I'm interested in how people (Joe Schmoe and Jane Dusseldorf next door) would go about educating theirselves through daily living, about astrology. I have my own story, but I'm interested in the the stories of others, who got started just by becoming inspired by this topic and subsequently became engulfed in their own odyssey of discovery .
When you first read about astrology, what really stood out for you?
What grabbed you said, HEY...there is something TO this.
When you meet new people and are thrust into new situations, what astrological elements do you pick up on first?
Leaving the texts alone (aside from introductory, almost mundane astronomical stuff) what mental techniques do you emply as you meet people and have new experiences, and how do you inependently find astrological meaning (if you are so inclined) in such expriences? What are your personal observations that you have made, unassisted, without any guru or mentor or "holy scripture" to go by?
For instance, in my spare time I am a musican.
In the beginning, I leanred E,G,B,D,F, A,B,C, timing,...etc...but after awhile I began to teach myself by using the technique of arpeggiated rhythms to learn how notes can be combined. After I became confident with this, I began to spill my heart and soul into music and blend notes into ever more soulful combinations without taking any instruction other than how to allow my myself to connect with myself. (I did have some great mentors in this area). But the rest is just practice. Lots of it.
So, again...what similar way have you assimilated astrology into your own soul through direct observation? How did astrology begin (and continue) to work for you as a phenomenon, rather than a rule or a scripture or a system? How can you start your own system of observation?
Consider this dream:
You are an orphan child. You are left marooned with an island with a small group of peers. You have no books. No internet. No wordly knowledge. Besides your work to survive and the games you play, you have nothing but each other to observe...and the sun and the moon and the stars.
When you first read about astrology, what really stood out for you?
What grabbed you said, HEY...there is something TO this.
When you meet new people and are thrust into new situations, what astrological elements do you pick up on first?
Leaving the texts alone (aside from introductory, almost mundane astronomical stuff) what mental techniques do you emply as you meet people and have new experiences, and how do you inependently find astrological meaning (if you are so inclined) in such expriences? What are your personal observations that you have made, unassisted, without any guru or mentor or "holy scripture" to go by?
For instance, in my spare time I am a musican.
In the beginning, I leanred E,G,B,D,F, A,B,C, timing,...etc...but after awhile I began to teach myself by using the technique of arpeggiated rhythms to learn how notes can be combined. After I became confident with this, I began to spill my heart and soul into music and blend notes into ever more soulful combinations without taking any instruction other than how to allow my myself to connect with myself. (I did have some great mentors in this area). But the rest is just practice. Lots of it.
So, again...what similar way have you assimilated astrology into your own soul through direct observation? How did astrology begin (and continue) to work for you as a phenomenon, rather than a rule or a scripture or a system? How can you start your own system of observation?
Consider this dream:
You are an orphan child. You are left marooned with an island with a small group of peers. You have no books. No internet. No wordly knowledge. Besides your work to survive and the games you play, you have nothing but each other to observe...and the sun and the moon and the stars.
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Unsu...
Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 9:18 PMWhat stood out for me at first was the fact that if I read several astrologer predictions for my sign, pisces on any given day they would sometimes contradict each other hehe!!!
I started out by attempting to get a different/ more complete/ coherent picture by cross-referencing what several astrologers wrote each day. I guess I was looking for the common source or thread that they drew their interpretations from.
Next, I started cross referencing everything I could find about my natal chart. Soon after that, I was comparing my chart with any other person's chart that I could get my hands on using synastry. Around this time I started trying to guess charts of others to be able to do the synastry. I did all of this online and I did a lot of it during 3 or 4 hour testing periods in the classes I taught since all I could do during that time was sit and watch them take tests and answer questions...get up every 15 minutes to monitor the class...and there were always those few students that stayed the whole 3 or 4 hours. That is too long for the gemini in me to just sit and watch. I needed to be doing something and astrology was easy to look up in between monitoring and questioning...other things like grading and planning just didn't work since the iterruptions and monitoring continually interrupted my train of thought and made me constantly lose my place in what I was doing. Browsing for random info that I was curious about was far less noisy and distracting than playing solitaire or something.
I exhausted the internet sources kind of quickly, though and I don't do that anymore. I did play some games for a bit on this last test I gave but it was way too distracting and noisy and so is typing so I found a good book to read instead. Even a book, though is hard to really read in this situation, though. I didn't get far at all but at least it didn't annoy me since it wasn't like I was trying to get work done or something. It is not a good idea to plan an activity during the proctoring of an exam that will make you annoyed with student interruptions or take your attention away from the class for too long. It becomes tempting to get short with students or miss what is going on in class.
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I think if a person studied astrology alone on a desert island, it would be likely to lead to a system or philosophy that fit very well for that particular person and location.
But I think there would be a good chance of the astrology being pretty narrow and too skewed by that person's personal experience and location...unless they had some sort of profound spiritual revelations or something. -
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 9:03 AMInteresting, Pi.
You know, what I do is...I look at those daily reports for the signs of EVERY sign in my horoscope. I look at my ascendant sign, my moon sign...venus...mars, etc....to see if they might have more weight at any time than my Sun Sign. I haven't really had a chance to run to my computer to check the ephemeris for the day at those times, but I've been meaning to. I mean, I'd like to see if maybe the MOON conjuncting one of the other important planets...or mayeb whatever of your planets is the most aspected on any given day by transits is the one which you should read your horoscope for. Actually, I have a strong about that idea...but I don't have a newspaper at the moment so I can't check anything! ~|-[
>Soon after that, I was comparing my chart with any other person's chart that I could get my hands on using synastry<
Hmm, another interesting approach! After years of looking for the ultimate Venus contact with another person, I found that Venus trines, etc, can easily be a relationship that begins with an idealistic twinkle and the two people WANT to love each other very much. BUT...in most cases I found this is the type of relationhip that starts off running and jumping with thrills and fireworks and lots of cake-icing...and then after it becomes a long-term relationship, the harsh realties start to show and so do other pragmatic types of compatibility which might be lacking. I found that simply having the three "most important" personality points (Sun, Moon, Acendant) in compatible signs can make just about any little clash you have with someone's Venus into something beautiful, even humorous. It's important to realize that we are all just riding on an astrological Karmic Wheel...and we all want to get off! But sometimes it's easier to get off when you are on one side and not on the other...and when you are riding the wheel with others...well, where we all sit on the astrological wheel mutually effects everyone's abilty to get off. Many people mistakenly think they are supposed to ride the wheel with another, when the idea is to GET OFF together. Finding someone who supports a perpetual ride on our personal Karmic wheel is NOT love. Finding someone who supports your getting off it does, and I find that the people who truly liberate me from myself in the long run in that sense...do NOT provide me with a megadose of traditional "good" synastry aspects. I think that SOFTENED CHALLENGES are the best bet in any relationship if you want it to last. Ever notice how long-married couples frequently have that typical "controlled perpetual bickering" between each other which rarely reaches a boiling point? That's because they have met the challenges and have grown together as a couple. True love is NOT liek in the fairy tales. Venus is a liar and a whore (oops, I plagiarized Sherpa! Except I said admitted it, so I didn't really...) ;-)
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Unsu...
Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Wed, October 10, 2007 - 3:28 PM"After years of looking for the ultimate Venus contact with another person, I found that ..."
It is interesting how we almost take inverse approaches to this! I suppose either way we get to x...
I square its square root to get there and you square root its square....(assuming x > 0)
For me, the synastric study went like this:
(1) Here is someone I know
(2) Our relationship is like this ___________
(3) Out charts look like this ___________
(4) Interesting <mental note>
(5) Proceed to form patterns from what I am observing
I have noticed that 12th house planets have such an amazing way of seeming "unavailable" for one. I also noted that oppositions take a lot of time to balance but it can be done with really awesome results for the growth of the individuals.
It seems to me that sun energy might permeate the whole person and order all their energies, but, the sun may not always be the dominant energy/feature of the personality. I've noticed that stelliums tend to be hard to harness/balance and yet they are soooo powerful.
And midpoints....they explain so much of what happens between people.
That and the effect and draw of those completed aspect structures like grand crosses and grand trines between two people which seem to form a life of their own for the two people when they are together. It is easy to see how people would want to stay connected to highly energized arrangements involving these aspects in spite of other factors.
We are not meant to complete our pupose here alone! (Well most of us...)
I guess I am not looking for any one thing in particular in my synastry charts with others...not so much seeking out "my perfect match". More making observations. -
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Thu, October 11, 2007 - 5:34 PM>I have noticed that 12th house planets have such an amazing way of seeming "unavailable" for one. <
When I wrote the original post, I KNEW that it would stir things up from the bottom of the vat. What you said here is great, and I have some feeling about this one too. What I wonder is, do you mean unavailable to the person who's chart it is...or in synastry, unavailable to a significant other? From my experience I would think you mean that the planet(s) in the 12th House are buried in a person and maybe unavailble to others who want to know that specific side of him or her. I think this may be an illusion, but it is a real illusion. (Example: An electron spins so fast around an atom that scientists can't really pinpoint where it will be at a given "moment".) I think people with 12th House planets are like this. You can't pinpoint where exactly they are...because they have broken some barrier (like the speed of light) that causes them to cross into some other realm. So this really stirs some questions about the nature the 12th House itself. I think it may represent the NON-PHYSICAL. It is that realm where astrology because there are no stars and planets there...just spirit, soul, and energy. It's also wierd how physicists have proven the existence of about 11 dimensions and there are 12 houses in astrology, only one of which is a true enigma and leaves us with more questions than any other. So maybe this is the dimension which is not provable by science and the only science which can reveal it is really ANTI-science....which expalins why it seems that things there are unavailable as you said!!!!
I have some insight into this through my own Neptune in the 12th House which is also conjunct the Ascendant. I definately feel that manifesting things from my psyche, and absorbing things from my environment is a duplex function of Neptune in my 12th...especially because it's also conjunct the Ascendant which is a connection between my psyche and the physical world.
The 12th House is one of the most confusing of all houses. There are times when I think that the 12th house should really be the 1st house. I mean, it kind of goes against reason to say that the "hidden" nature of a person should be represented ABOVE the horizon and not below it. Could it be that to know a person with planets in the 12th House you have to stop searching for them? Maybe DROP all desire to know them? It0 is in the 12th House where we let go and abosorb and BECOME absorbed. (Sigh) I could write about this forever...
>I also noted that oppositions take a lot of time to balance but it can be done with really awesome results for the growth of the individuals<
I have found that loose oppositions are better than exact ones, because you get the idea of the opposition but not the intensity. Shine a flashlight directly in a mirror and you get it right in the eyes. Turn just a hair one way or another and the majority of the glare is gone. Case and point. And what is an opposition but a reflection. In all the relationships where I had a strong opposition, the frustration eventually surpassed the attraction. The same goes for signs in compatible elements but who are not perfectly aspected. They harmonize but they aren't in each other's faces in any way. I think that's especially important with oppositions because an opposition can create conflict and head-butting too. Ifyou have a head on collision with another car, it makes a BIG difference if there is a slight angle to the collision, because then the cars glance off each other. In competetive relationships this is EXACTLY what people do when they are fighting but don't really want to hurt each other. They make sure there is room to fall clear of each other if they want to! Get it? ;-)
>And midpoints....they explain so much of what happens between people<
Don't they, though? It's really unbelievable what you find sometimes when you list synastric midpoints, when aspects just weren't explaining a thing. and some relationships seem to have more aspects while some have "decisively" more midpoints than aspects. Sun/Moon Midpoints seem to be incredibly important. I was stumped as to WHY my girlfriend and are so "joined at the hip", as I couldn't find any of the traditional romantic apetcs usually found in the charts of lovers (i.e. Moon trine Venus or conjunctVenus...or Mars trine Venus or sextile Venus, etc.) It turned out my GF and I both have each other's Sun/Moon midpoints in each other's 7th Houses...so our unique sun/moon personalities have double partnership value. I think maybe when you have something like this, even if you have conflicting energies it can really become fun and stimulating more than destructive to play with those conflicting energies together. What my GF and I also have is alot of our planets conjunct one-another's midpoints. This creates much more complex patterns than simply having trines between planets. I guess that would be a "high-resolution" relationship! I think of aspects being more like a basic skeletal structure in a relationship, and it takes alot of other stuff to embelish this and put some flesh on the bones. I've seen too many well-aspected relationships fail miserably after the initial attraction ran it's course.
Pi: >I guess I am not looking for any one thing in particular in my synastry charts with others...not so much seeking out "my perfect match". More making observations.>
One thing I've noticed is that even chart structures and elements play a huge role in long-term relationships that grow and simply work. Usually partners will have balance each other out where they both lack elements, or have too much...and YES, you CAN have too much of one elements. I think that is one of the largest reasons for dissastisfaction and depression in people. I also noticed that people with certain chart-sructures gravitate to people with certain other chart structures. I have a classic Locomotive pattern in my chart, and most of thepeople who become very close and importna to me on a long-term basis have stelliums in either water or earth, but who have one or two air or fire trines with me.
I think one of the most important misconceptions about synastry is that we are always meant to be comfortable. People SHOULD have friction between them and this is not caused by Trines or Sextiles. The desire and enjoyment of facing perpetual challenge is as good as it gets in reltionships. Anything else will either burn out or fade away.
It's interesting how many people have placed special attention on synastry on this post!
