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If you're interested in the relationship between astrology and physical appearance check out ASTROFACES.com. It's a database that groups people according to their Sun/Moon/ASC with their mugshots. It's kinda eerie to see so many people who share the same placements with the same bone structure.
I've been using their database to help me guess people's signs more accurately. It's actually a study in progress and they can use as many photos as possible to make it work so PLEASE submit yours if you havent already...
I took this quote from the site:
"Astrofaces is a research study seeking to verify Astrology for modern science with photographs of subjects grouped by the zodiac signs of their Sun, Moon & Ascendant. Do people who share the three most prominent factors in the chart resemble each other? Does the shape of time show in our faces?"
I've been using their database to help me guess people's signs more accurately. It's actually a study in progress and they can use as many photos as possible to make it work so PLEASE submit yours if you havent already...
I took this quote from the site:
"Astrofaces is a research study seeking to verify Astrology for modern science with photographs of subjects grouped by the zodiac signs of their Sun, Moon & Ascendant. Do people who share the three most prominent factors in the chart resemble each other? Does the shape of time show in our faces?"
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Fri, May 2, 2008 - 12:51 AMI'm not a fan of astrofaces - I'd reccomend people watching instead.
Somthing about an energetic essence that is not always conveyed in a photograph - unless the photographer really knows how to capture it. -
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Fri, May 2, 2008 - 9:46 AMI hear what you're saying but solely observing people is not effective enough because you don't exactly know their information - and if you know their sun sign, what good does it do if you don't know their Moon and Ascendant? These things play a huge role in a person's physical appearance and mannerisms so, ultimately, your observation would be lacking... -
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Fri, May 2, 2008 - 11:07 AMI was kind of referring to people who I knew personally....
Regardless though - the effects of astrology on straight up physical appearance tend to be greatly overstated and misunderstood from my observations.
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Unsu...
Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Fri, May 2, 2008 - 11:32 AMThis is a great idea and a great project!!
I would organize it in groups of people with the same Ascendant and same Ascendant Lord sign. For example, everyone with Virgo Rising and Mercury in Sagittarius or everyone with Aries Rising and Mars in Taurus. I think you'd see even more similarities. I couldn't get the website to just show me everyone with the same Rising Sign, which I think would be interesting to see.
Anyways, the project does show some promising results!!
David -
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Fri, May 2, 2008 - 1:38 PMWhen i was a teenager i used to guess people's sun signs with like 80% acccuracy
just walking down the street
and met a man who had done it at a carnival who I never saw get it wrong even once
but I cant do it anymore and I think its because i key into too much now and pick up on other energy fields with people
There are definitely some physical tendencies but there are many of them for each sun sign
I am going to look at that sight and especially look for whether the things I used to observe easily
(especially for the ones that are still easy to guess and have tended to have more obvious physical signifiers for me; for me that's mostly
cancers, pisces, aries, capricorn, taurus, and leo)
anyway i am going to see if the multiple tendencies I noticed are reduced to more specific terms by mixing the moon and ascendant into it
i think that will be an awesome game regardless of the results, thanks for trying> -
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Fri, May 2, 2008 - 1:38 PMi meant thanks for sharing
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance.. Further planets emphasising typical Sun Sign looks, behaviour, &obviously, THE ASCENDANT
Sat, May 10, 2008 - 5:49 PMI appreciate what you're trying to say about recognising people from their sun signs alone. Yet, I believe that your own success in doing this and the man at the carnival's success at it were probably attributed to those people having the Sun sign reinforced by either the moon being in the sign, the actual ascendant, and other personal planets. Or, perhaps if you had correctly assumed someone being a Scorpio, Pisces, Virgo, Aries, Taurus, or Leo, they may have had those signs' rulers emphasised. For example, Pluto on an angle, Neptune angular and making many aspects, Mercury highlighted in some way, a strong Mars, Venus, or Sun, etc. I would not be surprised.
I know a woman who has her Sun and Moon in Scorpio and Mercury. I didn't initially guess that, due to her moon-ruled Cancer ascendant, which overrided those typical textbook traits belonging to Scorpio. You may think that the Scorpio traits would be a dead giveaway but I didn't notice a thing when interacting with her during those early stages. She is what I imagine a Cancer Sun Sign person to look like and act like. Moon face, compassionate eyes, slightly rotund build, worries about everyone else's needs, strongly committed to family, very attached to her own mother, as well as being a devoted mother herself. She also takes great comfort from food (more than the average person, but still nothing wrong with that whatsoever), and openly expresses enjoying an active sex life with her husband (she has those Scorpio planets in the 5th house - surprise!).
