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I was wondering what everyone's thoughts are on the subject of the Age of Aquarius. Have we entered it yet? If not when will we?
But more to point, it would seem to be the case that most people generally think the Age of Aquarius is a good thing. Something to look forward to. I think this is mostly because of that song which promotes it!
However I personally dread the Age of Aquarius. In my mind this would mean the dissolution of the personal Leo, the ego. For me the Age of Aquarius connotates an Orwellian dystopia where the government are in control and science reigns. I have nothing against science but is it me or is Science becoming like a religion? It is as though Science cannot be challenged!
I fear for the day when we all become serial numbers in a database somewhere, and here in the UK this is already happening with the world's largest DNA database. If you get arrested for anything whatsoever, your DNA can be stored indefinitely on their database, regardless of whether you were found innocent or not. This is a huge breach on our human rights and I feel that it will happen globally if it isn't already! For me this is the Age of Aquarius, a serial number which contains your genetic, consumer and physical information, happily sold to third parties and used against you when you want insurance etc.
How far into the future will it be that cash is obsolete and our income is controlled by embedded microchips?
What are your thoughts?
But more to point, it would seem to be the case that most people generally think the Age of Aquarius is a good thing. Something to look forward to. I think this is mostly because of that song which promotes it!
However I personally dread the Age of Aquarius. In my mind this would mean the dissolution of the personal Leo, the ego. For me the Age of Aquarius connotates an Orwellian dystopia where the government are in control and science reigns. I have nothing against science but is it me or is Science becoming like a religion? It is as though Science cannot be challenged!
I fear for the day when we all become serial numbers in a database somewhere, and here in the UK this is already happening with the world's largest DNA database. If you get arrested for anything whatsoever, your DNA can be stored indefinitely on their database, regardless of whether you were found innocent or not. This is a huge breach on our human rights and I feel that it will happen globally if it isn't already! For me this is the Age of Aquarius, a serial number which contains your genetic, consumer and physical information, happily sold to third parties and used against you when you want insurance etc.
How far into the future will it be that cash is obsolete and our income is controlled by embedded microchips?
What are your thoughts?
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, March 23, 2009 - 7:05 AMHere's a few articles to demonstrate the over-zealous mis-use of databases in the UK. The US will be next.
390,000 to access child database :
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/educa...7850871.stm
Baby's DNA was held on database
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_po...7933753.stm
Warning over 'surveillance state'
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_po...7872425.stm
Giant database plan 'Orwellian'
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_po...7671046.stm
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, March 23, 2009 - 7:13 AMsomehow i'm not surprised you want to cling to ego, paul. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, March 23, 2009 - 7:18 AM"somehow i'm not surprised you want to cling to ego, paul. "
And why might that be? Considering how little you know about me.
Are you willing to have your sense of self removed? -
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, March 23, 2009 - 8:26 AMAw, I'm just a stinker this morning. You and your ego be blessed! -
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Sun, April 5, 2009 - 12:14 PMPasso aggro New Age idioms...hmm. Yup, there's that tail-end Pisces crap I can't stand.
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, March 23, 2009 - 8:32 AM"The Paranoids are right. They have a lot of enemies. Who'd want to be their friends?" - Robert Anton Wilson
Try and stay optimistic about it - self-fulfilling prophecies may come back to bite you.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Sat, April 4, 2009 - 10:23 AMThis is a great post. I've thought the same thing. I can draw 2 very different pictures of the Age of Aquarius. If we look at the house rulerships of the Age of Aquarius, you get a Pisces 2nd house... which could be illusion regarding possessions, control of resources, etc. Capricorn on the 12th house could be hidden hierarchy... being ruled by a behind the scenes entity. A Scorpio MC introduces the idea of manipulation and control issues to the house of social structure... combined with an Aries 3rd house, which in another post about the Age of Aquarius, Sherpa pointed to being a battle over information/communication systems... could be the use of the media to manipulate and control. And we definitely see the signs of all of this happening.
But, on the other hand, I can see the water signs introducing compassion to the Earth houses. Scorpio on the MC, being the sign of shared possessions could be a beautiful thing... and I also see these things happening, like carshare programs, filesharing, etc. This is supported by a Pisces 2nd house... a willingness to let go of personal possessions, and a very free-flowing attitude toward money. Cancer on the 6th house could show people serving according to compassion and in support of their community and personal emotions. And the Capricorn 12th house could signify an extreme transformation... letting go of our current social structures and limitations, possibly the end of hierarchy and setting the stage for a new (more humane) attitude toward social structure.
"However I personally dread the Age of Aquarius. In my mind this would mean the dissolution of the personal Leo, the ego."
From my perspective, the opposing signs are not opposites of each other, but extensions. Aquarius doesn't defy Leo in any way... the fact that it's opposite (and based on) Leo is what makes Aquarius supportive of individuality. It's about finding the individual's place in society. While you can see the detached airiness of Aquarius and think that it's all science and rationale, there's a very compassionate side to Aquarius... being the sign of humanitarianism and brotherly love. Imo, the main focus of Aquarius is to fit the individual into society in a way that supports both. One of the gifts often associated with Aquarians is an ability to see an individual's talents and recognize how it fits the whole.
All in all, I don't think that the Age of Aquarius is going to be an instant utopia. But I also don't think it's going to be a dystopia either. Each sign and each age is a process. We'll deal with both the positive and negative sides of it.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Sat, April 4, 2009 - 1:29 PM
my Moon is in the constellation of Aquarius, and it's even in conjunction with alpha Aquarius,Sadalmelik with 11 minutes of arc and in conjunction with theta Aquarius,Ancha with 18 minutes of arc. Sadalmelik is also in a culminating paran with my Moon. In Right Ascension(Equatorial Longitude coordinates that astronomers use to locate objects),my Moon conjuncts gamma Aquarius,Sadalbachia with 39 minutes of arc.
Therefore,I am strongly connected to the Aquarius constellation.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Sat, April 4, 2009 - 6:19 PM<From my perspective, the opposing signs are not opposites of each other, but extensions. Aquarius doesn't defy Leo in any way... the fact that it's opposite (and based on) Leo is what makes Aquarius supportive of individuality. It's about finding the individual's place in society. While you can see the detached airiness of Aquarius and think that it's all science and rationale, there's a very compassionate side to Aquarius... being the sign of humanitarianism and brotherly love. Imo, the main focus of Aquarius is to fit the individual into society in a way that supports both. One of the gifts often associated with Aquarians is an ability to see an individual's talents and recognize how it fits the whole. >
exio ~ I completely agree with this and find it extremely insightful. As a Leo Sun with Aqua Moon, it rings totally true to me. I wish this were actualized in RL more. It the coming age means that will happen more, I say bring it on!
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Sat, April 4, 2009 - 1:46 PMTechnically speaking, the vernal equinox has not yet entered the sign of Aquarius.....HOWEVER, most of us are "bridge people" and we are beginning the Aquarian Age NOW....so that it can really BLOSSOM in a few hundred years......We are "sowing the seeds" of Aquarius in the fertile Piscean Preta Terra. :-) We may indeed pass through the flotsom and jetsom of the end of the Age of Pisces, but it is up to us (each one of us) to plant good seeds and, in some cases, nurture them.
Here's one point of view among many who agree that the Aquarian Age vibes are already amongst us:
"Because the spring equinox has not yet reached the constellation of Aquarius, the question may be raised as to why we should at the present time bother thinking about the Aquarian Age. One reason for looking ahead is that it is good to keep in mind what one is aiming at so that one can move directly toward the goal. Another reason is that although the equinox does not enter the constellation of Aquarius until A.D. 2638, the Sun focuses the influences coming not just coming from a point, but from a band in the sky [which is broader than the physical boundaries of the Sun]. Already this band of influence of the Sun is touching the constellation of Aquarius. Thus, even now, the Aquarian influence is beginning to be felt by some people. Another reason is that among the millions of people in the School of Life on Earth, there are some who are sufficiently precocious that they are able to move forward faster than others and are thus ready to move into a new age prior to the time scheduled for humanity as a whole [just as some may need to remain in an old age after most of the rest of humanity has moved out of it]. "
--Elsa Glover
www.elsaglover.netfirms.com/the_...tm#II
We are not only technical, left-brained people. We are also artists, poets, intuitives, and otherwise right-brained people. Those who are intuitive amongst us can surely FEEL THE VIBES... and the inventions, expressions and planetary culture of the next Age are already being born..... -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Sat, April 4, 2009 - 1:49 PMThe above link at Elsa Glover's site SHOULD BE:
www.elsaglover.netfirms.com/the_...e.htm
Sorry about that! -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Sat, April 4, 2009 - 7:01 PMIn the Age of Aquarius (starting NOW!), our collective relationship to the Divine shifts away from bearded patriarchs toward recognizing our role as co-creators in global events. It means moving toward a global conscious-ness, a collective self-awareness. The “Force” is with you!
The Aquarian bumper sticker is: “one people living on one planet.” The Age of Aquarius is about the networking power of decentralization and democracy. Signs of its arrival include the creation of the internet, which is moving us toward a decentralized, information-based society.
The Age of Aquarius is when we are all supposed to come to the understanding that man is God. As one New Age writer put it, 'A major theme of Aquarius is that God is within. The goal in the Age of Aquarius will be how to bring this idea into meaningful reality.
– Marion Weinstein www.marionweinstein.com/return.htm
The two wavy lines of Aquarius are lines of conductivity. The process of society transforming is a process of relationship, of connecting. So when relating to all people, in the most private or public contacts, cultivate and extend a vision of a new world, and live that vision.
---Eric Francis, writing about “The Age of Aquarius”
It’s the GLOBAL VISION of Aquarius that is important, and the fixity of Aquarius shows that once you have that Vision, you can HOLD that vision....for yourself and for others. That doesn’t mean you can’t “tweak” it once in a while and refine it and make it better—you can! After all, this is a LIVING vision, not a dead one! You know that (eventually) everyone will participate (Locally AND Globally) to make this vision real. And you can inspire them to use their uniqueness, as well as their passion, to birth our New World, and to get it going, breathing, moving, BE-ing!!!
