more then "normal".
If humanistic psychology is the next step, integrating mind and body in strive for being whole, for being best one can be..it clears out why i understand and feel natural with my mother, who is rogerian therapist (humanistic branch) and partially works in esoterism..
I guess the world is really changing - what seemed as pinnacle of human mind to freud and jung is more like basic's nowadays, and transpersonal experience's are also more and more common.
Ok..being psychology student, i just cleared up which branch should i go for :) -
-
Re: chiron
Thu, March 16, 2006 - 3:01 PMBy the way Zane, i think i read somewhere in this thread that when chiron aspects planet that is in conjuction with other planet or angle, there's likelyhood of the energies creating a blend of aspects both planets receive?
For instance i have tight sun trine chiron and the sun is in wide 6'50 conjuction with jupiter and 6 with midheaven. Does that mean jupiter and midheaven receive trine-like chiron energy from their conjuct with sun? (both trine chiron as well, but with too wide orbs to count using your orbs limits). -
-
Re: chiron
Thu, March 16, 2006 - 6:19 PM{I like the 'electrical diagram' imagry. And it goes in a way with my theory that Chiron was captured by our solar system around the time of the first human being. I imagine an atom, which is elevated to a higher state of activity when a new electron is added to it.... }
I think that’s why it should be givin its due.
This brings to mind a Sci-Fi theme I've seen in a few places. The Movie "The Matrix" used it. The scene w/ "The Smith" and “Morpheus” Agent Elrond my family call him lol.
Anyway the humans as a virus on the earth. I love the speech, well done.
Till we arrived this body was healthy, now look what we have done to its outer layer.
So the “Wounded healer” Fits us humans don’t you think??
Thanx much for the meanings. I’m going to read later after I eat.
Dragon.
-
Re: chiron
Thu, March 23, 2006 - 6:47 AMAlan,
One of the things that is often overlooked is the fact that if a body is in conjunction with another body, there is a union of their natures, and neither one can act without the other being involved.
With that in mind: if you have Sun conjunct Jupiter, then the two are always connected. While not as intensely as a closer conjunction, it is still the case that you do not express your Sun without some Jupiter energy being involved, and visa versa. So, while Chiron may not be ordinarily considered trine your Jupiter by degree, in this case your Jupiter does receive some of the energy of the trine through its contact with the Sun.
Imagine it is a very hot day. You share a 2 bedroom apartment with a good friend. Your friend decides to buy an air conditioner for his bedroom, which wonderfully cools it off. But he also leaves his bedroom door open, so that the cool air goes into the hall, cooling it down, and (if you leave your bedroom door open), lowers your room temperature a bit too. Your friend is the Sun, the air conditioner is Chiron. You are Jupiter, and because you are close to your friend, you experience some of the benefits from the trine that he has.
(Don't take the above too literally. The poor air conditioner would be working way, way too hard in the real world if it had to cool his room, the hallway, and your room. lol) -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: chiron
Thu, March 23, 2006 - 8:21 AMThat makes lot of sense. So practically, anything aspecting either my sun, jupiter or MC is making same but weaker aspect to the rest.
Which means people with stelliums aspected really have long list of aspects to go through :)
Could i ask for chiron trine jupiter and chiron trine midheaven explanations? Sorry to bother you all the time but of all the astrological information i read, chiron is really fascinating subject. It's a pitty your book isnt aviable as paperback anymore, i always prefered good old book to monitor, but iam looking forward to buying one when i have little money spare.
By the way how did you gather so detailed information on the aspects (more detailed and precise then lot of traditional planets aspects i read i must say). Did you study lot of people with different chiron aspects, noticing similiarities? -
-
Re: chiron
Thu, March 23, 2006 - 10:19 AMAlan,
When I first began studying Chiron (weeks after it was discovered, before it was actually given a name), I began putting Chiron into chart after chart. Once it was officially named, I organized a group (which eventually had a newsletter, and became international) for the purpose of studying Chiron....and members began submitting their findings on Chiron to me. Most of these findings, as well as theories, were put into the newsletter and sent out to all the members, which in turn spurred further research. So it was a combination of things that led to my findings of Chiron in the aspects.
Chiron trine Jupiter:
There is a lot in common between this aspect and the sextile between these two planets.
(Sextile: People who have this aspect really make you stop and think. They are capable of coming up with insights about you, about humanity, or about life in general, that are remarkable for clarity and accuracy. They have the ability to tune in to the ‘flavor’ and interests of a particular time and interpret them as a part of a larger picture. Depending on the level of evolution of the individual---and also depending upon the culture they are living in, they can interpret the positive, uplifting aspects, or the negative, depressing aspects.)
With the trine, it seems initially that it is "easier" to fall into the negative tendencies, especially the tendency to control or manipulate others. Of course, this is NOT necessary---and many individuals rise above this trait. But it is a hazard here. Part of the problem lies in the early years of life. The person has experiences---both good and bad---that force revision of the belief system. The experiences come from the most unexpected directions---from areas where s/he assumed s/he knew pretty much all there was to know. These experiences made the person learn much, quickly, about other people, and what makes them tick---and what others believe. S/he frequently gets remarkable insights, too often taking them for granted after a while. In this there is a hazard---by taking insights for granted, s/he tends to feel free to use these insights any way s/he wants. Such a person needs a lot of guidance, at least initially, in using insights to help others. On a more positive note, s/he is able to catch even the smallest nuance of any situation, or of a person’s behavior, and make good use of what is perceived. In the arts, or communication, s/he can use this ability to make others see themselves or some very specific aspect of themselves.
EXAMPLES of people with Jupiter trine Chiron:
Henry Mancini, Vincent Price, Peter Hurkos, Marion Brando, Leo Guild, Giacomo Puccini, Lucille Ball, Mao Tse-tung, Governor Brendan Byrne, Alene Duerk, Stanley Miller, Jack Kemp, Kenneth Noland, Cathy Rigby, Ron Ely, Prince, Arthur Koestler, Dag Hammarskjold, Arthur Conan Doyle, Louis de Broglie, Edmonde Charles-Roux, Jean-Paul Sartre, Marc Chagall, Octave Mirbeau, Bill Withers, Chaka Khan, Charlie Parker, Doris Day, Duane Eddy, Linnea Quigley, Prince, Sarah Vaughan, Theodore Bikel.
As for the trine to the MC:
ANY aspect of Chiron to an angle makes Chiron more important in your chart; ; a trine enables you to use that angle to go around the rules, if need be.
-
-
-
-
-
Unsu...
Re: chiron
Thu, March 16, 2006 - 9:09 PMThat does resonate, Zane. Luckily, I have never been averse to change! Thanks.
-
-
-
-
-
Re: chiron
Mon, March 6, 2006 - 10:08 AMDear Zane -
"...Aquarius: The personal imperative for these people can be summed up in two words --- The Future. They have the souls of the Bohemians --- free souls --- and have a great deal of sympathy for those who stand out."
Right on! I have Chiron conjunct Venus in Aquarius in the fifth house, in opposion to Uranus in Leo. Definitely a free spirit and bohemian at heart. I seem to recall Barbara Hand Clow indicating that its a tantric aspect, something to do with 'fucking ones way to enlightenment', surely she didn't put it that way. I do second the notion though, from having observed this dynamic not just in my own life, but also in other peoples charts. Melanie Reinhard also wrote a book on the topic, she seems to relate Chiron/Venus to sexual wounding... My daugther Julie, now 19 has this aspect in Gemini.