As I have grown to know her better, I have seen the Scorpio traits filtering through that dominant ascendant of hers. She is a huge fan of gothic horror (namely vampires, spirits, demons, etc), and she also has very black-and-white views on many subjects. Once she has made her mind up, there is no discussion to be had. That said, she is usually very well informed on those subjects, as well as insightful. No subject in conversation is ever too taboo, which is cool. You know the way some people immediately 'batten down the hatches' when you raise a subject with them? Total dead end. Boring.
Anyway, another luminary (moon), personal planets reinforcing the Sun sign, Sun sign ruler highly emphasised, and THE ASCENDANT play a major role in determining a person's physicality and behaviour. Additionally, family genetics should not be discounted. Regarding the Scorpio woman with the Cancer ascendant I just spoke about.. She looks and acts very much like her own mother. Then again, her mother has a Cancer moon sign, which may be angular. I don't have her birth time to be able to gauge the mother's ascendant or house placements, though.
I only noticed the Scorpio traits filtering through as I got to know her better. For instance, she has
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 4:50 AMWhen I was a teenage college student walking to class, this woman walked abreast me and said "You're a Scorpio". She just kept on walking. From that experience, I became interested in astrology.
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Sat, May 3, 2008 - 10:54 AMWhats an ascendent lord? =/ -
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Unsu...
Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Sat, May 3, 2008 - 11:22 AMThe planet that rules the Ascendant Sign.
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Sat, May 3, 2008 - 11:22 AM" Whats an ascendent lord"
The planet that rules the sign on the Ascendant. Such As: Venus is the lord of Taurus - The Sun is the lord of Leo -
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Unsu...
Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Sat, May 3, 2008 - 1:46 PMSpeaking of ascendant lords can someone post a web site that explains them more in detail (you know house placement, aspects, signs). I'd like to know more about mine but I can't seem to find any web sites that go into detail.
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 11:29 AMDavid Ray,
That's interesting. I am Virgo rising with Mercury in Sag... and I do think I look very "virgo rising" but with a twinge of Sag-rising-ness, so maybe that would explain it. I thought it was because my sun was in Sag...
:)
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Unsu...
Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 4:38 PMI don't think the chart ruler's sign is that important. Even if it is, it's somewhere down the line in a loong list of chart indicators to be checked. Like, say, Mars's sign and aspect, since Mars is the natural ruler of the 1st house.
I think this survey thing is kinda useless, though, because the aspects to the Ac aren't taken into consideration, and those can influence appearance a lot.
And so can the Decanates of the Risings. -
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Sat, May 10, 2008 - 6:00 PMI completely disagree. I have not observed people's Mars to take precedence over their chart ruler. To give just one example now..
Kurt Cobain's Mars was in Scorpio in his 3rd house and trining some of his Pisces planets. He certainly did not look like a typical Scorpio to me. Yes, he had Pluto conjunct his Virgo ascendant from the 12th house, but his Virgo ascendant and highly emphasised Neptune (ruling his Pisces planets, found as part of a water Grand Trine, and also angular) completely dominated any possible Scorpionic physical appearance. He was unassuming in person, quietly spoken, usually understated in dress, modest, and shy. This is without going into the details of his Pluto conjuncting his Virgo ascendant from the 12th house and his Uranus in the 1st house conjuncting the same Virgo ascendant.. But look at any footage of him, and you will probably assume (like many others, believe me), that he embodied Virgo/Piscean qualities in how he projected himself.
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Unsu...
Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Mon, May 5, 2008 - 6:37 PMPretty interesting... I think it can be improved on... Ascendant lord would be a good idea. -
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 11:58 AMI feel like the group of people who I share signs with (Virgo Sun, Scorpio ascendant, Virgo moon) have pretty similar physical characteristics.
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 6:33 PMJasmin,
I went to that website, it was really interesting. They are still getting their database started up but I submitted a photo as well! It was really fun because there was only one other person in my Sun/Asc/Moon combo group and she and I have several similar facial features! Just really groovy to check out!
Thanks for sharing!
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Unsu...
Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 7:26 AMThis is one area of astrology that I think falls flat. I think genetics, environment, diet, health issues etc. have more of an impact on appearance than one's birth chart. It's painting with very broad brush strokes, then trying to find details. It doesn't work.
Depending on what book or tradition you use, the indicators for appearance are given a particular description that often says more about the ethnic and racial background of the astrologer, than about an individual.