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Thu, October 11, 2007 - 5:42 PM>It is that realm where astrology because there are no stars and planets there...just spirit, soul, and energy.<
I meant to say that the 12th House is a realm where astrology does not exist. It is the non-physical...perhaps representing the subconcious ocean which is stirred by physical things INCLUDING astrology. I noticed that 12th House people tend to break many astrological rules, innocently though. What applies to everyone else doesn't always seem to apply to them...and I think that's because it represents a kind personal sanctuary where anything goes and what goes is based on how much a person can let go. The 12th House might represent what we need to let go of, and what other's will need to let go of in order to know us.
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 9:24 AMAs far as developing astrology in isolated places, such as a desert island...look at the different kinds of astorlogy which popped up worldwide through the milennia. They all were passed through the filter of someone's culture or way of life...but they all had unique contributions to make to astrology as a global human science. They all had their limitations...AND they had groundbreaking perspectives as well. I'm curious about what perspectives individuals have developed without subscribing too heavily to any one system.
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Unsu...
Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 6:52 AMFJ,
You certainly put a buttload of directions to go into this topic, this could have been a triology topic upon topic .
Doesn't personally give me much allance to ponder on each aspect. Well here is my attempt to answer the questions you are asking.
1." When you first read about astrology, what really stood out for you?
What grabbed you said, HEY...there is something TO this.
When you meet new people and are thrust into new situations, what astrological elements do you pick up on first? "
It didn't have anything thing to do with what stood out for me , I was a growing child of age 9 and in terms of reading about astrology it was a bit abstact other thing that realte to astrology made more sense at that time.
2."Leaving the texts alone (aside from introductory, almost mundane astronomical stuff) what mental techniques do you emply as you meet people and have new experiences, and how do you inependently find astrological meaning (if you are so inclined) in such expriences? What are your personal observations that you have made, unassisted, without any guru or mentor or "holy scripture" to go by? "
Well oddly enough when i first started learning astrology this was what I was to do watch and write what i saw and experienced and then look at the current aspects . The things which were regular in schedule i would write about the noticeable changes and compare with the current stuff.
As for independently, as a child, I noticed the sky and star patterns certain times of the year there would be star patterns that would repeat themselves -the sun and moon made repeated themes too but at a faster rate.
3.So, again...what similar way have you assimilated astrology into your own soul through direct observation? How did astrology begin (and continue) to work for you as a phenomenon, rather than a rule or a scripture or a system? How can you start your own system of observation?
Through deductions and familarity.
4.Consider this dream:
You are an orphan child. You are left marooned with an island with a small group of peers. You have no books. No internet. No wordly knowledge. Besides your work to survive and the games you play, you have nothing but each other to observe...and the sun and the moon and the stars.
Well in real life try having a child who does not speak many words and she screams certain times of the day and it when the moon is rising and setting. Very little about astrology has anything to do with what is in books-yes the math and science in how a chart is erected and a few cook book terms and lots of rules but real time is how we learn it -that and a few recorded consequences of what happens with a- d, or even a- g give or take a few variables can be found in study .Astrology process about practice, observation and intuition even bettering ourselves through its insights.
kate
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 8:18 AMKate, I'm sure that there are as many directions to go as there "astrologers". That's the whole point, really. My whole purpose for writing this was to set people free without engaging in any destructive clash of dogmas...and perhaps that will subsequently set the whole topic of astrology free to express what IT is as we open our minds to ourselves and each other.
>As for independently, as a child, I noticed the sky and star patterns certain times of the year there would be star patterns that would repeat themselves -the sun and moon made repeated themes too but at a faster rate.<
Yes, this was exactly the type of answer I was hoping for. When I was a child, I was fascinated with music-boxes. This became an archetype for me and I began to think of the world as being a music-box played to the rhythm of the stars, with life as a gradually changing symphony as the background music. Back then it was just a child's unadulterated intuition that there is some great logic or truth behind those patterns, but I had no specific concrete idea or dogma about it. I followed that intuition and sought to know the notes one-by-one.
>Well in real life try having a child who does not speak many words and she screams certain times of the day and it when the moon is rising and setting.<
Right. This is what I mean by direct observation, but what direct observations have YOU made in your life as you developed your faith in astrology as something real?
Theoretically, all ANYONE needs to do is have an ephemeris and a keen sense of judgement and observation and start living life. I want to know what people have observed for themselves in this manner which has reinforced or inspired their interest in astrology...and ESPECIALLY led them to develop their own ideas which may be different than traditional thought, or simply unique.
There is "Mexican" food from Taco Bell served by little Katie O'Sullivan on her summer break...then there is comida Mexicana autentica that real Mexican families eat at home in Mexico. The only way you're going to know it is to sit down and dine with a Mexican family when Mama doesn't have the ideal ingredients and has to improvise using her cultural background for inspiration. That's the way I'm thinking about astrology...in some cases served by people who follow recipes and other cases by people who have to blindly make something from scratch that WORKS and tastes good. In the beginning someone teaches us that chicken, corn and garlic are edible...the question is, what do we DO with it when no one tells what to do?
It's also true that when doing a jigsaw puzzle, it gets progressively easier when you find the right pieces and the pile gets smaller. There are usually "keystones" involved in such an endeavor, and we usually find such things by doing our own searching. Eventually we find something which just makes things easier for us for whatever reason. I'm interested in what personal TECHNICAL discoveries people have made about astrology through their own efforts, which made the whole mechanism of it easier to understand for them, and perhaps enabled them to be more accurate when sizing up a person using a birthchart, etc..
For me, one of my most important discoveries was the idea that the Moon sign is really the core of a person. I went by my logic that if the Moon is a person's emotional nature and response to the stimulus of life, then it must really be the core of a person...since what are we but a bundle impulses and feelings? So I started being especially interested in people's Moon signs, and upon learning them I often kept it to myself (because people often aren't completely aware of their Moon-sign tendencies) but I had a strong feeling that the Moon sign truly represented the person I was dealing with in the deepest sense, even if they are colored by other influences as well. YES, you have to deal with their Ascendant, their Sun sign, their Venus, etc...if you want to know them...but for me the Moon sign was like the pot of gold over the rainbow and I found that the closer I could get to that the closer and more understanding I get truly get with a person, and I truly felt that everything else is just an exoskeleton to be dealt with, while the Moon is the soul behind it all...and they are dealing with all the other stuff in their chart from this standpoint. If they have a Gemini Moon with Venus in Virgo, then the Moon is dealing with their Venus more than vica versa. Although I have refined this idea many times, I never had any need to modify it drastically...because it simply works, and I have been very satisfied with my partners through the years while thinking this way. That's one of MY personal discoveries. I'm interested in knowing the original perspectives of others which opened important doors for them in understanding the larger picture of astrology.
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Unsu...
Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 9:57 AMThis is a really cool subject! Maybe when I have more time I will add some thoughts. -
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 8:27 AMHee hee!
Youre in the same boat I was in for the past 3 months!
I just completed a move after basically living in two cities 400 miles apart simultaneously for a year.
Oh, for the record I AM NOW LIVING DIRECTLY UNDER MY Neptune Rising line, which passes right through this city. -
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 2:02 PMFJ, I relate to your discovery of the Moon sign as a core factor in your interpretation; my "aha!" moment came when I discovered that some charts (people) can be read almost solely on the personalized planets and lights, while some charts (people) can be read almost solely through the action of their outer planets and less personal aspects & configurations. Of course, all factors can & should be taken into consideration, but it's fascinating to me to watch the difference between "personal planet" people and "outer planet" people.
I don't understand Chiron yet, though, not really...I can't get a good intuitive grip on him!
In general, the thing that has benefited me the most is doing lots and lots of charts, of all kinds. After about your thirtieth or so, things just begin to click; you can glance at a natal chart and get a feel of exactly what to look for in the specifics. -
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Unsu...
Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 3:00 PMAt the moment, I am coming across a lot of interesting new ideas, things do not seem to be as static as they once were.
Actually, I picked up a book by Linda Goodman at about 17-18 and picked oput my moon sign - it was quite a deep sense of recognition, though disurbing too. But I found that most astrologers and literature I came across were very Sun-sign orientated.
In fact, I have found that most other people are relatively unaware of their moon signs too. I read charts every weekend at psychic fairs at one time, but as everyone was different and had different ways of understanding themsleves, then it was more of a question of explaining the chart ot them in different ways and in any case, often people came not to have their character read, but because they had a specific quesion or problem, or quite simply, were hoping not for Greater Understanding of their Souls, but for the thing that astrology had once been most famous for - Predictions. -
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 3:59 PMSo, how useful is astrology in a predictive sense? That seems to be what most folks really want, in one way or another...even the "soul-searching" kind are often after a greater predictability or degree of control over their lives. I certainly include myself in this!
Should we start a new thread? I'd be interested to hear others' opinions on the predictive usefulness of astrology...
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 4:38 PMI too started on Linda Goodman, and she was a GREAT start...but I outgrew her quickly. She usually only talks about Sun Signs. She had a GREAT judge of character and describes the general personalities of all the signs right along with SUB-personalities of each and every sign...some of which I really see. I think what she was seeing was simply, say, the difference between a Scorpio with their Venus in either Libra, Scorpio or Saggiatarius...because a Scorp can only have their Venus in one of those signs. I think Linda Goodman was really great for identifying astrology-based character elements in people, but she was not a great astrological technician or anything like that. She was a pioneer of modern astrological character identification. She wasn't the type of person who could put together intricate pieces in a lab, so to speak.
Personally, I think that points are much more important than planets or luminaries. This is one of my latest "aha's", as Lynda (tribe member) coined it. I have found that even if the inner person you are dealing with when you meet another person could very likely be their moon-sign...the Ascendant is the ULTIMATE crucible you have to pass through if you want t deal with thyem...and it is also the ultimate crucible THEY have to pass through if they want to truly understand what their life is all about. What blows my mind is how much a person can be like their ascendant...even if they have NOTHING in that sign or in the first house at all! All the other stuff in the horoscope seems to be like actors who can fool you into thinking that THEY are the actual person...but the ascendant seems (to me) to be what you have to deal with if you want to get "into" a person. YOu can set your sights on anything you want to that you like about the person...but the ascendant is the place where you meet them and they meet you....and it is's not something which becmoes less important the more you know them either. You have to deal with it first and foremost everyday that you know them. I made that mistake for years in thinkiing that the ascendant is just a superficial layer, and after you know about it doesn;t matter any more.
--------So this whole post is about these discoveries we have made, really, which unlocked our further journey into the abyss of astrological knowledge..without which we would not have gone any further. How have we learned from this, especially in ways which can't neccessarily be nailed down as "rules"?-------- -
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Unsu...
Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 5:59 PMFJ,
The fact that you took a part the music box is so cool -i think that was the first things I did as well.
It would be cool to a have one where there where constellations with light shining through the star while it spun music .
I certainly enjoyed Linda Goodman books , I read three of them.
I am and have been writing up with my own type of astrological rendition but I'll wait until I publish it before saying anything about it .
It is something i have been working on and off for for seven years .
I agree with you about the moon is has been a great teacher to me.
kate
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 4:21 PM>my "aha!" moment came when I discovered that some charts (people) can be read almost solely on the personalized planets and lights, while some charts (people) can be read almost solely through the action of their outer planets and less personal aspects & configurations.<
Thats' amazing, Laura! That's the kind of stuff I wanted to talk about. I have noticed similar things. There just seems to be more than one way to wire a system...and that is really how I look at a horoscope: Kind of like a circuit which directs a person's energy into a defaulyt pattern if they don't conciuosly choose to alter the pattern. And of course, that is possible through the use of Free Will. There seem to be times when there is NO conventional reason for one person to do something like, as you said tune in to outer planets...adn another person tunes into inner planets. I mean, maybe an Aquarius trying to keep his mind broad would pay more attention to his outer planets than a deeply personal Cancer who might tune into his personal planets more. Who knows...
There seems to be a alot of such things in astorlogy when you really take individuals into consideration and not just the rules.
I think yours is an AWESOME example of what I'm talkiing about, at least for starters on the topic.
Someone else mentioned synastry.
I had a big "aha" moment when my girlfriend told me that her childhood sweetheart, me, her landlord, her boss and a good female friend were ALL born within 2 days of each other (near Feb 6). So obviously something is going on here, right? The only aspect my Sun makes to any of her planets is a square to her Venus! That's not supposed to be good...but the plain fact is that after 3 years we are going pretty strong and recently decided to co-habitate. When we DO fight, our conflicts remind me more of an impatient Aries and a fussy Virgo. I finally discovered that her Vertex is conjunct the Sun Signs of me and all those other people who have very important relationsips with her. So that's a big "aha" thing, alright. It led to me to realize there is a HELL of lot more to relationships than Venus trines. I found that Midpoints often seem to have very comparable weight to aspects in any synastry comparison. But sometimes NOT! The question is, WHEN does one astrological principle become more prominent or important than another? It's almost like a difference between a vehicle that runs on gasoline vs. a car which runs on propane. Both ways work, but WHAT determines which one takes precedence? Is the person somehow more senstive to midpoints than aspects by subconcious subjective choice, or did something about the environment at birth (either terrestrial or cosmic) cause an entire life to be more in tune with midpoints than aspects.