Do you have any wise words for me, or a handy paragraph to drop in here?
Much love to you, and please, do keep up your excellent work -
Lola B.
www.sexpeace.net -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, March 7, 2006 - 11:33 AMJust wondering Zane, did you study effects of chiron in aspect patterns as yod and t-square? I have my chiron as part of t-square moon-saturn-chiron. Moon is apex, the opposition orb is kind of wide, 6'50, but i more or less match the chiron opposition saturn describtion, so i think i have at last some energy going there.
Also chiron is apex of yod with very wide orbs. I know what T-squares and Yod's represent, but is there anything specific to chiron what we should consider when trying to interpret such pattern with chiron involved? -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, March 7, 2006 - 11:41 AMAnd, well, i dont really expect to get affirmative answer, but any ideas about black moon lilith aspects to chiron? I have sextile to chiron and am little bit curious.
-
Re: chiron
Tue, March 7, 2006 - 12:37 PMHi, Alan,
I also have Chiron in a T-square. Chiron at 0 Capricorn, opposition Sun in late Gemini, both square Saturn in late Virgo.
Chiron as part of a T-square, or one of the oppositions in a grand square, has shown up time and again as an indication that there is some very real pain a person carries that shapes their actions, shapes their direction. No real growth will be accomplished, and neither will the person be able to utilize the full energy of the other planets in the aspect pattern, unless they are consciously willing to feel the pain rather than push it aside or repress it. And, as anything with Chiron, there is an ability to help others with similar pains, once a person can accept that they must work through it.
But I find the hard aspects to Chiron to be rather different than normal hard aspects, in many ways:
Chiron square a planet:
SQUARE: This never produces stagnation, like other squares. On the contrary: ordinarily a planet tends to get into a rut, get set in its ways, but Chiron only lets this go on so long. Then it “pulls the rug out from under you,” and you are thrown off balance. You may end up falling down, but if you do, you will find that you have stumbled upon something really valuable that had been hidden from you before. (Perhaps there were diamonds under that rug, but you did not find them until the rug was removed and you fell upon them.) Anyway, when Chiron throws you of balance, you have to learn to adapt, must learn to change. Until one learns this, it seems that the planet goes back and forth to extremes, as the person must balance and rebalance. Once he learns that change is necessary for the growth of this planet, he welcomes change. In some people, a danger surfaces at this point: some people begin to thrill in change and new experiences so much that they live for them. These people must learn a new lesson: to welcome change, but it is not the end, only one part of the path.
Chiron opposition a planet:
A need to go beyond ordinary methods of doing things because the person cannot help perceiving alternate methods. However, there is often difficulty working within any structures, because the person sees so many alternatives. (One lesson here is: just because the alternatives exist doesn’t mean one has to choose them.) This is an aspect that brings challenges from Chiron’s house to the planet which said planet cannot ignore. It brings out the “fighting spirit” in the planet, or at least, a constant need to keep that planet active.
-
-
Re: chiron
Tue, March 7, 2006 - 12:26 PMHi, Lola,
I would rather not discuss Barbara Hand Clow's writings, as I have some personal issues with them. Melanie Reinhart, however, I find, will often zero in on some very significant points in her writings, and I would recommend her to other astrologers.
Chiron conjunct Venus:
This aspect can express itself in a number of different ways. It gives, potentially, a great deal of love which comes spontaneously forth from the native as a real healing influence, giving most to those most in need. Here there can be a danger in that many people with this aspect are vulnerable to being easily hurt---their love is given without strings or expectations, without any defenses at all. It is, potentially, a very idealistic position. To quote from a popular song, ‘The world was not made for one as beautiful as you.’ If the aspect expresses itself this way, the native must be taught what the world is like, now, so s/he can deal with it realistically, and still give out love.
Another expression of Venus conjunct Chiron is a life quest for what is real, valuable, truly worthwhile in life---a quest for true beauty and value. This can lead the person to disregard society’s values, or to try to select what is worthwhile out of all the fake values around. In this approach, s/he may acquire a set of personal values that does not quite fit with those of other people. Depending on the rest of the chart, s/he may keep this secret, or flaunt it. The special personal values are there, no matter whether hidden or displayed. Another expression of this aspect is a desire to understand what makes the real world tick---the laws governing material things. It is an excellent aspect for a scientist, for it seems that Venus is not passive when in this aspect---Chiron is trying to uncover as much about Venus as it can.
EXAMPLES of people with Venus conjunct Chiron:
Francoise Gauquelin, Henry Winkler, Alan Ginsberg, Linda Blair, Hector Berlioz, A.E. Housman, Lloyd Bentsen, Bradford Dillman, Orville Freeman, John Sawhill, Raquel Welch, Bela Bartok, Al Jardine, Mama Cass Elliot, Teilhard de Chardin, Simone de Beauvoir, Edmonde Charles-Roux, Marilyn Monroe, Jacques Brel, Laurent Fabius, Morgana King, Barbara Mandrell, Bobby Brown, Dion DiMucci, Grandmaster Flash, Herbie Mann.
Chiron in the Fifth House:
These people want to be exclusively what they are; they don’t want their creativity to be influenced by anyone else. They tend to be uninhibited and temperamental, and there is frequently an “anything goes” attitude in the way they express themselves. The less evolved types have reputations for loose morals or as playboy types. No rules govern their creativity, and their style is totally their own. These people have a certain something that lives on after they die. There is something so totally unique about them that people know who you are talking about when you mention this quality, mannerism or creation. These people have major lessons to learn through children and/or lovers, and these lessons will change their whole life-style, once learned. They often add a whole new career after pursuing one career for many years, yet frequently keep the old one as well. They have a strong competitive streak, lots of enthusiasm for their field, and if they need to train for something they train hard. Many are known for their sharp or caustic wit. There is often a strong bent toward trying to create a totally realistic style. They are true defenders of self-expression and freedom of thought, unless other things point to the contrary.
People with Chiron in the 5th:
Earth Kitt, George Lucas, Ross McDonald, Burgess Meredith, Kenneth Patchen, Valerie Perrine, Richard Pryor, Philip Roth, Shirely Temple-Black, Sarah Vaughan, Merle haggard, Jules Lenier, Oscar Levant, Henry Miller, Chris Reeves, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Phoebe Snow, Ringo Starr, Simon Wiesenthal, Jacques Cousteau, John Derek, Barbara Streisand, Pierre Renoir, Bertrand Russell, Jean Harlow, Frank Sinatra, Melina Mercouri, Maria Callas, Tyrone Power, Rock Hudson, Robert Goulet, Art Arfons, Groucho Marx, Ruth Buzzi -
-
Re: chiron conjunct venus
Wed, March 15, 2006 - 1:49 PMThanks Zane -
that really hits home big time. =)
And the mercury ret/serendipity just opened this thread in the middle, right on your reply from last week. I always appreciate your insightful posts and comments. Astrology is such a vast and multifaceted field, it's fun to have a tribe for bouncing ideas and revelations off each other.
Sending some california sunshine your way, lots of love to you and yours, many blessings
Lola B.
www.sexpeace.net
-
-
Re: chiron conjunct venus
Wed, March 15, 2006 - 6:57 PMThanks Guys,,
Take a peek, it’s the “All the lines” on my page..
When I put these points together in my head I see Something that tells me this IS something strong in my life. I should check the Orbs to see if they fit your criteria, But what’s the dif.