For the moment, realize that all our dreams, ideals and visions don’t have to occur in the next couple of years. We are just beginning to taste the Aquarian Age potential. Think literally of a near future of mental telepathy, time travel (perhaps via the intuition and "higher planes"), contacts with ETs, clairvoyance, clairaudience, past-life and even future-life "recall," great advances in medicine, science, technology and environmental protection. There is some TIME--perhaps as much as 9 decades (akin to a pregnancy cycle of 9 months)--to birth a real, solid Aquarian Age--an age where humanity and the Earth as a whole actually go through a bonafide spiritual initiation.
– Mark Lerner (written in 2002)
Aquarius rules the power of groups working together for the common good. It also rules the power of the individual to invent and move toward the future in a positive way.
Book that talks about the Age of Aquarius:
__Aquarius Now: Radical Common Sense And Reclaiming Our Personal Sovereignty__ by Marilyn Ferguson -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Sat, April 4, 2009 - 7:17 PMBut you are NOT talking about The New World Order and Globalization as the bullshit we are presently experiencing, right? I mean, mass suicide would look better to me than those things. -
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Sat, April 4, 2009 - 7:22 PMRight. NWO and the current brand of globalization is establishment New Age (from the Piscean Age) hijacking real Aquarian consciousness. They're using the energy but still basing everything in hierarchy, control, veiled motives, etc.
It's not egalitarianism...it's a group of "enlightened" elites presiding over the rest of the masses who can't be trusted with autonomy. That's not Aquarian Age. -
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Sat, April 4, 2009 - 7:24 PMIt's the One World Governement, One World Religion (New Age) thing...
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Sat, April 4, 2009 - 7:32 PMRight. This is more like the Age of Horseshit. Perhaps we have an Age of Horseshit between the Piscean Age and the Aquarian Age ~ I am sure there is some transiting centaur asteroid goodie we can pin it on.
What I find really great in the Age of Horseshit, though, is how "The Left" and "The Right" are ceasing to be true political distinctions anymore. I think that we can see the Aquarian Age in seminal form through the blending of "Left" and "Right" in the newly arising political Vulcan mind meld of "No Left, No Right, No Shit." -
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Sat, April 4, 2009 - 7:48 PMYes, No Left, No Right, No Shit is going to be great, all right. :)
We're in the transition time between Pisces and Aquarius, and yeah...there is a lot of bullshit related to clinging to old forms, trying to use the new energy for old ends, redundancy, stuff like that. It certainly does involve a whole lot of Horse Shit. It's highly annoying. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Sat, April 4, 2009 - 7:52 PMI wonder if Captain Chiron could tell us which centaur we can use as a scapehorse for this particular era. LOL.
Sure is great to have you back, Willow. You have been missed from the time you left. <moth smooch> -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Sat, April 4, 2009 - 8:02 PMYep.
I am sure LOTZ could give us some incomprehensible post in LOTZ-speak naming a scapehorse for us, but we still don't have any adequate translator for him. Some things here have not changed in your absence. <grin>
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Sat, April 4, 2009 - 8:30 PMAmia, human civilization has always been horseshit. =)
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 10:23 AMMaggie has posted some great resources about real Aquarian consciousness...just great. So thanks, Maggie.
I mean, this book title really says it all as far as I'm concerned:
"Aquarius Now: Radical Common Sense And Reclaiming Our Personal Sovereignty"
It really is about accessing basic common sense, wisdom, understanding in ourselves...holding no superiour...being your own authority...
It's about defining it for yourself and living it...not looking to the world leaders to tell you how things are going to go. Looking to follow others is not going to work. If you're looking for those master-student, follow-the-leader set-ups to tell you what to do, you're just asking to get burned through abuse of power.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Sat, April 4, 2009 - 7:09 PMBTW, lest anyone doubt....there are MANY views of "when" the Age of Aquarius is beginning. (INCLUDING many recognized astrologers) ...
Here are some websites with the differeing opinions....
Differing opinions of the Age of Aquarius:
www.greatdreams.com/aquarius.htm
www.radix.net/~jah/aquarius.html
www.aquarian-age.net/Age-of-Aquarius.htm
astrotribe.tribe.net/thread/...aeeac5b1
www.accessnewage.com/Article...eaq1.htm
simedia.org/new/science/rrequinx.html
home.earthlink.net/~gnosisl...ary3.html
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Sat, April 4, 2009 - 6:30 PMUmmm. A.D. 2638? That is a bit of a wait....... -
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Sat, April 4, 2009 - 6:43 PMTo paraphrase someone famous:
"Piscean Age is Over (If You Want It)" -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Sat, April 4, 2009 - 9:49 PMWe can mix that Age with the Horseshit Age and come up with some really good fertilizer for the Aqua Age. Organic gardening and such, you know.
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Sun, April 5, 2009 - 12:22 PMPaul, I think you have valid concerns...if the current NWO regime were to maintain control.
I have to live as if real Aquarian consciousness will prevail. (And Aquarian consciousness that integrates and applies Piscean consciousness.) The alternative isn't one I can live with.
But you're right...I see evidence that people are (currently) trying to use Aquarian energy without truly understanding the lessons of the Piscean Age first. That sort of inhumane, extreme level of detachedness, treating people as nothing more than numbers to be manipulated, etc. If people don't understand why we should give a crap about each other, that we're all connected and in this together...then we're not too far off those Nazi scientific experiments done on humans, are we?
I think we're right to keep a vigilant eye on it and work to turn the tide where we can... -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Sun, April 5, 2009 - 9:45 PM"But you're right...I see evidence that people are (currently) trying to use Aquarian energy without truly understanding the lessons of the Piscean Age first."
Thank you. This, to me, is the deciding factor on which way the Age of Aquarius turns. If we understand that we're all one, that my actions affect you, and vice versa, it should be beautiful. But if we get too caught up in alot of the ideas of "individualism" that are being pushed and passed off as "Aquarian" we're in some serious trouble. -
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 12:57 AMFor me the Age of Aquarius connotates an Orwellian dystopia where the government are in control and science reigns. I have nothing against science but is it me or is Science becoming like a religion?
We might get to see either an Orwellian or cyberpunk dystopia.
My feeling is that somehow, peole just don't know how to create truly enebling infrstructures. Look at the mess with the recession now! And that for starters.
Maybe all it is, that now it will become more of an imperative to try and find these enabling infrastructures. Prefereably ones with a full recognition and affirmation of basic human rights. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 2:10 AM<I have nothing against science but is it me or is Science becoming like a religion? >
Nexus7 ~ It is not "becoming like" a religion -- it IS a religion, and a no less dogmatic one than any other you can name, to be sure. Anything that it cannot model, quantify, observe, deduce, explain, or detect is irrelevant, invalid, faulty, or delusional. Recently, paranormal research has been turning science on itself by debunking science's assumptions using science's own tools and precepts and using the new ones that it is inventing. I thnk the best scientists are those who distrust science, but I don't meet as many of those as I do the garden variety hard nose.
We see a very bizarre example of science as religion on this tribe in the presence of the evangelical LOTZ, IMO. It is clear that one of his missions is to correct our mathematical and scientific errors so that astrology will conform to the true sky. In other hands, this might not be so unappealing, but unfortunately, as is the case with many "prophets," he renders himself too incomprehensible and antisocial to reach those whom he is addressing. It is regretable, but also not our responsibility to correct. I feel very differently about the more rational scientific evangelists ~ their tunnel vision is our business to correct lest they dominate the collective mind and wind up giving us more of the horseshit that has mired this age. -
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 12:28 PM'<I have nothing against science but is it me or is Science becoming like a religion? >
Nexus7 ~ It is not "becoming like" a religion'
Not my quote Amibale Hermit, but rather Paul's original one for this thread.
I daresay will will get a few more born-again scienists of the Dawkins type yet, though. -
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 12:30 PMHere is a request by the way.
There was a thread quite a while back on economic infrastructures - and there was a book come up that I have been able to tack doen again since. I think the writer was called Shipley - he was basically saying that 'hard work doesn't work' - something of that kind. And abut the fact that infrastructures are not enabling - though of course that could mean simply getting a life, having time ion which o be creative, for example.
Anyway, if anyone knows what I am on about - then please contact me - thanks. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 12:36 PMHow about a "Bubble Up" economy? As opposed to "Trickle Down"...all trickle down has accomplished is more amassing of wealth by the already wealthy. They have so much money they could not possibly spend it all, its more about power...
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 12:41 PMSorry, Nexus7, but it was not set off so that I could tell, and I didn't remember. -
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 12:55 PM'Sorry, Nexus7, but it was not set off so that I could tell, and I didn't remember.'
No probs, as yet you cannot do quotation bubble here.
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 10:29 AMNexus7...the people didn't have much of a hand in how the current structures were set up. They're hierarchichal and have been set-up to basically move wealth from the bottom to the top. (Through the milking of labour) So they have been stacked against working people.
The current mess has more to do with corruption within those hierarchical set-ups...greed, lack of responsibility to the people, dishonesty, lack of integrity. It's not an example that people don't know how to create good situations for themselves...they haven't had a chance to try very often. Althought I'm sure the mainstream press will try to spin it that way. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 10:33 AMWillow ~
I completely agree with your POV on this transition period between the Age of Pisces & Aquarius ~ thanx for communicating it so well!
love all-ways,
mem
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 12:55 AM"But if we get too caught up in alot of the ideas of "individualism" that are being pushed and passed off as "Aquarian" we're in some serious trouble."
I fear we will lose our individuality and become nothing more than an string in a database. I honestly feel that it is only a matter of time before (in the UK at least) religion becomes illegal. It seems anyone can be a terrorist nowadays. A journalist can be considered one if he takes photos of police. A painter was considered one for painting a street (which could have been recon for a bomb!). Bearing in mind that terrorists have less rights for some bizarre reason, it's only a matter of time when we could all be terrorists. If we speak out against the government we may well be accused of inciting terror.