Peace, Bo -
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 9:44 AM"It doesn't work"
this sounds like the dogmatic version of "it hasn't worked for me"... leaving more room for uncertainty and not being too damn sure of yourself...
but then, im a linguitic nit-picker...
hahaha -
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 11:36 PMThe scorpio moon tribe was just discussing this. I have to say that I look nothing like what my Sun/Moon or Acs traits are said to look like.
I'm a Scorpio Sun/Moon and a Taurus Asc. Both signs are said to be heavier set.. short stout. I'm tall and willowy thin, long limbs.
I DO have a long slender neck which could be the Tuarus rising since that sign rules the throat and I have very sharp cat green eyes (the famous scorpio eyes) but other then that the descriptions that have been given are totally off.
Perhaps other planets in my chart have something to do with my apperence but I have a Scorpio Stellum with not only my moon and sun but mercury, venus and jupiter in scorp too.
I have a planets in Libra and Sag maybe that has something to do with it? -
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 8:37 AMi see the use in this type of Astro-thinking as a fun way to approach someone...
say someone "sees" the Capricorn in my style o' presentation/physical act (or appearance) then they can act like a Libra and cause some potential creative tension...
i have also used Piscean type compliments with my Girl friend, telling her how pretty her feet are, and she eats it up...
FUN...
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 10:00 AMMel, I think that most likely your Mars in Capricorn has alot to do with it, especially if it makes contact to your Taurus Ascendant.
Also, I don't know where your Ascendant is in Taurus, but I have read that a fixed star around 7º Taurus tends to make them taller. -
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 10:19 AMmel.. u just described me exactly. im taurus sun/aries moon/scorpio rising. im tall and thin.. and my legs and arms r very long... long neck... cat green eyes. LMAO. strange!
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Unsu...
Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 1:24 PMmel, is your ascendant between 10 and 20 degrees taurus? -
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Unsu...
Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 1:26 PMooops, sorry. I meant between 20 and 30 degrees taurus. -
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 11:53 PMMK... Nice! Twins perhaps? lol My eyes are also really large but I can narrow them into little catlike slits when I'm angry or giving someone "that" look.
Mantis thanks for the reply I'm so curious about this! My rising is in 00 degrees Taurus. My Sun 21 degrees Scorp. Moon is 01 degrees Scorp
Does my Mars in Cap have something to do with my looks? Sorry about all these questions but what I've read was so off! -
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Sat, May 10, 2008 - 6:36 PMYour Mars in Capricorn does not rule your Sun sign, moon sign, or your Taurus ascendant, so it should not have a major influence on things like the size of your eyes (perhaps look at your fellow family members as well), or how you narrow them when angry. Loads of people narrow their eyes when they are angry. That would not be sufficient evidence to point at that person (or you) and exclaim, "Oh, they have large eyes and now they're narrowing them due to anger! That must signify them having a Taurus ascendant or Mars in Capricorn!!"
FYI, the late singer Aaliyah (birth time unknown) had her Mars in Capricorn, and narrowing her eyes in anger at something was not an outstanding physical response of hers. Ditto for the singer Natalie Imbruglia (Mars in Capricorn) and innumerable others.. I wouldn't read into something as simplistic as that, unless your Capricorn Mars is angular in addition to being involved in a major configuration (T Square, Grand Cross, Grand Trine, etc). THEN I might take notice.. There is not sound evidence to suggest that an otherwise unpersonalised Mars has a significant influence on physical traits/responses/characteristics/behaviour.. -
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Sat, May 10, 2008 - 6:58 PMI said nothing about the eyes, the Moon is usually responsible for that and sometimes Neptune. Moon in Scorpio would greatly affect her eyes.
But Mars in Capricorn would affect that she is tall and willowy thin, with long limbs. Saturn, the ruler of Capricorn, is also 2º from opposition to her Ascendant, which would also give strength to that.
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Sat, May 10, 2008 - 6:25 PMIf your Mercury is found in your 7th house (opposite your Taurus ascendant), that would make it angular and having a strong bearing on youur physical appearance. Also, your Venus (ruling your Taurus ascendant and your entire chart) may be conjunct this same Mercury. You simply said they were all in Scorpio, so I don't know whether they are conjunct or not, or what the exact house placements are.. But, if any of the assumed details I put forward above apply, they may well contribute to you being willowy in appearance..
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 7:52 AM"Perhaps other planets in my chart have something to do with my apperence. . . "
A conciliatory comment politely stated, allow for dissenters to have a way out.
I'm not so nice.
Physical characteristics are set by genetics at the moment of conception, with minor alterations possible if adverse circumstances arise during the course of the pregnancy. Such as a regularly drunken mother.