When I think of
Outer self,(acs) my hidden self (nep ) one point of 2 triangles
Then my inner self(sun) my need for love (Venus) 2nd point ,
This body in “Pisces” Chiron?? 3rd point.
All 3 water signs. Sniff sniff… This Body opposes both Pluto, Mars 10th house. My outer (get some were) Power. I can see something.. Yes this force is what stops me from my Goals of Career ,Art, love and leaves my inner self wanting. WHAT?
This and Saturn IC representative. Is my goal at the moment.
If you are going into battle, You need to give the enemy a Name. Then figure out how to turn it into your friend.
Huuuum
Ok who is this Body. My own personal martyr?? Oh poor me,,,
Ok fuck that…
Dragon needs to breath some FIRE.. Wish I had a bit.. …Oh yes.. I do…. Aries in LEO’s House.
Interesting language you guys have.
-
-
-
-
Unsu...
Re: chiron
Tue, March 7, 2006 - 12:35 PMAt risk of sounding completely newbie... how do I find where Chiron is in my chart?! Could you assist me in finding it? heehee... thanks!!
<3m -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, March 7, 2006 - 12:39 PMmelissa, if you have your chart calculated at www.astro.com it will include Chiron.
Or if you prefer I can look it up for you. -
-
Unsu...
Re: chiron
Tue, March 7, 2006 - 12:48 PMWow, astro.com gives alot of different options for charts.... will I see it in my natal chart, or do I need to be looking at a more specific version of my chart?? Thanks so much!
Zane, If you don't mind, I'd appreciate your input, I get lost pretty quickly with this... I can't wait until I can understand more easily => -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, March 7, 2006 - 12:51 PMmelissa, it should be listed among the planets in your chart.
-
-
-
-
Unsu...
Re: chiron
Tue, March 7, 2006 - 12:37 PMAt rsk of sounding totally newbie-ish... how do I find out where chiron is in my chart?! heehee.. Would you mind assisting me in finding it? Thanks! <3m
-
-
Re: chiron
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 2:24 PMI guess my chiron sign is in Pisces. Not that I know much about Astrology as of the moment (I found out on the net anyways...)
I hath a suspicion that is why I am of shattered faith (i.e. ex-Christian.) I really had to question exactly what merit that belief had considering the overall ignorance and hypocrisy of the proponants. Supposedly a religion of love that perplexably encourages hate and war... Of course I turned 'pagan' (for want of another term.) Of course now my beliefs seem to be a cross between Asatru and Santeria... -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 6:37 PMhi zane! ^_^
whats interesting by reading all the chiron is that... i see a strong glimpse of me in every one of those signs...
would you be kind in explaining this?
thank you
-
-
Re: chiron
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 6:41 PMwell, there could be several reasons, monkey fist.
The most probable, to me, would be that your Chiron is very strong, and so you identify with the chironic element.
Another possibility, although I don't think this is the case, is that you are reading into it. When I was a psychology major, I had to change to another major...because I kept seeing myself in every set of symptoms for every condition I studied! Projection.
-
-
Re: chiron
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 7:07 PMwhat does it mean when one has "strong chiron?" -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 7:13 PMstrong chiron...one that makes a lot of close aspects in your chart, or is very angular....such as conjunct the Ascendant, or conjunct the MC. Or one that is in very close conjunction with a major body like your Sun or Moon.
-
-
-
Re: chiron
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 7:34 PMYou have Chiron sextile your Mars, sextile your Ascendant, trine your Moon, quincunx your Venus, and sequiquadrate your Sun.
I'd say you have a strong Chiron, monkey fist -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 7:36 PMhold up here...
does this mean i possess the power of grey skull??????
HEEEEEEEEE MAAAAAAAAAAAN!
heh* -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: chiron
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 7:53 PMLOL!
Nah. It's only the force, Luke. Beware the dark side. -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 8:02 PMohhhhh...
me like dark stuff
hehehe
thanks for the insights... thank you -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, May 10, 2005 - 10:52 PMHi Zane,
Thank you for your generous help with this tribe. You are like the big daddy. Anyway, I would be interested in your insights into my chart. I guess i could give you my chart (10/01/1970, 8:07am, Athens Ohio). First of all I have Chiron in 8 degrees Aries opposite a 7 Sun Conjunct 9 Uranus in Libra. You could say i identify with the wounded healer. Also, what do you think of Melanie Reinhart's book, Chiron and the Healing Journey? Hopefully we can read yours some time.
Ko -
-
Re: chiron
Wed, May 11, 2005 - 6:54 PMHi, Kebo,
Big Daddy, eh? At 5'4" tall, always dreamed of being called a Big Daddy for some reason. LOL
OK, Chiron opposition Uranus is a generational thing, but since your Sun is conjunct Uranus, you will be intimately involved with Uranus your whole life.
So for that reason, let me go into the Chiron/Uranus opposition:
This opposition seems to tie into the ever-quickening pace of scientific breakthroughs that began in the early 1950’s. Actually, one of the problems is that science is making discoveries faster than they can be integrated into society ---even faster than proper safeguards can be devised for our protection from side-effects and from the discoveries themselves. This same ‘vibration’ seems to be part of the nature of individuals who have this aspect. There is a thirst for the new, for discovery, for experiences, that often outweighs the taking of any precautions. This is especially true when the opposition is prominent in the chart. You dare not try to curtail the freedom of such an individual---the consequences are not pleasant. The urge for independence in such a native is so strong---especially if the aspect is prominent---that s/he frequently has trouble in relationships. S/he needs a relationship with someone who will give him/her ‘their own space.’ It is difficult to find someone sufficiently secure to give a partner that much freedom. It seems that these people are always so full of life, and spirit---they may be down, but never for long.
There are a lot of books out there that give descriptions of Sun conjunct Uranus, so I won't say much about it other than the fact that it makes you in many ways a revolutionary, or iconoclast....someone who does not quite fit in, but who has the potential for being a real groundbreaker.
Chiron opposition Sun:
Here is a fighter. The person perceives someone or something that needs change or beating, and will not stop until s/he has won. Of course, it may not be simply a physical fight---although this can be one expression. It seems s/he is always ready to take up some banner, fight for some cause. In the more evolved types, the causes are quite often the betterment of the human species: the enemy is disease, hunger, dictatorships or something along those lines. In any event, s/he is always competitive, and feels more alive when responding to a challenge or offering a challenge to someone else. As you might expect, people with this aspect make their share of enemies in life, yet most of their enemies grow to respect them. These are almost always people with strong principles, which they will not sacrifice simply to appease another. Other people are very important to those who have this aspect, usually, because aside from the need to compete or to fight, these people are also in constant need for more feedback---another viewpoint---another idea.
One of my favorite Sun opp Chiron people was astrologer Dane Rudhyar. A few others, to give you a feel for the aspect, include Mark Twain, Melina Mercouri, and Madonna.
Melanie is a friend of mine. A very good astrologer, but her books are sometimes a bit abstract rather than down to earth. I definitely would suggest reading her stuff, just don't expect a book focusing on practical everyday interpretations. -
-
Re: chiron
Wed, May 11, 2005 - 7:57 PMZane,
Can we conclude then that this CHIRON-URANUS OPPOSITION, which seems to have effected everyone born from roughly 1953 to 1966, helped make this time period an era of do your own thing, seek out new experiences, and let it all hang out. -
-
Re: chiron
Thu, May 12, 2005 - 7:06 AMI think that is right on the mark, Aleksonder.