Last week in London during the G20 talks, there was a number of protests regarding the financial and climate situation. Most of these were peaceful, but even those ones were caught up by the police riot. peaceful protestors were seen having tea and chatting with police in the area. But then the call went out and even the police didn't know why, and they were enforced to 'kettle' the crowd - basically hem them all into a tight area with no ability to move. And kept them there for 8 hours. Only allowing them to leave after they got their personal details and a photograph. That is totally illegal, but they got away with it. there is an absolutely appalling erosion of civil liberties underway in the UK, I can only imagine the US will be next. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 1:52 AMYes. And I am confused by Willow's and exio's last two posts. They seem to be self-contradictory.
I would like to say right now that utopian experiemnts have NEVER worked, and more often than not, have resulted in highly repressive regimes ~ Such as the Soviet Union ~ which was the social model Orwell was actually using when he wrote 1984. But we are totally not far from that scenario now in this age of Horseshit.
The Aquarian challenge is to do more as Willow previously described, take individualism and its virtues and necessities into account and respect its contribution to the collective by honoring it and giving it its rightful places and roles. Homogenous humanity is a very scary concept to me. And I think that it is not only unrealistic, but undesirable from a collective psychic hygiene standpoint, to go too far in rejecting the essential need for some conflict and struggle in the human experience. Not only is Mars here for a reason, but so are Saturn and Pluto. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 1:57 AM"I would like to say right now that utopian experiemnts have NEVER worked, and more often than not, have resulted in highly repressive regimes"
Yup, at hardly takes a European to remind Californians of Jonestown. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 2:18 AMi guess it would be important to be more detailed about what one perceives as utopia. But, thats a circle discussion i won't go to. Nothing is permanent, so by definition, one sets up an unanswerable conundrum. But some like to recircle their basic premise. The ancient Chinese, and Tibetian cultures, at certain points, were certainly a utopia. But his holiness teaches us that nothing is permanent. On the other hand -
If a people have pulled off a utopia, would they share it with the world, and broadcast their existence? probably not. its a word employed by people that are critical enouph to be forever blind to a utopia, that may really exist, before their own eyes. Thats why the word is used the way it is.
The Elder Brothers Of Man, could be considered to be an ancient utopia, that existed up until - cultural anthropolosgists brought attention of their existence to the world.
Utopia does exist, but not to the profane and vulgar. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 9:54 AMCyborg....human with additional enhancements...right brain utopia....emotions are detrimental....Uranus the second Sun becomes the ultimate Cult leader...A.D.D city, where one multitasks in dry static and the erotic moisture is sucked up into electric smartness without intimate compassion but the devotion to the ideal new human awareness of Spockism.... -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 10:13 AMAs an Aquarian, ...I do not know why it is so difficult for me to accept these, cold, mechanical space odyssey assessments of the future. I envision something more like a blend of past and future technology, selecting the best of both. Such as Ernest Callenbach's book Ecotopoia describes. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 10:40 AMI dont know that people can build or create something new without also honoring/respecting old ways of doing things. -
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 10:42 AMYes, and also learning the lessons of those old ways of doing things...so as to not repeat past mistakes. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 10:46 AM
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 10:18 AM"Yes. And I am confused by Willow's and exio's last two posts. They seem to be self-contradictory."
How so?
No one is talking utopia...again, that is more a tail-end Piscean idea, to me. And no one is talking about anything that has come before. Again, this is new...not recreating the same tired, old forms yet again.
Again, because we're in the transition time between Aquarius and Pisces, there are people (most world leaders, it seems) trying to use the energy of Aquarian consciousness for the same old Piscean ends...so to say that the Aquarian paradigm is what is going on right now...no, it's not. What we're dealing with right now is basically the worst of Pisces combined with the worst of Aquarius...
The Aquarius people are afraid of, I think, is related to Atlantis and the destruction of society through misuse of science.
This isn't about going back to Atlantis...going back to anything.
What exio and I are talking about is that in order to be truly successful in an Aquarian paradigm now we have to first complete, learn and integrate the lessons of the Piscean Age. BEFORE we try to leap forward. And this is not happening with the current world leaders...which is what you see with the current situations.
Big on the list of Piscean lessons to integrate and utilize is the idea that we are all connected, that my actions affect you and vice versa, that we're all in it together on this planet. Compassion for each other and a true understanding of why we should give a crap about each other. That way, we don't have science turning people into numbers and mistreating each other with nary a thought. We don't have that runaway detachment where no one cares about anyone else...or about humanity as a whole.
I'm not sure why that seems contradictory...makes perfect sense to me. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 10:51 AMThe Ages being divided by 12 for 360 degrees, each Age would consist of 30 degrees = 2160 years totaling 25920 years. Within the period of written history were Aries - warfare, Pisces - religion. The two were mixed throught, the warfare of Airies now and within the past several hundred years has been mixed with religion ('religious' wars). The Age of Aquarius - enlightenment, would contain elements of the past Pisces - religion for the next 2160 years. Hopefully we can move out of the warfare of Aries finally and go more towards educating and enlightening ourselves.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 12:05 PM<If we understand that we're all one, that my actions affect you, and vice versa, it should be beautiful. But if we get too caught up in alot of the ideas of "individualism" that are being pushed and passed off as "Aquarian" we're in some serious trouble. >
It was this statement about individualism that threw me for a loop. Care to clarify? -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 12:14 PMI read it as "don't confuse 'unity' with 'uniformity'"
love all-ways,
mem -
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 12:48 PMMaryEllen...I agree. This is where the problem comes with me and much of current establishment New Age. If you aren't "on board" with their ideologies, there is something wrong with you. You're just not "there yet" or aren't open to their grand truth, etc. Such silliness.
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 12:15 PM'Nexus7...the people didn't have much of a hand in how the current structures were set up. They're hierarchichal and have been set-up to basically move wealth from the bottom to the top. (Through the milking of labour) So they have been stacked against working people.
The current mess has more to do with corruption within those hierarchical set-ups...greed, lack of responsibility to the people, dishonesty, lack of integrity. It's not an example that people don't know how to create good situations for themselves...they haven't had a chance to try very often.'
No, I don't suppose the people did have much of a hand. I see plenty of corruption, with injustice, greed and lies at the top in the country I live in now. One in which a Utopian vison was imposed for 40 years, and not much lamented now, though a lot of people do lament, I suspect, the security they had with the old regime: homelssness and unemployment were unknown then.
It is a burning question I am wondering abou though: just how can sane, enabling infrastructures be brought into being? Or will 'human nature' always militate against this? -
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 12:45 PMNexus...I think it starts by going small. Working with your own life first, then branching out to become interdependent with like-minded people...then connecting to other groups, etc.
I think we have to stop looking to the structures as they currently exist and how we can fit into/be successful within them. The politicians are not our leaders...at the moment, anyway. Maybe never. There is too much of a disconnnect from the way the majority of people live.
So yeah...I absolutely think humans can do for themselves. We just can't do it in the same old ways. It takes breaking out of the structures that are killing us and becoming our own leaders.
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 12:36 PMThat comment relates to old Aquarius consciousness, I think. So throwback Aquarius, not heading-into-Aquarian-Age, learning-and-integrating-the-lessons-of-Pisces Aquarius. Exio can probably explain better? But I'll give my version, what I see...
So extreme individualism to the point of solipsism. I live in my world, you live in your's...no connection, no common responsibility, etc.
The idea that you can do whatever you want, buy whatever you want, live however you want...and you never have to think about the effect it has on anyone else or on the whole. "Because you deserve it!"
To me, the permeation of The Secret ideology has fallen into this for the most part. The idea that we create our own realities 100% through our own thoughts. That there are no other forces at work, there is no collective thought/consciousness creating anything and therefore no collective responsibility for the circumstances we find ourselves in on planet Earth. People in "negative" situations are choosing to keep themselves there with their "negative" thoughts. Case closed. End of analysis. So no understanding of any systemic/insitutional aspects of reality.
Looking at fellow human beings in a very emotionally detached, mechanical way. Purely intellect over emotion.
I think this is more along the lines of what Paul is seeing now.
So Aquarius without Pisces is the other end of the spectrum, the other area of disconnect we're experiencing right now in the transition time. You can think of it as science without spirituality, science without humanity, without that context or any responsibility to the whole.
The idea that the rational world is all that exists and anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional or a rube, etc. And making all decisions based on that idea.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 12:57 PM<To me, the permeation of The Secret ideology has fallen into this for the most part. The idea that we create our own realities 100% through our own thoughts. That there are no other forces at work, there is no collective thought/consciousness creating anything and therefore no collective responsibility for the circumstances we find ourselves in on planet Earth. People in "negative" situations are choosing to keep themselves there with their "negative" thoughts. Case closed. End of analysis. So no understanding of any systemic/insitutional aspects of reality.>
I totally agree. I also cannot believe how this junk psychology has gained such a foothold and rendered otherwise intelligent people buffoons. That along with ~ ahem ~ the "if you are upset with me, obviously you are really upset with yourself and are just projecting your ignorance, insecurities, hang-ups, and pathologies onto me" passive-aggressive crap that gets such a round of applause here and elsewhere. Both of these things are complete cop-outs when it comes to assuming personal responsibility within the Great Dynamic, in my opinon. What I cannot understand is how its transparent motives aren't detected from the get-go and laughed out of the house.
I think that what is best to realize is that for every answer, there is a new question, and when you park yourself on "answers," "fixes," "solutions," you are bound to fail. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 1:03 PM'To me, the permeation of The Secret ideology has fallen into this for the most part. The idea that we create our own realities 100% through our own thoughts'
I wonder who gains from the popularity of ideas suc as these. It does not actually encourage questioning the many social injustices around, not those who may have a versed interest in maintaining the status quo.
