And you won't show me your chart? What? Do you have a Scorpio Moon?

zayne

". Believed vs Felt......is there THAT big a difference? Same thing. "

why see criticism where there is not any. I know what you said. I can read. I am just highlighting that you ONLY posted what you felt was relevant but of course there may be other stuff that is relevant. I am not saying that there is some subtle difference between felt and believed and picking up on that. Are you deliberately splitting hairs?

"Your persistent effort at insisting I was groundless or out of realm of possibilities isn't very wise, Paul. In my subjective opinion, that is. "

omg are you taking offence to the fact that I suggested subjectivity?

"Paul, I was only able to offer up what I did offer up. Perhaps you haven't thought back yet. There was no time to venture anywhere else into the realm of possibiliy. Amiablehermit took immediate offense and it was all downhill ffrom there. That is clearly apparent."

You could have said "Amiable where is your chart?". Simple. YOu didn't GIVE yourself time. There is a difference. You jumped to a conclusion. I'm actually trying to help you out here. I can't believe why you don't see that.
Please re-read my posts. I can't think of any better way to say what I have.

"nobody has a clue as to where you are coming from because you haven't even revealed that."

YOU dont' understand where she is coming from. There is a difference. I understand where she is coming from having read the entirety of her posts which make it (to me at least) very clear where is coming from. But then we share an aquarian moon, perhaps I just understand where she is coming from better. Try re-reading all her posts without making judgements. She mentions several times issues pertaining to karma and EVEN (as a bonus) suggests part of her chart that reflect those viewpoints.

Perhaps with a fresh head tomorrow you'll re-read these posts and see something in them you've missed tonight. Sleep well!

MY life-troubles? Retaliation against what? Your pettiness, lack of effort in looking at my chart, which I told you that you could find in various places, complete disregard of what I have really, really emphasized as my purpose in posting? Do you need a link? What?

You have no need to speculate ~ I have repeatedly offered you my chart. Have at it. Tear it to pieces if you want or not or whatever, but it is laid out for your view. And I have offered my take on why I feel so passionate right now. Does being passionate now and then constitute some sort of evil, nasty, or neurotic way of thinking? Is it so horrible to be EXTREMELY outraged by not only the abject meanness you find, but also the gross apathy and willful ignorance in others that you see ~ like fucking changing the subject to some frivolously self-interested bullshit or honing in on semantics and whittling things down to accusatory "he said" "she said? " Am I or anyone else supposed to admire that ostrich maneuver?

I AM TELLING YOU THAT THE KARMA OF THE WHOLE IS ALSO THE KARMA OF THE ONE WHEN THE ONE CHOOSES TO DO NOTHING ABOUT IT ~ WHICH INCLUDES IGNORING WHAT YOU HEAR ABOUT IT.

Don't lay your weasling out of looking at it on me. OWN THIS FOR A CHANGE. NOTHING WILL CHANGE IF YOU DON'T.

That is as simply as I can say what I am and have been saying.

Zayne

"When was this tribe brought to its knees because of "suggested" afflictions? I haven't noticed that kind of turmoil here. There was a rather long thread on another tribe not long ago, but I haven't seen one here. What is the title of the thread?"

You joined this tribe on September 17th. I already posted that the events that I was referring to are going back roughly 3-4 months. There are many titles of many threads. I won't be posting them. By all means look into the archives and see for youself.

"Paul, you are not phrasing my replies accurately. I did not "term her understandings of virgo as bieng indicative of a lack of research.....considering I have made these comments about her chart without actually looking at it"."

Zayne, I don't care enough about this but here is your comment: "An afflicted Virgo is a "novel view" that you have never heard before? Really? That is something. Well that just goes to show that research is never done , eh? ".
(btw you seem to keep missing her point regarding what is an afflicted virgo. The reality is that, as amiable tried to suggest to you, there is no such thing. There is no such thing as an afflicted virgo. Signs do not get afflicted. PLANETS/angles can be afflicted in certain signs, but the sign itself isn't afflicted. I knew what you meant by what you said but amiable was just correcting the terminology for you but you seem to have missed it and jumped onto the 'lack of research' argument you then used. I'm exlaining it in a more open manner so that you don't keep confusing what was actually meant by what was said. In other words you might say that Mars is afflicted in Pisces, but you would never say that Pisces is afflicted).

"Who are "those more psychologically inclined" Paul? A hook? As in........what? What is a "hook" Paul? Are you suggesting something unethical on my part? It sounds that way to me. Might want to clarify."