-
-
Re: chiron
Thu, May 12, 2005 - 2:40 AMZane -
If I started three years ago, I couldn't thank you enough. Yeah, I had an epiphany. Years ago, I decided I no longer wanted to fight -- I wanted a life of peace. Now, I see I was denying something that is intergral to my selfhood. This is not to say things have been all peaceful, but this is to say trying NOT to fight has brought so many fights to my doorstep that I would then punish myself for not adhering to the life I wanted.
In conjunction with chiron conjunt Jupiter and the retrograde aspect of my natal Jupiter (which means the expansiveness is turned inward) I can see how I set myself up to this moment right here and right now.
Also, I am going through my Saturn Return. I have researched all the aspects to my Saturn to give me an idea... and this one elluded me. Having it, I understand although I need to read through it six billion more times and see if I can find more information (doubtful) as this is probably one of the biggest and hardest lessons and something I am actually staring in the face right now.
You've helped me more than you could ever know. I am in your debt. -
-
chiron square mercury and venus?
Thu, May 12, 2005 - 11:39 AMhey zane, while we're talking aspects and such, and you seem to be on a roll, what do you make of chiron (8th house aries) squared to mercury (aquarius) and venus (capricorn) both cusping signs, squarely in the 5th house.
I appreciate your input, and have gleaned a lot of info I never had before from your previous comments (I'm also one of those with chiron conjunct jupiter, so am learning to learn in my way).
mahalo.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: chiron
Wed, March 1, 2006 - 2:14 PMPluto is ripping into my GC Chiron conjunct Asc. and I've noticed I've been writing a prodigious quantity of real soul-rippers, digging deep into my primal wounds and coming up with strong, bitter images, for the past several days. In my natal chart, Chiron is also trine my nodes, square (cross-sign) my Moon conjunct Saturn, and trine Pluto. I feel not so much the wounded healer as deeply wounded for a purpose I am working to divine. It often seems so surreal because the wounds are internal and invisible, and hard to define, but palpable to the point of agony.
-
-
-
-
-
Re: chiron
Thu, May 12, 2005 - 3:42 PMHey Zane,
nice info here. But can you clarify this exchange..
"Zane,
"Can we conclude then that this CHIRON-URANUS OPPOSITION, which seems to have effected everyone born from roughly 1953 to 1966, helped make this time period an era of do your own thing, seek out new experiences, and let it all hang out. "
I think that is right on the mark.., "
Surely, you do not mean EVERYONE born during that time has these traits,.. there were equally conservative values under the surface, etc.
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that this Chiron / Uranus opposition created an inner revolutionary spirit that allowed for a break in cultural convention, etc. rather than affecting EVERYONE born..?
There is really nothing (short of breath and death) that happens to EVERYONE.. methinks -
-
Re: chiron
Thu, May 12, 2005 - 9:02 PMSam,
The Chiron Uranus opposition had an influence on everyone during that period.
The time was an era of do your own thing, seeking out new experiences, and letting it hang out.
However, not everyone was influenced in this particular manner.
I was agreeing that the opposition influenced everyone, and also agreeing that the nature of the era was the way he described it.
Another factor in the opposition was polarization. As some people 'let it all hang out', others went in the opposite direction, dug in their heals.
So we remember the sixties both for letting it all hang out, and also for the dichotomies....pro- and anti- war, for example.
Zane -
-
If more precision is desired...
Thu, May 12, 2005 - 9:31 PMThe period might even extend before 1953 and go until around 1969. I wasn't using an ephemeris when I made the remark, since mine doesn't include Chiron. Perhaps Zane can make a more precise calculation when Chiron and Uranus had the opposition with a ±5 degree tolerance. -
-
Re: If more precision is desired...
Thu, May 12, 2005 - 9:46 PMActually, Chiron and Uranus were in opposition for many more years. There were two oppositions in 1952, but for most of that year they were out of opposition. And the period should actually extend up to 1989, not 1969.
What is more intriguing to me, however, is that, when Chiron Squared Uranus...it only happened once....October 10, 1997.
Here are the dates of all the exact oppositions. All times are Eastern Standard Time.
(Thu) 2/21/1952 9:57pm Uranus [Can] Opp (Cap) Chiron
(Fri) 5/23/1952 1:30pm Uranus (Can) Opp [Cap] Chiron
(Fri) 1/23/1953 9:14am Uranus [Can] Opp (Cap) Chiron
(Sun) 7/ 5/1953 6:36pm Uranus (Can) Opp [Cap] Chiron
(Mon) 1/ 4/1954 7:44pm Uranus [Can] Opp (Cap) Chiron
(Sat) 8/ 7/1954 2:20pm Uranus (Can) Opp [Cap] Chiron
(Mon) 12/20/1954 12:03pm Uranus [Can] Opp (Cap) Chiron
(Tue) 9/ 6/1955 9:20am Uranus (Leo) Opp [Aqu] Chiron
(Mon) 12/ 5/1955 5:10pm Uranus [Leo] Opp (Aqu) Chiron
(Mon) 10/ 8/1956 10:49am Uranus (Leo) Opp [Aqu] Chiron
(Thu) 11/15/1956 4:47am Uranus [Leo] Opp (Aqu) Chiron
(Fri) 11/13/1964 6:15am Uranus (Vir) Opp [Pis] Chiron
(Thu) 12/31/1964 10:24am Uranus [Vir] Opp (Pis) Chiron
(Mon) 11/ 1/1965 12:43am Uranus (Vir) Opp [Pis] Chiron
(Sat) 1/22/1966 4:31am Uranus [Vir] Opp (Pis) Chiron
(Sat) 10/22/1966 11:17pm Uranus (Vir) Opp [Pis] Chiron
(Thu) 2/ 9/1967 5:01pm Uranus [Vir] Opp (Pis) Chiron
(Sun) 10/15/1967 12:51am Uranus (Vir) Opp [Pis] Chiron
(Tue) 2/27/1968 2:17am Uranus [Vir] Opp (Pis) Chiron
(Sun) 10/ 6/1968 2:08pm Uranus (Lib) Opp [Ari] Chiron
(Sat) 3/15/1969 1:06am Uranus [Lib] Opp (Ari) Chiron
(Mon) 9/29/1969 7:09am Uranus (Lib) Opp [Ari] Chiron
(Tue) 3/31/1970 10:41pm Uranus [Lib] Opp (Ari) Chiron
(Mon) 9/21/1970 10:22pm Uranus (Lib) Opp [Ari] Chiron
(Sun) 4/18/1971 2:54am Uranus [Lib] Opp (Ari) Chiron
(Tue) 9/14/1971 5:39am Uranus (Lib) Opp [Ari] Chiron
(Fri) 5/ 5/1972 12:13am Uranus [Lib] Opp (Ari) Chiron
(Mon) 9/ 4/1972 8:01pm Uranus (Lib) Opp [Ari] Chiron
(Thu) 5/24/1973 9:06am Uranus [Lib] Opp (Ari) Chiron
(Sat) 8/25/1973 11:55pm Uranus (Lib) Opp [Ari] Chiron
(Sun) 6/16/1974 1:27pm Uranus [Lib] Opp (Ari) Chiron
(Mon) 8/12/1974 9:36am Uranus (Lib) Opp [Ari] Chiron
(Sat) 8/17/1985 5:31am Uranus [Sag] Opp (Gem) Chiron
(Mon) 9/30/1985 8:38pm Uranus (Sag) Opp [Gem] Chiron
(Wed) 7/23/1986 10:28am Uranus [Sag] Opp (Gem) Chiron
(Fri) 11/ 7/1986 7:20pm Uranus (Sag) Opp [Gem] Chiron
(Sat) 7/ 4/1987 3:50pm Uranus [Sag] Opp (Gem) Chiron
(Fri) 12/11/1987 8:05am Uranus (Sag) Opp [Gem] Chiron
(Mon) 6/13/1988 5:58pm Uranus [Sag] Opp (Gem) Chiron
(Wed) 1/18/1989 7:57am Uranus (Cap) Opp [Can] Chiron
(Thu) 5/18/1989 9:44am Uranus [Cap] Opp (Can) Chiron
-
-
-
-
-
Re: chiron
Sat, March 4, 2006 - 8:28 PMMD,
An unaspected Chiron would indicate that it is more difficulty for you to consciously connect with your Chiron than for other people. One possibility is that you may have wounds that have been buried long ago, and you are not aware of them. In any event, the best way for you to understand your Chiron is to look back to when the Moon or planets progressed in conjunction or hard aspect to it, as well as when major planets transited it. -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, March 7, 2006 - 12:27 PMHello Zane,
Thanks for the great Chiron Info. I have Chiron in my Sun sign of Pisces in the 8th and have always felt that Chiron has a lot of influence in my chart. The Sun also rules my chart with Leo rising. Does this make a Chiron placed in my Sun sign more…ummm…. interesting?