I saw a lot of it abou in the 80's. I graduated at a time when there were 500 graduated to one ob - my family was very right-wing, the milieau they lived n was very right wing - so guess what. Of course it was All My Fault. Then I met New Ages and ended up becoming with exactly the same ideology, as they were pushing their extortionately-expensive courses such as Est, rebirthing and the like.
Monica Sjöö wote a very hards-hitting critique on this in a book called New Age/Armageddon, incidentally. -
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 1:12 PM"I wonder who gains from the popularity of ideas suc as these."
Uh-huh. This is exactly the question people don't seem to ask themselves...and one of the more crucial ones, I think.
This is really synchronistic: since coming back to tribe (two days), I've had three separate people e-mail me directly to try to promote their groups/ideas. All have been in the "The Secret, positive-thinking-pushing" establishment New Age vein.
One of them came at me this way: "I've read your posts and I'm interested in your ideas. I have some information for you if you want to check your perceptions..." Ummmm...yeah. I'll get right on that.
Another e-mailed me through my blog letting me know that they had read my posts and wanted to understand the way I thought more closely. Apparently, it is a husband and wife team who have their own The Secret-esque websites. And of course, they couldn't pass up any opportunity to plug their sites, etc. The wife even left a comment on my blog with her website name included. Poor form. Thankfully, I moderate my comments section. heh heh -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 1:54 PMWillow ~
You may be interested in this long-ago thread on another tribe about this. You might also be interested in the eventual conclusion of that discussion. Miracles happen. LOL.
tribes.tribe.net/jung/thre...0190abe7bd
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 1:03 PM"That along with ~ ahem ~ the "if you are upset with me, obviously you are really upset with yourself and are just projecting your ignorance, insecurities, hang-ups, and pathologies onto me" passive-aggressive crap that gets such a round of applause here and elsewhere."
Oooh, yeah!
"If you don't like something about me, it's because it's a quality you don't like in YOURSELF!"
hahaha...yes, that's gotta be it!! It couldn't actually be that it's just not a quality I like, could it? It couldn't be that I'm using my own personal discernment here, could it? tee hee! -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 1:15 PM>>>hahaha...yes, that's gotta be it!! It couldn't actually be that it's just not a quality I like, could it? It couldn't be that I'm using my own personal discernment here, could it?<<<
Here, I'd include the idea of "Judging" as in "don't judge others" It is human nature to judge and discern, I would be a fool to not heed my judgment or discernment. You may be saying the same thing... -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 1:18 PMPiscean "openness" without Virgoan discernment? Recipe for disaster!
I should know. Pisces South Node in the 8th. :) -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 1:48 PMSorry, Willow ~ to which post were you commenting?
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 1:42 PMTo chime in on the Aquarian Individuality, And being all connected.
This is what Aqu stands for.
Our 11th house denotes our individualism w/in our community. We are all unique parts of a whole.
There is no point of being a specialized identity without the sharing of this energy with the group, and having the benefit of all the other specialized identities sharing with everyone else.
This how the "Tribe" survives the hunt, the winter, ect
A good sports team has a whole bunch of specialised members. working as a whole (Team) they may win the game.
It's the 5th (the Sun Leo, self expression) and 11th (Uranus, Aqu, community) Polarity axis. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 1:56 PM<<It's the 5th (the Sun Leo, self expression) and 11th (Uranus, Aqu, community) Polarity axis.>>
Thanks Dragon-of-Q. This polarity axis idea more accurately represents for me the Aquarian Age dynamic. If we focus too much on one archetype over the exclusion of its opposite, we only feed the shadow. And if we are not to make Leo the shadow (and scpaegoat) of the Aquarian age, we must somehow learn to rest easier with our unique talents (instead of feeling insecure about them) and embrace the ego that comes with those distinctions. We cannot expect to get over ourselves before we have developed enough self to get over.
The purpose of developing ego, or selfhood, is to eventually have enough self to offer. Perhaps, with enough of these self-developing Leonine qualities we can participate at a new level of group unity based, not in any tribal mind merging while losing our distinction but rather, with individual integrities intact in a miraculous interaction of self-governing bodies. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 2:09 PMI think a great example of this is the emergence of Co-Housing. One has their own space and privacy, but they live within a community of others. An extended family of sorts. I think this arrangement is wonderful for so many types of people; Seniors, single parents, working familys. Open space and group amenities are shared, buildings and grounds are arranged to facilitate knowing your neighbors. Residents are expected to share their talents in ongoing activities. -
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 2:13 PMYeeeeah, I would still hate that. But interesting concept for other, less misantropic people. :)
Luckily there is no single prescription for how to live in Aquarius. We can all have what we need. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 2:29 PMI hear ya loud and clear Willow....and I cannot say what is best for you : )
I too am extremely introverted ei; I need a lot of time alone with myself to recharge my batteries. And I struggle with the choices at hand...I could go live alone on my relatively remote 100 acres...sometimes that sounds quite nice. However, I do find that when I challenge my introversion, I feel more effective and alive...and ready for some alone time.
Currently, I am a single parent living in a area that is fairly new to me. Some local social support would be nice to have once in a while. Co housing offers its residents a built in support system for people such as myself, and others like seniors who live away from their extended familys. I suppose it is easier to imagine a life alone when one is young and independent, but as our lives grow, we encounter circumstances when we need other peoples assistance. If I were to become very ill or need some assistance, I am certain I would appreciate those relationships that came "with the territory" of Co housing. -
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 2:35 PMOh, sure. With the right mix of people, I imagine it could be lovely.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 2:36 PMI agree, FaF. BTW, I live in a condo community that provides a few of the amenities you mentioned, and I have no problem being undisturbed. No one is pushing any forced comaraderie on me, but if I scream loud enough, the cops are here in a heart beat. LOL! -
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the LEO/AQUARIUS group unity of mutual autonomy
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 3:28 PMI'm part of a group of ritualists, ParaTheatrical ReSearch, engaging the idiosyncratic group unity defined by the Aquarius/Leo polarity axis brought up here. We work in a private 'asocial' climate of mutually accepted solitude that allows for withdrawal as much as voluntary and spontaneous interaction. This asocial approach acts as a safe haven for the misanthopic, introverted and even antisocial personalities often attracted into this process.
Beyond occasionally mentioning this work here and on other tribes, we don't recruit or advertise this primarily underground process, though anyone can read about it on the web. Those who are meant to find us, tend to find us. I bring it up here as an example, albeit distant from anything mainstream, of the LEO/AQUARIUS group unity of mutual autonomy.
www.paratheatrical.com/orientation.html -
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Unsu...
Re: the LEO/AQUARIUS group unity of mutual autonomy
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 4:00 PMOooh. I dig it. Sounds nice. I think I'm excessively vertically AND horizontally-oriented right now. hahaha If possible. Guh.
Makes me think fixed sign grand cross stuff...
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 3:24 PMFaF...are you encountering those situations right now? Or just planning for the future?
Because I do understand that. I don't have much of a support system at the ready, either, and it's sometimes unnerving.
But I think it's imp. to remember that it's also these times we're living in...they're creating anxiety related to the dissolving of old structures, long-term security, stuff like that. It stirs up fear that makes us feel more vulnerable than we are. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 3:35 PMWell, my health and well being are fine for the time being... : )
You are correct, it is anxiety about the future, as well as considering the myriad of possibilities available to me. I am at a crossroads in my life where I have to make some choices. Not in a hurry, but I want to choose well....so perhaps needless worry....T Neptune Conj my N Saturn....
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 2:19 PMI've always liked the co-housing concepts. Similar in a few respects to communes yet different in others.
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 1:26 PMSomething I heard the other day and have been contemplating...
"I don't have to make everyone happy."
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 1:47 PMYeah, and if you try, call your travel agent for a ticket to the mental institution. -
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 1:57 PMHeh, can be quite the habit to break.
Course just be aware cause if you go on vacation or on a visit to an institution you might end up voluteering your services to people then as well. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 2:00 PMAnd that happens all the time. LOL! -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 2:31 PMThank God it is possible to use Putonium to blast yourself out of it. 20cc 18 times a day does the trick.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 3:33 PM"'To me, the permeation of The Secret ideology has fallen into this for the most part. The idea that we create our own realities 100% through our own thoughts'
I wonder who gains from the popularity of ideas suc as these. It does not actually encourage questioning the many social injustices around, not those who may have a versed interest in maintaining the status quo."
Exactly... individualism used as isolationism... to keep individuals in competition with each other instead of cooperation. You are responsible for your life and no one else's. And, of course, as you mentioned, promotes a degree of inactivity in dealing with the injustices that are prevalent. I think that the Earth houses are very important in seeing this... especially the second house where our basic values are seated. In the age of Pisces you get an Aries second house... we see this as competition and our ability to compete is valued. The "go-getters", "doers", or people who like to take on roles of leadership are valued above those who would prefer to take directions from others.
And these same basic values are being pushed as "Aquarian"... that we are all our own leaders and completely responsibility for our own actions... or as Willow so eloquently put it, "there is no collective thought/consciousness creating anything and therefore no collective responsibility for the circumstances we find ourselves in on planet Earth." The anarchists and libertarians like to glorify chaos, this idea of personal "liberty". From a very simplistic view, this appears to value the individual. But it really only values the "go-getters", "doers", etc. It's the same model that we've been working with since the dawn of civilization. This is Piscean Age thought, not Aquarian.
But to understand that some individuals would prefer to take direction (thank god, lest we not end up with "too many chefs in the kitchen"), and that these people are just as necessary and valuable to society is another story. We're beginning from a point of seeing each person as an individual with something to bring to the table. This is truly respectful and supportive of the individual... this is what I was talking about when I brought up the Aquarian ability to see each person's talents and how they fit into the whole.
"Homogenous humanity is a very scary concept to me. And I think that it is not only unrealistic, but undesirable from a collective psychic hygiene standpoint, to go too far in rejecting the essential need for some conflict and struggle in the human experience. Not only is Mars here for a reason, but so are Saturn and Pluto."
