http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b?format=rss Tribe.net. Local Connections http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#055ec03b-5bac-45dc-9cdf-b7441c1b1973 pluto and acid/drug trips.... ?? has anyone explored this correlation? has anyone read diary of a drug fiend by crowley? Tue, 14 Jul 2009 07:29:57 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#055ec03b-5bac-45dc-9cdf-b7441c1b1973 $item.owner.firstName 2009-07-14T07:29:57Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#0ac994ac-91c9-4e2a-b36c-a21d50a3a707 Anyone that is researching PLuto a bit further I'm posting a link to a thread on PLuto transits where there is lots of great info: http://tribes.tribe.net/plutotransits/thread/f8dc9558-0785-4df0-b655-0412d9e1e864 Tue, 07 Jul 2009 00:14:42 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#0ac994ac-91c9-4e2a-b36c-a21d50a3a707 Paul 2009-07-07T00:14:42Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#a260a0e0-69e9-440f-b1e1-22a683c35d9e I haven't really been thinking about specific physical phenomena as such, but yes, I think modern man is still in denial. It's strange how eight years of a certain political cabal has set us back in such a way that we are going to suffer the consequences more rapidly and vehemently. Pluto will surely continue to reveal the true motives behind the directed manipulation that is expressed through the shady dealings via hedges funds and oil contracts. Power is shifting towards a new paradigm, but which one? On the long run, yes Isaac, climate change will alter our civilization and values irrevocably. Midnighter, that is an interesting way of putting it. How do you see this "amplification of the earth's own energy field as the emerging dominant power source"? You mean we will learn to harness the power of the earth's magnetic field? But yes I agree, our generation will see an end to "the collapse of the current era's false materialism", but I think it will transcend just a shift in attitudes and values, I think we will witness a polar shift of consciousness - becoming aware that the earth's condition reflects our own collective unconsciousness, as the earth is the physical body of the planetary mind, and humanity collectively is part of that mind. If we start experiencing the reality of not just the physical repercussions of our ungratefulness, but also the spiritual, we will start to act on our responsibility. The only way for this to happen, is when Pluto will reveal the true nature of our material reality, as being a part of reality, not reality itself - An occurrence of such magnitude, that nobody will be able to deny it's meaning. Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:46:09 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#a260a0e0-69e9-440f-b1e1-22a683c35d9e Partha 2009-07-06T11:46:09Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#8d3f7b75-c2dc-4db4-a101-b0a6949ac92d "Saying that Capricorn is about the transformation of matter into spirit is true, but what does that really mean? " Doesn't the cardinal earth sign symbolize the source of the powers of earth ? if so, wouldn't this Capricorn era synchronize with the amplification of the earth's own energy field as the emerging dominant power source ? Is the earth really calling the shots here ? And if so, wouldn't this be the real reason beneath the collapse of the current era's false materialism, excess consumerism and fascistic capitalism ? Is it the Earth's turn ? Sun, 05 Jul 2009 20:24:41 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#8d3f7b75-c2dc-4db4-a101-b0a6949ac92d katrina 2009-07-05T20:24:41Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#45df375f-d723-4bac-85a3-bc14c091d6ab Partha, Do you see climate change as one of the forces at play here? Reaping what we have sown.... I personally believe climate change will be one of the dominant catalysts in purging the collective delusions we have been living.... Sun, 05 Jul 2009 20:03:23 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#45df375f-d723-4bac-85a3-bc14c091d6ab Isaac 2009-07-05T20:03:23Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#fa0423f8-a77d-426a-800e-43f555df883c Most of us are very much addicted to our comfort zone (Cancer) and feel entitled after a long day's work or career to do what we feel we have a right to (Capricorn) - our risen heights of status and selfworth are defined by our being accesories to the great delusion. So what if we rape the weak, pillage the earth and leave nothing for future generations? We have sacrificied so much of ourselves, we don't have to be nice. Still, whether we'll survive all this or not, it's about who we are now that will define who we will be...Pluto is the only one giving us the strength to see that true -without quarter, ceaselessly pushing us beyond - where are we going? Capricorn, so much happening there the next few years: Pluto, the nodes moving in and the eclipses...To really understand what will happen to this planet the next few years, we have to understand the true nature of the sign Capricorn. Saying that Capricorn is about the transformation of matter into spirit is true, but what does that really mean? Pluto is digging up some old dirt, something ancient that will shake the status quo, that will shake usout of complacency Sun, 05 Jul 2009 19:51:07 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#fa0423f8-a77d-426a-800e-43f555df883c Partha 2009-07-05T19:51:07Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#3de14569-3d55-46a3-88a4-1425facd7b87 We had better get busy then, because the opposing tide is still strong and not at all easy to quell. Exposure is just the first step of a difficult process, and so far, it doesn't look like we have changed much of what has been exposed. In fact, many people are still buying it in the new spins it has. Sun, 05 Jul 2009 18:59:29 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#3de14569-3d55-46a3-88a4-1425facd7b87 amiablehermit 2009-07-05T18:59:29Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#83841fa8-a258-4a4b-a773-8efc44e62912 I agree, Pluto will bring many kinds of hidden agendas to the surface in plain view - as a matter a fact, last fall was but a prelude of things to come. The facade that is presented to the general public by big business and government will be torn down, their true motives exposed. But this will also extend to our individual lives where the authority of people using intimidation and manipulation will no longer be fed by large scale shared infrastructure and value-systems that are based on fear and opportunism- as they are in the process of elimination right now. The very relationship between emotion, energy and matter and the responsability coming from realizing this, will become manifest to the masses during Pluto's sojourn through Capricorn. This will become even more apparent during next summer's T-cross when Uranus and Saturn will oppose eachother in Aries and Libra, with other planets joining them there: something's gotta give... Yes, among other things, Capricorn rules power-structures, but more importantly, Capricorn rules the legitimacy of power - a secret only shared by those humble enough to serve. Sun, 05 Jul 2009 18:52:26 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#83841fa8-a258-4a4b-a773-8efc44e62912 Partha 2009-07-05T18:52:26Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#fad4c600-937c-458c-8843-b7a83319f5e5 When I say trend, I am thinking the long term direction we are moving..... I see this trend of reclaiming pluto energy/power in the pluto in Leo generation, and each generation that has come after. I think it could take generations to re-integrate pluto into the cultural/human collective mind. The pluto in capricorn generation will play an important role in this, but so will Pluto in Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, and Sagittarius, and future generations.... Sun, 05 Jul 2009 18:24:17 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#fad4c600-937c-458c-8843-b7a83319f5e5 Isaac 2009-07-05T18:24:17Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#c946c440-7c3f-43f0-8584-475373ea8e37 Od "More than any other, Pluto is the planet that defines generations -- by sign position" I completely agree with you on this! Pluto through the signs really raises andtransforms mass conciousness whether it be sexually in the 80s or financially and planetary resources based like today. Sun, 05 Jul 2009 16:32:20 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#c946c440-7c3f-43f0-8584-475373ea8e37 Paul 2009-07-05T16:32:20Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#bfc75bc8-154e-4663-a5dd-c288efcdcb10 Annihilation of the present corrupt infrastructure works for me. Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:58:47 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#bfc75bc8-154e-4663-a5dd-c288efcdcb10 amiablehermit 2009-07-05T15:58:47Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#2720fb1d-8614-4b3b-890a-38ab0c14e8d7 Natesa, You asked: " "I would say this trend is shifting towards taking our power back" Do you think Pluto moving into Capricorn has got something to do with that? " I think now that Capricorn (duty, also career) modifies Pluto (transformation), this will be a time of career and business transformation. Businesses are going to need to destroy and rebuild themselves in order to survive this new Pluto energy. Business-like, Tim Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:49:10 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#2720fb1d-8614-4b3b-890a-38ab0c14e8d7 Tim 2009-07-05T15:49:10Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#8a4de9a5-3430-43f6-81aa-c441e7489e45 "I would say this trend is shifting towards taking our power back" Do you think Pluto moving into Capricorn has got something to do with that? Sun, 05 Jul 2009 12:32:06 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#8a4de9a5-3430-43f6-81aa-c441e7489e45 Natesa 2009-07-05T12:32:06Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#25d584bb-3636-4162-9bfe-d84c0e9da690 Your welcome Paul. For me sharing this stuff, writing it out, and looking at it with as much clarity and honesty as I can muster is part of my personal healing and also an expression of my 7th house Pluto in libra sextile my North Node, Neptune, MC conjunction in Sagitarius. I am passionate and a bit obsessed with sharing my experience of Pluto energy and relating my perceptions of it. :D Pluto energy is not an easy power to integrate by any means.... Pluto deal with some of the most painful spheres of existence like birht, death, change and transformation. I see the gift of integrating Pluto energy as the experience of how everything is interconected, and birth life and death are all part of an interconnected cycle that you are vital part of.... Deeply experiencing your part in the interconnected cycle were you can feel and know at a deep level how the energy of the sun, gives life energy to the earth, plants and animals, and we eat the plants and animals and turn them into shit, which the earth gladly reclaims to her stock of elemental components and building blocks that form the foundation of the material plane. Rotting flesh and shit stink but there decay and re-integration into the earth provides the building blocks for new life to born and grow. The pain and loss of living and dying suck, but when you experience the interconnection of the cycles of birth, living, dying and death, it makes it all less scary, and often more beautiful.... There is so much more to it as well..... I feel that Plutonian power has been harnessed and warped in our social and cultural spheres, placing the power of life, death, reproductive rights, money, the fruits of our labors into the hands of external institutions(governments,religions, god). We look to and/or are programed to give our plutonian power away, instead of clamming this power for ourselves(I would say this trend is shifting towards taking our power back). Sat, 04 Jul 2009 22:42:00 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#25d584bb-3636-4162-9bfe-d84c0e9da690 Isaac 2009-07-04T22:42:00Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#ad9e42f0-86bd-42c9-a4f1-f834a9c9e27f "My natal Pluto is at 8 deg. Libra at the edge of the 7th house, 2 deg away from the 8th." Mine is conjunct my ascendant in Scorpio. "Pluto has been a dominant force in my my life for many year in a few different ways. Having all my personal planets in scorpio brings a pluto flavor to many facets of my life as well." Yep... loving, learning and living with. Still grasping a greater understanding of it, personally. Thank you for sharing this Isaac. I feel you on the 7th house thing. Mine is opposite Jupiter, mercury and Sun in 6/7H. Thanks again. Sat, 04 Jul 2009 16:54:54 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#ad9e42f0-86bd-42c9-a4f1-f834a9c9e27f Paul 2009-07-04T16:54:54Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#26256a5f-160a-4d30-826f-6cb48d15c8bb Isaac, You said: "I think it depends on who your labeling a terrorist, how you define terrorist, and what is motivating the "terrorist's" behavior." Since "terrorist" is a sensitive term, we can use another word for it. Let's call it instead, "freedom fighter". And even if you relabel a "terrorist" as a "freedom fighter" (for example), the Uranus energy of restructuring and rebuilding is still there. Let's take the example of a person who is in Nazi Germany (always a popular place to talk against! ;-) ) trying to get the people to rise up in revolt and overthrow Hitler. Even though we agree with the motivation of this person, the EFFECT of what they are doing is attempting to tear down an existing structure, in this case an attempt to tear down Hitler's Germany and replace it with something else. In all cases where someone is trying to tear down an existing structure and put up something else in its place, you will find Uranus-type energy. Explaining more, Tim Sat, 04 Jul 2009 15:05:09 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#26256a5f-160a-4d30-826f-6cb48d15c8bb Tim 2009-07-04T15:05:09Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#accf73fe-82a6-42f7-90ed-fdaea2d5ccb2 I fully agree with Od on the generations. At work I see a lot of people and I immediately feel the difference between say a pluto in libra or a pluto in scorpio. I notice the leo & libra generations tend to be a lot more focussed on appearance and living a life of luxury; they tend to be a lot more demanding as well - as if the world exists to provide them with whatever they feel they deserve- whereas the other generations (virgo and scorpio) tend to be modest, easy going and focussed on giving rather than receiving. Needless to say I prefer dealing with a virgo or scorpio pluto :-) Sat, 04 Jul 2009 05:39:59 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#accf73fe-82a6-42f7-90ed-fdaea2d5ccb2 Unsubconscious 2009-07-04T05:39:59Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#70344d1c-93a8-49de-aa0c-ff1937b905ef More than any other, Pluto is the planet that defines generations -- by sign position. The orbital period of Pluto is 248 years, so Pluto spends slightly less than 21 years in each sign, on average -- traditionally, a "generation" is taken to be about 20 years. Actual times in each sign may vary, because Pluto alternates between direct and retrograde motion frequently. This makes the edges between generations fuzzy -- as they do seem to be -- although each generation overturns the previous one, and transforms the world in some way. Pluto is a better indicator of generations than the demographic data some sociologists rely on. For example, the generation that revolutionized the world in the 1960s was born with Pluto in Leo (roughly 1937 to 1958, with some overlapping of adjacent signs). Sociologists typically confuse that generation with the post-WWII "baby boom" from 1945 to 1964, based on birth statistics. That's just plain wrong. Many leaders of the 60s cultural revolution were born earlier than 1945 (John Lennon and the other Beatles, for example), and people born with Pluto in Virgo -- roughly 1956 to 1972 -- were quite distinct from the earlier wave (Madonna