I looked through the posts and found the following for my Pisces Chiron as well as the Chiron conjunct Mercury(5 degrees/8th house Pisces), and trine Neptune (2 degrees in 4th house/Scorpio). I am trying to blend all of these energies so that I can understand them a little better, but would appreciate some insight into a couple other aspects so I can have the whole picture. I understand if you don’t have the time.
I have Chiron Squaring my North Node & South Node(2 degrees), Inconjunct my AC (1 degree), Semi-sextile DC (1 degree), Sextile Jupiter (2 degrees), Opposing Mars (4) and the generational opposing Pluto(2), Uranus(4). Thoughts?
Kim
Noted from the above posts:
Chiron in Pisces:
"They have a personal imperative to feel that whatever they are involved in is THE truth, the important cause. They want to avoid involving themselves in anything that is not important, or not possible to achieve. In this last point, what qualifies “possible” is their evolutionary state for the evolved ones believe that nothing is impossible. They want to be truly universal in lifestyle, and so will go beyond their world to become more whole. They have a deep optimism that they can make the world a better place, although this can be curtailed severely by heavy Saturn aspects. They are almost all quite psychic, and full of dreams. But one of the major lessons they have to learn is to avoid falling for wrong causes. They have an overpowering need to express love
Chiron trine Neptune:
"This is another aspect in effect for many, many people. It is a little like the sextile. But, unlike that aspect, the trine gives the individual a tendency to take for granted that the dreams s/he dreams are ideals that will lead to a whole life, and may not be consciously aware of how important these dreams are. If the individual in childhood is allowed to dream and express the dreams, as an adult s/he will feel very comfortable exploring matters of alternate realities and ideals which could slowly change the world. On the other hand, if the person was told in childhood to stick to the real world, the dreams they take for granted will be just the dreams instilled in them by others. Check up on sign and house placements and you can see what sort of dreams the person feels will guide them truly to a whole, balanced life. Check other aspects---especially from Saturn, and you can often see if s/he is following his/her own dreams or those learned from others.
Chiron conjunct Mercury: “While Mercury is usually looked at as being simply the logical mind, you will find that people with this conjunction have added concern for others into their thinking processes. It would take a drastically negative chart to really suppress this concern, although, in truth, other aspects can also serve to twist or pervert it into something else. These people usually comprehend how the average person thinks, and reach such people with their words and ideas. But, even more, they can think on many different levels, and thus reach many different sorts of people. They are not restricted to simple verbal communication or written words. Chiron takes Mercury out beyond its normal realm, enabling these natives to communicate on many non-verbal levels. Perhaps it is because their minds go places Mercury ordinarily doesn’t go, but these people are truly original thinkers, coming up with ideas that seem farfetched, yet work wonderfully. They seldom overlook some piece of the puzzle because it is too small, or apparently insignificant. It is often such a piece that changes everything. Because their minds are not limited by convention, they can be quite controversial, but well worth attention. [In truth, it is difficult to ignore them, although you may not agree with them, or even like what they are saying]. These are the people to consult when you are blocked and need to find some way out---they can find the loophole, or think of a way to open the door for you”
-
-
Re: chiron
Tue, March 7, 2006 - 12:50 PMHi, Kim,
Anything close to the Sun takes on more importance in a person's life. And even moreso, I'd say, if Leo is rising, because then it also helps to shape your outlook, and the first impression others have when they meet you.
Lots of Chiron aspects in your chart, but let's see what I can find on them. The more aspects you have to Chiron, the more important it will be for you to integrate its energies in your life. I've found that people with a lot of Chiron aspects almost always profit from finding a mentor, or guide, that they can go to to learn from, rather than trying to go solo.
Chiron square nodes:
Like Donna Van Toen, I feel that the North Node point of growth, a point of untapped potential . . . To get at this potential you have to work darned hard. The South Node is where you've come from, so to speak. Chiron square the nodes indicates that many of the lessons of your past will be invaluable in your future growth, and that you need to seek out ways to bridge the past to the present in order to move into the future.
Chiron sextile Jupiter:
People who have this aspect really make you stop and think. They are capable of coming up with insights about you, about humanity, or about life in general, that are remarkable for clarity and accuracy. They have the ability to tune in to the ‘flavor’ and interests of a particular time and interpret them as a part of a larger picture. Depending on the level of evolution of the individual---and also depending upon the culture they are living in, they can interpret the positive, uplifting aspects, or the negative, depressing aspects. By being able to perceive the basic character of the culture, for the particular time, a person with this aspect is capable of using personal knowledge to manipulate, even control others, if the rest of the chart is bent in that direction. No matter what the rest of the chart is like, there is a tendency to get caught up in philosophical ideas and not realize they are too abstract to really use well in the real world. This may take the form of trying to create a world that fits their abstract concepts and not realizing just how far from reality they are straying. Should they be able to realize and avoid such hazards, this is an excellent aspect for any sort of teaching or enterprise in which one’s personal interpretations are essential.
EXAMPLES of people with Jupiter sextile Chiron:
F. Scott Fitzgerald, James Hoffa, Richie Valens, Richard Nolle, Edouard Daladier, Auguste Piccard, Ottorino Resphighi, Ted Mack, Josef Stalin, Vance Brand, Steve Cauthen, Eleanor Clark, Eugene Fodor, Franco Harris, Roger Staubach, Beau Bridges, Eric Burden, Paul Kantner, Katharine Graham, Joan Jett, Johnnie Ray, T.S. Elliot, Balzac, Oscar Wilde, Woodrow Wilson, Gaston Bachelard, Prince Andrew, Jack Paar, Billy Squier, Bob Dylan, Bobby McFerrin, Bono, Brian Jones, Carole King, Eddie Jackson, Eddie Rabbit, Edwin Starr, Lena Horne, Lionel Richie, Lou Reed, Maurice White, Odetta, Paul Revere (musician), Ray Charles, Richie Valens, Teresa Brewer, Woody HermanTim Hardin.