Yes... Mars, Saturn, and Pluto are still there, as are the Moon and Neptune. It's not about getting rid of "leaders" and "followers", but respecting the need for both. Not that in order to be promoting the Aquarian Age, you need to reject any leaders, and if you happen to be one of the people who prefer to take direction (or "sheep" as they're often called in those circles), you're not with it. It's not a glorification of chaos, but accepting that Saturn, a desire for some type of social structure, is still there. And there's still competition, it's just not glorified.
There may still be "hierarchy" in some form, if you see some people giving direction and others taking direction as hierarchy. It's more about changing our relationship to Saturnian "hierarchy", understanding that both sides are necessary to and valuable to society.
And, yes, there will still be conflict and struggle in the human experience. You may still take on a role only to find out that that role doesn't suit you. You may still be lost or confused as to what your role is. And you'll still be playing the game of interaction and of personal growth which are most often infused with conflict and struggle.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 3:52 PMOh... and as for Saturn still being in play. One of the things that's supposed to come with the Age of Aquarius is more autonomy through the use of technology. Today, we have extremely fast forms of mass communication which opens up the possibility of direct democracy. No more elected representatives who in turn become the top of a hierarchical structure. Not anarchy, where there are no rules or structure and where you are not asked in any way to consider the collective. But a way of allowing people, as a collective, to rule themselves.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 4:06 PM>>Oh... and as for Saturn still being in play. One of the things that's supposed to come with the Age of Aquarius is more autonomy through the use of technology. Today, we have extremely fast forms of mass communication which opens up the possibility of direct democracy. No more elected representatives who in turn become the top of a hierarchical structure. Not anarchy, where there are no rules or structure and where you are not asked in any way to consider the collective. But a way of allowing people, as a collective, to rule themselves. <<
In order for this to be effective , the people must first reclaim the media. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 4:35 PM<<In order for this to be effective , the people must first reclaim the media. >>
...by producing more media than we are consuming.... -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 4:39 PM<<In order for this to be effective , the people must first reclaim the media. >>
>> ...by producing more media than we are consuming.... <<
either task is daunting indeed...given the american population -
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producing more media than you are creating
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 5:01 PM>> ...by producing more media than we are consuming.... <<
<either task is daunting indeed...given the american population>
yes both are duanting but consider the consequences of each daunt.
the creation and production of media may be just as important, and sometimes moreso, than achieving mainstream recognition from the american population. there's a rapidly expanding movement of those who have reclaimed not only the media in their lives but also the Imagination to create content for a number of multi-platform outlets thanks to the national digital conversion of television, YouTube and their many mimcs, countless dvd distruibution houses and global online streaming agencies. what used to be the la-la-land pipe dreams of the many has now become realities for those with the ambition and talent for making their dreams come true. I should know; i am one of the many.
www.youtube.com/watch
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Re: producing more media than you are creating
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 5:35 PMSwell.
Basically, though, it is, was, and is most likely to remain the instrument par excellence of propaganda, such as the discussion concernng The Secret showed. One thing that is good at the moment is that information online is still in a relatively random state. There is no one on the web "editing" everything for us ~ yet, so we are free to accept or reject without any further assistance. I challenges us to think for ourselves and make our own, unaided judgments regarding content. But the big boys sure want to get their fingers all over it as we speak. -
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Re: producing more media than you are creating
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 5:53 PM<<But the big boys sure want to get their fingers all over it as we speak.>>
Don't I know it. So far, I have turned down every industry offer to sell out my catalog. But you know what they say, "Everybody has their price." Who knows....I may be eating my own words some day as just another indy sell-out counting his piles of dirty money. -
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Re: producing more media than you are creating
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 5:53 PMall media is propaganda, whether it's self-created or mass-produced -
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Re: producing more media than you are creating
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 5:59 PMExactly my point. -
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Re: producing more media than you are creating
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 6:00 PMI don't think we can reclaim what we never really had in the first place. -
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Re: producing more media than you are creating
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 6:16 PM<<I don't think we can reclaim what we never really had in the first place.>>
But we can reinvent, redefine and revision it for a more updated and creative use.
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Unsu...
Re: producing more media than you are creating
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 9:10 PMwoah cool video sherpa!
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 4:08 PMWell, there is the concept of anarchism...rather than anarchy. Anarchism, from what I understand, is more about naturally developing systems and such. So it's no free-for-all. There are still...erm...coagulating forces, so to speak, that bring people together and "ways of getting things done" that develop.
I do think that Aquarius has to do with being one's own final authority...but yes, this doesn't mean that everyone is "the leader." I guess it's more an idea that leadership doesn't mean a place of hierarchical power, necessarily. That the leaders are no more special than anyone else involved, just more suited to that natural position. Clearing that whole "leader ego" is going to be a mite tricky, though, I think. hahaha -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 4:35 PMA mite tricky, you think? Here is where we start veering into la la land, my friends.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 3:57 PM<The anarchists and libertarians like to glorify chaos, this idea of personal "liberty". From a very simplistic view, this appears to value the individual. But it really only values the "go-getters", "doers", etc. It's the same model that we've been working with since the dawn of civilization. This is Piscean Age thought, not Aquarian>
That is Age of Horseshit thought, in my opinion. The only folks around that I think show any realism or common sense are the Libertarians and Constitutionalists. It is not anarchy. It is "Get the Bastards Out." Get back to getting Real. That sort of thing. No-nonsense, Aquarian clarity.
<And, yes, there will still be conflict and struggle in the human experience. You may still take on a role only to find out that that role doesn't suit you. You may still be lost or confused as to what your role is. And you'll still be playing the game of interaction and of personal growth which are most often infused with conflict and struggle.>
And, yes, we may still be human. And we may never escape that, as though that is even desirable.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 5:12 PM"Anarchism, from what I understand, is more about naturally developing systems and such."
Just like the one we live in right now. Kind of reminds me of "Player Piano" by Kurt Vonnegut... the revolution comes and everything's torn apart. And as soon as it's torn apart people begin to collect the remnants and build the exact same things that they just tore apart.
"The only folks around that I think show any realism or common sense are the Libertarians and Constitutionalists."
To a degree, i agree. But the constitution was also written when the population of the country was a tiny fraction of what it is today. And in a time when they didn't have the technology that we have today. They had to send someone on a horse to Washington to report the voting results of a state. That was the closest they could get to "government by the people for the people". Today, we have the ability to get alot closer.
And when you look at history in a real perspective, the beginning of the U.S. while the constitution reigned was not that splendid. Slavery was rampant, laborers were overworked and underpaid far beyond what they are today, etc. And where we're at today is a direct result of the guidance of "the invisible hand".
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 5:27 PMIt was primarily about precepts, not specifics, and the precepts need not be abandoned just because it is a little more unweildy specifically. I see nothing in the notion of civil liberties as the Constitution them put forward that by fiat must be abandoned because the population grew. I think Paul is having to struggle with the demoishing of civil liberties while witnessing no need for that. That can be true of us, too.
Certainly, this place a couple of hundred + years ago was no Utopia, nor is it now nor has been nor is likely to be. But the fact is that we have advanced away from many of the historic ills, only to pitch the method of advancement in the dung heap now along the way. It is that which is the outrage. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 6:07 PM". But the fact is that we have advanced away from many of the historic ills, only to pitch the method of advancement in the dung heap now along the way. It is that which is the outrage."
I'm not sure what advancements you're talking about, nor what method of advancement.
"I see nothing in the notion of civil liberties as the Constitution them put forward that by fiat must be abandoned because the population grew."
It's the constitution that tells us how our representatives are elected... and that we're to have representatives in the first place. Technologically, we've advanced a LONG way from messengers on horses.
No... this place a couple of hundred years ago was far from a Utopia. And where we are today is a direct result of where we were a couple hundred years ago. That's how we got here in the first place.
Mostly, I agree with you. The constitution is a good basis. But it could use some updating (which is why the forefathers left the option of amendments).
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 6:15 PMThe advancements I mean are the corrections of wrongs of the past. And the method of advancement I mean is the exercise and preservation of civil liberties along the way.
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 5:28 PM"And as soon as it's torn apart people begin to collect the remnants and build the exact same things that they just tore apart."
Possibly...but I'm seeing promising things. For example, independent cattle producers are receiving an absolute pittance from the corporate system, basically working for free as fast food joints sell hamburgers for 99 cents, etc. In Canada, the U.S. maintains a ban of Canadian cattle contrary to the ever-touted NAFTA.
Some of these indy farmers are getting out of the corporate system and taking control of the whole process start to finish. Marketing their own stuff. They are also raising cattle much more naturally, without growth hormones and such. In Winnipeg, a group of these people got together and started their own processing plant.
So regardless of how you feel about meat, I think new directions like this are promising. At the very least, showing that people aren't willing to be slaves in the corporate system anymore and that they are willing to take a chance on something different.
I'm sure it's not perfect, and there probably is an annoying hierarchy involved (considering we have just started Pluto in Cap)...but it's something...esp. since most cattle ranchers are very conservative. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 5:43 PMOn the other hand, you may not be aware of the current threat to organic and local crop farming: H.R. 875 and S 425.
people.tribe.net/rareworlds/blog
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 6:22 PMYes... there are certainly some good things happening. There will always be and have always been people doing good things. And there will always be people doing bad things... and sometimes doing it very well. Anarchy is always there, there's no such thing as not anarchy. Chaos is what we start with, then we organize over top of it. But ultimately, the farmers are just building the same system over again. That's how it started in the first place. I'm not saying that it's not possible that it'll turn out different this time... Kurt Vonnegut actually left that up in the air. But I have my doubts. What happens when more and more farmers get involved? How will they deal with the bureaucracy that's inevitable as things grow? How will they deal with the competition from the corporations once the corporations see this niche market and want to jump in?