Those more psychologically inclined refers to anyone who is psychologically inclined. I can't think of any simpler way to put that. As to WHO they are, well that would be anyone who reads that comment with an inclination of psychology. I feel like you're asking me to teach you to suck eggs. What I've said there was self-explanatory. If you are psychologically inclined you will be aware of terms like projection and hooks. If you're not then that comment wasn't directed toward you. I make an assumption, perhaps foolishly, that most of the people who post here are somewhat psychologically inclined enough to know what projections are. That what I've posted sounds unethical to you is not really my concern (I can't be held accountable for other people's bizarre conclusion-jumping), especially considering you've just accepted that you don't actually know what it is that I've actually said. If you see something you don't understand do you presume some unethical judgements of your character? To put more simply, if you're not interested in psychology or in the notion of projections and their hooks then what I was talking about won't interest you and therefore wasn't directed toward you, just as this entire tribe isn't directed toward those not interested in astrology.

"Again, I did not "speculate on her chart"

Well it seems like you did to me. You speculated on her chart placements.

"Nothing that should have ever been enormously misinterpreted as some kind of confusion or ill-will on my part. "

I've not suggested that you are either confused nor wish ill will. I've suggested that I disagree with your viewpoint. I'm just voicing that disagreement and offering counter-arguments to your interpretation style. At the same time I am wary of anything which might be sign-ism. If you say that's not what you intend then I will trust that. i don't think it is.

"then is it not up to others to offer up their "subjective" ,but viable suggestions on what the root of the issue "might" be? "

Only if they ask you to.

"when someone shows a very clearly HEAVILY negative mindset towards their own "subjective understanding" "

Does amiable? Or is her point in reality the correct one? We don't know. To YOU it is negative, but that doesn't make it any less true or valid. We simply don't know. In any case if we were to point to aspects/signs etc, I think her Sun-Moon dynamic between Leo-Aquarius axis is where we may benefit from examining (as Amiable herself suggested).

"nce again, Paul, I made NO comments on her "chart".

You commented on placements she may have in her chart and how it would relate to her. That IS commenting on her chart, whether or not you commented on the aspects she mentioned or whether you looked at the chart itself.

"At that point she could have either said "yay" or "nay" and that would have been the end of it. "

So if I suggested that you my have an afflicted mercury/mars aspect that may cause you see negative comments where there are none in an effort to project those issues onto othes (possibly involving oppositions, libra or the 7H) you would just say yay or nay? of course not. You'd say don't be ridiculous actually LOOK at my chart before commenting on it and then perhaps proceed to actually educate me on the astrological terms I've gotten wrong or misinterpreted. Or perhaps you wouldn't, but I think most people would.

"VERYBODY IN THE WORLD doens't march to the beat of the same drum and immediately aske everyone to see their chart. To imply as much is unwise on your part, don't you think Paul?"

No I don't actually. I think its much wiser to look at the whole picture before making guesses on what might be there. Rather than jump to conclusions I would suggest it is wiser to actually check or do some research and then ask, rinse and repeat.

"astronuts" ? What is astronuts? I have never joined anything called "astronuts". You might want to check again. "

You see again, you make comments to others that might more readily be representative of yourself. THIS tribe is called astronuts. Check the URL in your address. astronuts.tribe.net
Just because you didn't know doesn't mean that other people are wrong. I appreciate you may not have known, but it is not wise to immediately assume that others are wrong.

"That would be your subjective opinion, wouldn't it?"

Of course. Who's elses would it be? I also assume intellligence, but of course I've been proven wrong on that too in the past. Same goes for common sense and I'll probably make these mistakes again in the future.
I don't remember anyone blaming you for not knowing. My point was that its easy to ask. If you want to know the chart placements, just ask. Simple. Far better to ask then to guess. You would not assume that because I describe an animal with four legs and tail and is a common domestic pet, that that animal is a cat. It could of course be a dog. In other words, without more information or the bigger picture, we simply don' t know and any groundless guesswork on the animal being a cat so is more likely to sleep and chase mice is completely unprofitable. I would have thought this was common sense. Am I wrong?

"I am here to read,learn more and offer up any help I can, when I can. I don't ask everyone I talk to in an astrology tribe for their chart. Its not necessary, its an option of the conversation goes THAT far "

I'm also here to learn and read more and offer help. Although my comments are blunt and short don't think that they are a personal attack on you. I am trying to explain where amiable is coming from and am also tryin gto offer advice on not to jump the gun on make baseless conclusions without all the facts at hand (ie. the chart). However noone is suggesting that you take my advice, however I think if you put yourself in amiable's shoes you may see where she is coming from.

I believe the word is concoct, just to clarify for our non-native English speakers.

I have not been beating any drum but an invitation to you to ACTUALLY LOOK at my chart so you can actually interpret with some confidence. I'd also like to see yours, but apparently you have some aversion to that for some mysterious reason. And I have stated what I perceive to be the crux of this passion I feel, which you choose to characterize pejoratively. If it were not for your misrepresentation of this discussion, I really could not care less for your pedantic opinions. But you are misrepresenting what I have said and what I am saying, and I find that rather, well, ugly.