Chiron opposition Mars:
This aspect produces real fighters, and what they fight for depends on the sign and house of these two planets. The more elevated types can go all out in the fight for those less fortunate, or for those oppressed. In the lower types, the fighter instinct is developed into a strong feeling that they can improve their stations in life by a fight. There are major lessons to be learned here about one's own masculinity, which hopefully, they have learned very early. If not, there may develop an overpowering need to assert the self, to the point that the overcompensation distorts the lifestyle. On the positive side, these people enjoy finding special ways of doing things, and a clear feeling of being different from ordinary people.
EXAMPLES of people with Mars opposition Chiron:
Luciano Pavarotti, Manuel DeFalla, Marcel Proust, Pearl S. Buck, Leon Spinks, John V. Lindsay, Thomas Bradley, Maria Callas, Ursula LeGuin, Winston Churchill, Dustin Hoffman, Louis de Funes, Hugh Maskela, Marvin Gaye.
Chiron opposition Pluto:
This aspect seems to express itself in one of two ways. In some natives it shows up as a great need to overcome some powerful inner hostility stemming from early childhood. This hostility may come from being constantly thwarted by parents, or from being a recipient of hostility from others in the environment. Whatever the cause, there are major lessons to learn about opening up, getting in touch with the inner rage, and then cleansing it once and for all from the system. In other persons, rather than anger, the expression is a need to win---to overcome obstacles and to beat any opponent. In some cases it seems that actual people must be beaten; in other cases an abstract opponent will do.
EXAMPLES of people with Chiron opposite Pluto:
William Cullen Bryant, Steve Cauthen, Vanessa Williams, John Stamos, Matt Dillon, Eddie Murphy, Fred Astaire, Annabella Lwin, Bono, Joe McIntyre, Jon Bon Jovi, Michael Wilton, Ninah Cherry, Paula Abdul, Sinead O'Connor, Taylor Dayne, Terence Trent D'Arby, Vanessa Paradis. -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, March 7, 2006 - 1:23 PMThank you very much for that information!!
I would say that it does fit me very well. I am a Social Worker and I do fight hard for the rights of people with disabilities. I have a passion for trying to help others find their path in life and help them build tools to create the life they want. I also believe that this is one of the first impressions I make on people when they meet me.
The mentors and guides that have come in and out of my life in the last few years have been invaluable to me. I have learned so very much from people much wiser than myself. People who have helped me see certain things and have helped me expand on my own possibilities. Conversely, I have served as a mentor and guide for others. I have probably learned just as much in that role as I did as the student.
With the North and South Node aspects I would also say that is very accurate. I have had to work very hard to learn the things I have learned. My work hasn't been difficult really, but it has been a dilligent pursuit of knowledge, learning, insight, and growth. It also amazes me how it seems like everything I have learned or gone through to this point has been exactly what I need to pursue the goals I now have. An example: I was president of the speech and debate team in college many years ago. Now, what I want to do requires excellent communication skills as well as the ability to speak in front of large groups.
"They are capable of coming up with insights about you, about humanity, or about life in general, that are remarkable for clarity and accuracy." Yes, I would say that I have this gift. It has come in very handy in my work and life in general. Part of this is that I am good at seeing patterns as well as seeing into the heart of another person. I am an empath and that is woven into my work and my life. I am a very, very positive person, but that didn't come about with out work either. I didn't have the happiest childhood and I also had severe post partum depression following the birth of all three of my children. I finally realized that happiness is a conscious choice and I choose to be happy and to focus on the positive in life.
"On the positive side, these people enjoy finding special ways of doing things, and a clear feeling of being different from ordinary people. "... yep... I really don't have to even find these ways... it is just the way I am.
"In some natives it shows up as a great need to overcome some powerful inner hostility stemming from early childhood"...been there, done that.... slayed the dragon and went on to dance at the celebration feast!
"In other persons, rather than anger, the expression is a need to win---to overcome obstacles and to beat any opponent. "...yes, yes, yes.... I refuse to let set backs, everyday life, or disappointments defeat me. I don't battle to beat other people, but rather battle to become the best me. To compete against myself in a way. I refuse to give up on my dreams and my goals!
-
Re: chiron
Thu, March 9, 2006 - 12:11 AMHi,
What about Chiron in conjunction with the part of fortune? Sorry if this question has already been posted. -
-
Re: chiron
Thu, March 9, 2006 - 7:17 AMDamien,
I'm sorry but I can't answer that because I do not use the Part of Fortune. Perhaps someone else who has experience with this Part can come up with some delineation for you. -
-
Re: chiron
Thu, March 9, 2006 - 6:32 PMThanks anyway Zane. Btw, love this thread. Lots of great reading here.
Any other takers on PoF? ;-) -
-
Re: chiron
Wed, March 15, 2006 - 1:01 PMDoes Chiron count for Grand trines. If so w/o Givng all the placements. what oofect does this have. My chart on my page. Chiron is in Pisces. I have a theroy this is my draw Pisces for the .... well mothering need of cancer, missing. ie- the Saturn IC Theme I have going. Chiron is busy here. as has been said my subverted self & aid to strength all at once??
Can any one help me define this? -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: chiron
Wed, March 15, 2006 - 1:26 PMwell, if you're going to count chiron as having any meaning at all, you should count it in a grand trine, and conversely, since it is part of a GT, that's that much more reason to count it. I have a similar situation involving my chiron as part of a grand cross. accepting chiron as a planet has been a gradual process for me, but understanding that it is significantly aspected leads me to give it more credence. -
-
Re: chiron
Wed, March 15, 2006 - 1:29 PMand like everything about astrology, it's not so much a matter of whether IT does or doesn't count, as a matter\ of wherther YOU do or don't count it. ultimately, it's the meaning that you derive from it that matters most.
-
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: chiron
Wed, March 15, 2006 - 1:26 PMWhat if Chiron is conjunct the MC does that mean something? -
-
Re: chiron
Wed, March 15, 2006 - 7:58 PMChiron conjunct the MC...it's like a super concentrated form of Chiron in the 10th, so let me refer to that first:
These people drive themselves hard in their own field, often keeping gruelling schedules. yet they are usually known for being vital, alive and hardworking with a single-mindedness of purpose and a hatred of inactivity. When they talk about their purpose they tend to lecture like a preacher. It is not unusual for them to reach a high position in some field without many of the requirements which are normally necessary to do so, such as a high school graduate working at a job usually filled by a college graduate. In any event, they are usually in a position where they just don’t seem to fit in with their co-workers, such as the only non-family member in a family-run business. Even if they chose a field where it is normal to be “different”, they still seem to just not be like anyone else in the field. Thus they are definitely conspicuous and capable of making quite an impact on their profession. They are known for having a “something extra” which makes them stand out as mavericks, or for NOT having something which others in their field have which also makes them stand out. The public knows these people for their willingness to go beyond conventional methods in their careers, even if there is opposition from others, and they often disdain critics. Many have a great charisma. They usually have a fast wit and tend to be known for their self-deprecating humor . They always feel they must have an immediate goal, and if they don’t have one they invent one. Often they find it difficult to concern themselves with long-range goals. They make good crusaders.