This has all been done before. I grew up on a dairy farm. Co-ops have risen and fallen over and over again. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 6:28 PMMy link is about how the corps are already trying to kill the small, local organic farms and the little neighborhood farmers' markets. The bills to do this are before Congress now. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 6:30 PMYou might have to start filling out forms and paying fees and using chemicals to grow tomatoes in your backyard. Of course, these are "food safety" bills sponsored by corporate farms, such as Monsanto. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 6:39 PM"food safety" a great place to start regarding food safety might be to stop fertilizing crops with sludge laden with pharmaceutical and chemical residuals. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 6:49 PMThat is the irony. The Corps are rendering organic farming as unsafe. It is quite amazing, but apparently the Corps feel threatened by Farmer Joe and his carrots. Rather than "retool" and get with the better program, they would prefer to kill the better way instead. And this is about....food safety? Looks like $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to me.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 6:47 PMhere is a post & thread from the Raw Wisdom tribe, where this legislation was discussed:
I've spent many hours looking into this, and have read the bill twice. There are threads about this on Grow Organic, Gaia Tribe, and others, and i've written extensively about it on these. Here is an article i wrote this morning for a small local publication in my county:
There are thousands of sites and messages spreading fear that there is a bill about to outlaw organic farming. I have read H.R. 875: Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009 twice now, and can tell you a lot about it. First, it is very long and boring, but actually less so than I expected, and I have come to love it, particularly the whistleblower protection provisions which I hope become the standard for this sort of legislation. The bill splits the FDA into two new agencies, the Federal Food Administration (FFA) and the Federal Drug and Device Agency (still the FDA). It outlines responsibilities of the new agencies and their organizational architecture. Congress hopes these steps will put an end to the salmonella and E. coli contamination in commercial food. This is a good idea for all concerned, as consumers do not like to be poisoned and it is just plain bad business to poison your customers. It is agro-business, organic as well as non organic that has been responsible for E. coli outbreaks, and small farmers are hurt by the public fears these raise.
The first family just started an organic garden on the white house lawn. Given this, it is extremely unlikely that anybody is going to outlaw organic farming. I wish the food industry was not an industry, and hope more people come to grow more of their own food and to support small local agriculture. I do not like Monsanto one little bit. But this bill has nothing at all to do with Monsanto or genetic engineering or place impose any regulatory burden specific to organic agriculture. This bill is about bringing basic hygienic standards to meat packing plants, dairy producers, canning factories, peanut butter processing plants and restaurants. There is an obvious need for better standards, and this bill I think is a well crafted and good faith effort towards that.
I find the mass replication of outright lies and misinformation on this and other subjects a very troubling trend. I think we have a responsibility to think about things and not simply let our fears be activated, and to dispassionately investigate source materials and seek out other opinions before passing on warnings that we are not sure of. These campaigns of misinformation are typically started by people who stand to economically benefit from specific legislation, and who mobilize an army of well meaning but uninformed and fearful citizens. It takes considerable diligence to keep poisons out of our information systems, just as it does to keep toxic materials out of our food
wil
tribes.tribe.net/rawadvice...f875e08fbc
I have always found wil to be an exceptionally trustworthy source, plus, he read the bill & I did not.
love all-ways,
mem -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 6:56 PM<I have always found wil to be an exceptionally trustworthy source, plus, he read the bill & I did not>
LOL!
I am always glad to hear a good debunk, even if you didn't read the bill, mem.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 6:56 PMYeah... my response was to Willow.
As for the bill... have you read it? I've seen this circling around with the big URGENT warning on it, telling people to oppose it. I still haven't read it, but from what I've seen, the people who have say it does nothing of what these people are saying it does.
There's a discussion on it in the Raw Wisdom Tribe. Here's the link to the discussion there:
tribes.tribe.net/rawadvice...f918980dcb
Will, who's very into organic and local farming is very supportive of the bill in question.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 6:58 PMoops... a little late, I guess. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 7:15 PMI sure missed a lot in the last few hours, I had to stop and deal w/ my son. The mars Saturn thing is like explosive in him at the moment.
Guess I got Sherpa inspired w/ the Aqu Leo thing. well he did birth the thinking in me.
well this is what I wrote LIKE 3 1/2 HOURS AGO!!!
The death of the family unit. Throughout the 60's, folks tested the idea of self sufficient communities but we all know those fizzled out.
I wonder about the idea of Aqu society and how that could actually work w/ the way Humans function. We fight, kill, a dna ingrained instinct to dominate the other and win. It's sorta how we still exist. Survival of the fittest. Not so sure of some long term changes, and maybe this is a silly thing to even deal with, something many hundreds of years from now. Focus on out 1st steps, w/ maybe some thought to a far off future. Well isn't that more a Neptune sorta thing.
But for the here and now, moving the other discussion here (that fizzled into silly posts..lol)
These 3 generations of Pluto in Libra and Scorpio & Sag. even. These will be the main body of our society over the years to come.
With Pluto transiting Cap and the breaking down of current power structures, It's the task to birth (cancer) some new management.
Anyone here of the thinking that in years to come my generation will lead what I guess is the Pluto Libra generation into rebuilding a new society?
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 7:10 PMSure...all I really mean is that the will is there. We're not (quite) dead yet.
My father is as conservative (old school, not neo-con) as they come, and he now sees through the current regime. He is scaling back his operation because he sees that hard work does not get results anymore in this system. Sure, he sees this with my assistance (heh heh), but he sees it. His lifelong mantra was work harder than the next guy and you'll get ahead. Now he's seeing how things are stacked against the working folks...
So as small as it is, this is progress in my own life. I don't pay much attention to the current regime because I've always known it was corrupt. Nothing surprises me anymore. But now people I never would have thought are realizing it, and I can't help but feel good about even the tiniest signs of progress becase this is what I've worked for my entire life. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 7:21 PMYes. That is what I meant about No Right, No Left. I am amazed to see it, but there it is. And I, too, keep seeing it in the darnedest places.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 8:15 PMYeah... I don't mean to rain on your parade. There are definitely good things happening. These kind of things are certainly becoming more mainstream. But I also remain leary... I never underestimate the ability of the power structures to turn these things to their advantage.
Funny thing is, I'm not anti-corporate. We just need to change the way they operate... how people invest, how profits are divided, etc. If you like anarchy, just go to Wall Street. I'm too lazy to go back through, but earlier in this thread someone brought up respect for the past. We have to realize that the present is the past of tomorrow. Some of the things that seem horrible right now are not inherently bad, just not being dealt with right. It's easy for us to look at the past with rose-tinted lenses and then end up shifting into reverse... building the same flawed ship over again.
Some degree of bureaucracy is kind of necessary... it's always been there and always will be. The idea of going back to a sort of tribal community-based grass roots structure on every level just isn't happening. There will be bureaucracy... and there are some individuals who enjoy dealing with the bureaucracy.
One of the things I worry about is the people who want to blow it all apart. Or those who think it's going to happen. I really don't see it happening. And if we just sit around waiting for (or pushing for) the big meltdown, we're gonna miss our chance to start from where we're at right now and make it work for us. Then it really will take over and we will see an Orewellian or cyberpunk dystopia.
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 8:27 PMOh, no one's raining on my parade.
As I said, I deal mainly in the personal these days. I know what's happening there. As far as the rest of y'all...do as you will. The only revolution I care about is the common sense revolution. -
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 8:28 PMI think it's a mistake to look at what is going on now and say, oh it's all been done before. It'll never work. We really are working with different circumstances right now. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Tue, April 7, 2009 - 8:53 AM" I think it's a mistake to look at what is going on now and say, oh it's all been done before. It'll never work. We really are working with different circumstances right now."
I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that if we are going to make it work, we really have to look at why it hasn't worked in the past. I also think it's a mistake to assume that things are so extremely different now that what hasn't worked in the past is suddenly going to work. Things are really not that much different than they were 10, 15, 20, 50 years ago.
The natural foods movement started very small and grass-roots, like most movements. Then the money came in and took over. Same as the settling of America and modern gentrification. The grass-roots movements are used as "pioneer species", just like the poor and oppressed Europeans were used to pioneer America... let them deal with the hostility of the natives, get something set up, and once it's safe and profitable the money moves in and takes over.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Tue, April 7, 2009 - 9:04 AM" I think it's a mistake to look at what is going on now and say, oh it's all been done before. It'll never work. We really are working with different circumstances right now."
I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that if we are going to make it work, we really have to look at why it hasn't worked in the past. I also think it's a mistake to assume that things are so extremely different now that what hasn't worked in the past is suddenly going to work. Things are really not that much different than they were 10, 15, 20, 50 years ago.
The natural foods movement started very small and grass-roots, like most movements. Then the money came in and took over. Same as the settling of America and modern gentrification. The grass-roots movements are used as "pioneer species", just like the poor and oppressed Europeans were used to pioneer America... let them deal with the hostility of the natives, get something set up, and once it's safe and profitable the money moves in and takes over. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Tue, April 7, 2009 - 9:05 AMOops... stupid Tribe. Looks like they need to do some more maintenance.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 8:45 PMA few years ago, I had a thought experiment about a Common Sense Corporation ~ sort of a consulting firm for companies that had lost their common sense. I figured that it was bound to be a huge business success since common sense seems to be what is most needed, but which is most lacking these days, so if you can provide it, you will have a huge clientele. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 8:47 PMthere is no such thing as common sense ~ if it is common why is it so hard to come by?
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 8:50 PM"Common Sense" Nope just the Bottom Line.
Would be nice though
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 8:39 PMExio- "I never underestimate the ability of the power structures to turn these things to their advantage."
Ahh the disalutionment of the generation following the 60's movement.
They believed they we are going to change the world. In some ways they did, opend up eastern philosophies from a wasp sociaty and ........
well stuff...
BUT..
The power structure learned a few tricks from it to, then what happend, Disco the 70's eeek, my cooming of age was a total disalusionment. "what the fuck happend, willing to take the ball But...Just stupid Hippy Dippy. Then the next just got pissed, and that isn't getting anyone anywere. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 8:57 PMWell... also just in my own lifetime. The talk of co-ops. I watched the feed and dairy co-ops that my parents were a part of fall to the big boys. I went to work in a natural foods co-op when I was 18. It was struggling and sooner or later fell to the big boys. Whole Foods Market displacing local co-ops, and even Wal-Mart now peddling "organic" food. They see a market, march in with their virtually unlimited funds and launch a Reagan-esque Cold War on the people who started it.
