I have never gotten the depositer thing. If I track my chart like it were a road map, I think I end at Mars?? Or maybe the Moon or Jupiter, even Saturn. But like crusing around in my car, I might never end up in the same place..

Awesome Lite!,

I need some time to figure some stuff out on my own...will be back later to post more details and maybe discuss...

I heard of dispositors before but I admit I didn't understand it and just ignored it...until you brought it up...

--ken

Very good, Litestorm,

One of the things I mentioned in my post on the other thread about the ruling planet is that some people give the Final Dispositor of a chart (if there is one) a lot of weight. Some people even view this as a primary chart ruler.

In my chart, Mercury in Gemini is my final dispositor, and is prominent for several other reasons as well (ruler of my Sun sign; in a critical degree; in the house it has affinity with, the 3rd house.)

cool a proper place for a link to my dispositor chart:

people.tribe.net/kaimalino...ca34102660

it appears to me that mercury would be my key dispositor?

i also have been using this site's lesson:

www.skyscript.co.uk/dig5.html

to figure out how dignified or debilitated the planets in my chart are and so far mercury is the most dignified of the planets in my chart and being that it is also showing up in my sign as a key dispositor i figured it may be the strongest in my chart? any thoughts zane or anyone?

from what i can tell mercury is a key dispositor, saturn is off doing his own thang, and the sun, venus, and mars are having a pretty equal menage et tois (sp?)

also how valid are the house dispositors considered? there in my house dispositor's chart i have uranus doing his own thang and the sun, mercury, and venus are having a menage et tois with what looks like mercury being master over the other two.

Ok this is not to step on anyones toes, but I thought to give Zane a bit of a breather of having to explain everything. Some info from Wikipedia that I found, maybe of some help to those wondering (like me) about 'mutual receptions'. Of course the real Astrologers here may have something to say about Wikipedia's explanation...

And jeezus, I got Dragon's '4th House' thread on my mind too...pretty heavy stuff today...


"In astrology, mutual reception is a concept where two planets are placed in each other's signs of rulership. If the condition of each planet in mutual reception is strong, they will strengthen and provide assistance to one another. Some modern astrologers believe they will also take on some of each other's attributes.

Whenever planets are in mutual reception, they provide the native with additional forces to overcome difficulties that present themselves during transits affecting their signs and houses. Ancient astrologers called this condition "exchange of signs," and it was but one example of various forms of astrological reception, that is, assistance provided by one planet for another one which falls in signs where the first planet has dignity.

However, there are conditions where this helpful relationship is much weakened:

If one of the planets is in a sign of its detriment or fall, it is not likely to have the resources to be of much assistance to the planet it rules;
If the condition of one or both of the planets is otherwise impaired--such as by being placed in a sign that does not aspect the Ascendant sign (for example, the twelfth house), or retrograde, or combust or under the beams (that is, within fifteen degrees of the Sun), it will similarly be of less use to the planet it receives, in proportion to how poorly it is positioned;
If the two planets are not in astrological aspect to one other (that is, the signs in which they are placed are not in sextile, trine, square or opposition angles to one another, the condition of mutual reception will likely not obtain, since there is no connection between the two planets in which this mutuality can be effected. Furthermore, if the aspect between the two signs is one of opposition, the planets will both be opposite their signs of rulership, which is the definition of being in detriment, and hence both will be too weak to be of much help to the other.
For example, in a chart where Mercury is in Capricorn and Saturn is in Virgo, a strong mutual reception is in effect. Mercury is located in Capricorn, Saturn's domicile, or rulership, and Saturn is found in Mercury's sign of rulership and of exaltation, Virgo. The two signs are in trine to one another, and hence have a strong working relationship. In this instance, the individual with these placements would be likely to demonstrate a powerful, logical mind, with excellent ability to reason and strong habits of organization, as well as the likelihood of being a very hard-working, focused thinker. The relationship brings out the best attributes of Saturn's powers of organization and dedication and Mercury's facility of mind. Furthermore, transits affecting Mercury adversely would be mitigated by Saturn's strengths, and Saturn might be able to come to Mercury's rescue. Mercury might have the same function in the case of an adverse transit to Saturn.