For Chiron conjunct the MC, I have very little to add to the above except to say that it is more intense, more pronounced. If you have it conjunct the MC you should choose a career that gives you a great deal of freedom and that encourages you to experiment. If you can conceive of the MC as what a person is striving to become---the ‘ego-ideal’, so to speak, then you can understand why this person wants very much to become whole. It is an excellent position for a teacher as well as for any career which encourages people to ‘see the light.'
-
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
a subversive view of Chiron
Wed, March 15, 2006 - 1:29 PMre: "Does Chiron count for Grand trines. "
In my opinion (and only that), the degrees of orb for a grand trine need to be four degrees or smaller. If the orbs are this tight between all three points and if Chiron is one of the three points, I would call this a virtual grand trine...meaning, it can sometimes act as a grand trine given that Chiron is fully integrated into the personality. The process of personal integration of Chiron, however, is where many astrologers diverge in their opinions of what that entails and looks like.
My take on natal Chiron, beyond and including the worn out "wounded healer" explanation for everything, is that it signifies an area in your life (the house) where a force of subversion is acting out. Unconsciously, when unitegrated, this looks to me like an area of self-sabotage whenever we are attemtping to conform to a mainstream consensus standard.
Consciously, when integrated, looks like a person has learned to stop stabbing themselves (the wounded healer awakes!) by conforming to external status quo models and has begun positing an alternative approach that acts as a force of subversive to the status quo in that area.
The sign Chiron can suggest what "consensus reality" we are looking to subvert. For example, Iwith Chiron in Capricorn I have consistently sabotaged my intent whenever I have attempted to conform to socially-accepted versions of "success" and so, after waking up to this self-stabbing idiocy, I have redefined success completely in my own terms and succeeded! Perhaps you have noticed here on the astrology tribe how gleefully I subvert the status quo defintions of astrological terms.
That's my punky integrated 3rd House Chiron talking.
-sherpa -
-
Re: a subversive view of Chiron
Wed, March 15, 2006 - 7:42 PMBy the way, sherpa, Al Morrison would have felt very comfortable with your description of Chiron.
He often said two things about it. First, that it was an 'inconvenient benefic'. And second, that it so often acted as the sabot that jammed the gear works.
You and I both have Chiron in Capricorn, and mine is kind of doubly so because it is in my 10th, the highest point in my chart. I won't tell you how many times I've enjoyed sticking a pin in some pseudo-authority's overblown ego, even if it has meant suverting my own advancement.
-
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
chiron in trine
Wed, March 15, 2006 - 7:54 PMIt was asked, what about Chiron in a Grand Trine?
First, let me mention something about how Chiron behaves in a trine. Quite atypically.
Normally we expect a trine to be easy and flowing, something we can take for granted. We do not expect any lessons to come from the areas 120 degrees away from a planet. But Chiron brings unexpected lessons from an area we thought we could feel quite comfortable with. It opens doors to worlds in areas we thought we knew quite well. Chiron in trine teaches us not to take anything for granted. Once we have learned this, we can now purposely use the aspected planet as a key to explore new worlds. We can express our own unique style with ease, and take for granted this part of ourselves.
Now, a Grand Trine is often a kind of lazy aspect, unless one or more points of pattern are also in square to another body.
The tendency with Chiron in a Grand Trine is, like any other points, to take the energies for granted. But Chiron here will frequently be throwing you a curve ball, so to speak, sometimes to one of the other bodies in the Grand Trine, sometimes the other, and sometimes both.
I agree with sherpa that Chiron can be a self-sabotage at times, until one begins to integrate the energies. The self-sabotage stems from old wounds we have not consciously dealt with, buried pains, 'buttons' that other people set off that bring up old behavior patterns.
Well, with the Grand Trine, there is much more impetous to deal with this buried, repressed, or unintegrated energy...it seems there is always something going on that you have to deal with. It's not a lazy aspect pattern, but what often shows is the desire to be lazy or take things for granted here, and the constant need to have to deal with a kick in the butt every time we become complacent. -
-
Re: chiron in trine
Wed, March 15, 2006 - 9:02 PMZane Thank very much,
With out reading aspects or getting into this as though it were a dissected bug, you gave me a technical view of something I’m feeling deep inside myself.
Looking at a chart is like looking at a wiring diagram, for a complicated piece of electrical equipment. In a way that’s exactly what we are.
May I talk you into a interpretation of Chiron in Pisces 4th house. I went looking through the threads ,and if you have done this one, I couldn’t find it.
I’ll “Feel the aspects for my self.
I have an idea of Who this “Character” is in me, but a comparison of “Tried and True” would be most appreciated.
Sabian Says: Pisces 15*
__(15°)
AN OFFICER IN UNKEMPT CAMPAIGN UNIFORM DRILLS HIS MEN Subjective of outer appearances to real necessities. Potent compulsion of a great task to be performed. Opportunity seized.
___*When positive, the degree is a gift for bringing genuine efficiency and real adventure to common objectives, and when negative, “uninspiring drudgery”.
Wow that last part says worlds…. Big laugh at my self!!!
The first part hit right to my wishes. And lack there of , my frustrations. ... Wild. -
-
Re: chiron in trine
Thu, March 16, 2006 - 3:54 AMZane i have this feeling chiron will play large part of my life..everything described here just resonates something in me. Overcoming problems and hurts and emerging stronger then before just seems to be my theme and fascination in life - and so is thorough change of view in spirituality.
Could you suggest me some literature on, lets say, "philosophical interpretation" of chiron? Id love to read something from more esoteric area where they work with it..interpreting what is it really supposed to bring to humanity. I have this gut feeling ill want to have a part in it :] -
-
Re: chiron in trine
Thu, March 16, 2006 - 8:57 AMAlan, to answer your question:
1. I wrote a book many years ago on Chiron, called "Essence and Application: A View From Chiron", which is a mixture of esoteric and real world when it comes to Chiron.
2. Melanie Reinhart has written some good stuff on Chiron that you may find of value, especially "Chiron and the Healing Journey"
3. There is some good interesting philosophy in Barbara Hand Clow's first book, Chiron, although it is mixed in with a lot of more wifty, new-agey fluff so you'll have to put up with that. Unfortunately, the fluff becomes more dominant in her later books, so I wouldn't advise adding those to your reading list.
4. Here is an excellent article written by Candy Hillenbrand on Chiron:
www.aplaceinspace.net/Pages/E...ron.html
-
-
Re: chiron in trine
Thu, March 16, 2006 - 8:38 AMDragonWire:
I like the 'electrical diagram' imagry. And it goes in a way with my theory that Chiron was captured by our solar system around the time of the first human being. I imagine an atom, which is elevated to a higher state of activity when a new electron is added to it....
Chiron in Pisces:
They have a personal imperative to feel that whatever they are involved in is THE truth, the important cause. They want to avoid involving themselves in anything that is not important, or not possible to achieve. In this last point, what qualifies “possible” is their evolutionary state for the evolved ones believe that nothing is impossible. They want to be truly universal in lifestyle, and so will go beyond their world to become more whole. They have a deep optimism that they can make the world a better place, although this can be curtailed severely by heavy Saturn aspects. They are almost all quite psychic, and full of dreams. But one of the major lessons they have to learn is to avoid falling for wrong causes. They have an overpowering need to express love.