Astrologers who write books rarely write about this heady stuff...and I'd say that's because they just haven't got the scrumples to approach it. It's much easier to stick to microcosms and write all about them than to sort out much larger patterns and anomales and try to make some sense of it without bringing quasi-religious preachings into it in the process. -
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 6:54 PM>There seems to be a alot of such things in astorlogy when you really take individuals into consideration and not just the rules. <
Yes! and it's really kind of difficult to explain, especially to folks who are only familiar with Sun-sign, Sunday-paper-horoscope astrology. It's also difficult for me to get a good feel of a person by using "cookbook" formulas anymore. I certainly did use them (Robert Hand's are some of the best, though I've burned through many dozens of astrology books!) and they were very helpful, but now it's more of an integrated, intuitive act.
>The question is, WHEN does one astrological principle become more prominent or important than another? <
This is also why I resent all those sites that charge people up to $100 for computer-generated reports. Some programs may be better than others, true, and even a basic listing of factors can be enlightening; but it's nothing like you'll get from a decent human astrologer!
I think one of the reasons we get so many basic books and "cookbooks" is because it's so difficult to really describe the intellectual/intuitive/imaginative process that goes into any truly complex task, astrology included. If I tell someone, for instance, that Saturn in the first house is likely to be a prominant factor, I must then list about thirty mitigating factors that would either strengthen or weaken the original hypothesis. Then, I'd have to list a handful of factors that would mitigate _those_ mitigating factors (a handful each, I mean.) We're up to more than 100 factors, just to judge the strength of one poor little Saturn!
A well-trained brain/gut can do this very efficiently, though, and in less than ten minutes. Amazing things, humans...
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 7:58 PMYes the astro stuff I’ve seen for years, and even the free stuff you can find always just turned me off.
This Planet in this house, and that means this, "You are going to....(specific statement)..."
way to general. Aspects you read don't seem to even put all the variables into account.
My Moon isn't just in the 7th house..and separately in Gemini, it is both, and if I add all the aspects, then I might be able to say something, somewhat true about it's essence..
What Grabbed me is, dancing in-between Sherpa, Sam and Zane about 2 years ago.
The combination of the 3 started to make this stuff hold something for me. Along w/ many others, and being involved in discussions. Mostly making a fool of myself I suspect, and felt for the most part, but oh well.. I learned a lot. But like I usually do
(0.28 Gemini moon 7th).. I just crammed my head full of info and stumbled around in it.
Then left it for about 6 months to stew..I’m am beginning to now find some cohesiveness w/ all this gobbltygoop..
I started out by making charts for everyone I knew well, lovers, family members, close friends, and Kids. Folks here too..
My kids I think is were I found more true essence in things, for I have watched them everyday or their life, and I'm more Mom, than Mom is, so their lives, to their very spirits, has always held alot of focus for me..Kid dynamics…weeeeee,, sorta..yikes.
(eyes wide open, overwhelmed look on face)
Then I asked a lot of stupid questions, and read a lot, always looking for the simple worded core, of it all .
I questioned, signs and houses, and looking at the planets as actual characters. I'm still working on alot of things, but mostly finding the essence of all of it. And just a few simple key words, that can speak for any situation..
That way it’s all just a set of Keys, to open what I can kinda see, w/ just a little hint.
Looking at charts, and then forgetting it all, and going about living in the dynamics of Kids family, folks in general. These dynamics of how people interact and feel and think about things has always held a high interest for me. Now I’m learning this new, Kinda Cool Tool man…lol..
And low and behold, I can.. for myself.. find exactly this in My chart.
Cancer, Sun, Mercury, NN in the 9th, and all the aspects involved.
I like seeing all the world, as all children, me included.. Can you say
Kinder-garden??...ha ha..
The other interesting one is 12th Nept conj Scorpio Asc. I see a lot !!, in there… Somewhere??
½ is totally delusional, the other ½, pure truth. Ok maybe 20%..lol
The point of this is, to distinguish which is which.. And enjoy both very much in their proper place..
This stuff, is just my new set of possible “keys”..
There, I think I involved most of the posts, wide open question..
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Unsu...
Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Tue, October 9, 2007 - 8:39 PMHow I taught myself astrology.... was by getting a feel for the inner planets... before moving onto the trans-personal, and outer planets...No point in studying something if you cannot get a grasp of the basics...
Paying attention to the Moon as it passes by... and the atmosphere of the envornment during different periods of its phases. How people react under different Moons, and also the effects of when the Moon would go VOC.
Next towards Mercury... Mercury being the 2nd quickest planet... always takes the nature of the planet to which it is in closest aspect at birth. Commuication isn't a hidden thing... Mercury, the conscious mind, is neither an automatic nor an unconscious power-it is the conscious ability to examine and question our own thoughts, as well as the ability to reason out new ways of doing things.... so it can be studied.
Then the Sun afterwards.....In the blance between the two. Tied off with what motivates you (Mars) and what you really want (Venus).
Thats basicly how I got a grasp between how the conscious and unconscious minds work together... -
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Wed, October 10, 2007 - 3:37 PMI started that way too, really, Allan I think it's very difficult not to.
Seeing the basics at work are enough to pique the curiosity and get people to join in discussion...but people become really invested in a topic when they make accidental highly validating discoveries of their own, however small.
You shared some interesting insights which sound similar to some ideas I've had. I'm curious to hear some examples, and especially more about Mercury taking on the nature of it's closest aspecting planet. In my case It's Neptune in Sagg, followed very closely by the Moon in Scorpio. Come to think of it, I do have a way of gleaning creepy, cryptic information from nature...like yesterday when I was at the library trying to choose a DVD for and my girl to watch. I asked the universe silently "Oh, PLEASE help me find something she will get into!". I was hoping one would fall off the shelf or something. Nothing happened. But the next day I was travelling to work and there was a car travelling frustratingly slow in front of me, license plate # DVD-4334!!!! Guess I'd be kind of ignorant iof I didn't at least SEE what DVD has the last digits 4334 in the bar code, wouldnt I?
Anyway, so you are also sayin thatthe Sun balances the energy of the Moon and Mercury?
Did you stumble on this?
You are saying my Sun is my ability to balance my head and my heart?
I could see it in some cases, but Mercury will also be in the same sign as the Sun more than 1/3 of the time I think...so doesn't that kind of make the Sun side with Mercury more than the Moon?
I can't argue with your claim that Mars is what motivates a person...
...but for the record, mine is in Aries and I do NOT get along with most Aries types, especially the moon Signs. They try very hard to motivate me and I do NOT want to be motivated by them. Venus in Aries is easier for me, but still NOT what I want. I find that Tauruses and Geminis have what it takes to motivate me largely because they make me ANGRY! ;-)
(Mars in Aries, me)
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Sat, October 13, 2007 - 3:30 AMWell I was trying to think of a way to connect without having the birthtime....Thats where I linked the 3 together.... Mercury, like Neptune are the two planets that crosses realms/boundries... As Mercury was best buds with both Pluto and Jupiter... As Above As Below...