If an individual has the Sun posited in Aquarius and Saturn located in Leo, both the Sun and Saturn are in mutual reception, since the Sun's own house is in Leo, where Saturn is located, and Saturn governs the sign of Aquarius, where the Sun is positioned. However, in this example, since the signs of Leo and Aquarius are opposed to one another in aspect, the mutual reception may be of little value. Located opposite their own houses, in the signs of their detriment, both planets have little dignity, and without other very strong placement factors to compensate for this, the mutuality is probably not a factor in the individual's life

Similarly, with Venus in Virgo and Mercury in Libra, there is inherently a weakness in the mutuality of the relationhip. Venus in Virgo is in fall, and can provide little support for Mercury, although Mercury, if otherwise powerful and well-positioned (for example in the first house or tenth house), may be helpful to Venus. But the relationship is further impaired by the fact that the signs Virgo and Libra are in aversion to one another--that is, they are not in aspect--and hence there is no easy way for these two planets to work together.[1]

Mutual reception is not limited to exchange of the signs of dignity of rulership. Ancient and medieval astrologers gave equal force to mutuality obtained by planets being in each other's signs of exaltation--for example, Jupiter in Taurus in a chart where the Moon is in Cancer. Jupiter is exalted in the sign of Cancer; Moon is exalted in the sign of Taurus. This is a very powerful mutual reception, not only because Taurus and Cancer are in a sextile aspect to one another, but also because the Moon is also in its own house in Cancer. This placement would tend to give a notably generous and probably religious individual, with a good deal of luck and talent.

Ancient and medieval astrologers also considered mutual reception by triplicity rulerships, and by terms or bounds rulerships. Even mutual reception by face was considered, although, unlike the other four dignities, of very little overall impact. Furthermore, "mixed" mutual reception is also taken into account--for example, when one planet is in the sign of another planet's exaltation, and the second planet is at the same time in the sign of the first planet's rulership."

Litestorm,

Thanks for posting this! I was just working on it the other day (still am). i'm beginning to think that equal importance should be placed for the ac ruler and the final depositor(s). and what not with their aspects included!

The key, the way i see it, is to perhaps see how the energies manifest in a person and if one sometimes feel the main enrgies pulling / dominating one another or combining forces.

Mercury and Venus are both strong planets in my chart. I identify very strongly with them. Then I generated a chart with your link and found that jupiter and saturn are also strong planets in my chart and i think about how i use those energies. and still thinking....

well, for one i do know that jupiter is very very good to me. i feel like jupiter's favourite grandchild most of the time, getting treats, tickets to shows, shield me from discipline..etc. saturn on the other hand is the grandfather that makes me clean the house because he believes its a lifeskill.

but where are my outlets for saturnian and jupiter energy? where do i let it out? i know where my mercury and venus go. more often than not, i feel one planet bullying the other. so now there may be 4 planets trying to win the school bully title? in fact, thats what prompted me to ask the question of chart rulers. get my planets to understand they work best if they ruled together. thus start the delicate art of balancing..

hi.

Litestorm or Zane or anyone who has an answer:

so when i run my chart per instructions on astro.com it provides 4 charts: 2 deal with signs, 2 with houses.

so am i correct in believing that you could do this exercise in two ways? one by what sign a planet is in and one by what house a planet is in? meaning by looking at a planet's natural house in place of looking at a planet's natural sign?

and then it says that there is hierarchy and wheel.
these are merely different stlye for mapping out what is found, correct?

Everything?

Mercury rules both my Sun and AC. The Sun final deposits in the 5th house. Pluto final deposits in Scorpio. Chiron tightly conjuncts my AC and Uranus opposes it. Mars is exalted in Capricorn. If I go off of my guts, I'd say Mercury is the focal point.