To say otherwise is to entertain the proposition of a birth delayed by a few hours can result in the infants eyes changing from blue to brown.
Am sure we'll hear it - a moment of conception chart.
Still won't work, physically DNA trumps everything. -
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 8:18 AMAs scientific method - born of man...constantly evolving - is highly contingent and changes paradigm fairly quickly...I'm sure your trump card will eventually be trumped by a method subjected to a paradigm more suitable for the times we live in then.
Perhaps it will be an Astrological one, which is highly probable, as it has been around not millinia, but aeons.
Presently , I would offer that DNA is just the subconscious manifestation of karma - which some call the physical body - projected via the planets and the signs.
As for astrological interpretation...it is often simplified and subject to the fixation of the one who is doing the interpreting..physical appearance is also constantly changing and subject to...planetary motions. As for long and willowy with thin long limbs: typical scorpio traits. (there is more than one scorpio type). -
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 8:52 AM"As scientific method - born of man...constantly evolving - is highly contingent and changes paradigm fairly quickly"
Now that Science means nothing, lets try two thought experiments
(1) - Births (local population) at the same time in:
Ulanbator, Mongolia
Canton, China,
PakanSeria, Brunei
Rainforest, Borneo (Dyak Tribe)
Kesambirampak, Indonesia
and Exmouth, Australia (two births here, English extraction and Australian Aboriginal)
NOTE: All places listed fall on the same North/South line.
Now picture in your mind what each of these people look like.
(2) A Clone of yourself, which will be a physical copy regardless of the birth time.
Sorry, that's Science, again.
There is, I imagine, a possibility that all observers looking at a pair of clones are seeing only what they believe to be two identical appearing creatures which are, in fact different, but seem to be identical due to the belief they are identical.
"I would offer that DNA is just the subconscious manifestation of karma"
Isn't EVERYTHING a manifestation of Karma with no independent physical existence. Save, of course, that which we create by observation, as the Planets, the stars, and the Universe in total; from whence we receive by feedback to our own Karma, the influences contained in and described by Astrology. -
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Sun, May 25, 2008 - 5:52 AMHahaha, you got me there, I'm afraid... When I first started to get into Astrology, these two examples were the first things I thought about...which is a natural reaction by someone entertaining at that time a highly sceptical frame of mind.
I never said science means nothing - only that it is highly contingent. As for cloning...purely from a speculative point of view: Yes you are right, the clown would look almost exactly like me. Almost...as in time we will see a totally different expression of the energy within (apart from it being utterly unnatural) and also in it's appearance.
This complex of energy (microcosmos) that is defined by the moment of birth - the QUALITY OF TIME present when incarnation takes place - is a unique reflection of the state of the cosmos as we perceive it from earth (warped by precession, etc.).
While the chart contains the full potentiality inherent in one life we call karma, there are allways factors such as the sign and inherent qualities of a country and race one is born in, which obviously only show up in indirectly in a birth-chart.
Why? Most people forget to consider one factor of tremendous importance: The unique energy of the place one is born in: Earth and each and every stretch of land has it's own energy. As Above, so Below... Earth exerts influence over the other planets and constellations, yet above all on the people being born on it or living there...
Still, I am sure apart from the locality issue these people will show very similar features, body constitution and expressions.
But that is just it with Astrology, there is absolutely no way, two people can occupy the same place at the same time...even with twins there are differences which will grow as they will interact with the universe from different places...On the other hand, Astrology too, is still evolving, still...less contingent than present day science, which is more or less under the sway of a very sceptical sway of the sign Virgo.
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Sat, May 10, 2008 - 6:19 PMI don't believe it completely "falls flat". While I agree that genetics, diet, ethnicity, and lifestyle play an undeniable role in determining one's physical appearance, some people still share sign characteristics.. Whoopi Goldberg and Michael J. Fox are completely divergent in physical looks yet they share an Aquarius ascendant. She is black and overweight while he is a slim white man. Look more closely and observe their shared irreverant sense of humour, their not-very-apparent personal warmth, and their physical restlessness, though; those are noted characteristics of an ascendant in Aquarius. Whoopi's Scorpio planets greatly modify it, obviously, and Michael J. Fox's Gemini palanets do the same. However, their *inital approach* to life and how they wish to be seen by others (both denoted by the ascending sign) makes them have much more in common than you would think.
We can't all say that Aries ascendant natives will all have red hair and rosy complexions, when there are remote tribes in Africa probably hosting Aries risers at one point or another, quickly burying that possibility. Yet they will all share a basic forthrightedness in attitude, amongst other Aries personality traits (before you get to know them).