Then in the myth between Hermes and giving his Lyre over to Apollo....for the heralds staff.
"Many "medical" organisations use a symbol of a short rod entwined by two snakes and topped by a pair of wings, which is actually the caduceus or magic wand of the Greek god Hermes (Roman Mercury), messenger of the gods, inventor of (magical) incantations, conductor of the dead and protector of merchants and thieves. It is derived from the Greek karykeion = "herald's staff", itself based on the word "eruko" meaning restrain, control."
Also the Hermetic arts...
Alchemy - The Operation of the Sun
Astrology - The Operation of the Moon
Theurgy (The Science or art of Divine Works) - The Operation of the Stars
Ill give you a quick stab on the relationship between the 3 on how I look at it....As I think studying the Moon Phase .... seems to be an art that has been forgotten....
Aquarius Sun, Scorpio Moon.... Waning Square
The Last Quarter Moon Personality
270 degrees to 314 degrees behind the Sun. This closing or waning square is similar to that of the First Quarter but at a more social level. Those first tensions were felt in an active, subjective, personal and directional way but this waning square presents a different set of challenges, those of tension in social consciousness or ideological awareness. This person is fraught with the stress of testing beliefs and ideologies, his own, those of others and those of society. He questions the validity of everything. He tends to a very objective point of view, and is capable of being quite demanding in the search for resolution of the questions he raises. Those born at this phase are confronted with many tensions between personal ideologies and beliefs and the realities of systems and facts.
He is torn between traditional values and futuristic trends. He can see the values in both and so often is caught in a dilemma of conscience. He keenly feels the urgings of groups and those with whom he associates and needs to fit with the structural norms and also incorporate his own ideals within those of the group. Thus, at a positive level he can achieve personal ambitions through the group, or change the group to suit his ends! Either way he is tied to the moral fibre of others.
Here are the philosophers of the world, who do not necessarily act to make reform happen, but push others into doing so, from a more 'managerial' stance. Such personality types require recognition from the 'system' and often work and live within strict boundaries and their dichotomy is that they wish that things were different. They often ask, 'why am I here', 'what is my purpose in life' So he can 'fit in' to a business world by day and an esoteric world by night! He is indeed more comfortable by night, if truth were told!
Now next would be blending this to fit into the signs of the Sun and Moon....
Aquarius.... independently, humanely, impersonally, creatively
Scorpio...passionately, intensively, secretively
He can be inflexible and so will experience loss as he has a natural tendency to set himself up for failure if he is not willing to embody new attitudes and change his behavioural patterns. He can swing between the secure and proven yet inwardly knows that he must change, or he will be left behind in the ever increasing pace of life. By working with his unconcious desire to understand all the workings of life, and though his compuslive tendencies... He is able to share his path towards liberation of self. He has no gadge on extremes, and by being blindsided by this, he can show others the way towards attachment and detachment... and how to control their own extremes.
Now Mercury...You say sextile to Neptune.... So Mercury would take on the personality of Neptune... The link between the Sun and Moon. The answer to the blend of the two. Mercury in Aquarius would point towards where it is applied at..Universal insights in relationship to spirtualism in connection to the group.... The mind is always thinking of the higher order you could say....
Ill leave it at there....
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Wed, October 10, 2007 - 2:37 PM>I just crammed my head full of info and stumbled around in it.
Then left it for about 6 months to stew..I’m am beginning to now find some cohesiveness w/ all this gobbltygoop..<
I LOVE the way you said this...and I think you'll find that Sam, Sherpa and Zane and myself and everyone else who can wield astrology as useful practical tool does it this way too...and now we are really getting to the core of what my post is supposed to be about: "How do we teach ourselves astrology?"
Everyone's stumblings will be different somewhat. In many cases we will have stumbled on the same obvious stones, but in some cases a person stumbles on something smaller...and that's what I want to hear about.
I'll tell you a secret:
I have been a virtual Tibetan Buddhist for many years, like pushing 20 now...and it is something I am very serious about...as serious as any Catholic is about Christ...yet I don't talk about it often. I say "virtual" because if I label myself as a Buddhist I am really not practicing the practical path to spirituality that Buddhism teaches. Anyway, I am fascinated with Karma and Dharma and the principle of suffering, and the idea of past-lives and reincarnation...and when I tried to integrate these ideas into my astrological studies I found that by thinking of astrological patterns whcih have been chosen by virtue of "path of least resistance" for a person...that is: What pattern most suits the soul they have created, as if to say: The Soul creates its own shape but not it's substance...then my ability to interpret charts and astrological patterns increased monumentally. In my own words, astrological patterns accomodate the shape of your soul.
So, lets take these astrological stumblings and surmise that perhaps it is not only the astrologer who has stumbled on them, but also the client or person who is having his chart read...and perhaps he does not stumble on all his stones. If this is so, then perhaps it is not so easy to know where the stones are when one does not stumble.
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Unsu...
Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Wed, October 10, 2007 - 3:09 PMThrough the years i have found the choice and usuage of word choice and narrow things down for me as well -I get rising sign easily when they are unknown-several that were later looked up were usually right on or within 4-10 degrees of what I got.
it freaky sometimes you know when you run into people with mixed up combos from your own and when i meet someone with the same moon sign as my sun I instictively know.
kate -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Wed, October 10, 2007 - 3:44 PMI think it can probably be pretty easy with time and experience to identify astrological patterns
and yet, not really know or understand a person at all
The disconnect between the two is troublesome; the muddled and lazy distinctions between "truth" and opinion - no matter how well-informed - appear to be the playmates of metaphor and pattern recognition in the metaphysical sandbox.
and while we do glean our insights from all variety of sources and experiences,
I guess one rhetorical question might be is what are ultimately the most important things to really know and understand.
~V~
~V~ -
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Unsu...
Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Wed, October 10, 2007 - 6:53 PMI guess my approach to astrology is a wee-bit idle in the classic gemini fashion, V
I don't actually apply it a whole heck of a lot when I am dealing with a person. I get to know them independently of the astrology and usually don't look at their chart until I have known them a while (well ok most all of the people I know-I have known them for years :P)
And yet, as I get to know them it is always like...AHA that makes sense...wow...I didn't expect astrology to be that true, neat.
I just run in little "astrological circles" in my head...to burn off all that excess mental energy I have (incidentally I blame that on aries 12th house and mercury in aries-my wheels never stop turning-I feel so sorry for all the over-worked hamsters in my brain!)
If it weren't astrology it would be math or theology or fantasy or something else. -
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Wed, October 10, 2007 - 8:16 PM"I guess one rhetorical question might be is what are ultimately the most important things to really know and understand."