Zane, Lite, or anyone,

Ok, I've tried to figure this out on my own but need help (Zane/Lite you got my details)

I have the standard chart ruler as the MOON.
And now I know that I have a mutual reception between VENUS and SATURN (w/trine aspect)

..so what would be my 'main' planet???

Sun Pisces
Moon Libra
Mercury Aries
Venus Pisces
Mars Scorpio
Jupiter Capricorn
Saturn Scorpio
Uranus Sagittarius
Neptune Capricorn
Pluto Scorpio
Lilith Pisces
Chiron Taurus


All seems to lead back to Pluto if you take Pluto as Scorpios ruler. What about dual rulership though?

It is interesting to determine what the most influential planet in a chart is, because in addition to the chart ruler and final dispositor, astrologers also consider the most elevated planet in the chart, as well as the most aspected planet - which may not fall into any of the above categories! So, many times I find I have to dig and simply use my intuition regarding the energies. And sometimes it is difficult to determine.

For example, I have Venus at 0 Libra (critical degree) conjunct and ruling my Ascendant at 6 Libra from the 12th (in the Gaugelin sector).

My dispositors are Venus, and Mercury - Pluto (mutual reception).

My most elevated planet is Uranus in Leo in 10th and is heavily aspected by the personal planets.

In this case, it is difficult to determine which planet is most influential.

Any body have a viable technique for determining the most influential planet in cases where multiple planets are strong.

What if I have Moon in Scorpio with Cancer on the 8th House cusp?
This is certainly not a "true" final dispositor, obviously...

...but my 8th house is ruled by the Moon, and my Moon is is the traditional ruling sign of this house. My Moon's South Node is also in the 8th. So how does this drama unfold? Maybe I'm too close to the fire to see it.

Hmmm....looks like my final dispositor is Mars. I feel that Neptune (Pisces rising) is a more accurate rulership of my chart than Mars. I will have to chew on it for a while though.

Viki, you have an interesting point. I think I have a lot of other Neptunian influences, such as Neptune is conjunct my MC. Jupiter is also heavily aspected and so is Mercury. Over all, though, I feel more Neptunian. Is there a tried and true method to compare the rulership qualities?

people.tribe.net/seaoglass...471286674a

Alan Oken says that there can't be a final dispositor whenever there's mutual reception, and that the final dispositor has to be in the sign of its own rulership.

I don't have a final dispositor either. My most elevated planet is Neptune. Mercury and Uranus are the dispositors of the chart. Natally they sextile each other. Mercury is in its own sign and in H6, its own house, so I would have to say that Mercury is my final dispositor.

Alan Oken's book covers things like what does it mean if the ruler of H1 sits in H9 and things like that. It covers mutual reception, planetary strengths and weaknesses, the ruler of the horoscope and its aspects, a useful book.

I don't think it's about rulership FJ. I think it's almost like an energy trial or feeling/thought process, a series of sequences the chart follows and in turn the person follows in all areas of their life. It might even make sense to apply it to a path to their final goal in life. These are just my thoughts, not an expert on the topic but it seems to apply to me. For instance lets say something happens, I will most likely start getting emotional and dreamy about it (Sun-Pisces), that will lead to either Neptunian thoughts or Jupiterian thoughts, those are in Capricorn so I will basically have to (VERY) soon come down to earth and be more practical or wait for Saturn to smack an even harder hand down which will not be good. I've seen in my life that the Saturn point is a pivotal point where things can either turn for the worse, stay okay or get better, especially in a case of an important thing that has gone on unrealistically for too long. My Saturn is in Scorpio which is ruled by Pluto so I will eventually start thinking about how the final outcome of events has transformed my life and how I can use what I've learned for my betterment: what has to die, what I have to discard and reinforce, be it parts of me or even myself, so that I can evolve and rebirth as something better and more powerful. Some sequences are shorter, like Mercury in Aries, Uranus...but I can really see how the trail is true to every event, thought process, interaction, everything I do in my life and so perhaps the trail of my entire life as well.

