Wowzers, Mothy! You can really cut a rug!

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The following is from Kevin Burk:

MYTHS, MISCONCEPTIONS AND MISINFORMATION

The fact that the Signs of the Zodiac share the same names as 12 of the constellations, and were, in fact, named after the constellations, has resulted in the popular misconception that the signs are the same thing as the constellations. This fallacy has given rise to all sorts of pseudo-scientific attacks on the validity of astrology, all of which come from individuals who do not understand astrology in the first place. Some have even come from a small faction of Western Sidereal astrologers who attempt to discredit Tropical astrology. I'll list some of the most popular examples below, and then, since they all can be explained or refuted by the same information, tackle them all at once.

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"The 13th Sign of the Zodiac." This one pops up in the media from time to time. Sometimes it takes the angle that a new sign of the zodiac has been "discovered." Other times, it's used as an argument by sceptics attempting to discredit astrology. What it refers to is the Constellation of Ophicuchus, which also intersects the ecliptic, and which actually occupies more space along the ecliptic than the Constellation of Scorpio.
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"The Sidereal Zodiac is the only 'real' zodiac because it uses the constellations and not imaginary divisions of the ecliptic."
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"How can you say that 'Jupiter is in Libra' when I can look up in the sky and see it clearly in Virgo?"
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"The Zodiac has all of the dates wrong because of the Precession of the Equinoxes." Part of this is addressed above when the difference between the Tropical and the Sidereal Zodiacs is covered. The rest will be addressed below.

The data in the following table was published by Dr. Lee T. Shapiro, Director Morehead Planetarium, CB #3480 Morehead Building, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3480. The dates and days refer to the time that the Sun appears to spend in each of the constellations. I took the days (based on a 365 day year) and converted them to the corresponding arcs that each constellation occupies along the ecliptic. I also included the approximate dates that the Sun enters each of the Signs, both in the Tropical Zodiac and also in the Sidereal Zodiac.


Constellation
Sun Enters/Leaves
# of
Days
# of
Degrees
Tropical Dates
Sidereal Dates

Aries
Sun enters/leaves constellation: Apr 19 - May 13
25 days
24.66 degrees
Tropical: Mar 21 - Apr 20
Sidereal: Apr 14 - May 14

Taurus
Sun enters/leaves constellation: May 14 - Jun 19
37 days
36.49 degrees
Tropical: Apr 21 - May 21
Sidereal: May 15 - Jun 14

Gemini
Sun enters/leaves constellation: Jun 20 - Jul 20
31 days
20.58 degrees
Tropical: May 22 - Jun 21
Sidereal: Jun 15 - Jul 15

Cancer
Sun enters/leaves constellation: Jul 21 - Aug 9
20 days
19.73 degrees
Tropical: Jun 22 - Jul 22
Sidereal: Jul 16 - Aug 16

Leo
Sun enters/leave constellation: Aug 10 - Sep 15
37 days
36.49 degrees
Tropical: Jul 23 - Aug 22
Sidereal: Aug 17 - Sep 16

Virgo
Sun enters/leaves constellation: Sep 16 - Oct 30
45 days
44.38 degrees
Tropical: Aug 23 - Sep 23
Sidereal: Sep 17 - Oct 16

Libra
Sun enters/leaves constellation: Oct 31 - Nov 22
23 days
22.69 degrees
Tropical: Sep 24 - Oct 23
Sidereal: Oct 17 - Nov 15

Scorpio
Sun enters/leaves constellation: Nov 23 - Nov 29
7 days
6.9 degrees
Tropical: Oct 24 - Nov 22
Sidereal: Nov 16 - Dec 15

Ophiuchus
Sun enters/leaves constellation: Nov 30 - Dec 17
18 days
17.75 degrees
Tropical: N/A
Sidereal: N/A

Sagittarius
Sun enters/leaves constellation: Dec 18 - Jan 18
32 days
31.56 degrees
Tropical: Nov 23 - Dec 21
Sidereal: Dec 16 - Jan 13

Capricorn
Sun enters/leaves constellation: Jan 19 - Feb 15
28 days
27.62 degrees
Tropical: Dec 22 - Jan 20
Sidereal: Jan 14 - Feb 12

Aquarius
Sun enters/leaves constellation: Feb 16 - Mar 11
24 days
23.67 degrees
Tropical: Jan 21 - Feb 19
Sidereal: Feb 13 - Mar 12

Pisces
Sun enters/leaves constellation: Mar 12 - Apr 18
38 days
37.48 degrees
Tropical: Feb 20 - Mar 20
Sidereal: Mar 13 - Apr 13


The table should illustrate clearly the difference between the signs and the constellations. The signs, you will remember, are units of measurement, each consisting of 30 degrees of arc. The constellations may take up an average of about 30 degrees of arc each, but they certainly aren't very useful as units of measurement.

This is also the answer to the "13th Sign" myth. While there are most certainly 13 constellations that cross the ecliptic, the signs are not the same thing as the constellations. Why the Ancients chose to name the 8th Sign after Scorpio (which barely takes up 7° of arc) rather than Ophicuchus (which covers a more respectable 17.75°) will probably remain a mystery.

It should also be obvious from looking at this table that the Sidereal Zodiac does not rely on the constellations any more than the Tropical Zodiac does. While there is certainly a greater correlation between the Sidereal Signs and the constellations along the ecliptic, again, the constellations do not divide the ecliptic into equal segments and therefore they are not used as the basis for the Sidereal Zodiac. In fact, there even appears to be a discrepency between when Dr. Shapiro notes that the Sun Enters the Constellation of Aries and when the Sidereal Sign of Aries is thought to begin (for the year 1997).

The discrepency between where astrologers place a planet in the night sky, and where astronomers place that same planet is also related to the difference between the Constellations, the Tropical Zodiac and the Sidereal Zodiac. Based on the dates in the table, on October 24, the Sun would be found in the Constellation of Virgo, the Tropical Sign of Scorpio, and the Sidereal Sign of Libra.

And finally, the argument that astrology can't work because the precession of the equinoxes make it invalid, or at least wildly inaccurate (which is essentially what the "scientist" was referring to who prompted Debbie's question), simply brings up the difference between the Tropical and the Sidereal Zodiacs. along the ecliptic, again, the constellations do not divide the ecliptic into equal segments and therefore they are not used as the basis for the Sidereal Zodiac. In fact, there even appears to be a discrepency between when Dr. Shapiro notes that the Sun Enters the Constellation of Aries and when the Sidereal Sign of Aries is thought to begin (for the year 1997).

Once again, although the Tropical and the Sidereal Zodiacs are very different, they each represent an entirely valid system of astrology.

therealastrology.com/HTML/AS...116.html


I was born on October 29th, and so my Tropical Scorpio Sun is in the constellation of Virgo and not Libra like it is in Sidereal Zodiac.


I also want to point out that astronomers don't use any of the 3 zodiacs to locate objects. They don't use ecliptic coordinates. They use the equatorial coordinates. They use equatorial longitude which is is known as Right Ascension and equatorial latitude which is know as Declination.

Wow I didn't know my question would create such a debate! I have learned a lot thru everyone's post :)

The thing is that here people want comments on their stuff. Some post here more or less for that.

Nope. Sometimes they are just too long.