Why !!
at least thats always been a big focus of mine.
I see people make judgements of things all the time, and even have strong opinions.
"Why" is always my question. why do I feel this way about...or why does this person react this way to something...
What made some jerk, a jerk?.. once opon a time he was just a baby like I was.
Why does this person think I'm an asshole and this other person thinks I'm really cool??
even why to I feel kinda cool w/ that one and fell I need to be an asshole to the other...LOL...
See Science.."Why?"
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Thu, October 11, 2007 - 5:50 PMYes, that's right, Pi.
I tend to develop astrology and relationships independently of each other...only cross-referencing when things really click into place. At times I try a little exeperiment, but I seldom use astrology as a problem-solving techniquein my relationships. They are just two separate things. As I know that in the ned everything is one, then I also know that sometimes astrology and relationships share spaces. Or perhaps only the spaces I am in. -
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Thu, October 11, 2007 - 6:35 PMI like sherpa's "Astrology is a language" thing. I'd agree FJ.. not as a problem solver, but posibly a good tool for identifying a problem. Even being able to see how you contribute to any tention. -
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Unsu...
Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Fri, October 12, 2007 - 7:17 AM"I like sherpa's "Astrology is a language" thing. I'd agree FJ.. not as a problem solver, but posibly a good tool for identifying a problem. Even being able to see how you contribute to any tention. "
Now I HAVE used this sort of "language-introspective-identifying" process with my own life and issues. I even have used my own chart to inspire me to try some experiments on myself and with great success!
I don't know why, when that other person gets involved-I just don't go there.
I think part of it is this: I know pretty well how far along I am in developing/expressing my own energies. I have some sense of where to start and where I need to go with myself.
To work on another in this way, I feel like I would need to understand not only their chart but also how they are operating with it. That takes a lot of time and work and in the process of learning about the other person/observing/listening I quickly get distracted from the whole chart thing.
It takes a lot of concentration for me to work on my own self this way and to analyze a set of synastry charts. It is hard for me to do both that astrological process AND get to know the person and where they are at at the same time somehow?
And it's funny because I am a HUGE multi-tasker!
I am rarely only doing one thing at a time...
But there are certain tasks like synastry charts, reading books, grading, teaching class, and certain highly involved video games that demand that I get absorbed in them and nothing else. I think honestly getting to know another person requires that kind of attention as well.
Other games like cards, blogging, cleaning, cooking, driving, tutoring, I can do in multiplicities of up to 4 at a time!
It kinda feels like my pisces sun-gemini rising actually represents 4 different persons...and some tasks take only one ...some take 2 and others take all 4.
If it takes 4 of me to do a synastry chart and 4 of me to get to know a person. I can't do them both unless I take copious amounts of time first just being with them and then after sitting alone and concentrating on the synastry charts between us.
But I think it takes just 2 or 3 of me to introspectively compare my self to my own natal chart and decide where I am in my process and where I need to go. So that can be done while I am driving or cleaning or cooking or playing cards or w/e no problem. -
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Fri, October 12, 2007 - 7:35 AMI could post it but I have a sanastry w/ a woman that Ive been in love w/ for 3+ years and worked togeather for 2 before that. I fell in love w/ and vice versa before I started looking into astro. Also a 20 year relationship w/ my kids mom.. relationship of parenting and such will never end even if we parted..
After feeling something I could really never Identify I finnaly a month ago got the TOB from this woman.
Low and behold I found conj galore.. and some squares. It's not that I put alot of focus on the Chart but knowing the placements after knowing in the back of my head alot of info helped me frame what I was sensing. Loke an exact conj of her Mars my moon squ- her Pluto my Uranus exact.. there is much more but this one I still am looking at as to what in means. It might be that not really understading astro too well yet give me a comparitive experience, to get a better understanding of what all these chart connections might mean..He Asc exact my sun...ect..
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Tue, October 16, 2007 - 12:13 PMSometimes different causes have the same effect.
Sometimes one cause has many effects.
Astrology is good for identifying these things when a person life or character is in question.
Lots of things can make you sneeze.
Not all medications will cure it.
Running a set of tests can tell you the most likely cause and how to deal with it.
Likewise in psychology and astrology.
But understanding what is likely happening by virtue of the "most likely" cause is a practical way to use astrology to educate your guesses about people. Using astrology to make such inferences is an excellent example educated guessing. Youre not going to get it very time, but maybe your score will still improve. I find astrology works pretty well for me, and helps me identify and clarify patterns in my own life so I can develop a better battle-plan for self-improvement.
I discovered that regardless of all the things in my chart, Moon in Scorpio and Mars in Aries probably characterize me better than anything else. The shoe fits so I wear it. I don't know why these two planets have colored my personality so extensively but they have. They are in a very loose opposition (within 8deg). Sun in Aquarius clearly takes a back seat to these in me, so I don't automatically follow whatever they say to do if you are an Aquarius. I go with whatever fits me the best. It could be that my own unique astrological circuitry makes it so that I have to be these things first in order to BE an Aquarius, and these "electronics" could be set up very differently in another person. Looking at each chart like a unique electronic circuit which is made of the same components as others, but is arranged so it does something unique...is onw way I metaphorically interpret astrology.
For some reason people seem to live out certain areas of their overall chart and not others.
Sometimes I think that some planets become internalized while others represent things going on outside yourself, and this varies from person to person. While in me Neptune might represent how I view the world (because it's on my ascendant), in someone else it could represent situations they endure at work. So if you look at planet "A" in one person's chart it may have nothing to do with their personality or character at all, while that same planet might practically sum up another person's personality very well, and when you deal with them you are dealing with that planet quite directly.
The greatest enemy of any astorloger is the application of too much ultimate meaning on one of these "electronic components"...to say that planet "A" is this or that. If you write that down and start to apply it as a rule you will immediately start to find your "rule" challenged.
For instance, I have found that things like houses can have just as much influence on "how you do this or that" than any planet. Having Mercury in Cancer is not neccessarily more important than teh same person having Aries on the 3rd House cusp and ruler Mars in Leo ...as BOTH will influence how you think and pursue knowledge...and maybe in some cases, for whatever reason, a person will be "wired" so that he operates more through one branch of his circuitry than another. There is a whole hidden subjective area of astrology which enables different people to utilize different astrological priniciples for expression. One person might be working more with his Midpoints in his life while another might be workign more with his aspects, maybe some peopel with both. It is a very subjective little world within a very objective box - we may underestimate how much we can move aruond inside there while also underestimating the boundaries at the same time.
I think that people who study astrology try to create too many rules.
In the initial post I made a point about how we can free astrology up to express what it is by itself! Rules don't do this. -
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Tue, October 16, 2007 - 12:16 PMKnowing a person well while also knowing his astrological chart helps you to continue to improve your knowledge of both.