Some more info I found that might be right:

Dispositors are a way we can look at astrology with a systematic approach. Astrology is no different than life with respect to the fact that everything is inter-related. People need support, and a feeling of connection. The planets operate the same as people. They need support and connection. The make-up of a chart involves how the planets are connected. This can be seen as the circuitry of a chart. I see it as how a chart is wired giving great depth into the life’s karma. Events play out systematically according to the patterns. You will be able to see the root cause of any behavior and situation based on the planets associations or connectors.

You may find as you follow the planet's dispositors around the chart, one planet will end up as the final dispositor. It will be in it’s own sign of rulership, because when a planet is in the sign it rules it disposits itself. This is why planets in their sign of rulership are so strong and intense. Example: Saturn in Libra is dispositor by Venus, Venus in Sagittarius is deposited by Jupiter, Jupiter is in Gemini is disposited by Mercury, Mercury is in Virgo, since Mercury is ruled by Virgo it cannot go any further. In this case it is the final dispositor, meaning the energy of the chart is focused through Mercury. A final dispositor will be one of the most significant planets in a chart. There can be a planet that is a final dispositor of other planets in the chart, but one final dispositor of all the planets is rare.

Wow, this thread is pretty neat and something I didn't know before.

I have a Mercury-Neptune-Jupiter Mutual Receptor that most of my planets lead back to (except sun and mars, which are mutual recepters but neither give nor recieve energy)

That feels right, because Mercury is about communication, Neptune in my chart is about fantasy and daydreaming, and Jupiter is about growth etc. Since I'd like to make money (Jupiter) by telling a story via a webcomic (neptune being the fantasy story and mercury being the communication via the comic) that totally makes sense.

The whole Sun-Mars thing makes sense too. Since I have leo ascending and Mars is in Leo that might explains why I 'feel' more like a leo than an aries. (But then my sun is in aries so wouldn't that be the same? Oh wait I guess that's why they call it a mutual receptor.. duh!)

The chart on astrodeinst also shows house energy.. and that's even more interesting! I have two mutual receptors there that do not give or recieve energy to anyone. Pluto-Mercury and Saturn-Venus. Everything else channels to Mars via Jupiter via Sun. (Since almost everything channels to Mars in an unlinked final depositor (non-mutual) does that explain why I'm always so horny and does my Saturn-Venus Mutual Depositor explain why I have a hard time finding love... hrm.. must ponder.)

Ok, I've finally have gotten around to checking.

I have three, Mercury in Gemini in the 3rd is the strongest becaues it's in it's natural house and sign and also because of the many links to the other planets. The Moon in Aquarius and Neptune are the other two dispositors. The Moon in Aquarius is in the 10th, Neptune in the 7th in Libra, so alllllll that air....whooosh. So 10th house = career, neptune(film,music,photography) in Libra in the 7th, partnerships, mercury in gemini in the 3rd, endless curiosity and communications.

mercury of course rules.....how much more gemini, though i try to fool myself in thinking that the venus in aries rising rules but it's just a cover, a disguise for the book worm, researcher, tinker,dreamer underneath it all.
Thanks Litestorm.

Here's my info: Dec 26 1972 at 2:34pm in Orange, CA

I think my primary planetary depositor is Jupiter with the other two being Mercury and Saturn.

My primary house depositor is ruled by Venus followed houses ruled by the Sun and Pluto.

IM pretty sure my final dispositor is Mercury since I got a Virgo Asc, and a Gemini MC... with Mercury in Cancer Sextile Asc, Semi-Sextile MC....Mercury in 10th, conjunct to Castor.

Moon in Virgo mutual recept Mercury in Cancer
Mercury in 10th mutual recept Saturn in 3rd

My chart got actually quite a few dispositors, does that mean I am scattered energy? I got 2 sets of mutual receptions, and 2 planets in their own signs...

By houses is 2 sets of mutual receptions.....

Both sides have Moon and Mercury as being on top, but part of a mutual reception.

Allan