Chiron in the 4th House:
These people feel a very strong tie to humanity. They feel deeply inside that they share common roots with all mankind and therefore have something in common with all people. There is usually a powerful desire to uplift others either mentally, emotionally or spiritually, and there is a powerful sympathy with the “little man”, the common man, who can be victimized by larger groups and corporations. These people don’t want to start anything they feel might fail, for to them failure is failing mankind, not just themselves. The want to enlighten others, to build a world where everyone is treated equally, to bring joy to everyone they meet. But their powerful insecurity surfaces if they feel they have failed --- they “can’t fail!” If other things in the chart are unstable, this is a prime position for suicide when they feel they have failed. Also these people are extremely upset when things are going on without their knowledge, or when things are going on which exclude them, or exclude someone they know. Theirs is a deep feeling that the whole world is a family; this gives them a strong community spirit. There are two basic types: the extremely undervalued type, often shy, tense and nervous, whose fear of failure has kept him back somewhat; and the “tough under fire” type who receives great respect, is quite popular, and is comfortable being controversial. Both types like to work!
People with Chiron in the 4th:
Ken Kesey, Henry Lewis, Mickey Lolich, James Lovell, Marie McCarthy, Patricia Neal, William Rehnquist, Donna Summer, Helen Hayes, John Lindsay, Joan Baez, Carmen Delavallade, Bradford Dillman, David Carradine, Arthur Godfrey, Ernest Hemingway, Lenny Bruce, Herman Hesse, Oscar Wilde, Dr. Sam Sheppard, Albert Speer, Vincent Van Gogh, Paul Goebbels, Hal Holbrook, Elton John, Karl Krafft, Troy Perry, Clifford Odets, Zubin Mehta, Mark Goodson, Walt Disney, John Denver, Ralph Nader, Jerry Reed, Robert Kastenmeier, Toulouse-Lautrec, Bonnie Franklin, Red Skelton, John Voight
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: chiron
Thu, March 16, 2006 - 7:00 AMI have Chiron in Taurus in the 7th House of relationships. I have a yod point aiming towards Chiron in the 7th House. I'm still confused over what a yod point actually is. I know it is also called the 'finger of fate,' but what is fateful about it? Is a yod point something which insinuates an are of our life which we need to pay special attention to? If so, this certainly explains why my relationships with women have been difficult. Most of my painful experiences in life have been within relationships. I know everybody else has painful experiences inside relationships, but I feel as though I have been through more hard times than most people; perhaps because my feelings, emotions, desires and love feelings are so intense. It seems that my Scorpio Moon opposite Chiron in the 7th House explains partly why this area of my life has been difficult. -
-
Re: chiron
Thu, March 16, 2006 - 10:40 AMPryce,
One of the most down to earth, least abstract descriptions of a Yod I've read so far is at:
www.thezodiac.com/yod4.htm
And here are a few other sites to give additional perspective on the Yod:
www.panix.com/~gsk/yod.html
www.lunarliving.org/astrolog...ang.shtml
As for your comment about pain and relationships:
Everyone I know who has Moon or Venus in Scorpio, or one of those bodies in conjunction, square, or opposition to Pluto, has had some of the most painful relationship experiences imaginable. Something about that Pluto/Scorpio nature almost brings about a destruction of part of the person's psyche as a result of the relationship. While they have emerged from the ashes, the pain is never forgotten.
And with Chiron involved, the painful lessons also touch very old, deep, unhealed wounds, which makes the lessons all the more painful because it is both the new pain, and the old pain, at the same time. -
-
Re: chiron
Tue, March 21, 2006 - 3:54 PMThanks for links, Zane. Very informative, and I can completely concur with you comments regarding pain and relationships. -
-
Re: chiron
Fri, September 14, 2007 - 5:15 AMHi, my chiron is also in pisces. wow this thread is really intense. mine happens to be in the 8th house, at 14 degress opposing mars, pluto and uranus.....all those planets are in my second house. I have a grand earth trine...I am told that is really lucky.
also squares my sun (in sag at 15 d) but sextiles the moon (moon in cap at 18) and jupiter ( in taurus at 18), then trines both venus at 14 scorpio and neptune at 18 scorpio). i understand that eight house issues have alot to do with equality between partners, sexuality,
because eight house matters are ruled by scorpio, inheritances, taxes, shared resources...i wonder how i can work with this one. iwth chiron being at 14 degrees in my eight house, my eight house is at 13 degress so my chiron is conjunct that point.... -
-
Re: chiron
Fri, September 14, 2007 - 2:41 PMHi Zane,
I'm wondering, what means transiting chiron trining natal pluto and transiting pluto trining natal chiron(pluto is my chart ruler)? My chart is in my profile. Thanks in advance. -
-
Re: chiron
Sun, May 25, 2008 - 1:53 PMI know this is old, but I would be interested in having more understanding about unaspected chiron
It is the only unaspected feature of my chart,
and it is unaspected in addition to unaspected n node in the charts of my daughter and a favorite lover of mine....
i find that interesting
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: chiron
Mon, May 26, 2008 - 3:45 PMChiron is in many signs, not just 12 . E.g. Nessus is presently in Microscopium. Why Chiron is the least interesting centaur, kind of asexual and crippled. Concentarte on the large ones like Chariklo, perhaps start with Asbolus, ok? -
-
Re: chiron
Mon, May 26, 2008 - 3:49 PM22, Your persistent attempts to sell your product are obnoxious in the extreme
If I were moderator I would delete them because you say the same thing over and over and over
obnoxious! ! -
-
Re: chiron
Mon, May 26, 2008 - 5:32 PMRose, Klaudio aka 22 is locked into a closed mindset. He is only interested in promoting his own agenda. I don't think he knows or cares that people find his excessive self-serving posts obnoxious. And it is not just his 'attempts to sell' his own publications that is obnoxious...it is also his insulting, denigrating, disrespectful comments to other members of this tribe that is highly aggravating.
If he had his own tribe, he could post his own articles there to his hearts content, and say what he pleased. If people didn't like it, they could simply quit his tribe.
There must be something in his chart that makes him only see the world through his own eyes. I'm guessing he is an afflicted fire sign, perhaps? Leo maybe, but I'm leaning towards an afflicted Sagittarius.
-
-
-
Re: chiron
Mon, May 26, 2008 - 4:56 PMChiron was interesting with Eris at prohibition time. Today's hero is Okyrhoe as c/o responsible for catastrophe on planetary level. tribes.tribe.net/academic_...a448897753
-
Re: chiron
Mon, May 26, 2008 - 5:17 PM
-
Re: chiron
Mon, May 26, 2008 - 5:25 PMChiron is about castration like Klingzor in your Grail legends. It is an asexual centaur. Asboulus is much more powerful and there are scores of centaurs. To know Chiron know Chariklo. As concern houses and constellations use those natural in the sky. The wild centaurs are even less contained than Moon or Venus, thus they space every corner of the sky, the name was given by astronomers. E,g Asbouls in Lupus or Chariklo in Centaurs. You hae to study carefully the centaurs and avoid superstition. There are scores, dozens of centaurs to study. This takes time and special methods.
-
Re: chiron
Thu, May 29, 2008 - 12:05 AMComet 95P/Chiron
Object name : 2060 Chiron (1977 UB) {source: JPL#70-DASTCOM3}
makes an approach in August 2008, so the time for studyong Chiron along with the Olympics is August 5th 2008.
Chiron is classified as comet-like object (in astronomic quarters). I am posting its ephemeris on Astronomic_Zodiac group.
As concern astrology, Chiron is fairly neutral, asexual, portrayed Klingzor complex, and autocastration, if that helps.
The Chiron sigil in ritual majik and its magickal properties are available through google groups search and on tribe.net