And the Eastern Religions... they took that over to. I'm completely with Willow on the New Age b.s. being passed around... much of it based on eastern religion.
Nexus said something really interesting about this, too. Here it is:
"Then I met New Ages and ended up becoming with exactly the same ideology, as they were pushing their extortionately-expensive courses such as Est, rebirthing and the like."
I met a guy who was in S.F. to cover the Yoga convention. His feelings were interesting... he saw the whole money side of it, and that it was very cult-like. All about what great Yoga master you've studied under to become more "enlightened" than any of those poor people who can't afford that yogi's rates. That was his take on it. And I certainly see a very fascist/classist side to alot of the New Age and natural foods movements. An Onion headline awhile back went something like this:
"Whole Foods Market Turns Yet Another Ordinary Vegetable Into Status Symbol"
Right on.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 8:10 PMwelll every age had its tyrants. let's face it...if we ever really progressed as a species, we wouldn't be run by the same old animal instincs-society and individually.
Every Age is gonna bring its own form of "the devil", because we are only human. But with Aquarius the devil is a more well-defined concept, that's all. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 8:14 PMpersonally, I'd say the US winning independence from the "old world" might've been among the first clear signals of the "transition" from Pisces to Aquarius, because we're not there yet.
I'm guessing microchips behind our ears and a world government will say we're there. Might not be long.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 8:42 PM"welll every age had its tyrants. let's face it...if we ever really progressed as a species, we wouldn't be run by the same old animal instincs-society and individually."
You had a post awhile back about the ages moving backwards. I think I'm starting to understand this some. After the Age of Aries, Aries moves to the second house and becomes the basis of our values. The attitudes of the preceding age become more fixed in a sense. The fact that we're still run by the same old animal instincts is actually changing. Those animal instincts of competitiveness and conquest are about to fade away to some degree.
I had a conversation with my new neighbor the other day... a hardcore libertarian who says it's all about the alphas, and basically that everyone else can go to hell. Then I started to think about the role of the alpha. In animals, the alpha doesn't just take and take and leave nothing but scraps to the rest. As humans, we have these sort of faux alphas... not really alphas at all, but through a strange abstraction take on the appearance of an alpha, like, say they have alot of money (the ability to provide and protect). But they're not real alphas because they don't understand their role... to provide and protect. It's animal instinct. But animal instinct always moves toward survival and advancement of the species. We're starting to see this... that the "alphas" are not providing for our survival and advancement.
I guess that's the nature of the fixed 2nd house... to cling to things even as they're outmoded. I think alot of these Arian instincts are being questioned... the entire idea of the alpha is being questioned. We're moving away from an age where the Earth houses are ruled by the competition, conquest, and desire to lead of the fire signs... where the drive to lead is not at the core of our value system pushing those in leadership positions to be more valued. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 8:48 PMoh, sorry. I mean "socially and individually"
"Those animal instincts of competitiveness and conquest are about to fade away to some degree. " are they? the way I see it, the wolves are just preparing to take on the sheep's clothing, is all.
competition leads to material progress, that's all. but what is matter if not constant recycling? Every generation strives to be the best-MATERIALLY-then dies, and another takes its place and on and on, but we never really make any progress. we're still stuck in our initial condition.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 8:49 PM<We're moving away from an age where the Earth houses are ruled by the competition, conquest, and desire to lead of the fire signs... where the drive to lead is not at the core of our value system pushing those in leadership positions to be more valued.>
exio ~ I did not understand this. Would you clarify? -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 9:53 PMIn the Age of Pisces you have Aries on the 2nd house... the seat of our values. So in the Age of Pisces, Aries traits are valued.
The idea of value maintains through the other Earth signs, and the idea of assertiveness/leadership maintains through the other fire signs. Imo, the Earth houses are where reality manifests, the 10th house being the ultimate manifestation of the collective unconscious... which is why Jupiter rules the Age of Pisces (Sag on the 10th), Saturn ruled the Age of Aries (Cap on the 10th), and Ouranos ruled the Age of Taurus (Aqua on the 10th). It's also why in our natal chart the 10th represents career or calling... it's how we, personally, fit into the physical manifestation of the collective unconscious.
At least according to me.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 8:51 PMSo what would occur if we had a redistribution of wealth, and operated under a "bubble up" economy? A topic currently discussed in my home...hard to speculate, I know. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 9:07 PMbubble up...just a concept I have been exploring with my mate...redistribute the wealth...give the money to the people and see where it goes....we are currently enduring trickle down economics, but it's not trickling down is it? Give the wealth to the people, see if it bubbles up ... -
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 9:14 PMits pretty complicated... i think...
I think its necessary to have some hierarchy and competition..because I really do think theres an art involved... but I don't think the gap should be so large...and I think that really sophisticated computer programers should share similar status to very sophisticated farmers, or child care providers, professors
I really think customer service can be a difficult job, and not for everyone... there are people who find it easy, but then theres people doing it who hate it and struggle through it.... there should be emphasis placed on effort i think!
I don't think these problems can be solved all on the macro level or all on the micro level..just like astrology...we wouldnt say that we're totally only affected by the cosmos anymore than we are affected by our personal day to day experiences and choices individually -
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 9:17 PMoh gosh. i meant to say that the gap SHOULLDNT be so large
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 9:14 PM -
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 9:19 PMhmmm, whatever bubbles bubbles up....are their any sociological theories about this??? -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 9:22 PMno, it's a genuine homegrown idea. product of Libra and Aquarius conversations....actually, one of many . : ) this may be one of the more sane ideas -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 9:37 PMIt seems to me that it makes far more sense to distribute the bonuses and perks to the workers rather than to the CEOs who basically go out and play golf and call that a business meeting. Multiple million dollar bonuses are obscene to give anyone for basically being a front man. The production department that is the heart of the business should see that money instead. That to me would be a "bubble up".
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 8:59 PM>So what would occur if we had a redistribution of wealth
well i think the distribution of wealth is really unfair because of the emphasize it places its values....... I think all jobs and postions in society should be respected, and i think there are levels within those fields that are more advanced...obviously....
I think the real problem in our society is the wage gap.... most of our country falls into the category of 'working poor'
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 9:28 PMProper distribution of wealth is huge to me. In any system, balance breeds sustainability... this is 7th house/Libra territory. You want you're marriage to last, you'd better figure out how to balance it. There are theories that site inequality of income to the cause of the Great Depression.
I think there's a natural snowball effect if you allow the free market to completely rule. As everything's based on supply and demand, so is the value of labor. As the value of certain types of labor go down (because there are alot of people who are capable of doing the job) people doing those jobs work even more, which in turn pushes the demand down further yet and the value with it.
We're seeing this in the fading of the middle class. Everyone and their uncle has a degree at this point. So they're devalued. The rich keep more and more and sooner or later that imbalance causes an economic collapse. The banks lend out to people who aren't making enough to pay back the loans, because the banks gotta keep lending to survive. A recipe for disaster.
What would happen if we had a redistribution of wealth.... well first of all the conservatives and libertarians would have a fit :-)
I wouldn't recommend redistributing existing wealth, but enacting something along the lines of mandatory profit-sharing. Laws that work by percentages to say how profits are distributed. It keeps income reasonably balanced so that prices can never go beyond what any working person can afford. Then let the free market take it from there. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 9:45 PMActually, if you listen to Ron Paul, he is always talking about putting the money back in the pockets of the people and not asking them to pay for things that they shouldn't have to pay for. He also has quite a bit to say about living within one's means, which to me smacks of common sense and responsibility.
I think, exio, that you can see from my post re. FaF's bubbling up that we see "redistribution" rather similarly. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 10:09 PMWell sure... Ron Paul wants less taxes. But who really benefits from less taxes? 10% of someone's $18K a year is only $1800. But take 10% off of someones $1.5M income and you get enough to buy quite a bit more property... expand even further. I watched a ton of conservative family farmers vote for the tax breaks that would end up putting them out of business... or at least expedite the process.
I'd like to see less taxes, too. But not without more equal distribution of wealth. If wealth were reasonably divided, we'd hardly have a need for public schools, as pretty much everyone would be able to afford to send their kids to private school. Government grants for college? Get a damn job and you can pay for it yourself... without having to take out loans. No more need for welfare, etc, etc, etc. If we held the companies generating profits responsible for distributing those profits reasonably, we'd have very little need for any government programs.
And competition is actually promoted by the fact that anyone can afford to start a business. The media is no longer controlled by the few who took way more than their share. Politics are no longer controlled by the minority.
I see that you believe in some sort of control on the distribution of wealth... not very libertarian of you :-) -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 10:55 PMThe Politics tribe moved in to astronuts...lol
not complaining just think it's funny.
I think the big est problem we have today is a corporate world that runs the government rather than the other way around.
In order to change anything drastically it takes ALOT of money. If a government actually worked for the people in stead of a choice few, then the things exio mentioned about big business taking over the co-op or local industries, would have a general public interest. and not just the ones that already have it all.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Tue, April 7, 2009 - 9:50 AMI am not a Libertarian. I am a Constitutionalist.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Tue, April 7, 2009 - 12:50 AM'Proper distribution of wealth is huge to me. In any system, balance breeds sustainability.'
At no point in written history has there ever been a successful government that has distributed the wealth evenly. In all cases there have been the hierarchy of the wealthy and powerful, the well off and stable, the poor and struggling. Today is no different. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Tue, April 7, 2009 - 2:42 AMAs of Monday this week ALL internet traffic is legally required to be stored and submitted to the UK government.
This means all emails recipients are noted and flagged, all social networking sites are legally required to store data of friends listing and submit that data to the United Kingdom government. All data is to be stored for 12 months. Every couple of weeks the UK sees headlines regarding the loss of just this very kind of data from government officials.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/techn...7985664.stm -
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Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Tue, April 7, 2009 - 10:54 AM'As of Monday this week ALL internet traffic is legally required to be stored and submitted to the UK government'
Oh, what?????