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Wed, October 10, 2007 - 2:12 PM>Yes! and it's really kind of difficult to explain, especially to folks who are only familiar with Sun-sign, Sunday-paper-horoscope astrology. It's also difficult for me to get a good feel of a person by using "cookbook" formulas anymore.<
Uh huh. But it's strange that while there is obviously much more at play tan simple sun-signs, they also seem to be the easiest to interpret a good amount of the time. Just this past week I guessed my co-worker's wife as a Capricorn. All I did was listen to him describe her personaility. The next I did was guess one of my co-workers was Pisces. That's a 1/12 chance of getting it right, I might remind you! I used to know a guy who could not only guess sun-signs very acurately, if he knew that sun-signs of a man & woman he could guess the sun signs of their CHILDREN with such startling accuracy that people's kaws dropped. I don;t know WHAT "formula" that guy used...but it appears he developed his own. Anyway Laura, I do like the way you described "cookbook formulas", and I know what you mean. They often don't narrow a person down very well. I am a passionate intense sensitive Aquarius, my girlfriend is a quiet patient yet emotionally dependent Aries. Those are definately astrological contradictions! Then there's my best friend, the Libra...who is 100% Libra - his Scorpio stellium makes him intensely Libran and also filetrs and disposits through his Virgo Mars making him intensely fussy and wishy-washy and passive-agressive...but he doesn't really seem to give him any real Scorpio personality at all. The way his "filters" are arranged somehow made sure that he is a TRUE Libra.
>I think one of the reasons we get so many basic books and "cookbooks" is because it's so difficult to really describe the intellectual/intuitive/imaginative process that goes into any truly complex task, astrology included<
Yes, and it's funny how when we follow such rules we can be fairly close maybe 3 out of 5 times...but only 1/2 right on the 4th...and then DEAD wrong on the 5th try...and yet nothing seems to show itself as the culprit variable which "contaminated the equation or the data.
It's like...WHY does one person look more like his Ascendant than his Sun Sign...and another person looks more like his Sun Sign than his Ascendant? It seems that mayube we are just using using the wrong instruments...like, youre not going to see much in some cases with infra-red so we switch and use RADAR...but if we wren't even aware that there is more than one way to look at things we won't even bother breaking out with the RADAR when we really need it...unless we are aware that RADAR can see things that Infra-red can't. Likewise with technology and tasks, we need to find an astrology to fit a person, not a person to fit the astrology. Otherwise it would be like trying to find a task to fit a tool instead of a tool to fit a task. It's not to say we COULDN'T do it backwards...but fi we get stuck in certain astrological tehniques we will miss alot. Because of this astrology has been proven, but randomly. Much of what mainstream astrology teaches is stuff that leaked through the cracks becuase it was SO basic and true...(like all cars have wheels, you know?) but what about the more elusive stuff like what EXACTLY is under the hood? (I am talking about under the hood of astrology, not people)
Anyway, thanks to you and several other people I think I have been able to more clearly identify what I'm trying to talk about on this post...but I'd like to hear more key examples of the "asterisks" in astrology (of which must be infinite, I imagine)...which people have discovered on their own, and which inspired them to rise above generalities with out abandoning them. I'm trying to reveal the hierarchy of asterisks, per se! ;-)
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Thu, October 11, 2007 - 1:11 AMit wa reading linda goodman's sun signs book that got me interested in the archtypes. then reading chaucer with his bits of astrology thrown into it made me realise there was something more going on. so for a few months, i would go to the bookstore after work every night to read all the books they have there on astrology. i was initially more interested to find out if you can really pin these stereotypes to people that accurately and of course, find out about all the other elements of planets and what not fascinated me to no end.
suddenly i had a way to travel through the stars and planets - through astrlogy! i could go back into history through astrology. gives me an excuse to look at the stars at night :)
i spend alot of time devouring friends' charts, my chart and reading up on aspects that interest me. for example, i would read up all i can find on sun conjunct neptune because someone i know has that and it's fascinating to see if what i read has or will occur(ed) in their lives.
right now, the quest is to observe how the sun/moon combination manifests itself in a person. and lotsa moonwatching. and feeling everything... the people i am with. my cousin has a capricorn sun/virgo moon and we were chatting and i told him i know how it feels to not be able to do anything useful and be stuck in a work environment that he feels he cant contribute. you should see how his eyes bulged up and smiled. somebody finally uunderstood him. but what he doesn't know is that i just described the stereotypical exaltation of virgo.
no im not manipulating anyone. i just want to see how much of it works and how much of it people believe and how much of it is sterotyped and how much of it helps other people. during the lunar eclipse, a friend was in holidaying in amsterdam and wrote to me to ask me read a chart for a friend of hers who was going through a hell of a time. i did the best i could, told her not to take it too seriously and send her additional professional information as well. it made her friend feel better. so why not?
the more i learn, the less i know. and finding this tribe was one of the best thing. I learnt to much just from reading about everyone's experiences! -
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Sat, October 13, 2007 - 1:35 AMwow! What a great thread :D I'd like to add more to it but no time or energy right now.
I've only read part way through this, but wanted to mention a web site called the astrology X files. The guy has summaries of older texts that have been fairly recently rediscovered and translated. One of the things he mentions is that astrologers used to consider the sun as more important if the person was born during daylight hours and the moon as more (the most) important after sunset.
www.astrology-x-files.com/x-fil...t.html
Makes pefect sense to me...
There's a description there too of why the part of fortune is being calculated differently now - based on the same concept. Back to the older way.
I'm not too sure about 12th house stuff being so insightful for most people. I have mars in pisces in the 12th trining neptune & I do get things related to that realm in a spiritual way. More as patterns and permeating waves of insight coming through a visual fog though- not anything like electrons... More like something primordial. And I can feel things very specifically from that fog- mass and form, emotions, place and time etc and translate them in my mind into images at times. Electrons sounds more like uranus aspects or ruler or something than 12th house specifically.
BUT my mars is closely conjunct my asc and definitely is that sort of bridge between concious and unconcious. I have a few close friends with moon or venus in the 12th and two of them honestly do not have one clue a lot of the time as to what they are really feeling or how their behavior effects other people. If you ask them them about it in that moment they get very confused and downright panicky. It'd be interesting to figure out some of the stuff that might predispose someone towards using that realm for insight rather than being submerged in it. I'm sure there are other things besides planets conjunct the asc.
Thanks you guys, this is a really insightful thread! So much here! I'll be back to it later. -
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Re: How can we teach ourselves astrology?
Sat, October 13, 2007 - 1:46 AMOh.. wait. Maybe like electrons but not in that same way. Sometimes energy shimmers. But its not single electrons. Might be the energy they produce though. Might be related, and come to think of it, I have thought of it that way. Hmmm...
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