and Michael Jackson, for example). Pluto in the signs: http://www.trans4mind.com/personal_development/astrology/LearningAstrology/signsPluto.htm Sat, 04 Jul 2009 05:25:33 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#70344d1c-93a8-49de-aa0c-ff1937b905ef Od 2009-07-04T05:25:33Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#d157b0d2-fe0b-4fb0-bdd1-a09cd2b936cd My natal Pluto is at 8 deg. Libra at the edge of the 7th house, 2 deg away from the 8th. Pluto has been a dominant force in my my life for many year in a few different ways. Having all my personal planets in scorpio brings a pluto flavor to many facets of my life as well. I can most clearly see how my Pluto plays out in my 7th house. Relationships are a very import aspect of my being, and they are one of the stronger vehicles for transformation in my life. Relationships have also been one of the greatest sources of pain and heart ache, but it has all been valuable experience... I read a great article today about pluto in Libra, that made lots of things click... http://devagreen.com/plutolibra.htm I have also have some experience with transiting pluto... Transiting Pluto was a dominant force in my life from age 7 to 20. I would say these were the hardest years of my life. Primarily because I raised a lot of wall in my being to cope with the experiences and intensity of feeling and/or repression of feeling. I felt out of place most everywhere but at home. I was blessed with amazing parents who loved me unconditional, taught me to communicate, encourage my creativity and unfolding as an individual. They never tried to mold me into anything, not that they could have if they tiered... ;) They were the only force in my life that kept me alive when I had a powerful urge to be dead. It started with transiting pluto conjunct natal uranus at 29 deg libra, 8th h. I think this is around the time my babysitters son started sexually abusing me. The exact dates are a bit fuzzy some time between 1982-83. I can not remember any specific events for Pluto conjunct, mercury(exact in 1984), mars(exact in 1987)...... The moon, sun, venus, conjunctions are etched deeply in my psyche and I remember most of it..... Pluto hit my moon in 1990 and this when I first told my parents that I was sexually abused. It was also one of the most difficult times in my life, being a teenager and all. Deep feelings of alienation, depression, with very few pleasant memories. (the rest of my experience during the pluto conjunctions is from a letter I wrote to my dear friend and cancer confessor)... I know exactly what was going on when pluto conjunct my natal sun back in the fall of 1992 I was going through one of the most important periods of change and growth and hell in my life. That was around the time I was desperately trying to drop out of high school. At the time I was very depressed, and I had an aching wanderlust to go to California or anywhere far away from Ashtabula, Ohio. It was my seinor year of high school. The year got off to a shity start mainly because my senior English teacher had me suspended the first day of school because I had green hair.....no tolerance for freaks... she made my life a living hell. After a month in school it became apparent that I would almost certainly fail senior English. Then I got sick. I ended up in the hospital with strep throat, mono, b12 anemia, malnutrition and dehydration. This was a blessing and the beginning of the end. I think I missed a month of school, and parts of it were hell. I remember going out into the meadows around our house and picking deadly night shade to make tea so I would continue to be sick and unable to go to school. I had some crazy deletions from that tea, thinking my parents were aliens and my whole life was an experiment, and my parents were in on it and they knew I did not belong here... It was a crazy time. I was also dealing with one of my first heart break experiences at this time. Her name was Mia and she was catholic school girl. She relished taking me to her house and freaking her mother out with my freakiness(I had green hair and a nose ring. It was freaky for Ashtabula in 92 :). I remember having this conversation with her when she broke up with me. She said we were too different and we wanted different things, She said she wanted a nice house, to be taken care of etc.... I remember saying I wanted to be a homeless vagabond... I wanted to be free...... I remember feeling like there was something wrong with me, and that I was not worthy of being loved.... A theme I am still rooting out of my being.... I can not remember at what point my parents got me into therapy. I think it was before I got sick, but I managed to convince my therapist that dropping out of high school was the best choice for my mental health. She was very cool and supportive. Life slowly got better after that, and I started coming into myself, and living life with passion for the first time in years..........(end) ------------------------------ Over the years I have grown to love the transformative power of pluto. I think most of my appreciation and integration of pluto energy has been catalyzed by Neptune and Chiron slowly squaring each of my Scorpio planets. . That has had it's own flavor of hell, but also a good deal of love, joy, and deeper understanding of my inner workings, warts and all.... I know there are lots of other forces at play, but theses have been the easiest to correlate with life experience Sat, 04 Jul 2009 03:48:28 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#d157b0d2-fe0b-4fb0-bdd1-a09cd2b936cd Isaac 2009-07-04T03:48:28Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#a365ce1f-23cd-4ece-aa0a-40c9dee1225d I think it depends on who your labeling a terrorist, how you define terrorist, and what is motivating the "terrorist's" behavior...... Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:30:56 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#a365ce1f-23cd-4ece-aa0a-40c9dee1225d Isaac 2009-07-04T00:30:56Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#450d0f8e-5cbc-4c3e-9ee6-6cfa68e05b41 Aghora is a Vedic tradition which tenets and virtual lack thereof are unmistakably Plutonic. It's training involves practices that can only be described as antinomian - they seek to unify the mind by destroying what comes natural to it :the tendency to look at the world through dualistic glasses. By confronting themselves with their greatest fears and desires without reacting to them, they become masters of their shakti (primordeal energy) and progress from darkness to light, from delusion to truth. In every living moment they recognize an opportunity to transmute their mortal personality into immortal spirit by incinerating all the unredeemed aspects of their being, fast and furious with no holds barred - cutting straight to the core by leaving every solid part behind...family, caste, religion...etc. There are no taboos in Aghora - things that are tainted and forbidden in mainstream hinduism, like alcohohol, meat and sex are only steps to leading to liberation, they live on the cremation grounds, eat from a skull, meditate on corpses, there is no clean or unclean - everything is just an aspect of the Self... If there is anyone on the face of this earth that are able to go through the tests of Pluto (Shiva) with an unflinching determination, it's an Aghori... Still, they're a dying breed... Here's the documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0bGrvKVxac Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:39:33 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#450d0f8e-5cbc-4c3e-9ee6-6cfa68e05b41 Partha 2009-07-03T23:39:33Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#0e8aa518-32c3-4f38-80dc-3be8887662b2 ...but surely Pluto signifies more than death and rebirth? Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:40:57 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#0e8aa518-32c3-4f38-80dc-3be8887662b2 derrick 2009-07-03T22:40:57Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#5155776b-d9be-45ed-a041-ce256a3a1ee0 "comments on my life experience which I found to be chockfull of bogus maclogos, if you catch my drift. And if not, catch you later..." Chill out Poppa Cock. Any erection lasting more than 4 hours please call your physician. Lol... I catch your drift. Thank you for elaborating your message and increasing my understanding. Poppa cock, With much respect, catch you later. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:56:04 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#5155776b-d9be-45ed-a041-ce256a3a1ee0 $item.owner.firstName 2009-07-03T20:56:04Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#20537bc5-4ea7-492d-ae06-176804bde098 Lozier <<Only meddling within the public domain we express ourselves in. >> LOL...point taken. "There's no such thing as 'objective truth'. Everyone perceives the world through their own filters of belief and personal history that forms a bias, a kind of slant you put on things. Knowing what that slant is helps minimize self-delusion and maximize your perception of the slants of others. " This excerpt from my ethics as an astrology reader only applies to my work as an astrologer. My statement to Tim, which I stand by, was not a comment on astrology or his chart but on his comments on my life experience which I found to be chockfull of bogus maclogos, if you catch my drift. And if not, catch you later... Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:30:57 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#20537bc5-4ea7-492d-ae06-176804bde098 sherpa 2009-07-03T20:30:57Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#dab802c7-1ed5-4a74-a813-a49c5ce7b088 Thanks Tim. Uranus does make more sense than both Pluto or Saturn in this instance. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:57:48 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#dab802c7-1ed5-4a74-a813-a49c5ce7b088 Paul 2009-07-03T19:57:48Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#03212409-c90e-446a-b870-5e79c8002cb1 "Lozier, you big mooching meddler, you. Of course, everybody is free to express themselves here, even you and the big bad sherpa...lol.... I look forward to Tim's response to my statement, that is If he wishes to know what I really meant by that." Only meddling within the public domain we express ourselves in. The power and influence of Persephone are very evident within you big bad Sherpa! Lol Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:53:31 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#03212409-c90e-446a-b870-5e79c8002cb1 $item.owner.firstName 2009-07-03T19:53:31Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#fa37f2e1-8a11-466e-8513-017d56e84583 Lozier, you big mooching meddler, you. Of course, everybody is free to express themselves here, even you and the big bad sherpa...lol.... I look forward to Tim's response to my statement, that is If he wishes to know what I really meant by that. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:46:28 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#fa37f2e1-8a11-466e-8513-017d56e84583 sherpa 2009-07-03T19:46:28Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#7687368c-e290-42a5-838d-cca4222be3e5 "Tim You don't know what you're talking about. sincerely, sherpa " Sherpa with all due respect : Fuck that! On the " The ethics of astrology Today, 11:00 AM" You said: "There's no such thing as 'objective truth'. Everyone perceives the world through their own filters of belief and personal history that forms a bias, a kind of slant you put on things. Knowing what that slant is helps minimize self-delusion and maximize your perception of the slants of others. " Tim, you say what you want to. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:27:36 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#7687368c-e290-42a5-838d-cca4222be3e5 $item.owner.firstName 2009-07-03T19:27:36Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#c0cad83e-b756-4408-a3c8-61432c89c230 <<as long as you remember to tip Charon, I'm sure he'll let you call him whatever you like >> I'll tip him alright, right off the boat...lol...no serisuoly, I always tip the boatman and place coins over the eyes of the dead. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:14:01 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#c0cad83e-b756-4408-a3c8-61432c89c230 sherpa 2009-07-03T19:14:01Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#a6001877-aac6-4e05-8087-48a52b612a47 But Pluto is not just about death of the flesh...it is about the death and rebirth of.... any thing or not thing. My 1st House Pluto is conjunct Uranus (both retrograde), they trine Moon and Mercury, opposes Venus and Chiron Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:57:36 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#a6001877-aac6-4e05-8087-48a52b612a47 ~FaF~ 2009-07-03T18:57:36Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#847e8ff0-6dba-453e-bc33-dd376f5f915c sherpa ~ as long as you remember to tip Charon, I'm sure he'll let you call him whatever you like love all-ways, mem Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:50:42 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#847e8ff0-6dba-453e-bc33-dd376f5f915c MaryEllen 2009-07-03T18:50:42Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#dd1ef945-faf9-4014-ba25-6685ed6f563a My Venus trines PLuto, sextiles Neptune/Saturn, semisextiles Mars and quincunxes Uranus and so, I'm ready to rock Charon's boat and rename PLuto's mated planetary entity, Persephone. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:45:35 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#dd1ef945-faf9-4014-ba25-6685ed6f563a sherpa 2009-07-03T18:45:35Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#500e2dbb-a460-4c2a-9c78-f6c69ff55f28 'But judging another's experience of a the death of a friend without any real knowledge of the level of intimacy involved is just arrogant and unfair, which, unfortunately, Travis, you often are. You tend to assume a great deal, including the fact that you think people know more about you and your situation than they actually do. I DONT KNOW WHAT YOU DONT FUCKING GET- DON'T TALK TO ME AT ALL. DO NOT MAKE THIS THREAD ANOTHER FUCKING TRUCKWRECK. DO NOT TALK TO ME, I WONT TALK TO YOU. YOU NEED THE LAST WORD? HAVE IT WITH SOMEONE ELSE! Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:42:12 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#500e2dbb-a460-4c2a-9c78-f6c69ff55f28 Flint 2009-07-03T18:42:12Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#32842118-277c-4465-83d6-0f5724442fb8 Od ~ well, I have Venus sextile Pluto ~ so I can work it ~ when it suits me ;) love all-ways, mem Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:34:54 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#32842118-277c-4465-83d6-0f5724442fb8 MaryEllen 2009-07-03T18:34:54Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#0f144cc7-128d-4550-9012-8cd3de2d7b64 Don't piss me off, mem... You know I have Venus conjunct Pluto, and my love can turn to hate in a flash... (and then back again)... haha ; p Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:22:50 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#0f144cc7-128d-4550-9012-8cd3de2d7b64 Od 2009-07-03T18:22:50Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#d5104f11-82ea-4aa4-b45d-165ee420b25c I like Charon ~ the ferryman of Hades who carried souls of the newly deceased across the river that divided the world of the living from the world of the dead http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charon_(mythology) & think that name works just fine. http://people.tribe.net/maryellenmarshall/photos/36ee9786-acd3-413c-a6eb-ee0e365be6ce love all-ways, mem Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:04:27 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#d5104f11-82ea-4aa4-b45d-165ee420b25c MaryEllen 2009-07-03T18:04:27Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#b2a5878e-d449-40f4-a794-03640c75b939 Yes, I agree -- a more fitting name would have been Proserpina (Latin version of Persephone, to match the Latin name Pluto). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proserpina The tale of her abduction and rescue, and subsequent continual alternation between the underworld and the land of the living is a mythological explanation of the annual revolution of the seasons. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:57:03 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#b2a5878e-d449-40f4-a794-03640c75b939 Od 2009-07-03T17:57:03Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#a3d5eccd-3368-4ad6-a9d9-af7ac1be1aa2 Excellent reminder, Od; thanks for this. I think Pluto's moon should have been named Persephone. The ancient mythos of Perspehone and Pluto plays such a big part in how I have come to experience plutonic energy natally and by transit, so full of initiatic contexts crossing the spectrum from the love of power to the power of love. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:14:51 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#a3d5eccd-3368-4ad6-a9d9-af7ac1be1aa2 sherpa 2009-07-03T17:14:51Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#6e438013-60e6-495b-889f-03c2f7b101e3 Why Pluto is the planet of REVOLUTION... http://www.seasky.org/solarsystem/sky3j.html Pluto and Charon, its moon, are actually a binary planet system. Charon does not orbit around Pluto -- because Charon is more than half the mass of Pluto, they actually both orbit around a center of gravity located in space between them. They form a system of constant REVOLUTION, each one revolving around the other, just like Yin and Yang in the T'ai Chi Ch'uan: http://astronuts.tribe.net/photos/a8dd0cf0-883b-4022-b8d5-b87e989a4637 Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:11:07 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#6e438013-60e6-495b-889f-03c2f7b101e3 Od 2009-07-03T17:11:07Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#eaa63ae9-6de0-4484-a559-5fee42f112fe Tim You don't know what you're talking about. sincerely, sherpa Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:05:31 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#eaa63ae9-6de0-4484-a559-5fee42f112fe sherpa 2009-07-03T17:05:31Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#d1a8d54c-2f79-4b2c-ae32-5ac5334dc58f sherpa, You said: "The worst thing that could have ever happened to me, has already happened to me. And it wasn't my death, obviously. I am not afraid of death; I am afraid of the Hurt Locker of Dying." Following up on this some more...you are getting into the grief process rather than the dying process. Our dying all the time is something we accept without thinking about it. We know in the back of our mind that some day we are going to die, and we live with that and think it will happen somewhere in the future, not now. But if we are confronted with death of someone close to us, suddenly death becomes very real. At the same time we become both intimately familiar with death while we are very aware of our own livingness. The challenge then comes to make the grieving transformation, of accepting the death that occurred, accepting our own livingness, and the direct knowledge that some day, we, too, will be transformed from life into death. This process of transformation we make, from death awareness into life appreciation is very much a Plutonic process. Plutonically, Tim Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:02:04 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#d1a8d54c-2f79-4b2c-ae32-5ac5334dc58f Tim 2009-07-03T17:02:04Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#77b7924a-cf65-4e87-beb6-9a11bd00399e sherpa, You said: "I am afraid of the Hurt Locker of Dying." However, it is also important to remember that we are all dying all the time. Every day we get a little older, a little closer to our final death. And we don't know when that moment of final death happens, it could be now, it could be many years from now. In realizing that our life is dying and dying is our life, we lose our fear of death. Since death is simply the moment when we stop dying. Undyingly, Tim Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:06:11 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#77b7924a-cf65-4e87-beb6-9a11bd00399e Tim 2009-07-03T16:06:11Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#c7ff0634-1e67-4c91-9c16-94c189fd1746 b, You said: "I've noticed different people have different philosophies on handling Pluto. I've read some who say "do not try to divert pluto energy because it will destroy you, just experience it and let it transform your life" while others say, "if you are experiencing pluto energy, try to divert into constructive means."It is almost as if the attitude towards Pluto, even for those knowledgeable in astrology, will always be colored by their own dealings with it...I don't know of any other planet with such consistently opposite interpretations." The three outermost planets (Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto) all tend to have this same use it or ignore it interpretation. That is because these are forces that are both personal (when they occur in our lives) and generational (when they have far reaching effects in our world). So some astrologers will take a personal approach (do something with it) and some will take a generational approach (let it alone you can't do anything with it any way). I think the best approach is somewhere between these two extremes. Exactly where will depend on the person and how much they are able to use their own energy in their lives. Astrologizing in the real world, Tim Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:03:29 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#c7ff0634-1e67-4c91-9c16-94c189fd1746 Tim 2009-07-03T16:03:29Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#ae873697-751a-4424-bb8c-8c5bf37b77f4 b, You said: "I don't really associate fear with pluto. Trauma and grief, but not fear. Fear is more in Saturn's domain...only frightening in societies that are removed for the process of death" I agree with this. Saturn is all about the fear and restrictions we put in our life, the "do not pass here" zones that we fear and run away from. Pluto is about the complete and total destroying of the fear...and the zones...and of everything else. Pluto power is the complete and total transformation of everything...like the plutonium in an atomic bomb. Anciently Saturn ruled over death, the end, that which we fear. Pluto is much more about the "death and rebirth" process. Plutonically, Tim Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:57:11 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#ae873697-751a-4424-bb8c-8c5bf37b77f4 Tim 2009-07-03T15:57:11Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#1dabd6dd-d5ab-4a10-a340-2190c0d1224d SynerGy, You said: "pluto is the planet of the jihadist , of the terrorist" I disagree with this. Pluto is the planet of the transformation experience, the blending of two into one, of life into death, of one person into another, of our money with the money of those around us, etc. Uranus is the planet of rebellion, of tearing down what exists, of restructuring society by any means possible, of sudden violent change, etc. Plutonically Uranistic, Tim Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:52:25 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#1dabd6dd-d5ab-4a10-a340-2190c0d1224d Tim 2009-07-03T15:52:25Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#20e37fbc-6d15-4441-8f08-d30132960a3f It seems so heartless, that we have to let go and can't travel beyond with those leaving this world for another. The dying literally transform, returning to themselves - no longer subject to the rules of the world of the living. I wish I could have traveled along, just a short part of the way, but I wasn't allowed - couldn't even say goodbye. I literally feel torn apart, no longer myself - because we are different beings from different worlds now. Despite everyone still left - I know that now in this life I am Alone - but at the heart of the divide, is Love - something nothing and no one can ever destroy or erode. I made a promise not to let go, I will not succumb to the forgetfulness, that is everywhere around us. The dead are not alone, those who keep watch over them between two worlds, have kept watch all their mortal life and will ease the hurt that is felt by the second cutting of the chord. Sometimes not a thing in the world seems strong enough to console those torn apart , how they suffered leaving their life and loves, but an 'angels' heart is boundless and their mercy is beyond comprehension: "For, I think, God hath set forth us the apostles last of all, as men doomed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, both to angels and men." 1 Corinthians 4:9 I agree, we owe it those gone, to make the best of our lives - to cherish their absence as if there was no greater Presence...talk to them, never stop talking to them, because if we cannot, there are those who can travel between to worlds to carry the message. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 11:27:47 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#20e37fbc-6d15-4441-8f08-d30132960a3f Partha 2009-07-03T11:27:47Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#e9fa136d-60cb-4557-9b61-94ba293977c9 My father was three years dying. He should never have survived the surgery he had to have. During that time, all hell broke loose, too. Meanwhile, my father was driving himself to dialysis centers and hanging on for my mother's sake. The life support systems he had been on for months following his surgery ruined his kidneys. He was purely living at that point for everyone else in his life, not for himself. The life you live and the death you die must be how you choose them to be within your capacity. And you can either throw that opportunity away succumbing to a demon of self-pity, guilt, and spite, or you can be one of those who comes to realize that what you have left is best given to those you love and not spent in the temptation to abuse others from the anger that comes with grief. My mother had to come to terms with that, and she did. That sort of dignity is important on many levels, but difficult to rise to. But judging another's experience of a the death of a friend without any real knowledge of the level of intimacy involved is just arrogant and unfair, which, unfortunately, Travis, you often are. You tend to assume a great deal, including the fact that you think people know more about you and your situation than they actually do. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:08:55 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#e9fa136d-60cb-4557-9b61-94ba293977c9 amiablehermit 2009-07-03T09:08:55Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#e9fb6920-2ff2-4d41-9661-964be8ee9729 thats nice, but i am still entitled to move at my own speed with it. im glad you had fun to the very end. i was my mans sole care provider. and it certainly was not fun to the very end. Not after 13 years of relationship. but each to his/her own. perhaps we operate on different levels. i never found hair falling out completely in one night, fun. but perhaps you did not experience that level of intimacy with your friend. But i am glad you had fun. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 06:57:58 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#e9fb6920-2ff2-4d41-9661-964be8ee9729 Flint 2009-07-03T06:57:58Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#0911aef6-a71c-4a14-8c5c-4ea21ea75732 let us not forget the diversity of life experiences :) Fri, 03 Jul 2009 06:34:11 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#0911aef6-a71c-4a14-8c5c-4ea21ea75732 b 2009-07-03T06:34:11Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#51b797a2-7221-4ad4-9ce7-1584b6eb2634 my best friend died of AIDS, bone cancer & 3rd stage syphilis on Christmas Eve in 2005 ~ he didn't even tell me that he was terminal ~ he was my roommate for the last 4 years of his life & we had fun right up until the very end ~ IMO it was a life well lived love all-ways, mem Fri, 03 Jul 2009 06:07:21 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#51b797a2-7221-4ad4-9ce7-1584b6eb2634 MaryEllen 2009-07-03T06:07:21Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#ef182ece-e389-4f15-98e3-f37931f52169 its a nice song, but one i do not concure with. i watched the dearest man in the world die of cancer in 5 months. i assure you, dying is not easy. but yes, living is scary as hell too. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 05:41:16 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#ef182ece-e389-4f15-98e3-f37931f52169 Flint 2009-07-03T05:41:16Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#32a49c80-33e7-418f-a194-6ac9ba8fa839 Dying is easy, it's living that scares me to death. ~ Annie Lennox Cold http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbC3PNH7xY4 love all-ways, mem Fri, 03 Jul 2009 05:29:32 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#32a49c80-33e7-418f-a194-6ac9ba8fa839 MaryEllen 2009-07-03T05:29:32Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#a66bf11f-4695-4264-8b7f-2bda8ce44e1e 'The worst thing that could have ever happened to me, has already happened to me. And it wasn't my death, obviously. I am not afraid of death; I am afraid of the Hurt Locker of Dying.'' ah, you do understand. my apologies. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 05:14:21 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#a66bf11f-4695-4264-8b7f-2bda8ce44e1e Flint 2009-07-03T05:14:21Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#8232fa40-48c1-4102-a57d-71a359b9520b The worst thing that could have ever happened to me, has already happened to me. And it wasn't my death, obviously. I am not afraid of death; I am afraid of the Hurt Locker of Dying. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 04:20:54 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#8232fa40-48c1-4102-a57d-71a359b9520b sherpa 2009-07-03T04:20:54Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#621da76f-9a57-4ee9-b4d7-49a366139358 we fear death. we think it is more shocking that it is, at the real time of happening. in itself, death only takes a moment. but its a hard one to let go of. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 03:11:12 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#621da76f-9a57-4ee9-b4d7-49a366139358 Flint 2009-07-03T03:11:12Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#8309da36-bbfd-44d0-921b-d4e5d301667d Orange Soda. Pluto's soda! Thu, 02 Jul 2009 23:44:35 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#8309da36-bbfd-44d0-921b-d4e5d301667d Orange 2009-07-02T23:44:35Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#e7cc3e9d-677d-4a90-a909-d2f491b75fc2 Retrograde transiting Pluto trine to natal Pluto is exact for me tomorrow. So yes its transforming force is strong with me right now, especially since I have Scorpio rising. What really seemed to kick it in was a recent relationship with a girl whose natal Mars is conjunct my Pluto. I am very big on synastry and find it is a good idea to choose carefully those who you allow to get close to you, as it can really effect the dynamics. They can be a catalyst with blended aspects to your chart. As far as fear of death goes, I was released from that years ago when transiting Pluto was sextile to natal Pluto and conjunct my Neptune Ascendant. It has no more dominion over me and lost its power which allows me to move with more confidence and strength. My fixed nature doesn't enjoy the sudden changes such as Uranus brings, but the ones brought by Pluto are usually slower and easy to embrace, as well as seen to be for the good in the end. Thu, 02 Jul 2009 23:10:58 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#e7cc3e9d-677d-4a90-a909-d2f491b75fc2 Sirius 2009-07-02T23:10:58Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#b2796c65-88ad-414c-99fd-e92bd132bcd2 It's very true my friend . Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:32:52 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#b2796c65-88ad-414c-99fd-e92bd132bcd2 SynerGy 2009-07-02T22:32:52Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#663b9a91-6164-4298-9b33-2ae5323f7788 "pluto is the planet of the jihadist , of the terrorist, no, there is very little if any, fear . " I don't know how true this is. I can understand that used the wrong way it can manifest in that scenario but one could say that Saturn is their planet and they are operating out of an egoic fear that their "god" might punish them for not following through and they have to uphold the right or standard or whatever. Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:29:12 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#663b9a91-6164-4298-9b33-2ae5323f7788 Paul 2009-07-02T22:29:12Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#e288c46c-4c18-4dea-8510-0efb169d37f0 i see pluto as acceptance of the dark/shadowy structures ...acknowledgment on a level of bareness, absolute core projections. emotional caches, x ray visions. I feel like the transformation can only happen when someone is aware on those levels. "The fear of death", the fear is a characterization of the trans-formative path. fear that can be avoided sometimes to make room for necessary growth and building, its about diverting attention so that you can learn about the world freely, but always it will be there, as something you haven't let become you. I think the question of orgins is prized in pluto , the development of "the unmoved mover" and all metaphysical questions and comparisons leveling themselves from the bulb of abstractions. The rising from the primordial, no beginning but a barely visible crease in time and space where death becomes life. The acknowledgment of death and weakness are there for the purpose of discovering your priorities and I think this psychic awareness is more about preparing yourself for a total adventure so that you can fully discover your own personal truth. Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:24:50 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#e288c46c-4c18-4dea-8510-0efb169d37f0 $item.owner.firstName 2009-07-02T22:24:50Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#006cb518-6140-4c34-96a5-ebb851737a32 pluto is the planet of the jihadist , of the terrorist, no, there is very little if any, fear . Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:23:32 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#006cb518-6140-4c34-96a5-ebb851737a32 SynerGy 2009-07-02T22:23:32Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#88fb2ba7-1f78-4520-ac99-a9b751d42943 Sherpa great link. Atalaya, "its can be important not to see death/rebirth as hum drum, each experience of it will be different... like the opening of a flower or drops of snowflakes" I like this. I had many questions about PLuto and its transits very recently and someone told me " life is an unfoldment and not an assertion" just " like the opening of a flower" Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:04:38 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#88fb2ba7-1f78-4520-ac99-a9b751d42943 Paul 2009-07-02T22:04:38Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#346836be-55da-40e8-906c-d000808b8379 its can be important not to see death/rebirth as hum drum, each experience of it will be different... like the opening of a flower or drops of snowflakes Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:00:11 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#346836be-55da-40e8-906c-d000808b8379 $item.owner.firstName 2009-07-02T22:00:11Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#ed09a7f7-7a07-40b1-8b7e-ebddb2d7a945 <<shock ~ school of hard knocks for expanding consciousness...>> good attitude! here's something more on shock along those lines... http://www.verticalpool.com/shock.html Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:59:40 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#ed09a7f7-7a07-40b1-8b7e-ebddb2d7a945 sherpa 2009-07-02T21:59:40Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#d46f5ea6-8567-43d3-8ded-ae7d5e9adf52 "Pluto is all about death and rebirth and that can be a scary thing, but like every Pluto person will eventually know in their lives, once you've died and have been reborn (metaphorically) there's nothing left to fear. You've experienced the absolutes and the fear of the unknown longer has any hold over you as it's no longer unknown. A person without fear is a very powerful person indeed." Fk this feels like it happens all the time. Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:57:10 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#d46f5ea6-8567-43d3-8ded-ae7d5e9adf52 Paul 2009-07-02T21:57:10Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#b0041932-5bcc-4ed8-b9f5-cb789f6da682 Pluto and Saturn relate to different sources of fear. With Pluto, the source of fear is instinctual as in the actual fears of extinction and/or being physically hurt or damaged or killed in some way. With Saturn, the source of fear is more ego-based around perceived threats to the reality structures we have built and work to maintain as a survival strategy. Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:55:24 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#b0041932-5bcc-4ed8-b9f5-cb789f6da682 sherpa 2009-07-02T21:55:24Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#75407ed0-9ef2-4288-9295-49cca9141dfc shock ~ school of hard knocks for expanding consciousness... Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:55:17 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#75407ed0-9ef2-4288-9295-49cca9141dfc $item.owner.firstName 2009-07-02T21:55:17Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#94effbb3-bdba-44e5-a248-4692b9f1f7c5 "What is more terrifying to most people then death itself?" Many fears. The fear of death is only one fear. Everyone has different levels of every fear. Some of the life changing events people have gone through in their lives I am sure they would rather welcome death than fear it. Of course I can't speak for anyone but myself. Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:55:07 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#94effbb3-bdba-44e5-a248-4692b9f1f7c5 Paul 2009-07-02T21:55:07Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#aa8e34cc-9f56-4744-b8b9-94f2de65cd47 <<Is death really shocking? How about living?>> no difference; both are expressions of larger cycles that continue ad infinitum. both life and death also carry the shock of impermanence for all us mortals. Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:51:46 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#aa8e34cc-9f56-4744-b8b9-94f2de65cd47 sherpa 2009-07-02T21:51:46Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#9ce79e6d-42d6-4079-966d-f3b0df010b3a Is death really shocking? How about living? Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:42:00 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#9ce79e6d-42d6-4079-966d-f3b0df010b3a $item.owner.firstName 2009-07-02T21:42:00Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#a2ab10e9-cbdd-4d8d-a45e-26b5dc18699c spelling oop... comfortable, not confortable... Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:40:12 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#a2ab10e9-cbdd-4d8d-a45e-26b5dc18699c $item.owner.firstName 2009-07-02T21:40:12Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#62277326-ef54-4727-8b15-8c9349814a6a sleep is confortable??? that would be an interesting experience... Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:37:27 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#62277326-ef54-4727-8b15-8c9349814a6a $item.owner.firstName 2009-07-02T21:37:27Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#ce107ed5-c839-449a-b6ac-6e32ca2e18f2 Just as i think pluto would be the built up energy that through being concealed and burried for so long would create the violent situation in the first plaice, as it handles the tapestry of unprocessed energy underground then bang a sudden catastrophy explodes in ones life that mirrors the original feeling left burried in the subconcious. Where the beginning meets then end, so the end can create a new beginning, Arc Ore. Im saying through this, could fear be a potent tool for transformation? What is more terrifying to most people then death itself? Maybe we can understand with our mind and grasp the conceptual meaning of death, transcendance, but, I think that primal fear before death will always be there, and perhapse it is necessary as it is the spirit generating enough power, or becoming empowered by release at the point of death Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:29:18 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#ce107ed5-c839-449a-b6ac-6e32ca2e18f2 $item.owner.firstName 2009-07-02T21:29:18Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#76a5c393-54d9-472e-bc31-532916c2143e would you agree fear comes from instinct? And would you agree primal instincts are under Plutos domain? But yeah, i see how Saturn rules over that heavy dark fear that grows over time, but when i mention fear linking with Pluto, I mean a much more instinctual fear, the fight to the death fight or flight fear, although the physical reaction would obviously be Mars energy. Mars pulls the trigger, Pluto is the intent behind the event. Just so as a violent situation may create fear in someone, Pluto would be the unconcious trigger forcing that person to be alert, but mars would be the physical symptoms and response of fight or flight Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:19:35 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#76a5c393-54d9-472e-bc31-532916c2143e $item.owner.firstName 2009-07-02T21:19:35Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#2bddafca-af9b-4e6b-9422-c05a7d1d0051 As creatures of habit, I think we habitually move towards more comfort and security of some kind in our daily lives and also, as a positive future plan. Once we have it good, we don't usually want to change that and when any significant change in that status does erupt, it can naturally elicit fear. In this way real change, ala Pluto, can be experienced by the Habit/Creature Body as death itself. Transformation and growth is rarely comfortable; sleep is comfortable. Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:17:49 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#2bddafca-af9b-4e6b-9422-c05a7d1d0051 sherpa 2009-07-02T21:17:49Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#e258fc59-44c3-4407-94b6-925f205210dd I don't really associate fear with pluto. Trauma and grief, but not fear. Fear is more in Saturn's domain... Saturn's reactions to Pluto disruptions... I like sherpa's point that Pluto is only frightening in societies that are removed for the process of death and rebirth on a fundamental level. It is not what scares us it is what changes us. Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:08:47 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#e258fc59-44c3-4407-94b6-925f205210dd b 2009-07-02T21:08:47Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#ddf44c8d-3473-4a71-8f96-bd0e208afe96 isnt this only highlighting Plutos fame for the extreme? Carving out from others extreme reactions, all or nothing, no inbetween Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:02:13 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#ddf44c8d-3473-4a71-8f96-bd0e208afe96 $item.owner.firstName 2009-07-02T21:02:13Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#543100d0-e5b6-4b87-963d-85c020475c91 but perhapse fear can be just as powerful an emotive tool as overcoming fear, as that sense of fear could protect and save someone through the shear immediacy of shock that fear creates. Maybe fear is useful as it is a primal instinct necessary for survival, which is one of the motor fucntions of Pluto. Even fear of something within oneself, an oncoming distressing emotion, can keep that person aware and awake to the experience of that oncoming inner tidal wave, experiencing it in its wholeness thus able to extract from the senses the magnitude of that experience, making it more real and clear to their inner eye Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:00:00 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#543100d0-e5b6-4b87-963d-85c020475c91 $item.owner.firstName 2009-07-02T21:00:00Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#8c76479e-d548-4e74-9c35-900dcf230b92 I've noticed different people have different philosophies on handling Pluto. I've read some who say "do not try to divert pluto energy because it will destroy you, just experience it and let it transform your life" while others say, "if you are experiencing pluto energy, try to divert into constructive means." It is almost as if the attitude towards Pluto, even for those knowledgeable in astrology, will always be colored by their own dealings with it. I even read an article that went so far as to say, "Just ignore Pluto people, they will never listen and you can't reason with them. It is best just to ignore them and not fuel the fire." Then there is Pluto in relationships, which is a whole other can of worms. Some go, "Pluto means nothing because it is generational!" and others, "Pluto contacts can be the most profound!" Then still others say, "Pluto contacts will make the Pluto person obssessive" and others go, "Pluto contacts will make the other planet person obsessive." I don't know of any other planet with such consistently opposite interpretations. Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:57:11 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#8c76479e-d548-4e74-9c35-900dcf230b92 b 2009-07-02T20:57:11Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#05cfec9e-a782-43bc-9bd5-ff7427de2a97 I think Pluto always indicates areas of the chart that life will encourage to be transformed and there can often be a great deal of fear surrounding whatever Pluto touches, but also a great deal of power. Pluto is all about death and rebirth and that can be a scary thing, but like every Pluto person will eventually know in their lives, once you've died and have been reborn (metaphorically) there's nothing left to fear. You've experienced the absolutes and the fear of the unknown longer has any hold over you as it's no longer unknown. A person without fear is a very powerful person indeed. Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:31:41 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#05cfec9e-a782-43bc-9bd5-ff7427de2a97 Paul 2009-07-02T20:31:41Z http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#a460e7a6-ed08-40fd-80f2-a5119f40efd0 Pluto as a Regenerative Force of Death and Rebirth The transpersonal force of Pluto represents a shock to our naivete around death and rebirth and any exposure to the numerous forms expressing natural decay and renewal. Death is always more shocking in materialistic, death-ignorant societies where the organic processes of decay are made taboo; money loses value when death is in the room. Astrological Pluto symbolizes soul intent, your deeper reason for incarnating (for more insight, read Jeffrey Wolf Green's, Pluto: The Soul's Evolution Through Relationships ). From a soul level, we are not human beings having spiritual experiences but rather spiritual beings needing specific human experiences to further soul-embodiment as humans. This arduous humanization process is made intensely transformative by a major obsession, or fixation (symbolized by natal Pluto). Look at obsession as the concentrative power affording full intuitive contact with life energies. Real life comes at us in a series of deep plutonic shocks; even the most sheltered of existences must endure its own degenerative stagnation. When confronting the shock of death -- in whatever form -- the traumatized ego often responds by fixating itself on an obsession in an attempt to restabilize itself. Obsessions are often symptoms of undigested shock. Natal Pluto refers to specific obsessions and points of fixation, as well as where your greatest transformations throughout life are most likely to occur. Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:09:26 GMT http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/46d9d77e-30e7-49ca-9ff1-7ac27bf6814b#a460e7a6-ed08-40fd-80f2-a5119f40efd0 sherpa 2009-07-02T20:09:26Z