Just pertaining to the UK or globally? And who is checking all the traffic - the Special Branch, or what???? -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Wed, April 8, 2009 - 1:33 AM"Oh, what?????
Just pertaining to the UK or globally? And who is checking all the traffic - the Special Branch, or what???? "
All internet traffic that goes through the UK will be monitored and stored as a legal requirement of all ISPs etc. Any government official can request access to those files. So the details of all users who send and receive emails as well as web-calls will be stored for government scrutinisation, supposedly to help stop terrorist activity. Apparantly they feel that terrorists regularly use facebook.
Just relooking at it, and this one is actually the EU that is pushing it. You can read more here from the BBC website:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/techn...7985339.stm
"Isabella Sankey, Policy Director at Liberty, said the directive formalised what had already been taking place under voluntary arrangement for years.
"The problem is that this regime allows not just police to access this information but hundreds of other public bodies." " -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Wed, April 8, 2009 - 3:23 AMNothing like using the fear of terrosim to justify Big Brother tactics..... -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Wed, April 8, 2009 - 3:35 AMThat is the typical way those things are done. Scare everyone into surrendering their rights and civil liberties. Better safe than free.
Only once you are no longer free, you are also no longer safe in more ways than just physically. And taking away your rights and liberties doesn't guarantee your physical safety, either. The only way to stop this is to stop "them" before they go any farther.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Tue, April 7, 2009 - 9:17 AMExactly. One of the problems is that the "revolutions" are always reactionary and typically based on some form of extremism. Today, we have the same extremism prevailing... Libertarianism/Anarchism on one end, and Socialism/Communism on the other end. It's like having a car with a broken alternator, and rather than just changing the alternator, you tear the whole engine apart. Then you end up putting the engine back together, pretty much like it was in the first place (maybe change the distributor cap), and expecting it to run differently. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Tue, April 7, 2009 - 9:48 AMor is one of the reasons revolutions are incomplete is because the people cannot endure the hardships they must endure to see it through? this situation gives opportunity to the previous controls or authority to step in and *save* them from their *hardship*? Short term needs vs long term gain...I see a parallel in my life...I left a marriage and home situation because I was stifled, not growing...but when the growing pains become too much to endure, I retreat to a different but same situation.
The determination must remain to see the idea through, especially when there IS NO LIGHT at the end of the tunnel...it is a difficult thing to apply to masses of people. They lose hope, cannot live with the uncertainty, and fall back into the arms of *safety* that are pro offered, the arms that will again, choke them. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Tue, April 7, 2009 - 5:23 PMThat's definitely part of it... the fact that building an engine can be extremely frustrating. And then you get the fact that alot of different people have different ideas about how the engine should be put together. They may have banded together when they were feeling oppressed, but once it's time to rebuild, the differences come out.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Fri, April 10, 2009 - 8:12 AMExactly. It has to last generations... people in our culture aren't willing to sacrifice that much time, or instill the values in their family, community, tribe - that would be required to carry on a revolution, to be radical in thought and action, etc, etc. because now in developed nations the oppression is not completely intolerable... it's principle, not tangible. Until it becomes a tangible oppression to the masses, rather than those who look deeper and absorb ALL the information available (not just what is fed to them,) then the power of the few will continue to exist and grow. The world is now a very visible stage and it is being used to disseminate information that most people will take years to discover is, relating to earlier posts, horseshit.
This thread makes me think of V for Vendetta.
I'm new btw, just felt compelled to jump in on this thought process :) -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Age of Aquarius?
Sat, April 11, 2009 - 4:50 PMWelcome. And thanks for jumping in.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Mon, April 6, 2009 - 10:50 PM
the New Age referring to the Aquarian Age in reference to the precession of the equinoxes with the tropical zodiac starting in the constellation of Aquarius, it makes sense that the zodiac aquarius constellations figure into the aquarian age.
I wonder if I will figure strongly into it with my Moon conjunct Mars in the actual constellation........my moon connects to 3 stars in Aquarius including the alpha star of Aquarius, Sadalmelik
I thought about the The Children Of the New Earth Conference
Neptune and Chiron will not only stationary retrograde in the tropical sign of Aquarius, but also in the actual constellation of Aquarius
Neptune and Chiron are stationary direct on May 30th,and will conjunct my Mars in 25'54 Aquarius
THE CHILDREN OF THE NEW EARTH CONFERENCE is a 3 day conference starting on May 29th
it is about neurodivergence,Indigo,Crystal stuff
www.bluegaia.info/Home.html
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Fri, April 17, 2009 - 2:23 PMThe last post I made here stated "The Ages being divided by 12 for 360 degrees, each Age would consist of 30 degrees = 2160 years totaling 25920 years."
That is if we equally divide them by 12 - some are longer than others. Pisces is the second longest (next to Virgo), it's influence likewise with it's length I think needs to be considered - especially in reguards to the topic of 'Ages'. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Thu, July 23, 2009 - 3:58 AMAquarius is ruled by Uranus - the planet of technology - and Saturn - the planet of authority and government.
Some of you may not be aware, but amongst some of the best funded projects ongoing by the Pentagon and American military is the use of technology to create newer, better weapons - but NOT for use against 'the enemy', but against American citizens.
Straight out of the landscape of some sci-fi orwellian nightmare are the numerous weapons being readied for use against American civilians as a method of crowd control. We'd be fooling ourselves considerably if we didn't read right between the lines and recognise that these are effectively 'protest' controlling weapons, or even protest eliminating weapons.
The most worrying part of these weapons is that they are designed to inflict SEVERE pain - without leaving a mark. This means they could be deployed with no proof that they were.
We already have the TASER which inflicts massive amounts of electricity and inflicts a great deal of pain and even the most cursory google search or even youtube search will demonstrate how trigger happy police are with this 'non leathal' weapon.
Now we have even scarier things. We have a 'heat ray gun' that can cause the sensation of severe burning - or being on fire - to whoever it is aimed at. This is effectively the torturer's dream. Severe pain - no physical damage so pain can be inflicted repeatedly without leaving any trace.
Several similar weapons are being tested also and you can find out more here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acti...ial_System
www.newscientist.com/article/dn7077
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dire...rgy_weapon
You may also be interested in searching for the number of deaths which have occurred during, or immediately following, the use of the 'non lethal' taser and the indiscriminate use with which police officers deploy them. Originally designed to be used as an effective way to disarming dangerous criminals who have fire arms, it has actually been used on, amongst other things, a small school child in the back because the child was playing truant from school, against an 80 yr old pensioner for 'resisting arrest', against a man who spoke cheekily against an officer and is often redeployed because the victims do not do as they are told immediately following the first blast - mostly because they forget the taser is designed to incapacitiate.
My aim with this post was to dispel the 'happy clappy' notion that the Age of Aquarius is something to be celebrated. The Age of Aquarius is the age of 'conform or deal with the consequences'. It is an Age of increased civilian surveillance, of databases and microchips, or weapons being developed to intimidate and control the masses. It is the Age of Orwellian Nightmares.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Thu, July 23, 2009 - 6:47 AMPaul, my thoughts mirror yours in regards to the weaponry, technology, etc... and with being American I was a bit glad to fly out of the USA although there is much about the USA I still love. They are taking old military bases and transforming them into places to hold many civilians, should the need arise from any type of rebellion against government. If people research thoroughly enough, you will locate writings from whistle blowers who left their job due to the ethics of it all. Electromagnetic fields are still being used for experiments on entire towns. Thus the Age of Aquarius could be good and bad, just like any other sign we enter into. I would rather see the humanitarian side come out, of course.
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Thu, July 23, 2009 - 7:14 AMThis was certainly a cheery thought to wake up to today, Paul. <grin>
As I have said elsewhere, I don't think that we are yet in the Age of Aquarius, which I believe is still quite a ways off, perhaps even several hundred years away, depending upon how you measure it . I perceive these present times as an intermediary, transitional era, which I have called the Age of Horse Shit. I again present this as a possible name for the period between the Age of Pisces and the Age of Aquarius as an accurate term for our times. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Thu, July 23, 2009 - 7:25 AMYes I think we're still approaching the cusp of Aquarius. I don't we're fully in it yet, but I don't think it is several hundred years off. I think it probably within the next hundred hundred years. It's a slow process and it starts with things like this. When we wake up in our pods and these things are everyday and we don't bat an eyelid at them, then we'll be in the age of aquarius. But certainly all those people who look forward to lots of clapping and universal love I think are being naive. Aquarius is not just ruled by Uranus - but also Saturn. I think people can forget that. -
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Re: Age of Aquarius?
Thu, July 23, 2009 - 7:39 AMPerhaps the challenge for the Age of Horse Shit is to "eliminate" the complacency we seem to have about moving toward an Orwellian world in order to set the stage for another way of being. I suppose that is about as optimistic as I can be for the moment. But I do think that it is yet possible for us, as we become more and more aware of what is at stake, to revolt against the tide. We owe that much to ourselves and to future generations who will have to play the cards we deal them.
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Aquarius, to Paul
Thu, July 23, 2009 - 9:19 AMPaul,
You said:
"My aim with this post was to dispel the 'happy clappy' notion that the Age of Aquarius is something to be celebrated. The Age of Aquarius is the age of 'conform or deal with the consequences'. It is an Age of increased civilian surveillance, of databases and microchips, or weapons being developed to intimidate and control the masses. It is the Age of Orwellian Nightmares."
The thing a lot of people don't think about is Aquarius is the energy of Uranus, and Uranus is about the energy of creating social networks, deciding who is "in" and who is "out", setting up fences to "wall out" those we don't want, tearing down the structures that don't fit the way we want our social structure to be, destroying in order to rebuild, rebelling, terrorizing, and ripping apart society as we know it.
About the dark side of Uranus,
Tim -
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Re: Aquarius, to Paul
Fri, July 24, 2009 - 12:55 PMCan't help myself
www.youtube.com/watch
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