Many sadly dated astrology textbooks imply that all people with Virgo ascendants will have fair hair, complexion, etc. Yet, it is more accurate to state that Virgo ascending people will have an understated manner about them (including how they dress and their way of getting their point across to those they don't know well). Madonna has a Virgo ascendant (with Moon, Mercury, and Pluto conjunct it, I know), yet so does Tiger Woods. Both (despite different skin colour and different background) embody Virgo ascendant traits very noticeably in their own individual ways. I feel she is growing more into her Virgo ascendant characteristics as she ages, while he seems to have operated on more of an even keel thusfar.
The thing with ascendants is to look beyond really obvious modifiers like the person's skin colour and dominant cultural background. If you're sufficiently clued-up on ascendant traits in a contemporary way, you will be able to notice the different ascendant sign characteristics eventually.. -
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Unsu...
Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Sat, May 10, 2008 - 8:35 PMThat's more about mannerisms, outlook, behavior etc. ...but the original thread was specifically about physical appearance, not behavior.
I'm Aquarius sun and ascendant, but I don't look anymore or less like someone else with those placements, or a Libra moon, etc. There's still no empirical study that corroborates any ties between astrology and physical appearance (at least not a well known study). I agree that it's fun to play around with and speculate...but not to be taken seriously.
In any case, it's just my own personal opinion.
Peace, Bo -
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Mon, May 12, 2008 - 2:15 AMThanks everyone for the replies. The signifigance of my eyes was never really a question. I know Scorpio influences my eyes greatly.
My confusion was my body type. When I read according to my sun/moon/asc descriptions were so far of it threw me because personality wise astrology is pretty on the money as far as describing me. I'm "suppose" to be heavy, stout, beaklike nose, heavy brow. That is not even close.
Perhaps this will help to anwser my questions better.
Sun, moon, mercury, venus, and neptune - Scorpio
Mars- Cappie
Saturn - Libra
Uranus and Neptune- Sag
N.N- Cancer
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 2:53 AMI wouldnt rely totally on Astrofaces. They simply list the placings.. as many others on this topic have mentioned there are many other factors in the chart that will have a heavy impact on the physical appearence of a person. Considering aspects.. any planets placed in 1st or 6th houses, Any planets aspecting the ascendant, perhaps the aspects and sign placement of the chart ruler (planetary ruler of the sign that is rising at time of birth) Any planet that is very heavily aspected in the chart even if it wasnt to the ascendant could still manifest in the appearence.. and someone mentioned the decan of the sign that is ascending. I forgot who mentioned the connection with the placing of Mars as it rules the first house that is an interesting take.. but certainly mars could suggest the drive of a person. for example if mars was well aspected in fire or air the person might have a nice tone body due to lots of physical activity. Any planets on the angles also might play a role.. but certainly any planet conjunct the ascendant in the first house will be able to be seen in the person. -
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Sun, May 25, 2008 - 4:05 AMThe rising constellation can not possibly account for all the physical features. I have Canis Minor (Bush), Hydra (Crowley) and Monoceros rising, probably Hydra but very near to CMinor and Unicorn, so do I look like a snake unicorn? Come on, too easy. and what is to say of things that do not rise at east at all at this epoch like Scorpius? lulu.com/astrology
The first thing is to determine the ascendant and position of the sun, precisely what Kepler and the rest failed to do.
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Re: Astrology and Physical Appearance
Tue, May 27, 2008 - 6:47 AMAbsolutely...Last night, I started to think about all the different types of facial
or behavioural patterns that manifest through a certain sign,
This is what I got so far:
ARIES: ram, sheep, wolf, Promeheus
TAURUS: Bull, Rhino, Minotaurus
GEMINI: A variety of birdlike creatures, monkey, racing dog, hare, butterfly, weasel, chameleon
CANCER: Crab, hamster, frog, nymphs, dyads, nereids, deer
LEO: they are all cats, Apollo
VIRGO: early degrees: cat, owlish birds and these creatures: youtube.com/watch
LIBRA: birds of all kinds: especially swan, wolf, fox, flower
SCORPIO: eagle, spider, reptilians: especially snakes, Circe
SAGITTARIUS: horse, elf (look at those eyes), Dionysos, centaur, elephant, Puck
CAPRICORN: Ibex, statues, cavernous skull, unicorn (the idea of the it), crystaline, elephant, impala, giants, Iguana
AQUARIUS: human, dolphins, bears, childlike, aliens, jesters, Odysseus, Gandalf
PISCES: sharks, seal, syrens, whales, dolphins, Neptune